Dance transmissions on TV you'd like to see again

[penelopesimpson]

Of course we don’t know but we DO know what Kobborg and Cojocaru have said since, clearly documented.  As I have said before - and doubtless  will again - it shouldn’t matter to us, the audience.  We see only the performances on which we base our liking for artistes.  This is theatre, not politics.  A formal marking of the departure of the leading ballet couple from the top UK ballet company should have been appropriately recognised for the audience.  There wasn’t anyone there that night who didn’t share that view.

 

For the same reason, I have no interest in what may or may not have gone on with Liam Scarlett.  I see only the work of the artiste and I applaud or deride it accordingly.  It is difficult to see how this can be denied.  
 

Equally, I find it baffling that anybody could consider that an artist at their peak should simply move aside for younger talent.  Notice you don’t mention that?????? 
 

Anyone going to tell Marianella her time is up?    No, thought not.

 

[Jan McNulty]

1 hour ago, penelopesimpson said:

Of course we don’t know but we DO know what Kobborg and Cojocaru have said since, clearly documented.  As I have said before - and doubtless  will again - it shouldn’t matter to us, the audience.  We see only the performances on which we base our liking for artistes.  This is theatre, not politics.  A formal marking of the departure of the leading ballet couple from the top UK ballet company should have been appropriately recognised for the audience.  There wasn’t anyone there that night who didn’t share that view.

 

For the same reason, I have no interest in what may or may not have gone on with Liam Scarlett.  I see only the work of the artiste and I applaud or deride it accordingly.  It is difficult to see how this can be denied.  
 

Equally, I find it baffling that anybody could consider that an artist at their peak should simply move aside for younger talent.  Notice you don’t mention that?????? 
 

Anyone going to tell Marianella her time is up?    No, thought not.

 

I was answering a specific point about a (non) valedictory performance.

 

BTW from my early exposure to ballet watching I always thought LFB (now ENB) were the premiere company.  You can still see Cojocaru at ENB where they also have some amazing dancers and, nowadays, also a fabulous rep.  Come to think of it - same with BRB and NB and I assume with Scottish Ballet too!

 

To get back to the subject of the thread I would love C4 to broadcast the film of Koen Onzia, Kevin Richmond and Matz Skoog dancing Christopher Bruce’s Swansong and Rambert dancing his Ghost Dances.  I had them both on video but not on DVD.

[Pulcinella]

Going even further back I would love to see the Ballet for All series which was on ITV but only broadcast in the London area so I never saw it.

[loveclassics]

I thought the BFI was saving some TV programmes which were considered worthy of preservation?  Possibly it would be worth finding out what ballet and dance-related stuff they are keeping.  Bluebird posted about their viewing booth on the South Bank some time ago.  Obviously we can't visit it now but perhaps it might consider putting something online?

 

Linda

[Guest]

1 hour ago, penelopesimpson said:

Cojocaru and Kobborg have made it clear in interviews that they thought their departure was badly handled.  In any case, this is about more than Management favourites - there is surely a duty to fans?  We are not sheep taking our cue from a Management as to which artiste is in or out.  If you had been there that night you would have seen for yourself the strength of feeling.  A rare misstep from KOH who appeared petty.

 

i must take issue with your view of the succession.  Losing an internationally acclaimed star, for many of us the greatest ballerina of her generation, surely merits more than a ‘thank goodness she’s gone?’  I love our new cadre of Principals whose journey to the top it has been a privilege to watch, but their accession did not mean we had to use an established star.  Using your method, Bonelli should have gone years ago, and Acosta certainly overstayed his welcome, ditto Galeazzi and Yanowsky and Rojo all older than Cojocaru.  And what is Nunez thinking of cluttering up the Principals dressing room when there is fresh meat available.  As for Morera, well, taxi for her.

 

Grrh

Penelope,  I have no insider knowledge and I can't remember very well what happened to them in the past, even from an onlookers point of view. Today, however, Cojocaru appears to be happy  at Hamburg with Neumeier and also at ENB where she can dance choreographies from Forsythe, Khan and Ochoa among others (although Tamara obviously needs to try a bit harder if it is to be considered a premier company.) Perhaps we should just be happy for Cojocaru that she is  now in a place where she feels content. I wasn't suggesting that she and Kobborg should have left the Royal Ballet when they did. I was merely thinking that when one dancer leaves, it gives the space and opportunity for another. Interesting that in your list of dancers who may have outstayed their welcome there is no mention of Watson - he is, after all, the same generation as many of those you have mentioned.

[Fonty]

13 hours ago, penelopesimpson said:

Of course we don’t know but we DO know what Kobborg and Cojocaru have said since, clearly documented.  

 

I remember some time ago this topic came up in a discussion, and my post stating what Cojocaru said was moderated!  Even though if you do a search on line, there is a link to interviews she gave stating in no uncertain terms the reasons why she left.  

