Training outside vocational school

[Hawthorn]

Hi. My child is currently in a vocational school, but I’m feeling uncomfortable about it for various reasons. Is there already a thread on here to connect with parents who’ve chosen to take a different route? 

[Jan McNulty]

Would this be upper or lower school Hawthorn?

[NotadanceMa]

Following with interest for similar reasons and for LS.

We are in the south East and have and can travel, we would have chosen CAT Ballet in ?Manchester over vocational but it was just too far to travel. It looks amazing.

ENB opening up their associate program to a lower age is fantastic as well.

My child gave up their associate program place, but they would have left it anyone as it wasn’t as good as anticipated.

The one place we are keeping an eye on is London Russian Ballet School, there are some rumblings they may open their doors to pre and vocational training again. Just rumblings though atm.

[Pas de Quatre]

If you are able to travel to London, have a look at Masters of Ballet Academy.  They provide Vocational style training in the out of school hours.  A fine school with a good track record of sending pupils on to top notch Vocational training all over Europe and Russia.

[amos73]

Yep, my DD left vocational school and trained non vocationally at Masters of Ballet Academy for 18 months, she got multiple offers for top upper schools here and abroad and started her upper school training last month. DM me if you want more information.

[glowlight]

Hi @Hawthorn - assuming your child is aged 11 to 16 - here is a fairly recent thread on the subject:

 

If they are over 16, it's a slightly different picture.  Here is a slightly older thread:

 

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by glowlight
To add post 16 link

[Hawthorn]

17 hours ago, Jan McNulty said:

Would this be upper or lower school Hawthorn?

He’s just in his first term of lower school. 

[Legseleven]

The only classical ballet CAT scheme is at Northern Ballet, Leeds if that is a possibility?

I believe ?Nicola Moriarty in the south-east may have started a scheme for vocational students who wanted to stay at home but to train at a vocational level. I can’t find any posts but I believe it may have been mentioned on the forum? My apologies if I have invented it! 
 

I believe Natalia Kremen in London may also offer a vocational level scheme.

[Dancing unicorn]

What about Ballet Boost!!!

[Legseleven]

Nicola Tarry classical ballet training in Kent - on social media - offers a training programme for elite students who don’t attend vocational school. 

[Lifeafterballet]

10 hours ago, Hawthorn said:

He’s just in his first term of lower school. 

My son didn’t start ballet til he was 12 and trained locally and with associate programs until he went to vocational school at 17. He is now a professional ballet dancer. I feel that personally, boys especially, don’t need to go away for lower school. Our daughter went away at 11 and our experience of that is on other threads 😢 There are lots of positive opportunities for children to train whilst living at home x

[NotadanceMa]

50 minutes ago, cotes du rhone ! said:

My son didn’t start ballet til he was 12 and trained locally and with associate programs until he went to vocational school at 17. He is now a professional ballet dancer. I feel that personally, boys especially, don’t need to go away for lower school. Our daughter went away at 11 and our experience of that is on other threads 😢 There are lots of positive opportunities for children to train whilst living at home x

@cotes du rhone !how often did he train a week until he went to vocational school?

[Lifeafterballet]

Just now, NotadanceMa said:

@cotes du rhone !how often did he train a week until he went to vocational school?

He did 3 ballet classes a week in our local church hall, horrendous flooring 🤣. Then one associate class on a Saturday at Elmhurst for two years and then RBS SAs in Covent Garden for one year before getting a place at vocational school at 17.  He attended Elmhurst and Malvern summer schools too. We were very naive back then at to what was actually available out there and thought that the only way to train was in a full time setting like his sister. After travelling the world and meeting so many other ballet students and parents we now know that it isn’t the only route. I feel he wasn’t prepared physically to make the leap from 4 plus local classes a week to full time and he got a bit broken. But now we are more aware of what we should have done to help him prepare. 
If you have any questions I’m very happy to help 😀

[NotadanceMa]

Just now, cotes du rhone ! said:

He did 3 ballet classes a week in our local church hall, horrendous flooring 🤣. Then one associate class on a Saturday at Elmhurst for two years and then RBS SAs in Covent Garden for one year before getting a place at vocational school at 17.  He attended Elmhurst and Malvern summer schools too. We were very naive back then at to what was actually available out there and thought that the only way to train was in a full time setting like his sister. After travelling the world and meeting so many other ballet students and parents we now know that it isn’t the only route. I feel he wasn’t prepared physically to make the leap from 4 plus local classes a week to full time and he got a bit broken. But now we are more aware of what we should have done to help him prepare. 
If you have any questions I’m very happy to help 😀

Thankyou I don’t think full-time vocational training is going to work for my child. Just have that feeling might be wrong don’t think so though. 😁 It’s really good to hear a different path taken. 

