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23 hours ago, emmarose said:

 

Well, a lot of people enjoy those 'filler' pieces, however, even if they do not, by being in those pieces it is how stars rise in the ranks and become great performers.

If you was to cut those from ballets, you would have a big issue on your hands as all of the future principals and stars will have missed out on a big part of their development, or they just won't be there at all.

 


I realise the fillers have traditionally served a role of the training ground soloists.   But that doesn’t mean it’s the only way for soloists to gain experience.  
 

I’d say Daichi Ikarashi would have had to wait many years to get a role like a Mercutio in RB.  (He’s not yet on a full time contract there !!!)  He shone in every way as a guest artist with PoluninInk R&J on Wednesday. 

 

And yes I was being provocative … there’s a place for more than one type of ballet … shorter condensed ones by smaller companies, and longer ones (3 acts with fillers) at bigger companies.  Time will tell what a younger future audience prefers. 

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3 hours ago, MrsBBB said:

In a recent Sunday Times Magazine feature he said that he intends to have it removed, as well as all his other tattoos. 


yes he had said that in numerous interviews now … and has had over 15 removal sessions already (quote from Wimbledon Bookfest video on Vimeo) 

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2 hours ago, LinMM said:

And why not may “younger future audiences”  like both! Why do they have to prefer one or the other!! 
Different Companies could fulfil the different needs of both the dancers and their audiences. 

I've been thinking about this.  Nowadays there is so much competition for younger audiences, and the attention span seems quite short for many.  I thought Kobborg seemed aware of this and purposely aimed at a shorter, sharper ballet with less 'old-fashioned' costumes.  I actually love the longer MacMillan version but then I'm an oldie.

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45 minutes ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

I've been thinking about this.  Nowadays there is so much competition for younger audiences, and the attention span seems quite short for many.  I thought Kobborg seemed aware of this and purposely aimed at a shorter, sharper ballet with less 'old-fashioned' costumes.  I actually love the longer MacMillan version but then I'm an oldie.


Interesting. I suppose I'm quite young (early twenties) and I also adore the longer MacMillan version and its old fashioned, period appropriate costumes (very Renaissance). (Didn't get a chance to see this Royal Albert Hall production, but reading the reviews with great interest). The market/crowd scenes in MacMillan's version really build up character and tension, particularly in the Act 2 run up to the duels between Mercutio/Tybalt and Romeo/Tybalt.

On the other hand I can see why they might potentially aggravate some people who are eagerly awaiting the next part of the plot. I'm aware that a lot of RB school students are used in those market scenes and a lot of it is character dancing, no pointe shoes etc, which some people might not like. It sometimes looks like the company are having great fun and enjoying themselves on stage, but the audience is not connected to it because there's a lack of emotional/storyline pull. I think on first/second viewing it's fine, but if you go multiple times for different casts these scenes can get slightly more tiresome/repetitive.

I think the main appeal for me is Prokofiev's glorious score in at least some of these 'filler' scenes, which make them more than just filler.

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@art_enthusiast

the music is so wonderful .. I did miss the whole score in the Kobborg version.

 

I know it well and so the first viewing in Verona irked me as the score had obviously been cut.  Sergei said in an interview that the team had special permission from the Prokofiev family to do it.   
 

The chopped up score didn’t bother me at all on the second viewing.  

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It’s sometimes funny what sticks in your mind re great scores though! Of course there are the obvious gorgeous bits in R&J score but I often find myself humming completely inconsequential bits from the “market scene” and the “wedding dance”  for example. They just appear from nowhere so obviously imprinted on my brain from so many viewings over the years. It doesn’t always matter if a score is cut though because you can still go out and buy a recording of the whole score if you want to. 
I’d only ever seen  Act 3 of Raymonda but loved the music so much went out and bought a boxed set( age revealing here)  of the complete score and I love it!! 
Am so looking forward to new ENB production of Raymonda. I hope they do use some more of the original score other than Act 3 in it anyway. 

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9 hours ago, FionaE said:

the first viewing in Verona

 

i'm curious to know if the Verona production was that much better than the sub-standard (IMHO) production served up at the RAH? i'm assuming it must have been better in Verona for someone to have considered it worth bringing to London.....

