Changes to RBS audition process 2021-22

[Balletmummy18]

9 out of 15 boys are going to upper school from WL year 11. 5 of those started in year 7.

[Peanut68]

I am interested to see that it appears far more WL trained students are gaining places in RBS US this year - bravo!!

My only (slightly cynical?) thought is, will this just be a one off (maybe 2 year) blip due to pandemic having meant fewer international competitions/masterclasses/intensivecourses attended by the ‘powers that be’ & fewer overseas students risking travel to auditions etc & indeed fewer overseas patents willing to risk sending youngsters abroad in these times when there is still a danger of schooling moving online at the drop of a hat...I know I’d hate a youngster of mine to be overseas in these uncertain times....

Of course, I absolutely salute those gaining places at RBS wether via WL or any other route from home or abroad as am sure they are all extremely talented, dedicated & deserve their places. 

[Lifeafterballet]

1 minute ago, Peanut68 said:

I am interested to see that it appears far more WL trained students are gaining places in RBS US this year - bravo!!

My only (slightly cynical?) thought is, will this just be a one off (maybe 2 year) blip due to pandemic having meant fewer international competitions/masterclasses/intensivecourses attended by the ‘powers that be’ & fewer overseas students risking travel to auditions etc & indeed fewer overseas patents willing to risk sending youngsters abroad in these times when there is still a danger of schooling moving online at the drop of a hat...I know I’d hate a youngster of mine to be overseas in these uncertain times....

Of course, I absolutely salute those gaining places at RBS wether via WL or any other route from home or abroad as am sure they are all extremely talented, dedicated & deserve their places. 

I think you may see this replicated around the US/EU as well. And not just in schools. Ds’s company have given a lot of contracts to its feeder school this year 🎉 

It’s only in the U.K. that companies haven’t increased their employment from U.K. schools 😏 

[Peanut68]

All very unusual tines...  I just truly hope that the UK Arts sectors can get on track soon & maybe look to support its on affiliated training establishments more too? 

[Nama]

On 16/07/2021 at 09:35, Peanut68 said:

So am I reading this correctly? That up to 6 precious RBS upper school places (1 year?or 2? Or 3) offered from one competition alone????

this is NOT fair as no way is this an audition opportunity available to all (even fewer than usual in these covid travel restricted times too I’d imagine) 

I’d be interested to know how this sits with the huge subsidies/bequests/tax deductible corporate charitable gifts/gift aided donations etc where much of this giving is with the Sim of supporting BRITISH ballet training....surely Witt the hope/expectations of nurturing home grown talent?? Thoughts peeps....

From past experience and witnessed directly when daughter at RBS US - the Yagp pay for one year for the students.  Then they used to be allocated to a uk sponsor who attended sponsor showcases and performances.  They used to be noted in the programme at these events next to the sponsored students. The more prestigious the sponsor the more prestigious the student. It was always unclear how students were allocated to the most influential sponsors. Usually a board member or on the most significant internal committees. 

They are very present in the school and view the students more often than I did as a parent.  This was advertised to potential sponsors as part of the package. They attend the graduation with the students. Also as students progressed into the coy the sponsor follows the student and again attend events and sponsorship and lobbying continues. After numerous complaints by the uk parents and fee paying parents - systems changed to be a sponsorship for the year group.   Also awards and scholarships are allocated directly by the AD  to students requiring funding - and at the AD discretion.  It is a close relationship with  the funding source and the students success. Take a look at the annual report it lists all the funding methods.  Yagp officials are often visitors into the school and treated with great courtesy as you would imagine. The RBS board attempted to make it more translucent but in reality minor changes !!!!!

[Peanut68]

I can’t be the only person to read the above who feels uncomfortable & a big sick at the thought of all that???

really bit appropriate in this day & age....who is auditing all these processes? And I can’t hekp but wonder if again this is why so many overseas students:- less hooos to jump through???

[Newbie2]

We have just sent off my DD’s audition application for year 10 entry for RBS (she’s currently in year 9) - am i reading correctly that everyone (girls) from that year who applies will be offered an audition class for Sunday 16th January 2022? Surely there could be 1000s who apply?

 

Also will there be a final audition for year 10 entry? It’s so confusing!

 

Last year my DD got offered a direct entry to the final audition (off back of the online summer school in 2020) - there were only approx 4 of them on the day and she didnt get a place, so i know how hard it is!  

