White lodge video audition - making a video

[Lara Eschler]

I am wondering about the physio check. It was hard to get much info out of DS but I understand they checked for hypermobility of the wrists, elbows, etc. Would being hypermobile in those joints raise a red flag for them? My ds is hypermobile in some joints with tight hamstrings, glutes though if he stretches regularly he can achieve a satisfactory range and has flexible hips with natural turnout. Does anyone have more info of what features are definitely considered an issue in terms of suitability for training especially for boys?  

In terms of Elmhurst, I also feel they might prefer a stronger more developed built for boys even for year 7?

[The red shoes]

3 minutes ago, Lara Eschler said:

I am wondering about the physio check. It was hard to get much info out of DS but I understand they checked for hypermobility of the wrists, elbows, etc. Would being hypermobile in those joints raise a red flag for them? My ds is hypermobile in some joints with tight hamstrings, glutes though if he stretches regularly he can achieve a satisfactory range and has flexible hips with natural turnout. Does anyone have more info of what features are definitely considered an issue in terms of suitability for training especially for boys?  

In terms of Elmhurst, I also feel they might prefer a stronger more developed built for boys even for year 7?

My ds is hyper mobile too in nearly all joints. It has its advantages and disadvantages. I don’t think it would “ stop” them from being successful but the schools need to be aware as loose ligaments are more prone to injury if the surrounding muscles etc haven’t got the sufficient strength.  My ds can bend his thumb all the way back to touch his wrist 🙈🤢. 
With turnout they look for the potential so not necessarily where they are at now. Depends on how deep set the joint is in the hip socket. If too deep then minimal turnout . The physio check has been my biggest worry all along for ds.. not his “dance ability “or “technique “as it were , rather has he got all the right equipment!!! 
Not sure about Elmhurst.. but have heard they say there is practically nothing on the physio check that would stop them taking a child they really wanted 🤷🏼‍♀️ . Again two different schools with two different aims/views . Xx 

[Bunny]

37 minutes ago, The red shoes said:

I remember reading on here last year I think that there is a certain “type“ of personality WL & Elmhurst pick ..... eg one likes one type and the other a different type of personality. Anyone else heard this? I know WL is all about image so I would imagine that’s what the interview was for and maybe the questions at the end of audition . Watching how they interact with the other children whilst waiting around etc 

Thats an interesting point! What I got from the interview was that it was about determining that the drive for ballet and wanting to do it came from my son and not another source (suppose they have seen their fair share of pushy parents over the years!) as well as assessing (the best they can, as I’m sure the kids themselves won’t know how they’ll be till they get there!) his suitability for boarding away from home. In terms of personality, who knows! I am sure they wouldn’t turn away an exceptional child based on just personality, but I think they definitely look at how the boys interact with each other etc to see if they feel they would ‘fit well’ into a group, as you say! 

[Bunny]

19 minutes ago, Lara Eschler said:

I am wondering about the physio check. It was hard to get much info out of DS but I understand they checked for hypermobility of the wrists, elbows, etc. Would being hypermobile in those joints raise a red flag for them? My ds is hypermobile in some joints with tight hamstrings, glutes though if he stretches regularly he can achieve a satisfactory range and has flexible hips with natural turnout. Does anyone have more info of what features are definitely considered an issue in terms of suitability for training especially for boys?  

In terms of Elmhurst, I also feel they might prefer a stronger more developed built for boys even for year 7?

My DS is also hypermobile in all of his joints and has a full ‘frog’. The majority of his JA class have some level of hyper mobility. I am sure I read a piece that stated that a very high percentage of the children at WL are hypermobile but those numbers reduce in upper school (most likely

to injuries I would have thought!) I definitely don’t think hyper mobility excludes a child from consideration.

[Bunny]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14705238/ There is some research to suggest that over 90 percent in the school have joint hyper mobility. 

[Dancermom]

I’m sure the physio is very important, I would think there’s a range that they need to come in for potential turnout and also measurements of limbs etc. But if it was just turnout that mattered surely they’d have had to do the frog and other similar exercises in the audition video. I definitely think it’s potential they look for. 