I agree about the Southbank show on Bussell and Durante at the start of their careers.  That would be fascinating to watch.  

[Lizbie1]

1 hour ago, Fonty said:

I remember some time ago this topic came up in a discussion, and my post stating what Cojocaru said was moderated!  Even though if you do a search on line, there is a link to interviews she gave stating in no uncertain terms the reasons why she left.  

 

But, crucially, we don't know the other side of the story, and probably never will do unless Mason or O'Hare decide to spill the beans, which would be out of character. You don't convict someone without listening to the case for the defence; and for those who think "well let's hear it!" - IMO the discretion displayed by the main ROH players is to their credit.

[Fonty]

17 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

But, crucially, we don't know the other side of the story, and probably never will do unless Mason or O'Hare decide to spill the beans, which would be out of character. You don't convict someone without listening to the case for the defence; and for those who think "well let's hear it!" - IMO the discretion displayed by the main ROH players is to their credit.

 

I think when a relatively young principal  of a world class ballet company suddenly leaves with very little notice, stating publicly that they were very unhappy about what was said to them, it is rather unsatisfactory that the new management did not make some sort of statement.  Cojocaru joined the company while she was still a teenager, and became principal while she was barely 20 (I think?).  Her rise within the company was meteoric, which makes the manner in which she left, no matter what the reason, upsetting for her fans.  

[bangorballetboy]

Let's get back to the topic of the thread please.

[Fonty]

On 27/03/2020 at 13:11, bangorballetboy said:

Let's get back to the topic of the thread please.

 

I was simply answering a point made by an earlier poster.

 

Who fancies watching Fonteyn and Nureyev in Romeo and Juliet again?  I know when I watched a clip of it a while ago, I was fascinated by how much faster a lot of the music seemed to be, compared with what we are used to now.

 

In fact, there used to be quite a lot of film of Fonteyn in various things.  I remember going to see An Evening at the Royal Ballet a couple of times at the cinema.  No idea what I saw, though. 

[penelopesimpson]

On 27/03/2020 at 02:21, Darlex said:

Penelope,  I have no insider knowledge and I can't remember very well what happened to them in the past, even from an onlookers point of view. Today, however, Cojocaru appears to be happy  at Hamburg with Neumeier and also at ENB where she can dance choreographies from Forsythe, Khan and Ochoa among others (although Tamara obviously needs to try a bit harder if it is to be considered a premier company.) Perhaps we should just be happy for Cojocaru that she is  now in a place where she feels content. I wasn't suggesting that she and Kobborg should have left the Royal Ballet when they did. I was merely thinking that when one dancer leaves, it gives the space and opportunity for another. Interesting that in your list of dancers who may have outstayed their welcome there is no mention of Watson - he is, after all, the same generation as many of those you have mentioned.

Take your point Darlex.

 

As people will know, I am pretty much at the top of the list of Ed Watson's fan club.  I didn't include him because I mentioned him so many times and sound like a broken record.  And nobody else seems to ask which I find strange because if Muntagirov or Ball or Campbell vanished, these boards would be awash with complaint!

 

Okay, I know he was due to appear in Dante (I have booked for 3 performances without even knowing if it is great or the other thing...), but he has been off stage now for two and a half years and nobody ever says anything.  Why?  I have absolutely no idea, but it does seem that he is not a favourite at ROH which surprises me.  Bonelli is winding down but still dances major roles, ditto Soares, but Watson, well, he had to withdraw from Mayerling and then he might as well have been on the moon for all we heard of him.

 

Its particularly hard because he is evidently a very private person so we learn little from Instagram or Twitter.  I wouldn't change that but I do think management need to understand and respond to the very real relationships that artistes build with their fans.  As another poster has said, Cojocaru was a wonderchild - then she was simply no more.  I really don't care much about what went on wtih management, but I do care that management seem not to recognise that they have some sort of duty to their fans.    The same is true of Watson.  We don't need daily updates on his injury or to be privy to what he does with his days, but it would have been nice to have had some indication that he hadn't retired but was.....??????????what exactly?

[Jan McNulty]

I’d really like to see the documentary about Lowry that featured the creation of A Simple Man again and the series by Peter Schaufuss (Dancer) and Natalia Makarova (Ballerina) shown again.

 

As a very new ballet watcher Dancer introduced me to the delights of the Bournonville style that I still greatly admire.

[bridiem]

8 hours ago, penelopesimpson said:

Take your point Darlex.

 

As people will know, I am pretty much at the top of the list of Ed Watson's fan club.  I didn't include him because I mentioned him so many times and sound like a broken record.  And nobody else seems to ask which I find strange because if Muntagirov or Ball or Campbell vanished, these boards would be awash with complaint!