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So to add my two cents. I thought this was a reasonable production, nice to see something different and with one shining star in Alina and some strong performances by the junior male cast as mentioned above. They cast in general seemed a little under rehearsed but I think you have to give them credit for trying to put something like this on, without the backing of a proper company. 

 

For me Alina carried the performance and I came away even sadder than she has departed the ENB. Polunin was indifferent. At the very start he seems incredibly flat, the junior male leads seeming to possess more power and energy (the early choreography may not have helped)however this picked up somewhat , particularly when paired with Alina when I felt there was a lot of emotional intensity in their dancing. There were glimpses of brilliance with Polunin, never bad but in general I felt a sadness over what once was and what might have been - like seeing an ageing Muhammed Ali or Tiger Woods. 

 

Worth the £200 a ticket, perhaps as a one off. I wouldn't be tempted to go again, whereas I will see MacMillan's every time it is on regardless of price. 

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2 hours ago, prs59 said:

 

i'm curious to know if the Verona production was that much better than the sub-standard (IMHO) production served up at the RAH? i'm assuming it must have been better in Verona for someone to have considered it worth bringing to London.....


Thank you for asking … there are pros and cons with both venues that affected the production in different ways at each place.
 

STAGE

In Verona the actual stage is far away from the audience … as there is an enormous orchestra pit between, plus the dancers and set were placed far away from the footlights.  (The team had no opportunity to rehearse there due to the crew removing the opera set from the previous night).  They barely got an hour on the stage once their floor, set and lighting were constructed.  
 

However … what Verona did have was an enormous area for dancing which Sergei filled.  I felt the stage in RAH was way too small for him.  He couldn’t display his superior movement.  No jeté or double tour carries the same impact when it is performed up and down ‘underneath oneself’ as dancer’s say.  It needs space to travel along as well as up. 
 

The small stage at the RAH also cramped the ensemble dances in the ballroom, town and the fight scenes.  
 

I hadn’t known (the RAH box office didn’t know either) that the stage at RAH would be built out into the arena removing some of the rows.  If I’d known, I would have booked seats in the stalls with a straight on view.  Instead I chose seats halfway around the stalls to be closer to the dancers.  I ended up being a lot closer than expected!  And with more of a side-on view than I’d have liked.   Therefore my background moved from the set to the audience behind the dancers looking diagonally across the stage.  That I did not like.  
 

Also I did not like seeing all the coloured tape on the floor for the set changes.   Surely there is better technology these days?
 

MUSIC

The quality of the sound recording at RAH was poor by comparison with Verona where it rang out and reverberated in the gigantic Roman amphitheatre.  Those Romans knew a thing or two about acoustics.  
 

There seemed to be additional creaking and scraping sounds in RAH that sounded like heavy sets being moved, or someone leaving a microphone inside an electronic garage door.  I’ve no idea whether those were meant to be deliberate or not.  I don’t remember them from Verona, so I’m going to guess it was a production error.  The company hired to do this stuff was ‘The Production Office’.  I’m not rating them so far.

 

LIGHTING

Now this was good.  The beautiful coloured lighting in the arch of the set for the brief wedding scene was new.  
 

However … the lighting in this scene went out too quickly and the beautiful marriage lift with Romeo holding Juliet aloft above him was lost. I could make out an outline as the two dancers continued in darkness, like the professionals they are.  Such a shame.  
 

This is a consequence I suppose of only one run and in different venues.  I know that the lighting for PoluninInk ballets SACRE and Rasputin have improved considerably over time.  I’m sure this will too.

 

I believe the lighting effects in RAH were better seen from straight on, I missed some of the dramatic action and lighting that takes place in and out of the arches of the set due to a more side-on view.  But it didn’t matter for me as I’d seen those effects in Verona and brought those memories with me. 

 

COSTUMES

Now these are divine and it was an absolute privilege to be close enough in RAH to see the details of each.  That was not the case in Verona.  No doubt there will be a big reveal of the anonymous designers at some point.  Suffice to say it’s an elite haute couture fashion house who made them in their signature style.  How Sergei negotiated for them to be made … and not pay for them is pure Sergei magic.  The arrangement is that the fashion house who made them continue to own them, and PoluninInk borrows them for each performance.  At an export value of €800,000.  Extraordinary arrangement.