[The red shoes]

1 minute ago, Dancermom said:

I’m sure the physio is very important, I would think there’s a range that they need to come in for potential turnout and also measurements of limbs etc. But if it was just turnout that mattered surely they’d have had to do the frog and other similar exercises in the audition video. I definitely think it’s potential they look for. 

Yes you are right.. it’s the potential of turnout / range in motion which is important and actually bring able to do flat frog does not necessarily mean a child has flat turnout. I teach many children who have worked very hard to achieve frog .. but this is using a whole load of muscles on their legs to get those knees down... this does not mean they have full range in their hip by any means just that they have worked on the strength in their inner thighs, glutes etc to squeeze those knees down. 

[Lara Eschler]

1 minute ago, Dancermom said:

I’m sure the physio is very important, I would think there’s a range that they need to come in for potential turnout and also measurements of limbs etc. But if it was just turnout that mattered surely they’d have had to do the frog and other similar exercises in the audition video. I definitely think it’s potential they look for. 

From what I heard from DS and from the video requirements, they only had to do supine frog but nothing else. In our case I wished there had been more focus on turnout as that is one feature ds has naturally, lol. 

[Dancermom]

1 minute ago, The red shoes said:

Yes you are right.. it’s the potential of turnout / range in motion which is important and actually bring able to do flat frog does not necessarily mean a child has flat turnout. I teach many children who have worked very hard to achieve frog .. but this is using a whole load of muscles on their legs to get those knees down... this does not mean they have full range in their hip by any means just that they have worked on the strength in their inner thighs, glutes etc to squeeze those knees down. 

Ah that’s interesting! Yes it needs to come from the right muscle to be considered turnout I think x

[Dancermom]

1 minute ago, Lara Eschler said:

From what I heard from DS and from the video requirements, they only had to do supine frog but nothing else. In our case I wished there had been more focus on turnout as that is one feature ds has naturally, lol. 

Well I’m sure they’d have looked at it and it would be a tick for him! X

[BalletBoyMumma]

It’s anyone’s guess really. My DS isn’t hypermobile at all so we’ve really worked so hard on flexibility over the last two years of JAs. We are in a strange position where our local school and our other associates see no real benefit in encouraging getting into splits or focusing on stretching for turnout because that should come naturally with strength from the ballet training, and absolutely no to ever doing oversplits (which I’ve heard all of this echoed by dance physios) and they don’t put girls on pointe until fully developed and with strong foot and ankle muscles (so age 14-15) to JAs where it seems flexibility is just as important, if not more than technique and dance ability and seems to be a big part of what WL are looking for (not that you have to be flat in turnout or splits, but they’ll want them there soon).
In our local school if you are hypermobile they encourage strengthening those areas. They don’t see it as good or bad. 

 

Ive noticed DS turn out is nowhere near as ‘good’ as most his age at this level though he has good hip joint mobility (after warning up) and is always knees over toes. If he tries to replicate his peers, he can’t hold it or return to it easily after moving so his dancing looks messy, however his grand battements for example, are held well in his turnout. Our main teacher says this is where he should be and it’ll come in time with strength. His other teacher says encourage turnout. 🤷‍♀️ There are definitely opposing opinions about it so I guess that’s why there will be so much variation in what schools are looking for. 
 

It certainly seems like a fine line to balance. From what I’ve heard, some level of hypermobility might actually be beneficial for acceptance at this stage.
 

I don’t know about others but DS said they didn’t warm up properly before stretching, and they were stood outdoors just before (I don’t know if this is because he’s probably needs and is used to more of a warm up than most though due to not having any hypermobility). 

[Dancermom]

Going back to the personality thing, we have watched a few videos where white lodge students have been interviewed and they do all seem the same ‘type’ of personality. Confident but definitely not overly in your face, a little humble maybe, that came across to me. 

