Newbie opera advice please

[Timmie]

I’m quite new to opera, so far I’ve seen: Tosca (loved it, made me cry), Don Giovanni (very busy and entertaining), L'elisir d'amore (lovely) and The Magic Flute (nice singing, story slight strange, I’m still not quite sure what was going on). I’m booked for La Traviata (favourite opera so far, but not yet seen live) and Rigoletto.

 

Of the others coming up at ROH what’s a newbie going to like? Macbeth or Nabucco? I guess The Marriage of Figaro is a must see? I’ve got a fairly short attention span so nothing too heavy 😄. And I’ll be booking another Tosca. Angela Gheorghiu is one of the few opera singers I’ve heard of 😁, so I guess there’ll be heavy demand for her performances?

 

I appreciate any guidance.

[Geoff]

1 hour ago, Timmie said:

Of the others coming up at ROH what’s a newbie going to like? Macbeth or Nabucco? I guess The Marriage of Figaro is a must see? I’ve got a fairly short attention span so nothing too heavy 😄. And I’ll be booking another Tosca. Angela Gheorghiu is one of the few opera singers I’ve heard of 😁, so I guess there’ll be heavy demand for her performances?

 

I appreciate any guidance.

 
Ooh Timmie, the cognoscenti *love* these sort of quizzes. Hope you get loads of interesting replies. Let me start things off with a few basic comments, which no doubt everyone will disagree with. 

 

I am very partial to Macbeth, and will be going at least twice. It’s rip-roaring stuff, pretty sensational music when done right, and it doesn’t last too long (the previous ROH production was super-speedy, this one though takes itself more seriously - as does the singer giving us his Macbeth - which may slow things down a bit). Earlier Verdi than the ones you’ve seen so you’ll find it straightforward (it’s the same plot, btw, not always a given). A definite booking, I would say, unlike Nabucco (which has some wonderful things in it but can drag).

 

Figaro? Some say this is the greatest opera of them all. It is perfect. Downside is that on an off night you can feel, by the time you get to the interval, that you have seen at least a whole opera already but now you have to do it all again. Then again you have already enjoyed Don Giovanni, which has the same potential problem.
 

This Figaro cast is youngish and unknownish, which might be terrific (given that the drama is about a bunch of young people who fancy each other like crazy) or it might be a bit of a duff evening. And who knows how Pappano will conduct it (the traditional sneer about his conducting is that he does everything like Puccini, which would be fatal for Figaro). 
 

Angela Gheorghiu will be one to tell the grandchildren about. On a good night she can still pull out all the stops (when she is not distracted by her cleavage or the prompter). Go and have a great old time at the opera, in some ways she is perfect casting for Tosca.
 

All IMHO only, of course.

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Geoff

[Timmie]

Thanks Geoff, brilliant 👍. I spluttered over my phone screen “when she is not distracted by her cleavage” 😂.

I’ll have a look a bit more into Macbeth, probably give Figaro a miss, or do a last minute booking, I enjoy opera but really struggle with the length sometimes, I don’t think I’ve managed a whole Figaro recording in one sitting yet.

 

I’ll definitely try and book an Angela Gheorghiu Tosca then and maybe another Tosca this year as well.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Timmie

[JohnS]

You could try the free live stream of Jenufa albeit it’s not light (wounding and infanticide). But a terrific score and a wonderful cast - Ashmik Gregorian and Karita Matilla fabulous. Astonishing that despite the themes I think there’s sympathy for all the characters. The production I find over the top at times - the bloodied child walking across the stage, the foetal thumb sucking.  Also I found the sound/vision out of synch in Act 1 but Acts 2 and 3 were fine. You may find yourself gripped and willing to consider other operas or it may confirm your preference for more familiar operas.

 

I quite agree Geoff’s Macbeth recommendation!

[Timmie]

I nearly went to Jenufa, but decided it sounded too real and intense (so not for me). I do plan to watch the stream once I can work out how to get it on my big telly 😄. (Something to work out with my extra hour this morning).

[Geoff]

36 minutes ago, Timmie said:

 probably give Figaro a miss,

Don’t get me wrong Timmie, Figaro is a masterpiece, one of the greatest operas, maybe the greatest. So please don’t be put off by my flip remarks.
 

