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Royal Ballet dancers at Athelhampton House on 5th & 6th September


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Going off at a tangent, I know, but I have never understood why, when a company gives a choreographer a commission, or a Director gives him/herself one, the rights are not automatically in the ownership of the said company rather than the individual who was, presumably, paid handsomely for the creation.

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8 minutes ago, capybara said:

Going off at a tangent, I know, but I have never understood why, when a company gives a choreographer a commission, or a Director gives him/herself one, the rights are not automatically in the ownership of the said company rather than the individual who was, presumably, paid handsomely for the creation.

 

That's something I've always wondered too.  

 

Someone once said to me that it depends on how the contract for the commission is written (which would make sense) and the contract may include things like the expected number of performances the work is licensed for.  Then there may be the complication of other companies wanting to take in the work ... would the "owning" company be responsible for mounting it or the choreographer.  Then again, if the company owns the work would they be able to make changes to it?  Would the choreographer want his name taken off it (as you sometimes see with films if there is a dispute).  It's a minefield.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

 It's a minefield.


No doubt of that - even without the music and other rights added in.
But, at times like these, when companies and dancers need to select ‘do-able’ pieces and bring in all the revenue they can, the arrangement comes into sharp focus as a possible impediment. If I were so fortunate as to own any ballets, I would certainly be wanting to afford maximum freedom with regard to things like filming and live streaming right now, neither of which can mar the artistic integrity of the piece in question.

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10 minutes ago, capybara said:

 If I were so fortunate as to own any ballets, I would certainly be wanting to afford maximum freedom with regard to things like filming and live streaming right now, neither of which can mar the artistic integrity of the piece in question.

 

Absolutely Capybara!  Me too!

 

I think with Pennsylvania Ballet's streamings a couple of the productions must be owned by the company or Angel Corella and these still seem to be available to view if you have the password.  The others were only available for the stated time.  But even that is better than nothing.

 

BRB have just released a clip of Carl Davies talking about his score for Cyrano with a couple of excerpts that look as though they may be from a performance filmed for archive.  I know these films were not done for public consumption but if they are of a reasonable standard (the Stuttgart streamings spring to mind) why could they not be streamed in full, even if behind a paywall?  I would very nearly kill to see Cyrano again.  (Having said that I would very nearly kill to see it back in the rep - I could think of a couple of Cyranos I would like to see from within the current roster...).

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2 hours ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

Not blaming or criticising MGH for this, but I sometimes think this is just the RB default position. ("Computer says no.")

 

Isn't Anna Rose O'Sullivan doing the Dying Swan? Surely that at least is out of copyright? Maybe we'll see some footage of that.


I’m afraid you’re mistaken on the RB point (both in this case and generally).  MGH had to approach the rights holders of each (existing) ballet to be able to perform the extracts (and rights hadn’t actually been granted for everything when the programme was first announced!).

 

As you say, The Dying Swan is no longer subject to copyright and we have already had some video of AROS rehearsing.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jan McNulty said:

Someone once said to me that it depends on how the contract for the commission is written (which would make sense) and the contract may include things like the expected number of performances the work is licensed for.  Then there may be the complication of other companies wanting to take in the work ... would the "owning" company be responsible for mounting it or the choreographer.  Then again, if the company owns the work would they be able to make changes to it?  Would the choreographer want his name taken off it (as you sometimes see with films if there is a dispute).  It's a minefield.

 

It is a minefield. There are parallels with writers/copyright, except that I suppose ballets are so much more collaborative than books/novels. (I know books have to be edited/published/promoted, but a ballet is actually created on and with other people.) A mediocre work can look much better if brilliantly danced and with ample resources of various kinds; but then again, poor collaborators can mar what would otherwise have been a successful work. So I suppose it's a question of the extent to which a choreographer would be willing to sign away their rights/future income in respect of the work in return for an initial payment.

 

I also wonder if dancers necessarily want to be filmed when dancing in potentially less than ideal circumstances (and at the moment, after a very long break from performing).

Edited by bridiem
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11 minutes ago, bridiem said:

I also wonder if dancers necessarily want to be filmed when dancing in potentially less than ideal circumstances (and at the moment, after a very long break from performing).

 

I think that all the footage so many dancers are putting up on social media suggests that they are craving to dance and to be seen dancing.

 

20 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

MGH had to approach the rights holders of each (existing) ballet to be able to perform the extracts.

 

I was sure that she did and that makes her endeavour all the more remarkable.😍🔥

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It is a great achievement. Does anyone know if there is a way of donating something to the fund for those (like me)  who can't get there? It would be nice to be able to contribute something to the effort.

Edited by J_New
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Just commenting on the copyright question - it is not only the choreography and music that are under copyright, it can be that other aspects such as set design, lighting design, costumes and dramaturgy belong to different people!  

 

A good example is the what happens if a dance school wants to do something from Disney for their own school show, it happened to a teacher I know recently.  Say you want to do the number "Step in Time" the chimney sweep dance from Mary Poppins.  You can pay PRS so you can use the music, but you cannot use the concept or costumes of the chimney sweeps! 

 

When I was working professionally as a dancer at an Opera House in France, we dancers wanted our own choreography evening.  The AD was happy with it, so a delegation of dancers (I was one) went to speak to the Directeur General.  He agreed and said that we could choose whatever music we wanted, so long as it was out of copyright.  We went ahead and it was a great success! 