[Legseleven]

In terms of White Lodge and Elmhurst seeming to prefer different student personalities, what was the opinion in terms of what each school preferred? I wonder how that tends to work with those students who are offered places at both schools; perhaps they simply gravitate towards and accept the offer from the school where they felt most at home? Or is the kudos of an RBS place likely to sway any such self-selection? 

[Bunny]

My DS said that the physio used a little device on his calf that beeped when she was turning his leg out so presumably whatever that is was measuring turn out also? My DS also said their group were asked to do ‘froggy’ lying on their stomachs and their backs, but not from sitting. 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Bunny

[The red shoes]

5 minutes ago, BalletBoyMumma said:

It’s anyone’s guess really. My DS isn’t hypermobile at all so we’ve really worked so hard on flexibility over the last two years of JAs. We are in a strange position where our local school and our other associates see no real benefit in encouraging getting into splits or focusing on stretching for turnout because that should come naturally with strength from the ballet training, and absolutely no to ever doing oversplits (which I’ve heard all of this echoed by dance physios) and they don’t put girls on pointe until fully developed and with strong foot and ankle muscles (so age 14-15) to JAs where it seems flexibility is just as important, if not more than technique and dance ability and seems to be a big part of what WL are looking for (not that you have to be flat in turnout or splits, but they’ll want them there soon).
In our local school if you are hypermobile they encourage strengthening those areas. They don’t see it as good or bad. 

 

Ive noticed DS turn out is nowhere near as ‘good’ as most his age at this level though he has good hip joint mobility (after warning up) and is always knees over toes. If he tries to replicate his peers, he can’t hold it or return to it easily after moving so his dancing looks messy, however his grand battements for example, are held well in his turnout. Our main teacher says this is where he should be and it’ll come in time with strength. His other teacher says encourage turnout. 🤷‍♀️ There are definitely opposing opinions about it so I guess that’s why there will be so much variation in what schools are looking for. 
 

It certainly seems like a fine line to balance. From what I’ve heard, some level of hypermobility might actually be beneficial for acceptance at this stage.
 

I don’t know about others but DS said they didn’t warm up properly before stretching, and they were stood outdoors just before (I don’t know if this is because he’s probably needs and is used to more of a warm up than most though due to not having any hypermobility). 

Flexibility and hyper mobility are two different things. 
My ds is hyper mobile BUT he was never flexible until 2 years ago when he worked his little socks off to get all 3 splits and improve on his turnout. 
So they aren’t related to each other in that way.

Totally agree oversplits is not needed and can cause harm and many top schools view this too. 
Ive taught children who have natural flat turnout ... but put them in the centre and watch them do and adage or allegro and there is zero sign of that turnout as they aren’t using the correct muscles to maintain it! Frustrating as ds does not have flat turn out but he works super hard to improve and maintain what he has. 
 

The physio is on potential... Can they train this body... ?will it be prone to injury etc . Is there are good range in hip motion there..? Are their feet good ?

I told Ds to dazzle & dance his heart out in the audition so if his physio wasn’t perfect they may weigh up if it’s worth taking the risk on him... or not ! 
But it’s not just on turnout.. if that was the case why do a90 minute class and include flexibility stretches etc. 
They are looking also at passion in the eyes, drive, a hunger to dance. The ability to pick up the exercises quickly . Musicality & artistry. They need to tick as many boxes as possible xx 

[Lara Eschler]

Will there be an interview at the Elmhurst final? So far they just asked for a reference from the current Head teacher. I think they want to make sure a child will be tolerant, and kind and adaptable as living in a small space with people from all different backgrounds, etc. 

[BalletBoyMumma]

3 minutes ago, The red shoes said:

Flexibility and hyper mobility are two different things. 
My ds is hyper mobile BUT he was never flexible until 2 years ago when he worked his little socks off to get all 3 splits and improve on his turnout. 
So they aren’t related to each other in that way.