[NotadanceMa]

On 26/07/2021 at 14:03, Peanut68 said:

I am interested to see that it appears far more WL trained students are gaining places in RBS US this year - bravo!!

My only (slightly cynical?) thought is, will this just be a one off (maybe 2 year) blip due to pandemic having meant fewer international competitions/masterclasses/intensivecourses attended by the ‘powers that be’ & fewer overseas students risking travel to auditions etc & indeed fewer overseas patents willing to risk sending youngsters abroad in these times when there is still a danger of schooling moving online at the drop of a hat...I know I’d hate a youngster of mine to be overseas in these uncertain times....

Of course, I absolutely salute those gaining places at RBS wether via WL or any other route from home or abroad as am sure they are all extremely talented, dedicated & deserve their places. 

Compared to previous years you are right to be cynical. IMHO I believe it will be directly linked to the pandemic. I am in no way casting doubt on the wonderful boys that have been successful this year, but I wish this sort of intake for children that they had trained from Y7 had been reflected in previous US intakes. 

[WhereToNow]

3 hours ago, Newbie2 said:

We have just sent off my DD’s audition application for year 10 entry for RBS (she’s currently in year 9) - am i reading correctly that everyone (girls) from that year who applies will be offered an audition class for Sunday 16th January 2022? Surely there could be 1000s who apply?

 

Also will there be a final audition for year 10 entry? It’s so confusing!

 

Last year my DD got offered a direct entry to the final audition (off back of the online summer school in 2020) - there were only approx 4 of them on the day and she didnt get a place, so i know how hard it is!  

Same here!  It’s a bit of a minefield.

But yes, if they get offered the audition it will be on 16th and then finals will be Feb/March time.  One of the girls from my DD school auditioned for yr10 pre covid and said there wasn’t very many of them.  

[Lisa O`Brien]

I noticed on the RBS Facebook page over the last few days announcements that they will be auditioning for FT places in Italy, the Czech Republic and other countries. If only 12 girls and 12 boys are accepted at WL into Year 7, and they are now looking for those students abroad as well; this must surely be going to make it even more difficult for British students to gain a place there? If i'm reading this accurately, then this is so unfair on British children. Should they not be prioritising their own countries students first?

[Birdy]

They did international auditions before COVID as well. This isn’t new. It seems to be a universal frustration that companies and the schools associated with them accept students from around the world and that they recruit so heavily from competitions. At American Ballet Theatre, for instance, 3 of the 6 apprentices are not from the United States. In the Studio Company there are at least 4 international dancers (which I believe is lower than in previous years).

[Lifeafterballet]

I see that Elmhurst are off to the US and Japan to hold auditions this year too 😒 Is this financially driven ? I think yes. There are a couple of Gofundme pages in circulation on social media for their students I’ve noticed. 

[Peanut68]

17 hours ago, Lisa O`Brien said:

I noticed on the RBS Facebook page over the last few days announcements that they will be auditioning for FT places in Italy, the Czech Republic and other countries. If only 12 girls and 12 boys are accepted at WL into Year 7, and they are now looking for those students abroad as well; this must surely be going to make it even more difficult for British students to gain a place there? If i'm reading this accurately, then this is so unfair on British children. Should they not be prioritising their own countries students first?

Especially when so heavily funded by British Tax Payers enabling ALL UK based students to be fully funded on a means tested basis.... so in theory  they don’t need to look for fee income from overseas...

Also I dare say they receive additional government funding via Charitable status, via Arts Fund grants & others....not to mention the philanthropic support of Corporste Comanies & Indovidusls (who in turn quite likely benefit from tax savings....again a ‘cost’ or loss of income to the exchequer so all of us in effect. Also, all those who click to add donations, all those who join as ‘friemds’, all those 1000’s paying the application & audition fees for courses....despite knowing the odds of gaining a place are so small. Often these small sums are quite hard for individuals to find but add up to a sizeable amount. I think it is an insult to all of them & all of us to then say they can’t find suitable home grown talent & surely suggests they have little faith on their own training to produce dancers of the calibre for professional work! It is morally questionable too. Does the  Government not have to audit or do due diligence on their funding to ensure it does indeed represent good value for money for U.K. tax payers?