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1 hour ago, J_New said:

It is a great achievement. Does anyone know if there is a way of donating something to the fund for those (like me)  who can't get there? It would be nice to be able to contribute something to the effort.

 

I've also been looking to donate and can't find an opportunity. The website only says the rather nebulous "TICKET REVENUES WILL BE DONATED TO THE ARTS" underlined but with no link and no specifics. I don't think there is anything dodgy going on but would be happier knowing where the money is going. Perhaps they just haven't gotten that far yet?

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3 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:


I’m afraid you’re mistaken on the RB point (both in this case and generally).  MGH had to approach the rights holders of each (existing) ballet to be able to perform the extracts (and rights hadn’t actually been granted for everything when the programme was first announced!).

 

 

 

That's not quite what I meant: I'd assumed that the rights holders would need to be approached for performance rights but I question whether the RB routinely asks about broadcast rights unless a broadcast is planned. If they don't, maybe it should become part of the standard negotiation, though obviously there will be exceptions (for example the Cranko Estate).

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1 hour ago, MJW said:

 

Great to see Meaghan's efforts (and the performances themselves) shared with a wider audience.


Agree, but they do need to be more up front about where the money raised will go.

The Royal Ballet School has advertised the event to Friends so it appears that they might be a beneficiary as well as the ROH which was mentioned initially.
A link to donate could have been included to advantage in the ST article.

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52 minutes ago, capybara said:


Agree, but they do need to be more up front about where the money raised will go.

The Royal Ballet School has advertised the event to Friends so it appears that they might be a beneficiary as well as the ROH which was mentioned initially.
A link to donate could have been included to advantage in the ST article.

 

I agree with that. 

 

Meaghan is on Times Radio this evening at 18:15 so perhaps something might be mentioned then. 

 

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Super interview from Meaghan...the only blot was the interviewer being seemingly unable to pronounce "Hinkis".

Meaghan indicated she was still working on the possibility of filming some of the pieces. Also a mention of hopefully getting something for a live audience at the ROH by Christmas...such as Nutcracker.

She referred to proceeds going to an arts charity but didn't name it.

 

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So no more information about making a donation then ...

 

Ah - I've just found a JustGiving page for her, and the charity is 'Acting for Others'. Could that be the one?

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44 minutes ago, J_New said:

So no more information about making a donation then ...

 

Ah - I've just found a JustGiving page for her, and the charity is 'Acting for Others'. Could that be the one?


That JustGivomg page relates to the video they did a couple of months ago to the new Rolling Stones song (a popular beat combo, m’lud).

 

When this gala was announced, it was said to be supporting the “Royal Opera House Charity Fund (in other words, the ROH, which you can support by going to their webpage).

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On 29/08/2020 at 10:42, Jan McNulty said:

 

Absolutely Capybara!  Me too!

 

I think with Pennsylvania Ballet's streamings a couple of the productions must be owned by the company or Angel Corella and these still seem to be available to view if you have the password.  The others were only available for the stated time.  But even that is better than nothing.

 

BRB have just released a clip of Carl Davies talking about his score for Cyrano with a couple of excerpts that look as though they may be from a performance filmed for archive.  I know these films were not done for public consumption but if they are of a reasonable standard (the Stuttgart streamings spring to mind) why could they not be streamed in full, even if behind a paywall?  I would very nearly kill to see Cyrano again.  (Having said that I would very nearly kill to see it back in the rep - I could think of a couple of Cyranos I would like to see from within the current roster...).

 

 

Calling Tyrone and Brandon.  We need you both now!  Can I put in an additional request for Matthias as Cristian?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Two Pigeons said:

Sorry, that should be Christian 

 

I could see Mathias as Cyrano.  It would not be unprecedented to see him in both roles (Iain Mackay danced both).

 

I don't know about you TP but I would see Brandon as Christian and Tyrone in both roles.  I could also see Lachlan and Max as Cyrano (with Max a possible Cyrano too).

 

I couldn't choose my Roxannes with such a wealth of talent but probably Celine as my first choice.

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Back to RB dancers at Athelhampton ....

 

Weather looking fine for Saturday 🤞, thought not warm.

 

Fab dancers including Marianela Nuñez dancing 3 solos worth it for that alone IMO.   Others are bonus!

 

A party of 3 of us are going to the Saturday 5/9 performance sitting in a zone/pod (whatever that is) in the cheapest seats.   If anyone is coming and would like to join us, please dm me.   

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On 31/08/2020 at 12:32, Jan McNulty said:

 

I could see Mathias as Cyrano.  It would not be unprecedented to see him in both roles (Iain Mackay danced both).

 

I don't know about you TP but I would see Brandon as Christian and Tyrone in both roles.  I could also see Lachlan and Max as Cyrano (with Max a possible Cyrano too).

 

I couldn't choose my Roxannes with such a wealth of talent but probably Celine as my first choice.

 

14 hours ago, alison said:

(And you might want to use some surnames, for those readers who aren't so familiar with the BRB dancers :) )

 

[Runs, ducks and hides]

 

Or were you possibly being deliberately provocative, Jan McNulty?

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