Totally agree oversplits is not needed and can cause harm and many top schools view this too. 
Ive taught children who have natural flat turnout ... but put them in the centre and watch them do and adage or allegro and there is zero sign of that turnout as they aren’t using the correct muscles to maintain it! Frustrating as ds does not have flat turn out but he works super hard to improve and maintain what he has. 
 

The physio is on potential... Can they train this body... ?will it be prone to injury etc . Is there are good range in hip motion there..? Are their feet good ?

I told Ds to dazzle & dance his heart out in the audition so if his physio wasn’t perfect they may weigh up if it’s worth taking the risk on him... or not ! 
But it’s not just on turnout.. if that was the case why do a90 minute class and include flexibility stretches etc. 
They are looking also at passion in the eyes, drive, a hunger to dance. The ability to pick up the exercises quickly . Musicality & artistry. They need to tick as many boxes as possible xx 

Thank you. How do they test hypermobility? 

I think that’s all we can ask of them. ✨👏  I’m sure they all did their very best and we have to remember to remind them that if it’s a no, it’s nothing they’ve done wrong or about how they dance, it’s just not fitting what that particular school is looking for right now (it does seem to change year after year). 

 

DS absolutely loved it. He has no regrets at all just was surprised there wasn’t more of a warm up (or just not the level of warming up he’s used to and that there was no improv or balancés, listening to music and explaining how it makes you feel etc so he didn’t feel there was much in what he believes shows off musicality). 
I’m not from a ballet (or music) background though so a little clueless and how he explains it often sounds like another language to me. 😆

 

I am looking forward to earwigging on the discussion he has with his local teacher this week though.  

[Lara Eschler]

1 minute ago, The red shoes said:

Flexibility and hyper mobility are two different things. 
My ds is hyper mobile BUT he was never flexible until 2 years ago when he worked his little socks off to get all 3 splits and improve on his turnout. 
So they aren’t related to each other in that way.

Totally agree oversplits is not needed and can cause harm and many top schools view this too. 
Ive taught children who have natural flat turnout ... but put them in the centre and watch them do and adage or allegro and there is zero sign of that turnout as they aren’t using the correct muscles to maintain it! Frustrating as ds does not have flat turn out but he works super hard to improve and maintain what he has. 
 

The physio is on potential... Can they train this body... ?will it be prone to injury etc . Is there are good range in hip motion there..? Are their feet good ?

I told Ds to dazzle & dance his heart out in the audition so if his physio wasn’t perfect they may weigh up if it’s worth taking the risk on him... or not ! 
But it’s not just on turnout.. if that was the case why do a90 minute class and include flexibility stretches etc. 
They are looking also at passion in the eyes, drive, a hunger to dance. The ability to pick up the exercises quickly . Musicality & artistry. They need to tick as many boxes as possible xx 

Yes, my ds has natural flat static turn out (always had) but needs to learn out to use it and gain functional turn-out. The pike stretch, which you see so many dancers do effortlessly is the hardest thing for him  due to tight hamstrings and he needs to stretch regularly to achieve it. If he has a sudden growth spurt, he  loses the pike stretch temporarily until he stretches again. The middle splits were easier for him to achieve than the right and left splits. 

[Bunny]

4 minutes ago, Lara Eschler said:

Yes, my ds has natural flat static turn out (always had) but needs to learn out to use it and gain functional turn-out. The pike stretch, which you see so many dancers do effortlessly is the hardest thing for him  due to tight hamstrings and he needs to stretch regularly to achieve it. If he has a sudden growth spurt, he  loses the pike stretch temporarily until he stretches again. The middle splits were easier for him to achieve than the right and left splits. 

My DS finds the seated forward bend the trickiest too! He finds it easier standing than sitting. He was pleased that they weren’t asked to demonstrate it in the audition again after having to do it in the video! Ha x

[Lara Eschler]

17 minutes ago, Bunny said:

My DS said that the physio used a little device on his calf that beeped when she was turning his leg out so presumably whatever that is was measuring turn out also? My DS also said their group were asked to do ‘froggy’ lying on their stomachs and their backs, but not from sitting. 

