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Lemongirl
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Fees at LSC are currently around £15k/year (ouch!)

 

Even though this is a degree course attached to a university, the maximum loan students can take out for the fees is around £6K leaving a huge shortfall.

 

At other universities, as I understand it, fees are around £9K and students can take a loan to cover this in full and it's not means tested.

 

Does anyone know the reason for this difference?

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The reason is that it is a private institution offering a degree validated by another university.  The government rules are that students can only loan £6k at private institutions and the college set the fees at a level that they feel they need to in order to provide the course.  Contact hours are usually a lot higher at vocational colleges than at normal universities.

 

Some normal universities offer their own vocational training degrees but franchise them out to a private college.  At those places you can borrow the full £9k.

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Thank you.  It does make sense that the fees are higher than at other universities but it doesn't seem fair that students can't get the full amount of loan of £9K.  Even with this, they still have a shortfall of £6K.

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Yes, Jewel is right. LSC is a private college and runs its own course, but it can’t award degrees. Although the degree is validated by Middlesex University,  LSC students aren’t actually Middlesex students and therefore can’t get the normal student loan. As it’s a private college, there’s also no cap on the fees, hence why it’s more expensive.

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2 hours ago, Lemongirl said:

Fees at LSC are currently around £15k/year (ouch!)

 

Even though this is a degree course attached to a university, the maximum loan students can take out for the fees is around £6K leaving a huge shortfall.

 

At other universities, as I understand it, fees are around £9K and students can take a loan to cover this in full and it's not means tested.

 

Does anyone know the reason for this difference?

It might depend on the nature of the partnership/arrangement between LSC and the validating body (Uni/HEI/Higher Education Institution) and may also be due to the validating body's registration with the Office for Students which can determine the maximum amount of fees they can access from Student Finance England. I definitely know some private providers who can access the full £9250 loan from SFE/SLC.  In these cases, the programme is delivered by the private provider, but validated/franchised, quality assured and the degree awarded by the HEI/Uni.  So these students are registered with both the private provider AND the HEI, and are technically considered students of the HEI based at the private provider.

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LSC is classed as a private University and charges similar fees to Arts Ed. Their new degree courses are validated by the University of Creative Arts. LSC do have good links with Chester House. They provide catered halls at a very reasonable price. Luckily we live in Wales so we get very good maintenance loans that pay for the halls and have surplus to put towards the fees. 

LSC also offer scholarships for certain incomes.

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Having a daughter who has just gone through this process it is very frustrating! 

We had to tell her not to audition as we didn’t want to get her hopes up when we knew we couldn’t afford it. 
You can get the full student loan for fees along with the means tested maintenance loan from urdang, bird and performers if you want to consider other options, 

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I assumed that the thread was only about BA Hons degrees.  Bird run two different courses, the BA Hons for which full student funding is available for all successful applicants and the Trinity Diploma for which Dance & Drama Awards are available for some applicants.

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When I first started reading this forum I began to think it was the norm to attend from age 16 (whether that was for diploma or degree courses). 
 

Then I realised it was only the norm for ballet. 
 

For musical theatre it’s much more common to start at 18 - although there are some 16 year olds on the diploma courses it’s our experience that they seem to be in the minority. 
 

And for straight drama it seems that many are even older than 18 and some apply several times before being accepted. 
 

I think it really depends on your child’s talents and wishes. But I personally felt much better when I realised it was far from essential to move away from home at 16 years old. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 06/09/2021 at 16:43, oliviaT said:

When I first started reading this forum I began to think it was the norm to attend from age 16 (whether that was for diploma or degree courses). 
 

Then I realised it was only the norm for ballet. 
 

For musical theatre it’s much more common to start at 18 - although there are some 16 year olds on the diploma courses it’s our experience that they seem to be in the minority. 
 

And for straight drama it seems that many are even older than 18 and some apply several times before being accepted. 
 

I think it really depends on your child’s talents and wishes. But I personally felt much better when I realised it was far from essential to move away from home at 16 years old. 

I concur with everything you’ve said.
 

Having seen friends DC head off to the big named MT colleges post GCSE’s & A levels over the past few years it’s been interesting to watch how their careers have taken off post graduation.  Last yrs younger male graduate took to the Westend stage in a major new production only last week for his first ever contract!   So being young upon graduation isn’t necessarily a hinderance. However……. that being said. It’s how they reach graduation day that must also be considered. 
 

The main challenges I have seen and heard about directly is that because the 16yr olds are in the minority when they start, whilst they can generally hold their own in the studio, at the bigger institutions they can ‘get lost’. Sometimes staff can ‘forget’ just how young some actually are. There’s a lot of growing up and maturing done between 16-18 both mentally and physically. As we are all probably aware, the latter being more so for the boys than the girls. 
 

Whilst classical pupils aim & focus upon graduation is to join a company be that in the UK or across Europe. It’s still a company so that becomes their extended family. The MT graduates are literally out on their own upon graduation day. For want of a better word they are ‘freelance’. 19 is a scary time to be out on your own seeking work, one contract to another from as little as one weekends events to the much sort after stability of a prolonged contract of 6/9/12 months. That’s before they have to think where the work is in relation to their home address. Not that I’m saying graduating at 21+ is any easier. The only difference being maturity and increased life experience that can help them on their way. 
 

And yup, I’m mum to a 2021 graduate, who only turned 19 the week she graduated 😱

 

 

Edited by balletbean
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Going back to fees....

am I right in thinking that the schools included as ‘conservatoire’ are indeed fee capped at the standard rate (c. £9k) and would qualify for full standard student loans? 

Honestly, I thought I’d researched & knew about fees & funding inside out but I’d not at all realised that ‘orivate’ institutions providing degrees fees are different.... I’d assumed any degree course meant equal playing field financially....

Can some also offer DaDa’s which, based on means testing might cover more of fees? 

Am also concerned seeing A Levels might be required for degree courses in dance.... is this true for entry post sixth form? 

 

Edited by Peanut68
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5 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

Going back to fees....

am I right in thinking that the schools included as ‘conservatoire’ are indeed fee capped at the standard rate (c. £9k) and would qualify for full standard student loans? 

Honestly, I thought I’d researched & knew about fees & funding inside out but I’d not at all realised that ‘orivate’ institutions providing degrees fees are different.... I’d assumed any degree course meant equal playing field financially....

Can some also offer DaDa’s which, based on means testing might cover more of fees? 

Am also concerned seeing A Levels might be required for degree courses in dance.... is this true for entry post sixth form? 

 

Just picking up on your last question. Some institutions are flexible. I know of one MT pupil that left her academic school post yr12 so no final A levels and was offered a place on the degree course. The private colleges could have more of a say on their application process than those accessed via UCAS but I suspect that each case would be dealt with on their own merit. 

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Unfortunately, not all degree courses provide full funding and each institution will have their own entry requirements. Bird and Performers do require level 3 qualifications so A levels, BTEC National or Access to HE for their degree. They accept GCSE for their Diploma courses. Dada’s may be offered with these.
Dada’s do reduce fees but you may need to pay for accommodation as the cut off threshold is low for accommodation assistance. Dependent on where the school is this could be expensive. For us it was cheaper to pay the outstanding LSC fees (9k but we get maintenance loan we can use to reduce this to 4K) than accept a Dada at a different school. The Dada would have reduced fees to 2k a year 😊but accommodation was 13k a year🤪.

 

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