[Lifeafterballet]

3 minutes ago, NotadanceMa said:

Thankyou I don’t think full-time vocational training is going to work for my child. Just have that feeling might be wrong don’t think so though. 😁 It’s really good to hear a different path taken. 

It’s not the only route and it’s not for everyone. I deeply regret letting our daughter go at 11 but we were naive and then when it started to go wrong too deep into it to make a rational decision to withdraw. It just sadly prolonged all our agony and if we had been brave then maybe she would still love ballet and found her happy place sooner. 
I think boys are very different. I know of quite a few who have started later and gone on to keep their love of ballet intact and have a wonderful career. My son is a happy dancer 😀 Good luck with you decision, go with your heart 💜 

[dancingboy65]

My DS is at Central, he went at 16. He did NBT associate's and Ballet Boost as well as his local classes. He also did a few summer schools with the odd masterclass thrown in (funds permitting!!) He was ready to go at 16 he wasn't keen to go any earlier. Having a brilliant male teacher locally made all the difference to him.

[rowan]

Mine went to normal school, trained locally after school, didn’t have any private lessons, was on an associate scheme for about a year or so, but has been a professional ballet dancer for a few years now. 

[Dance*is*life]

I have a male student at the moment and have trained quite a few others, one of whom trained at Elmhurst upper school and turned pro.   My current one was one of the few in his class who simply couldn't cope with zoom.  However, unlike the handful of girls who refused to do zoom, he came back, which has shown me that he is keen.  Boys seem to take longer to mature and develop strength and co-ordination, but get there in the end!   I would wait and send him at 16.  I'm sure he'll be ready then.  I was told about Saturday all boys classes at London Boys Ballet School in Finsbury Park.  Something like that would be wonderful for all those lone boys in all girl classes!

[Medora]

DD is not at vocational school as it simply wasn't the right choice for us at this point, but I am honestly not sure how we can keep her training at a level which would enable her to have a chance at upper vocational school. It's so hard to combine school and ballet. I feel we need way more hours per week than we are currently able to manage. She does about ten hours but should probably do twice the amount? Any advice on how to keep them on the right track without going to lower school would be greatly appreciated!

 

It's also difficult with the social side of things. DD is really feeling the effects of not being available to grab that after school Starbucks or have those sleepovers which her friends are enjoying. She is really drifting apart from her friendship group at school. She is ok with this and understands why this is happening, but of course it still hurts on some level. Had she gone to a lower school, I imagine things would be different - you're surrounded by likeminded children, you are boarding and therefore physically distant from your old friends so the drifting apart would not be noticeable in the same way that it is now. 

 

I would love to hear how your DC managed this side of things?

[NotadanceMa]

@Medorathats what we found. Despite the misgivings on my part my child wanted to go to LS this yr. They would not have been ready for Y7 at all.

We home educated for snr school as they are my only child and we are fortunate to have an HE study centre nearby.

Ballet took up all our lives, with classes, driving, intensive and workshops. My child was old enough to know it was what they wanted to aim for longer term, but has a firm group of local friends made easier by HE and clear alternative career options. Despite being at LS now in the later years, ballet is not their be all and end all.
They also have some firm friends who went off to vocational at Y7.

My child did 10 hrs a week of what was good quality training, but I think if had not been offered places at vocational this year would have returned to school and maybe just done ballet for fun. They loved EYB, BRB and LCB performing and would have continued for them, and has made a couple of good friends through this route.

I’m not going to lie, I didn’t want to do the driving anymore either, we both reached our end point at the same time.

The reality is that if your daughter wants to train seriously then some friends outside ballet do often become secondary, however that said we never did much in the main holidays and my child would catch up with all their local friends then. My child kept a small group of good friends from primary school and his local ballet school and has never lost contact with them. They are making new friends, but once home is off with their local friends. Your daughters friends will also understand if they are good friends. What would we do without WhatsApp.

 

It is a tough call, 10 hrs a week is plenty IME as long as the quality of it is good. Is your daughter on one of the associate programs, does she do maybe one intensive a year, have she tried out for LS auditions for the experience so she can get a good sense of how she is in relation to other children her age. Does she try out for things like EYB for performance experience. This was what my child’s JA teacher recommended at Y6 as we didn’t want LS at that time.

Feedback from her ballet teacher in how she is doing and an honest appraisal of what she thinks.”

 

My child did audition for lower schools all years before this year and has had offers every year which we turned down, but the experience of the audition process was absolutely worthwhile. It is a very specific incomparable experience especially finals in all the schools.

