Guest Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 2 hours ago, DanJL said: We knew about most of the ballets in the season already of course, but I remain very happy with the choices and even more so with the newly revealed details. As it happens I have a feeling there will be quite a few Romeo and Juliet casts I'll be very keen to watch, so I'm glad about the spacing across the season. I'll admit I'm in a different position to many on this forum having never seen Giselle in the flesh or the Royal Ballet production of Swan Lake, so I perhaps anticipate them more keenly than others. Ever since I started reading this forum (only about three years ago to be fair) there have been calls to do something different at Christmas as a change from Nutcracker. As far as I'm concerned, that call has been answered admirably. I remember enjoying a wonderful triple bill (including Les Patineurs and Winter Dreams) I think in 2018 and then Nutcracker replaced completely by Coppelia in 2019 - possibly quite a brave move financially. Unfortunately last year there were only four performances of a reduced Nutcracker to distanced audiences. So I think we're actually overdue a full run of Nutcrackers again and the chance to see those promised debuts. OK. I am going to play Mr. Grumpy here, but am going to say that once Nutcracker has been rested for at least ten years (yes please), then we may just begin to consider it 'overdue.' Cinderella is most certainly overdue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Ha ha “night vision goggles” I haven’t been to current programme but had a friend on the phone lamenting they poor lighting of a couple of ballets and then she went to see ENB and more of the same!!! She definitely had it in for lighting people in general tonight lol! I agree with a lot of what Floss says above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob S Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Maybe all of the audience should bring cigarette lighters to illuminate the place 🔦 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Or shine mobile phone torches in unison as a protest every time the dancers become invisible lol!! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Richard LH said: Not too enthused either about a repetition of Kyle Abraham and Solo Echo. Bring your night vision goggles for this one. Well, I nodded off during Solo Echo last time, so I suppose I could do with seeing it again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scheherezade Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 I know that many people groan at the prospect of yet another undiluted season of Nutcrackers but I have to say that for me Christmas doesn’t feel like Christmas without an annual dose of Nutcracker glitter and magic. It’s like taking the children to see Santa. Perhaps the answer would be to dilute the undiluted; keep the Nutcrackers but stir a seasonal something else into the mix. Is there any reason why this isn’t possible? 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 I wonder whether bubble restrictions might play a part? I haven't looked at the actual scheduling, but are the different programmes more separate from each other than usual, rather than overlapping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 A very long time ago the Festival Ballet used to do so many Nutcrackers at the Festival Hall that certain musicians used to know how to time it exactly to get to their orchestra place ( from the bar) in time to play their instrument on cue!! Yes I think a mixture of Nutcrackers and a “seasonal” triple for example could work well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 There was a time, maybe back in the 80s and 90s, when Cinderella (the company's more usual seasonal offering,) was alternated with The Nutcracker more or less every other year, although some years both were presented. The problem, for me, with the current production of Nutcracker is, it is like Christmas itself: glossy, eagerly anticipated. bit of a disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Rob S said: Maybe all of the audience should bring cigarette lighters to illuminate the place 🔦 a whip round to put a few extra 50p's in the meter.... (as they say - contemporary choreographers do it in the dark) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 33 minutes ago, zxDaveM said: a whip round to put a few extra 50p's in the meter.... (as they say - contemporary choreographers do it in the dark) I mean....all the hours of work and rehearsals.... and then we can’t see the final result! I have been saying it for years: don’t these choreographers want the audience to actually see the results of their (and everyone else’s) hard work? 🤔 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 4 hours ago, Sim said: I mean....all the hours of work and rehearsals.... and then we can’t see the final result! I have been saying it for years: don’t these choreographers want the audience to actually see the results of their (and everyone else’s) hard work? 🤔 I think it's just fashionable now; wearing black, seeing black. All part of not wanting to be seen as anything approaching (dread word) 'entertainment'. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 I have a real battle over lighting every time I do my own show. Technicians seem obsessed with the "black box" effect. Fine for moody contemporary pieces, but not suitable for classical ballet, particularly children's dances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 7 hours ago, Darlex said: OK. I am going to play Mr. Grumpy here, but am going to say that once Nutcracker has been rested for at least ten years (yes please), then we may just begin to consider it 'overdue.' Cinderella is most certainly overdue. I completely agree about Cinderella, but if/when it comes back I wouldn't want it seen only as a 'Christmas' ballet, any more than Sleeping Beauty is. And I absolutely can't wait to see Nutcracker, this Christmas and every Christmas. I went quite a few years without seeing it at one stage, and when I went back I was stunned all over again at what I'd been missing. Now, the music, the tree, the snowflakes, the sets and costumes, the love, the dancing, the sheer beauty of it all fill me with joyful anticipation that is never disappointed. I did see a Covid Nutcracker last year, but although I was delighted to be there I was aware of the compromises. So I very much hope that this year's production will be the real deal. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, Pas de Quatre said: I have a real battle over lighting every time I do my own show. Technicians seem obsessed with the "black box" effect. Fine for moody contemporary pieces, but not suitable for classical ballet, particularly children's dances. Strange how rarely contemporary pieces want to express any mood but gloomy. Does joy not exist in the contemporary world? (Mark Morris an obvious and honourable exception.) 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 11 hours ago, jmhopton said: It would have been great to have something a bit light and cheerful and I still think La Fille would have been a great opening ballet. You know where you are with dancing chickens! Precisely what I was hoping for, particularly with O’Sullivan and Sambé. I think we could all do with a lovely run of La Fille this year. 😔 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Cinderella would provide the perfect combination of crowd pleaser and honing of classical technique (which Floss refers to) . What is the current situation with the rights to this ballet? Someone from the ‘older generation’ with influence and excellent persuasive skills needs to be recruited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanJL Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 From various previous comments on this forum I believe it currently isn't possible to put on Cinderella (I'm afraid I don't know the reasons, but maybe others can remind us). So that isn't an option at the moment. I'd love to see it when that changes though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingrid Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 I’ve been wondering if there is a reason behind Cinderella not being performed in so many years by the company. And if they were to do it again I imagine it would be very much like Coppelia was, a brand new ballet for the majority of the dancers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 The director has said a number of times that he will only do Cinderella if it is redesigned and the owner of the ballet will not permit that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 20 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said: The director has said a number of times that he will only do Cinderella if it is redesigned and the owner of the ballet will not permit that. Did the director say what was wrong with the current design? I am always very wary of redesigns. I still have spots in front of my eyes after looking at the recent photos of the updated dresses in Les Rendezvous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 15 minutes ago, Fonty said: Did the director say what was wrong with the current design? I am always very wary of redesigns. I still have spots in front of my eyes after looking at the recent photos of the updated dresses in Les Rendezvous. FWIW I agree with the director. The current designs are not the originals and look very dated. Can you imagine in this day and age that the fairy godmother throws the pumpkin into the wings when it turns into a coach? And don't get me started on the dreadful, cringe-worthy Napoleon-style character who has got worse and worse over the years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said: FWIW I agree with the director. The current designs are not the originals and look very dated. Can you imagine in this day and age that the fairy godmother throws the pumpkin into the wings when it turns into a coach? And don't get me started on the dreadful, cringe-worthy Napoleon-style character who has got worse and worse over the years. I can't remember the last time I saw Cinderella, so I have no idea which designs I saw. I believe Yoshida was dancing the title role, which probably dates it a bit. I remember reading somewhere that Ashton's ballet was a tribute to late 19th Century ballet. Who was the Napoleon character supposed to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Pigeons Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 I don't think it is a huge secret to say that Cinderella has been on ice for some years due to difficulties with the producer and current owner of the rights to the ballet. I have seen David Bintley's version of Cinderella. For me it cannot compete with the Ashton one in terms of choreography. However, in design terms, it leaves the last ROH version cold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi M Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 The former costumes of Royal Ballet's Cinderella has been sold to National Ballet of Japan where it is very popular and performed almost every year. So the dancers here wear the costumes with the names of Sylvie Guillem, Miyako Yoshida, Alina Cojocaru and Darcey Bussel. https://www.nntt.jac.go.jp/ballet/cinderella/ 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Whatever disagreements there were in the past between director and rights holder (Wendy Ellis Somes,) if indeed they ever existed, surely, they are resolved by now? If only so much of a season is given over to Ashton rep (and it still mystifies why the allocation is so paltry,) you could argue that at least Cinderella's omission made way for The Two Pigeons, and I was really happy that ballet restored. I wish some of MacMillan's blockbusters were given a little less frequently so that there was room to see both some of his earlier and choral works. Regarding the pumpkin thrown into the wings and turning into a coach, yes I can believe it - just as I don't need to see Giselle changing into her costume and make-up for the second act of Giselle to understand that she is transformed into a spirit. Whatever the redesign for Cinderella, let's hope for something charming, in keeping with the style of the ballet. Nothing Disneyesque or high-tech, just something that complements choreography that speaks so eloquently for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOSS Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 The current production was staged in 2004 during the Ashton centenary celebrations and last seen in 2011. Its designs are undistinguished. The costume designs give Cinderella very pretty becoming rags while the Stepsisters have costumes with such loud and coarse designs that anyone staging a pantomime in the would baulk at them. Sadly Wayne Sleep and Anthony Dowell who appeared as the Stepsisters in 2004 lived up to their costumes and gave the broadest and coarsest accounts of their roles that I have ever seen. Whether they were encouraged in this by Wendy Ellis-Somes is unclear but she did not discourage such broad playing at subsequent revivals. She seems obsessed with the idea that the sisters are essentially characters derived from the pantomime tradition. Perhaps she does not know that using men to play older