But the reality, given the nature of the work, is that it is often not shown to best advantage in houses the size of Covent Garden, the ones who showcase the finest voices. So much depends not only on supreme musicianship but on strongly characterised, detailed and true performances, which can be hard to see from the back of the amphi. The giant barns - in London, Paris, Vienna, New York etc - are far larger than the theatre Mozart premiered his work in, the old Burgtheater next to the Hofburg in Vienna.
 

So it is perhaps unsurprising that the most exciting Figaro I ever saw was in the Schlosstheater at Schönbrunn palace in Vienna, perhaps a more comparable size, with a cast of advanced students/young professionals. Just so sexy and a real insight into the many different kinds of happiness and heartbreak explored in this most wonderful of scores and most poignant of comedies.

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Geoff

[Timmie]

No, I’m not put off, I probably will book a last minute one next year. Just trying to prioritise what operas are going in my basket on Tuesday (alongside the Swan Lakes 😄).

 

It looks like Figaro comes to my local theatre (Milton Keynes) sometimes so I might hang on for one of those if a smaller venue helps.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Timmie

[Lizbie1]

My main problem with most Figaro - and most Mozart - stagings is that "you can't get the staff" - whereas back in the day you might have seen Freni and Te Kanawa at their peak singing it, it's now left in most singers' rear view mirror the moment they've made a name for themselves. (Though you still get big name baritones, mostly because there are fewer juicy parts available to them.)

[alison]

On 31/10/2021 at 08:34, Geoff said:

But the reality, given the nature of the work, is that it is often not shown to best advantage in houses the size of Covent Garden, the ones who showcase the finest voices. So much depends not only on supreme musicianship but on strongly characterised, detailed and true performances, which can be hard to see from the back of the amphi. The giant barns - in London, Paris, Vienna, New York etc - are far larger than the theatre Mozart premiered his work in, the old Burgtheater next to the Hofburg in Vienna.
 

So it is perhaps unsurprising that the most exciting Figaro I ever saw was in the Schlosstheater at Schönbrunn palace in Vienna, perhaps a more comparable size, with a cast of advanced students/young professionals. Just so sexy and a real insight into the many different kinds of happiness and heartbreak explored in this most wonderful of scores and most poignant of comedies.

 

 

I saw the RO's production (not sure if it's the current production) on TV some years ago and enjoyed it so much that I booked a ticket.  Even standing in the Stalls Circle, I was bored stiff!  So I guess casts matter, too.

[Lizbie1]

It's a nice production I think, but there's no getting away from its length - one or two plot twists too many I always think!

[Dawnstar]

3 hours ago, alison said:

I saw the RO's production (not sure if it's the current production) on TV some years ago and enjoyed it so much that I booked a ticket.  Even standing in the Stalls Circle, I was bored stiff!  So I guess casts matter, too.

 

I've seen the ROH's Nozze production with 5 different casts over the years and, while I've always liked the production overall, my reaction has varied from promptly booking another ticket to see it again a week later to adding a couple of singers to my avoid-in-future list, so I definitely agree with you. I'm not intending to book this time round because when it takes as far down the cast as Cherubino to find a singer I've even heard of then it's not an inducement to me to go.

[Geoff]

Timmie, a bit late I realise I should probably have pointed out that the second cast of Nabucco (which maybe I would otherwise steer you away from) includes the amazing Anna Netrebko, possibly the most famous opera singer working at the moment.

 

Opinions about her voice are divided. People who know her performances from recordings/live transmissions can be critical in a way that fewer people who hear her live are. So to my mind she is always worth trying to get to hear in person.

 

Be warned: getting a ticket can sometimes be quite an issue but you won't regret the experience.

[Scheherezade]

I’d agree with that, Geoff, particularly as Timmie wants to experience the big names, but there are, of course, those who prefer the alternative Abigaille of Liudmyla Monastyrska. 

[Timmie]

Thanks for the updates 👍. So far I have a Tosca with Angela Gheorghiu and I'm keeping a close watch on the sales of the others, especially, now, Anna Netrebko. I'd love to see Anna Netrebko but I'm not sure that I'd enjoy Nabucco, I think I'll check out some of the cheap seats this weekend when I'm at La Traviata.