Auditioning and performing have played a very important part of knowing how my child was doing. Apart from it being something they adored it gives a sense of what teachers expect from them.

 

It might also be that with the teenage years to US your daughter drifts away naturally from the pursuit of ballet in this way. The pull of friends, relationships, socialising, increased homework, interest in other things absolutely test a child’s desire and motivation to continue down what is a very difficult path.

 

 

[FlexyNexy]

There is nowhere written that to make it in the ballet world, child has to do join vocational school, same goes for RB associates schemes. I know so many children, now young adults that had quality traning in small church halls and are professional dancers. 
I refused to be swept by the ballet wave and I always wanted for my DD to have both "normal" life and ballet world. We did not even look into auditioning for lover schools as I did not see the reason why she should...most of the kids do not receive pass to the upper schools anyway. She spent few weeks at associates and refused to go back..same as senior RB summer school she found waste of time and walked out.
For her was always important the training quality rather "famed name of the school"...and I was reminded by her very often to look at the company dancers and where they came from...very little from the associated or vocational schools. Her journey taught me not to be afraid to walk out even from place that looks very good on a paper or instagram profile and go where you can really progress and see the change. She has declined upper schools, trained or a concrete floor without having fancy studios and as graduate she received various offers, but sadly visa situation decided for her to stay put for a while.

Edited October 18, 2021 by FlexyNexy
spelling error

[rowan]

I think going to normal school with plenty of normal, non-ballet options is a benefit in many cases. It means your child can have more of a genuine choice; they aren’t shoehorned into pursuing ballet if it’s no longer a good fit for them.
 

In our case, things were made simpler because of two things. Firstly, we had never applied for vocational school, and no teacher had ever suggested it, so our expectations of a ballet career were virtually nil in the first place; dancing was a very, very keen hobby. Secondly, we had good-quality local training which was easy to access, good availability of classes, and generally within walking distance - handy, as we don’t have a car. We did not do things like EYB or LCB.

 

Certainly, my child did give up some teenage “stuff” in order to do ballet - but this was her choice, and yet she still managed to go out with school friends, go to parties, do her schoolwork to a high standard, play her musical instrument etc. To be honest, there didn’t seem to be a huge difference in teenage experience between my non-dancing child and the dancing one. The dancer had to be more focused and disciplined, perhaps.
 

 

[glissade]

8 hours ago, FlexyNexy said:

I refused to be swept by the ballet wave and I always wanted for my DD to have both "normal" life and ballet world. We did not even look into auditioning for lover schools as I did not see the reason why she should...most of the kids do not receive pass to the upper schools anyway.

Nail on head 👍

[Medora]

Thanks everyone, truly appreciate hearing your perspectives. It's clearly hard work to find, and fit in enough quality training after school, but hopefully not impossible.

 

As far as the social aspect is concerned, I feel I can relate to DD as I was in a similar position myself, it wasn't dance in my case but a sport. I made all those social sacrifices and by the time I walked away from it I found that I hadn't missed much, I was able to slot right in with my school friends and have a normal teenage/20s experience. It's just hard for DD as her friendships have gone through a rocky patch recently, with her friends all starting the same secondary school and her being at a different one. She is also at a new dance school since before the pandemic, and hasn't had that much time with these new children as so much was on zoom these past 18 months. 

[coniger]

we took my DC out of vocational school at the end of year 7 as we weren't happy with the academics, pastoral care or the ballet training.  We home schooled for a year and then we put him back into a normal school who let him out to train.  In the year that he was back in school he auditioned and gained a place at white lodge which he turned down and a month after that decided he didn't want to dance anymore.  It was the best decision for him.

 

The teacher that got him over the disastrous year at vocational school and trained him through his home schooling and back into an academic school was Jose Martin at Raw Talent.  He taught my son ballet to the highest level but more importantly became a mentor and gave him space to discover what he actually wanted to do. 

 

He may no longer do ballet but it is/was a success story for the happy person he is today.

 

I don't work for Raw Talent but I am a big believer in what they do and am forever grateful for what they did for my son

07587 110166

info@rawtalentballetcoaching.com

[Medora]

Coniger I have heard really great things about Jose Martin, he is still teaching. How wonderful for your son to have found a mentor, that's exactly what we all need!

[Dance*is*life]

I was always friendly with the girls at my all girls grammer school, but they weren't really on the same wavelength as me.  It was not until I went to a full time performing arts day school that I made real friends - they understood me - and we are friends till today.  Interestingly I was not really close to my fellow student at RBS US  in the same way - perhaps there was too much rivalry?   At the school where I teach the students are close friends both at regular school and ballet school and it's a pleasure to see!