 


IN SUMMARY …
I think the production would be better seen in a proscenium arch construct.  Or choose seats straight on.  That would be my personal preference. 

 

Edited by FionaE
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I suppose the story of Romeo and Juliet is so well known it doesn't need a lot of on-stage exposition.  At least, we had it drummed into us when I was at school but that was a very long time ago.  However if someone didn't know what was happening, I think the most puzzling part would be where Juliet is given the vial of a substance that enables her to appear dead.  One thing I thought the Kobborg choreography did very well was to have, in the background whilst Juliet was having this explained to her, a vision of what would happen appeared lit up in the background.  What an original idea!

I was lucky with my seating and found the lighting one of the best parts of the production.  I didn't think the stage seemed small but now @FionaE has described the Verona set-up I wish there had been more room.

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@KyleChengthe swords are real steel.   
 

There was an extra edge (pun intended) on Wednesday night when the tip on Mercutio’s sword broke off.  Tybalt had to fight Romeo with a broken tip as the spares were not near to the stage and anyway there is no time between Mercutio’s death and Romeo’s revenge.  Another lesson for future shows … spares need to be close by!

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2 hours ago, FionaE said:


Thank you for asking … there are pros and cons with both venues that affected the production in different ways at each place.
 

STAGE

In Verona the actual stage is far away from the audience … as there is an enormous orchestra pit between, plus the dancers and set were placed far away from the footlights.  (The team had no opportunity to rehearse there due to the crew removing the opera set from the previous night).  They barely got an hour on the stage once their floor, set and lighting were constructed.  
 

However … what Verona did have was an enormous area for dancing which Sergei filled.  I felt the stage in RAH was way too small for him.  He couldn’t display his superior movement.  No jeté or double tour carries the same impact when it is performed up and down ‘underneath oneself’ as dancer’s say.  It needs space to travel along as well as up. 
 

The small stage at the RAH also cramped the ensemble dances in the ballroom, town and the fight scenes.  
 

I hadn’t known (the RAH box office didn’t know either) that the stage at RAH would be built out into the arena removing some of the rows.  If I’d known, I would have booked seats in the stalls with a straight on view.  Instead I chose seats halfway around the stalls to be closer to the dancers.  I ended up being a lot closer than expected!  And with more of a side-on view than I’d have liked.   Therefore my background moved from the set to the audience behind the dancers looking diagonally across the stage.  That I did not like.  
 

Also I did not like seeing all the coloured tape on the floor for the set changes.   Surely there is better technology these days?
 

MUSIC

The quality of the sound recording at RAH was poor by comparison with Verona where it rang out and reverberated in the gigantic Roman amphitheatre.  Those Romans knew a thing or two about acoustics.  
 

There seemed to be additional creaking and scraping sounds in RAH that sounded like heavy sets being moved, or someone leaving a microphone inside an electronic garage door.  I’ve no idea whether those were meant to be deliberate or not.  I don’t remember them from Verona, so I’m going to guess it was a production error.  The company hired to do this stuff was ‘The Production Office’.  I’m not rating them so far.

 

LIGHTING

Now this was good.  The beautiful coloured lighting in the arch of the set for the brief wedding scene was new.  
 

However … the lighting in this scene went out too quickly and the beautiful marriage lift with Romeo holding Juliet aloft above him was lost. I could make out an outline as the two dancers continued in darkness, like the professionals they are.  Such a shame.  
 

This is a consequence I suppose of only one run and in different venues.  I know that the lighting for PoluninInk ballets SACRE and Rasputin have improved considerably over time.  I’m sure this will too.

 

I believe the lighting effects in RAH were better seen from straight on, I missed some of the dramatic action and lighting that takes place in and out of the arches of the set due to a more side-on view.  But it didn’t matter for me as I’d seen those effects in Verona and brought those memories with me. 