[Lizbie1]

1 hour ago, Timmie said:

I think I'll check out some of the cheap seats this weekend when I'm at La Traviata.

 

If you're prepared to compromise on view and comfort, the sound in the upper slips is second to none IMO (go for front row and as far from the stage as possible). Bear in mind that as far as the view is concerned you're likely to be somewhat at the mercy of your neighbours (and vice versa). I wouldn't recommend these seats for vertigo sufferers, but most people adjust pretty quickly once the initial shock of the apparent sheer drop and flimsy looking barrier fades.

 

For the same price, a similar quality view and a more comfortable seat, there's the lower slips seats near the stage: the sound is different though - less well mixed, is how I'd describe it, and less flattering to the singers, but I tend to prefer it for an unvarnished impression of their singing.

[Timmie]

31 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

If you're prepared to compromise on view and comfort

 

I'm not... 😄. I really don't like being sideways on to the stage. What do you think of the high amphi seats towards the walls, say the extreme ends of row R? For ballet I wouldn't like it there but for opera it may be OK?

[Lizbie1]

If you're OK with being that far back they're pretty good and I've not had trouble hearing things properly.

 

One tip: S-71, if you can get it, has a nice empty space next to it for stowing your bags!

[Timmie]

2 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

One tip: S-71, if you can get it, has a nice empty space next to it for stowing your bags!

 

Thanks, I like seats with extra benefits 😄.

[alison]

So do the ends of row H

[art_enthusiast]

Slightly unrelated (but not sure if there is a thread for this yet) - does anyone think the Marriage of Figaro performance next week on the 13th Jan, at 11.30am, might be cancelled? Because I wanted to book for it, but I see there are many empty seats so not sure if it's going ahead?

[Geoff]

On 08/01/2022 at 17:46, art_enthusiast said:

Slightly unrelated (but not sure if there is a thread for this yet) - does anyone think the Marriage of Figaro performance next week on the 13th Jan, at 11.30am, might be cancelled? Because I wanted to book for it, but I see there are many empty seats so not sure if it's going ahead?

 

Never heard of ROH cancelling a poorly selling show. The Covid risk is of course unpredictable, however. I'm not up to date with their current rules on refunds but perhaps it would be worth calling the box office to discuss options. The relatively unknown, and relatively young, case, presumably approved by Pappano, is a draw.

[art_enthusiast]

4 hours ago, Geoff said:

 

Never heard of ROH cancelling a poorly selling show. The Covid risk is of course unpredictable, however. I'm not up to date with their current rules on refunds but perhaps it would be worth calling the box office to discuss options. The relatively unknown, and relatively young, case, presumably approved by Pappano, is a draw.

Indeed - I know that if a performance gets cancelled, tickets are refunded/become ticket credit. I was just wondering if it's worth booking for the 13th matinée, if it might be cancelled. I can see that they've sold well in evening performances, it's only the matinée that hasn't.

Edited January 10, 2022 by art_enthusiast

[art_enthusiast]

Just an update - I attended the Marriage of Figaro and it was amazing, an absolutely stunning performance - very hilarious at times! Particularly enjoyed Riccardo Fassi, Federica Lombardi, Germán E. Alcántara and Hanna Hipp. But the whole cast was incredible.

[Scheherezade]

And like Geoff in reverse, I posted my reply on the other thread.

[CCL]