Interesting, will ask ds about little device. What could it be? DS said they only did supine froggy in his group. 

[Bunny]

Just now, Lara Eschler said:

Interesting, will ask ds about little device. What could it be? DS said they only did supine froggy in his group. 

I have no idea! He said it was a little beepy hand held machine 🤷‍♀️ I’m not from a ballet background either so have zero clue! x

[The red shoes]

6 minutes ago, Lara Eschler said:

Yes, my ds has natural flat static turn out (always had) but needs to learn out to use it and gain functional turn-out. The pike stretch, which you see so many dancers do effortlessly is the hardest thing for him  due to tight hamstrings and he needs to stretch regularly to achieve it. If he has a sudden growth spurt, he  loses the pike stretch temporarily until he stretches again. The middle splits were easier for him to achieve than the right and left splits. 

Yes my ds is exactly opposite ... hamstrings are good but middle splits isn’t near flat yet.. a work in progress lol 

[BalletBoyMumma]

To anyone those still due to go in, please practice everything - the format may change (there was definitely improv last year as we know a few people who auditioned and they said to expect improv). Most importantly, enjoy it! You will have a wonderful time. 😊 

 

It’s interesting how the information comes out in drips and drabs and we have to piece the puzzle together - please don’t take this as a what happens as it’s just a very blurry recount. Turns out he waited outside and then went back in for stretches (and wished they’d been allowed to do the usual splits prep exercise he’s used to as apparently it was cold outside). And DS said yes to the funny beepy device too. No idea what that is. 
 

[Bunny]

Just now, BalletBoyMumma said:

To anyone those still due to go in, please practice everything - the format may change (there was definitely improv last year as we know a few people who auditioned and they said to expect improv). Most importantly, enjoy it! You will have a wonderful time. 😊 

 

It’s interesting how the information comes out in drips and drabs and we have to piece the puzzle together - please don’t take this as a what happens as it’s just a very blurry recount. Turns out he waited outside and then went back in for stretches (and wished they’d been allowed to do the usual splits prep exercise he’s used to as apparently it was cold outside). And DS said yes to the funny beepy device too. No idea what that is. 
 

I was surprised when my DS said no improv! I wonder if they picked up on their musicality from the videos and felt that all of the boys they took to finals were all good in that area so didn’t need to see it again? Mind you I can’t even remember what they did in the video now, some balances and gallops....not sure that would be enough to demonstrate it! 😂

[Dancermom]

3 minutes ago, Bunny said:

I was surprised when my DS said no improv! I wonder if they picked up on their musicality from the videos and felt that all of the boys they took to finals were all good in that area so didn’t need to see it again? Mind you I can’t even remember what they did in the video now, some balances and gallops....not sure that would be enough to demonstrate it! 😂

I think you can always tell musicality by if they’re in time with the music and how they’re dancing. I think the improv  tests musicality but not just that as they can see that from the class too. I think it’s to see how well they adapt and if they deal with it well too ! X

Edited March 15, 2021 by Dancermom

[BalletBoyMumma]

6 minutes ago, The red shoes said:

Yes my ds is exactly opposite ... hamstrings are good but middle splits isn’t near flat yet.. a work in progress lol 

Another with tight hamstrings here - and can get into front/back splits one day but a few days of no stretching and he’s nowhere near in splits again. It’s constant work. 

 

They are definitely all a work in progress. If they were perfect already they’d probably have a short ballet journey. They are hopefully all in this for the long haul. Beautiful, strong dancers one day. 💙 ✨👏 

[BalletBoyMumma]

4 minutes ago, Dancermom said:

I think you can always tell musicality by if they’re in time with the music and how they’re dancing. I think the improv  tests musicality but not just that as they can see that from the class too. I think it’s to see how well they adapt and if they deal with it well too ! X

Thank you. That’s good to know. Hopefully!  

[BalletBoyMumma]

7 hours ago, Lara Eschler said:

Interesting, will ask ds about little device. What could it be? DS said they only did supine froggy in his group. 