 

COSTUMES

Now these are divine and it was an absolute privilege to be close enough in RAH to see the details of each.  That was not the case in Verona.  No doubt there will be a big reveal of the anonymous designers at some point.  Suffice to say it’s an elite haute couture fashion house who made them in their signature style.  How Sergei negotiated for them to be made … and not pay for them is pure Sergei magic.  The arrangement is that the fashion house who made them continue to own them, and PoluninInk borrows them for each performance.  At an export value of €800,000.  Extraordinary arrangement.

 


IN SUMMARY …
I think the production would be better seen in a proscenium arch construct.  Or choose seats straight on.  That would be my personal preference. 

 


thank you for your considered reply. much of what you write supports the thoughts that all was not as well as it could have been on the night. I feel that if the production had run for more than one night, there would have been, post-performance, copious notes particularly, on the technical side, and an early rehearsal called for the following morning to iron out the glitches wherever possible. 

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2 hours ago, FionaE said:

@maryrosesatonapinyes the vision scene is a great idea.   To tell the story visually.
 

Do I remember correctly that Nureyev has one in his R&J production?

Yes...what SHOULD happen is acted out behind a gauze curtain at the back of the stage.  It shows Romeo coming into the tomb, Juliet waking up, and both of them leaving together.  Later on, this version also shows the messenger with the letter to Romeo getting robbed and killed on the road, which explains why Romeo didn't know what was happening when he heard that Juliet was dead.

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On 02/12/2021 at 18:12, Beryl H said:

I like the sound of a clever, shorter R and J, scenery doesn't look very packable though.


The set comes apart in blocks and fills one truck.  
 

I saw it here and in Verona.  It’s driven over from Serbia where it’s stored. Sergei has friends in the film business there due to his involvement in The White Crow and other movies which were filmed in Serbia.

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I had a thought about the blackouts between scenes.   Obviously both venues don’t have curtains or wings, so that’s the only option.  
 

In Verona .. the wings are miles away from the stage which explains long blackouts. 
 

I have to say I personally didn’t notice long blackouts in the RAH.  (I’m not sure who mentioned it earlier in this thread).  
 

Another advantage of Verona is the uniformity of the backdrop (stone amphitheatre) and the way it can be used to create and reflect atmospheric lighting patterns and shapes.   Obviously the RAH backdrop is more busy with the multi-coloured organ and choir areas.  

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11 hours ago, FionaE said:

 oh.... I am sorry to learn you found Cojocaru so flat and unemotional. She looked to me in great form in Hamburg, artistically and technically, but for sure it's just a matter of taste: I prefer more subtle interperation to the overacting of other dancers 🙂

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2 hours ago, annamicro said:

 oh.... I am sorry to learn you found Cojocaru so flat and unemotional. She looked to me in great form in Hamburg, artistically and technically, but for sure it's just a matter of taste: I prefer more subtle interperation to the overacting of other dancers 🙂


Not sure who you are replying to?   I didn’t find her flat at all.  Quite the opposite.  

 

She was super.  She carried the ballet … as Juliet must .. it is her journey and she decides their fate, even if it does go wrong.  

 

My friends who have never seen either Sergei or Alina couldn’t believe she was 40 and has 2 children, the second born only one year ago.  
 

She was brilliantly childlike in the first introductory solo, intrigued by Romeo and perplexed by parents pushing her to Paris in the ball.  Terrified of but defiant to her father.  Lovely trio with her friends.  And then she really gets going …. !

 

The flirtation and growing first love flitting in and out of the set arches and hiding Romeo from friends and family.   Delicious.  Then the balcony pdd. These two are so harmonious together … utter joy.  What a partnership. Flowing into the wedding scene.. where their eyes are glued to each other.  
 

The drama of anger and despair of the next pdd after seeing Romeo kill Tybalt  is fabulous.  Johan deserves more credit than he is getting from the critics.   
 

such clear story telling follows of her anguish at the awful situation she finds herself in.  
 

and then the finale when she wakes up in the tomb to find Romeo dead.  It was so emotional.  She lifts his dead body onto the stone bed (how?) and wraps his arms around herself lying on top of him as she dies.  Both erotic and heart rending

 

it was a tour de force by Alina !!!!