This same relates also to other schools/colleges/unis & dance compsmies also.

On another side, it enrages me that Ballet Dancer’s I understand are in the list of employees that can be sourced overseas....ie. shortage of suitable dancers from UK resident population. 

Thus surely suggests also that the governments mivey is not being spent wisely in these training institutions to train their students to a good enough level.... or is it the way that their overseas students trained in the U.K., taking places away from British students & benefiting from the U.K. taxpayer cash spent on grants & the facilities they are spent on, apprenticeship teachers etc. etc. (Yes, I appreciate they are self funding via family/sponsorship/prizes awarded....who pays those ‘fees’ I wonder? (Again, if it’s a free place at RBS then is that the tax payer? Or a sponsor who might otherwise subsidise a U.K. student? 

I do get the whole argument of wanting/needing ‘the best of the best’ & to be a global player etc but I don’t think that is relevant in what is deemed the National Training Institution of excellence when intake numbers are so small anyhow. The ‘global’ element can be catered for by student exchanges surely? So our dancers benefit too from alternative training styles abroad? 

Of cotese, another cynical take on this is suggesting it’s the egos of these school leaders who want their career cv to see them as international players....

Jyst a few rambling thoughts...!

[Jan McNulty]

23 hours ago, Birdy said:

They did international auditions before COVID as well. This isn’t new. It seems to be a universal frustration that companies and the schools associated with them accept students from around the world and that they recruit so heavily from competitions. At American Ballet Theatre, for instance, 3 of the 6 apprentices are not from the United States. In the Studio Company there are at least 4 international dancers (which I believe is lower than in previous years).

 

Hello Birdy and welcome out of the lurking shadows!

[Nama]

14 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

Especially when so heavily funded by British Tax Payers enabling ALL UK based students to be fully funded on a means tested basis.... so in theory  they don’t need to look for fee income from overseas...

Also I dare say they receive additional government funding via Charitable status, via Arts Fund grants & others....not to mention the philanthropic support of Corporste Comanies & Indovidusls (who in turn quite likely benefit from tax savings....again a ‘cost’ or loss of income to the exchequer so all of us in effect. Also, all those who click to add donations, all those who join as ‘friemds’, all those 1000’s paying the application & audition fees for courses....despite knowing the odds of gaining a place are so small. Often these small sums are quite hard for individuals to find but add up to a sizeable amount. I think it is an insult to all of them & all of us to then say they can’t find suitable home grown talent & surely suggests they have little faith on their own training to produce dancers of the calibre for professional work! It is morally questionable too. Does the  Government not have to audit or do due diligence on their funding to ensure it does indeed represent good value for money for U.K. tax payers?

This same relates also to other schools/colleges/unis & dance compsmies also.

On another side, it enrages me that Ballet Dancer’s I understand are in the list of employees that can be sourced overseas....ie. shortage of suitable dancers from UK resident population. 

Thus surely suggests also that the governments mivey is not being spent wisely in these training institutions to train their students to a good enough level.... or is it the way that their overseas students trained in the U.K., taking places away from British students & benefiting from the U.K. taxpayer cash spent on grants & the facilities they are spent on, apprenticeship teachers etc. etc. (Yes, I appreciate they are self funding via family/sponsorship/prizes awarded....who pays those ‘fees’ I wonder? (Again, if it’s a free place at RBS then is that the tax payer? Or a sponsor who might otherwise subsidise a U.K. student? 

I do get the whole argument of wanting/needing ‘the best of the best’ & to be a global player etc but I don’t think that is relevant in what is deemed the National Training Institution of excellence when intake numbers are so small anyhow. The ‘global’ element can be catered for by student exchanges surely? So our dancers benefit too from alternative training styles abroad? 

Of cotese, another cynical take on this is suggesting it’s the egos of these school leaders who want their career cv to see them as international players....

Jyst a few rambling thoughts...!