A digital goniometer I think. To test turnout range in the hip maybe for those who don’t already display flat turnout? (I’m just guessing here though based on DS explanation and that apparently not everyone had it - in reality it could be anything as he’s quite sketchy in descriptions). 

 

I really hope we’ll be able to get some sort of feedback. 

 

 

[Lara Eschler]

32 minutes ago, BalletBoyMumma said:

A digital goniometer I think. To test turnout range in the hip maybe for those who don’t already display flat turnout? (I’m just guessing here though based on DS explanation and that apparently not everyone had it - in reality it could be anything as he’s quite sketchy in descriptions). 

 

I really hope we’ll be able to get some sort of feedback. 

 

 

I am a bit concerned he did not have it. Also some boys went into 2 separate physio rooms? I think your ds was in the same group, did they just do frogs on their back? Or maybe my ds was not concentrating and missed the exercise entirely?

 

[The red shoes]

1 minute ago, Lara Eschler said:

I am a bit concerned he did not have it. Also some boys went into 2 separate physio rooms? I think your ds was in the same group, did they just do frogs on their back? Or maybe my ds was not concentrating and missed the exercise entirely?

 

Our group just did frogs on back but that was in the actual audition along with splits etc . 
 

physio was two rooms. First Lady ( who was in an awful hurry according to my ds though they were the last group so probs desperate to get home) looked at him in different positions eg plié in 1st, tendus to the side. Facing front in parallel etc etc and she made notes. Then he went through to next room where he was pulled about in the bed and yes, that strange contraption was put around his shin/ calf too to see degrees of turnout. 
 

Then in audition the first thing they did was see them do all the positions again!! Which made me think were they ruining out who to not bother looking at for the rest of the ballet class 🤷🏼‍♀️

[ponklemum]

1 minute ago, The red shoes said:

Our group just did frogs on back but that was in the actual audition along with splits etc . 
 

physio was two rooms. First Lady ( who was in an awful hurry according to my ds though they were the last group so probs desperate to get home) looked at him in different positions eg plié in 1st, tendus to the side. Facing front in parallel etc etc and she made notes. Then he went through to next room where he was pulled about in the bed and yes, that strange contraption was put around his shin/ calf too to see degrees of turnout. 
 

Then in audition the first thing they did was see them do all the positions again!! Which made me think were they ruining out who to not bother looking at for the rest of the ballet class 🤷🏼‍♀️

My ds never went into 2 rooms for physio. He said there were 2 women in the one room and he did various positions and the hypermobility checks and that was it xx 

[The red shoes]

7 minutes ago, The red shoes said:

Our group just did frogs on back but that was in the actual audition along with splits etc . 
 

physio was two rooms. First Lady ( who was in an awful hurry according to my ds though they were the last group so probs desperate to get home) looked at him in different positions eg plié in 1st, tendus to the side. Facing front in parallel etc etc and she made notes. Then he went through to next room where he was pulled about in the bed and yes, that strange contraption was put around his shin/ calf too to see degrees of turnout. 
 

Then in audition the first thing they did was see them do all the positions again!! Which made me think were they ruling out who to not bother looking at for the rest of the ballet class 🤷🏼‍♀️

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by The red shoes
Spelling

[Lara Eschler]

5 minutes ago, The red shoes said:

Our group just did frogs on back but that was in the actual audition along with splits etc . 
 

physio was two rooms. First Lady ( who was in an awful hurry according to my ds though they were the last group so probs desperate to get home) looked at him in different positions eg plié in 1st, tendus to the side. Facing front in parallel etc etc and she made notes. Then he went through to next room where he was pulled about in the bed and yes, that strange contraption was put around his shin/ calf too to see degrees of turnout. 
 

Then in audition the first thing they did was see them do all the positions again!! Which made me think were they ruining out who to not bother looking at for the rest of the ballet class 🤷🏼‍♀️

He did say his shin was manipulated while laying face down. Maybe he did not realize there was a gadget?  All your dss seem much better at recounting the event.