Ps.  It occurs to me now that Juliet/Alina lifting Sergei/Romeo onto the tomb bed is a sort of one upmanship to all those versions where it’s Romeo carrying the dead Juliet about.  
 

Sergei does that too in this version.  
 

This role equalising move also underlines Juliet’s strength of character.  More brilliance from Johan that not all critics appreciate yet.  They need another viewing! 

Edited by FionaE
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1 hour ago, FionaE said:

@prs59 regarding sound quality… I’ve now been told it was really good from the Rausing Circle.  Vagaries of the RAH


all these things could, and ought to,  have been considered and addressed before the ‘curtain’ went up. had they been the extortionate ticket prices might have been justified.  however, they weren’t which, to me, suggests disinterest in the audience experience. my ticket cost £164.75. a premium ticket price which is only justifiable if a premium product is delivered. sadly this wasn’t the case on Wednesday evening and I left feeling that I had been ripped off.

I suspect I wasn’t the only person who felt as such as there was no buzz or excitement as the audience around me left.  instead people filed out quietly and dispersed quickly into the night. 

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2 hours ago, FionaE said:

@prs59 regarding sound quality… I’ve now been told it was really good from the Rausing Circle.  Vagaries of the RAH

I think the RAH acoustics are terrible, in spite of its being home to the Proms.  The only time I have ever seen the Buena Vista Social Club live the experience was ruined for me by the echoey-ness and distortion in spite of their brilliant musicianship.  Since then I've avoided it whenever possible.

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Let's make clear a point. I've NOT seen the show at RAH, so my opinion are from the Verona one and, more in general, from other shows I've seen.

You wrote "Finally (was starting to not believe myself) some reviews that concur with what I and others experienced …".

Polunin is not the dancer he was a few year ago, anyway what remains of the past glory makes him a still a remarkable one, at least to me. Nevertheless I have a problem with Polunin's attempt to act: even if probably his fan club could find an archive paper saying the opposite, in my memory he has never been regarded a great dance actor (better not consider his movie actor career...), but a decent one absolutely yes. In my opinion, what was making him really outstanding when I was flying to London to see him dancing with the Royal Ballet was the projected feeling of a wild energy constrained in the limits of an effortlessly explosive but immaculately polished classical dancing technique, and a naturally elegant, spontaneously charismatic stage presence. When the precision of the dancing faded away, the wild was left fee to run and he started acting "with his teeth" (short for "grinding his teeth"). I don't see a real artistic maturation in his way to be on stage.

In a way the review of The Express support this impression, praising - in short- his overacting and considering it a way to fill the space. Something that is not in my taste.

So I was not surprised to read that in the reviewer opinion Cojocaru "while she dances flawlessly, she doesn't sell any of the emotion out to the crowd with her body or face." It's just that clearly we look for something different in a performance and appreciate the exact opposite in a performer.

I understand that, when finally reading what he/she was hoping to read, everyone of us can have an unstoppable orgasm, but the review, as expression of the opinion and taste of the author, has to be bought or not in its entirety, not cherry picking just what one is craving to read.

Regarding Graham Watts review, when on Twitter Matthew Bourne disagreed about his preventive warning that "we should bear in mind that this is not a company that trains together but a scratch group of dancers that has come together for one performance- I cannot underestimate the size of that task", replying "Why should that be taken in account by paying audience?" (I am afraid that I agree with Bourne, saying also that Verona cast was up to the scope IMO, I don't know about the RAH one), the answer by Watts "I suspect that the majority of those at tomorrow's show will go away very happy since they are fans!" could be considered offensive, not being so sadly true (Watts is a gentleman and for sure he was not willing to insult anybody: maybe he was just very honest). But the artistry of Kobborg, Cojocaru and Polunin himself deserve better. (Conversation available on Twitter)

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2 hours ago, prs59 said:


all these things could, and ought to,  have been considered and addressed before the ‘curtain’ went up. had they been the extortionate ticket prices might have been justified.  however, they weren’t which, to me, suggests disinterest in the audience experience. my ticket cost £164.75. a premium ticket price which is only justifiable if a premium product is delivered. sadly this wasn’t the case on Wednesday evening and I left feeling that I had been ripped off.