Totally agree. This has been discussed over and over on these forums by numerous parents - including me - in various threads.  Nothing has changed over the years. The funding methods for these uk schools relies heavily on Yagp and prix money for scholarships and influential sponsors and donors allocated to students and year groups. Prizes and scholarships. These kids then get showcased etc and promoted to satisfy the personal motivation of the donors to encourage them to keep donating - access to the kids and reflected glory all an intricate part of the whole funding method of these schools. The more prestigious the prize winner, more insta followers, the more the school wants the kid - the more likely those kids are pushed for job allocation. These matters are not new. It’s raised over and over again. Nothing changes - despite how often complaints are made and conflicts of interest are identified. Parents complain every year. No one listens to them. We speak out and nothing changes. Various parents have spoken out on these forums - yet the same thing happen over and over. If the teachers taught the kids properly in WL to world standard. -  then the kids would be world standard - so why seek a new batch to replace them in upper school. And why “assess” them out in year 2 and replace them with other kids taught by other schools. Surely the fact they are assessed out indicates a failure of the staff teaching the upper school kids. And what a joke that the kids been taught for as little as 12 months are then “graduated” into jobs at RB coy and BRB and other top companies in the world. Surely it’s a reflection of another teachers efforts - and just  a quick polish up by the current. school. There are numerous examples of this happening over the last few years. And why is it the kids assessed out are not provided with assistance to find another place in another prestigious school - the teachers of the incoming kids are getting pushed and supported to gain a place. Surely the assessed out kids deserve to be supported and assisted too. I know they are not helped and receive little if any counselling and direction.  This is not acceptable. 

Parents should complain and question what’s happening in uk schools and demand transparency through this whole system. Enough is enough. There are a large number of kids that have been treated poorly through this process in uk schools and it should be addressed and cease. 

[Glissé]

4 hours ago, Nama said:

If the teachers taught the kids properly in WL to world standard. -  then the kids would be world standard - so why seek a new batch to replace them in upper school. And why “assess” them out in year 2 and replace them with other kids taught by other schools. Surely the fact they are assessed out indicates a failure of the staff teaching the upper school kids. And what a joke that the kids been taught for as little as 12 months are then “graduated” into jobs at RB coy and BRB and other top companies in the world. Surely it’s a reflection of another teachers efforts - and just  a quick polish up by the current. school. There are numerous examples of this happening over the last few years. And why is it the kids assessed out are not provided with assistance to find another place in another prestigious school - the teachers of the incoming kids are getting pushed and supported to gain a place. Surely the assessed out kids deserve to be supported and assisted too

I agree, there is an element of distrust in their own system of training when it comes to training British students to a high enough standard for companies. When British students are assessed out in yr 9 they are immediately replaced by ‘international stars’ with a very large social media following as well as outstanding technique for their age. Often these students are moved up a year or two because they are such a high standard. For example a 14 yr old international student may join yr 11. Imagine how that would make the British 16 yr olds feel who have been through the schools system of training for 5 yrs! Indeed they are just polished up and they make a great advertisement for the school when in fact they trained intensively elsewhere in their childhood. They also enter the major competitions eg YAGP and Prix something the British students aren’t even allowed to do. But the artistic directors are allowed to attend to scout talent... As for support for the assessed out students there isn’t any. It’s known that as soon as they leave they’re replaced immediately. Indeed they do deserve as much support if not more than the attention that goes towards finding new talent. But the harsh reality is that they do not care. 

[coniger]

1 hour ago, Glissé said:

I agree, there is an element of distrust in their own system of training when it comes to training British students to a high enough standard for companies. When British students are assessed out in yr 9 they are immediately replaced by ‘international stars’ with a very large social media following as well as outstanding technique for their age. Often these students are moved up a year or two because they are such a high standard. For example a 14 yr old international student may join yr 11. Imagine how that would make the British 16 yr olds feel who have been through the schools system of training for 5 yrs! Indeed they are just polished up and they make a great advertisement for the school when in fact they trained intensively elsewhere in their childhood. They also enter the major competitions eg YAGP and Prix something the British students aren’t even allowed to do. But the artistic directors are allowed to attend to scout talent... As for support for the assessed out students there isn’t any. It’s known that as soon as they leave they’re replaced immediately. Indeed they do deserve as much support if not more than the attention that goes towards finding new talent. But the harsh reality is that they do not care. 

My DS who has had all his ballet training in the UK was offered a place in year 10 for this year at White Lodge.  He was offered his place before the international students were seen for finals due to covid restrictions this year.  He didn't take it and has since given up ballet but yes they do take UK students if they think if they will fit - also my DS got to finals in year 6 but  wasn't offered a place at WL for year 7 so things change.  Don't worry about them seeing students abroad - if they want you they will take you.