women is a much older theatrical tradition than that of the nineteenth century pantomime. The performances in 2004 suggested that the stager was more interested in broad pantomime slapstick than the characters depicted in the distinctive choreography Ashton gave each of them. I know that it is usually said that Ashton rather skimped on the choreography for the Stepsisters and relied over much on the ability of Helpmann and himself to improvise their roles. I think that there is enough in the style of choreography each is given to establish their characters and that as with many other ballets he created it contains both in-jokes and references to characters which the 1948 audience would have recognised immediately. At the time he wrote the score Prokofiev was required to stick very closely to the classical tradition. He does that but he also manages to allude to his more avant garde past to spice the whole thing up. I think that Ashton was doing much the same thing with his choreography which is an extraordinary eclectic mixture of pure Petipa style classicism; character portraits based on a basic knowledge of ballet history; material derived from the popular musical theatre and in-joke allusions to people working in the theatre in the late forties. The quiet, down trodden, forgetful sister originally played by Ashton reveals her timidity by her quiet understated dance vocabulary which looks as if it is based on steps used in ballet in the eighteenth century. The forgetfulness suggests that he is alluding to Andre Howard who was, as I understand it, quite well known for forgetting the choreography she had just created but it might equally be a reference to a problem which is said to befall many dance makers in the heat of creation. The dominant sister is big and bossy and aspires to be a great Petipa ballerina. Her trick with the necklace, which rarely comes off these days, is based on what Bea Lillie did on stage. I think we are expected to see it as further evidence of the type of person she is. The short and tall partners had been part of the ballet from the beginning but they only achieved their current identities as Napoleon and Wellington in the production staged in 1965 where it their identities were intended as a reference to the theft of the Goya portrait of the Duke which had occurred in 1961. As far as I am concerned I would restore them to the anonymity they originally enjoyed as that would enable us to lose the unfunny toupee joke which must have originated at some point in a stage accident and has no place in an Ashton ballet. I think that the problem with the Bintley version is one that besets pretty much every choreographer who encountered the Ashton version in their impressionable youth. They spend so much time avoiding Ashton that they fail to do justice to the score. I have some sympathy with them as there are so much of the choreography seems inevitable. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 24 minutes ago, Darlex said: Regarding the pumpkin thrown into the wings and turning into a coach, yes I can believe it - just as I don't need to see Giselle changing into her costume and make-up for the second act of Giselle to understand that she is transformed into a spirit. Not sure I understand the point being made here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 On 01/06/2021 at 12:01, Dawnstar said: Anyone else jealous that Japan gets Manon & London doesn't? I'd rather they toured the UK than Japan, to be honest. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) Strange that Wendy Ellis Somes should allow such overblown performances of the Ugly Sisters. She has impeccable credentials; Royal Ballet through and through. She inherited the rights to Cinderella from her Principal Royal Ballet dancer husband, who worked with Ashton for many years, danced with Margot Fonteyn, and was in the first cast for many of his ballets. If anyone should know what the original intention of the choreographer was, she should! Edited June 2, 2021 by Fonty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane S Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 4 hours ago, bangorballetboy said: Can you imagine in this day and age that the fairy godmother throws the pumpkin into the wings when it turns into a coach? How about this, then? (Just came across it in one of my old scrapbooks - it's talking about a TV performance in 1960) "But it is in the transformation scenes that televison really comes into its own. In the stage version the Fairy Godmother throws a pumpkin into the wings and out rolls the coach. ... But this time the pumpkin appears to grow in size, becoming bigger and bigger until it bursts into a 10-ft-high tinsel-encrusted coach, lined with nylon fur and sprinkled with stardust, ready to take Cinderella to the ball." That's more like it. Especially the nylon fur. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 hours ago, FLOSS said: I think that the problem with the Bintley version is one that besets pretty much every choreographer who encountered the Ashton version in their impressionable youth. They spend so much time avoiding Ashton that they fail to do justice to the score. I have some sympathy with them as there are so much of the choreography seems inevitable. Going off at a tangent slightly (sorry), this is precisely how I feel about any version of Romeo and Juliet I have seen that was not choreographed by MacMillan. His choreography matches Prokofiev’s score so perfectly and seamlessly that the two could have been thinking with one mind. Anyone else’s choreo just doesn’t flow for me. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Darlex said: Whatever the redesign for Cinderella, let's hope for something charming, in keeping with the style of the ballet. Nothing Disneyesque or high-tech, just something that complements choreography that speaks so eloquently for itself. I think the problem with the current designs is that they were regarded as being rather too Disneyesque, isn't it? The history of the redesign is a bit of a mess: the original designer chosen (possibly several years in advance?) was the one also chosen for Makarova's Sleeping Beauty under Ross Stretton. It was then decided, I understand, (after Stretton had left) that the RB didn't want its two big "fairy" ballets looking that alike, so a new designer had to be sought. IIRC, the sets and costumes are by different designers, so there's a lack of consistency. Personally, I was quite happy with the previous set of designs, which I think were by David Walker? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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