I suspect I wasn’t the only person who felt as such as there was no buzz or excitement as the audience around me left.  instead people filed out quietly and dispersed quickly into the night. 


There are plenty of excited people reporting their experiences on social media and also at the stage door.  
 

As I said earlier … Sergei’s a marmite experience .. you either love what he does completely … or not.  Some people do change their views too.  
 

I can recommend looking at the photographs.  

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21 hours ago, Sim said:

Yes...what SHOULD happen is acted out behind a gauze curtain at the back of the stage.  It shows Romeo coming into the tomb, Juliet waking up, and both of them leaving together.  Later on, this version also shows the messenger with the letter to Romeo getting robbed and killed on the road, which explains why Romeo didn't know what was happening when he heard that Juliet was dead.

 

Also the Neumeier version has this kind of vision. Cojocaru danced it several times, I don't remember if Kobborg danced that Romeo, but for sure it was in Royal Danish repertoire when he was there.

 

Edited by annamicro
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2 hours ago, prs59 said:


all these things could, and ought to,  have been considered and addressed before the ‘curtain’ went up. had they been the extortionate ticket prices might have been justified.  however, they weren’t which, to me, suggests disinterest in the audience experience. my ticket cost £164.75. a premium ticket price which is only justifiable if a premium product is delivered. sadly this wasn’t the case on Wednesday evening and I left feeling that I had been ripped off.

I suspect I wasn’t the only person who felt as such as there was no buzz or excitement as the audience around me left.  instead people filed out quietly and dispersed quickly into the night. 

 

I think the ticket price is a point. I don't know which show could really be worth those prices, maybe a giant production with a live orchestra, real elephants on stage (not that they are that common in Northen Italy, exept when Hannibal crossed the Alps in 218 B.C.) and a channel to the Serpentine to have a water to simulate the Adige river.

I can understad that, if you are not one of the "fans" Graham Watts is referring to, you can feel short changed, but I would reccomend to forget for a moment the cost and focus of what of good was in the production.

I wrote after Verona that I'd have preferred to see it in a theatre, a better place for an intimate tragedy. Below the link to my old comment if you are interested.

And, well, if you are curious about that (I would be): as much as I love Kobborg and Cojocaru and I enjoyed the show in Verona and I think it has many merits, I didn't but a ticket for the RAH because it was too expensive IMO. And I hate the venue. But Polunin (according members of the cast) absolutely wanted that place, at any cost.

 

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@annamicro as you haven’t seen Polunin dance much you shouldn’t comment on his technique now.  I was at RAH and also at other performances in the last 6 months.  He is at a super level at the moment.  
 

I was also at classical ballet performances not so long ago of Spartacus and Coppélia in Munich in 2019.  Those were pretty special  … even if not at HIS best level.  The point is they were still better than most.
 

He is dancing beautifully at the moment in the free unconstrained way that he prefers.  
 

Could he dance a Paquita or Nutcracker with the same precision that he could before … maybe not.  But if he wanted to, it would not take long to regain that level.  (And here I am paraphrasing an interview with Igor Zelensky).  
 

The expectations to see his “previously godlike technique” (I quote one of the reviews this week) may have overblown in people’s minds what he could do.  Anyway there are plenty of past videos online to enjoy … I doubt very much he’s going to perform any of those technical classical ballets again.  He’s on a different path now.  



As for the acting comments … 

 

Let’s ask Tamara Rojo, Svetlana Zakharova, Natalia Osipova, Diana Vishneva and Nina Ananiashvili why they choose to perform dramatic ballets with him.  Nina and Tamara specifically choosing him for their farewell performances in M&A.

 

And then there is Alina herself, choosing Sergei to partner her in M&A in Japan over Friedemann Vogel who was also participating in her show there.

 

Or we could ask Natalia Makarova why she chose him for her Bayadere which she staged at RB, Russia, and Munich with him in the title role.  

 

If his acting doesn’t reach you I’m sorry for you … these luminaries of ballet are my guide.  

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