I came looking for a thread like this a couple of weeks ago and I found it very interesting and helpful.  I’ve seen Carmen and La Boheme a couple of times each in the past, but have never pursued the idea of getting into opera any further and had never been to the opera at ROH until last night. After reading this thread, I booked for the Angel Blue cast in La Traviata. I ensured that I listened to some different recordings (Spotify makes this so easy) and that whetted my appetite so that I was ‘ready’ for last night. I know that there are many very experienced opera goers on this forum who have probably seen many Traviatas, but oh my goodness, I really loved it all - the singing, the staging, the music, the audience response- I was on a total high when I got home and couldn’t sleep for ages because I was replaying the whole thing in my mind! I thought Angel Blue was gorgeous as Violetta, she took me with her the whole way through. I was grinning with delight during ‘Sempre Libera’, shaking with sobs when she soared in ‘Que fai?…nulla’ and in pieces for ‘Addio del Passato’. Popov as Alfredo was charming and earnest and Stoyanov as Germont sounded absolutely wonderful in the ‘Dite alla Giovina’ duet, and got rousing applause for ‘Di Provenza il Mar’, quite rightly. I also loved the party scene in Act 2, scene 2 - very dramatic and compelling.  One thing that surprised me was how unlike the curtain calls were to the ballet - principals only, no flowers. …? It was a wonderful coincidence that the new season announcement came out yesterday, as I plan to see lots more opera. I definitely want to see Tosca, Turandot and the Magic Flute, for starters. I watched the Insight Masterclass with Pretty Yende, which I found fascinating, and it piqued my interest in Tannhauser - ‘Oh du, mein holder Abendstern’ is certainly beautiful but perhaps attempting Wagner is running before I can walk! Any thoughts?

[alison]

If you want to attempt Wagner, there's always Lohengrin next month.  I was blown away by it in the previous production, but don't know what the current one's like.

[Lizbie1]

1 hour ago, CCL said:

and it piqued my interest in Tannhauser - ‘Oh du, mein holder Abendstern’ is certainly beautiful but perhaps attempting Wagner is running before I can walk! Any thoughts?

 

IMO Tannhauser is a really good place to start with Wagner - and I don't think I'll ever not be thrilled by the overture. It's also Very Good News that Davidsen will be singing in it at ROH next season.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Lizbie1

[CCL]

15 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

IMO Tannhauser is a really good place to start with Wagner - and I don't think I'll ever not be thrilled by the overture. It's also Very Good News that Davidsen will be singing in it at ROH next season.

Thanks Lizbie. I’ve been listening to the overture over the past 24 hours and it really is gorgeous. I noticed Lise Davidson’s name in the lineup and that was a definite plus point!

[Dawnstar]

2 hours ago, CCL said:

One thing that surprised me was how unlike the curtain calls were to the ballet - principals only, no flowers. …?

 

In terms of who takes part in the curtain calls, that's due to the last act of Traviata not featuring the chorus (apart from a brief bit of offstage singing), in the same way that the curtain calls for R&J don't include the corps de ballet because they don't appear in that last act. If you go to an opera where the chorus is on stage until the end then they should be there for the curtain calls too.

[TSR101]

3 hours ago, alison said:

If you want to attempt Wagner, there's always Lohengrin next month.  I was blown away by it in the previous production, but don't know what the current one's like.

 

I love Lohengrin but Lohengrin is long, very long, its very dark (including the words) and musically peaks with the prelude to act 1 (imo). I think I'd suggest jumping into opera elsewhere first before moving to this so it doesn't put someone off!

[CCL]

Thanks Dawnstar! The lack of flowers surprised me too - and the relative brevity of the curtain calls. I wanted to cheer the cast for longer!

[Dawnstar]

Traviata does seem to have particularly brief curtain calls by ROH standards. I can remember thinking that when I saw the production 2 years ago, the only performance that cast managed before covid closed the house. I've never really thought about the lack of flowers at opera curtain calls, probably because I did it the other way round to you: saw opera for 15 seasons at the ROH before trying ballet so for me a lack of flowers was normal. I don't know whether it's because opera fans don't give flowers in the way ballet fans do or if it's ROH policy that flowers aren't usually presented on stage for operas. Does anyone know?

 

They do have flower showers for special occasions in the same way the RB does. I saw one when I happened to book for the Fille du Regiment performance in 2014 that fell on Dame Kiri Te Kanewa's 70th birthday. It was just after she'd appeared in Downton Abbey so she also got Jim Carter bringing a birthday cake onstage!

[Timmie]

20 hours ago, CCL said:

I thought Angel Blue was gorgeous as Violetta, she took me with her the whole way through

 

Totally agree, I saw Angel Blue on the 4^th April and it was a marvellous performance. Stoyanov as Germont did get a lot of applause and cheers!