 

Okay, I know he was due to appear in Dante (I have booked for 3 performances without even knowing if it is great or the other thing...), but he has been off stage now for two and a half years and nobody ever says anything.  Why?  I have absolutely no idea, but it does seem that he is not a favourite at ROH which surprises me.  Bonelli is winding down but still dances major roles, ditto Soares, but Watson, well, he had to withdraw from Mayerling and then he might as well have been on the moon for all we heard of him.

 

Its particularly hard because he is evidently a very private person so we learn little from Instagram or Twitter.  I wouldn't change that but I do think management need to understand and respond to the very real relationships that artistes build with their fans.  As another poster has said, Cojocaru was a wonderchild - then she was simply no more.  I really don't care much about what went on wtih management, but I do care that management seem not to recognise that they have some sort of duty to their fans.    The same is true of Watson.  We don't need daily updates on his injury or to be privy to what he does with his days, but it would have been nice to have had some indication that he hadn't retired but was.....??????????what exactly?

 

I do agree that it's really frustrating if dancers aren't cast much (or at all) with no explanation or if they leave the company without fanfare. But there are so many reasons why this could happen, on both the part of the company and the dancer. Directors must have the freedom to cast as they see fit (even if we don't always agree with them!), injuries may linger, dancers may not be mentally ready after an injury, there may be all sorts of problems going on about which it would not be appropriate to go public, and dancers own preferences have to be allowed for. I'm not suggesting any of these things in Watson's case - I have no idea what's been happening with him. The only thing I would say about him is that he's not a typical classical dancer and there have always been a lot of roles in which he hasn't been cast, he's nearing the end of his career, and he had what was evidently a serious injury. So his absence has more potential explanations than would be the case if Muntagirov/Ball/Campbell weren't appearing at the moment. (And think of Tierney Heap - the only reason I know she was injured, off for best part of two years, and has only just come back, is through this forum and her Instagram account. And she's one of my favourite dancers. I know she's not a principal, but she's a rising star.) With Cojocaru and Kobborg there were clearly serious problems when they left with almost no notice, so I can see why any public pronouncements could have been difficult. And I have no idea where the rights and wrongs of that situation lie; it was just an awful way for them to go.

 

Having said all that, I don't see why a little more information couldn't be given out at times. These are world class dancers, and promoted as such (quite rightly), and if you 'create' personalities that brings responsibilities with it. It's a balancing act, and I do think that the ROH sometimes errs too much on the side of silence.

 

Anyway I look forward very much to the time when we can see any or all of these wonderful dancers, in all companies, again.

Edited March 29, 2020 by bridiem

[alison]

On ‎27‎/‎03‎/‎2020 at 13:11, bangorballetboy said:

Let's get back to the topic of the thread please.

 

[Fonty]

8 hours ago, Jan McNulty said:

I’d really like to see the documentary about Lowry that featured the creation of A Simple Man again and the series by Peter Schaufuss (Dancer) and Natalia Makarova (Ballerina) shown again.

 

As a very new ballet watcher Dancer introduced me to the delights of the Bournonville style that I still greatly admire.

 

I can't remember if I ever saw the Schaufuss one, although I would be surprised if I hadn't.  The Makarova programme was very good.  Was that the one where she was talking about dancing with Nureyev, and described him as a "very difficult" partner?  

[jm365]

I d on't think so.  There was also a portrait documentary about her, directed by Derek Bailey, some years earlier - it might have been in that.  And that would certainly be another programme well worth repeating.

[bridiem]

Can't remember if it's been mentioned yet, but 'All the Superlatives', the documentary about Anthony Dowell shown in ?1977. I know it's on YouTube but last time I looked it was terrible quality (which also makes me wonder if legit). I'd never seen any live ballet when I saw this and it opened up for me the whole world of beauty that is ballet.

[Fonty]

Well, I have just spent a very happy hour and a half watching this programme, with Fonteyn narrating her own life story from the farm in Panama.  I have seen bits and pieces before, but never the whole programme.  It is great to hear her speaking in such a natural way, even though she gives a very airbrushed account of some of the major events of her life.   .  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95N4J7B2XWI

 

 

I don't think I have seen the small contribution from Nureyev before, talking about his first dance experiences with Fonteyn. 

 

And can anybody watch the end of Salut D'Amour, as Fonteyn leaves the stage for the final time, smiling radiantly on the arm of Ashton, without getting a tear in the eye?  I certainly can't.  It gets me every single time. 😥

I read the comments underneath as well.  Some of them are quite extraordinary.  

Edited March 30, 2020 by Fonty

[Lizbie1]

59 minutes ago, Fonty said:

And can anybody watch the end of Salut D'Amour, as Fonteyn leaves the stage for the final time, smiling radiantly on the arm of Ashton, without getting a tear in the eye?  I certainly can't.  It gets me every single time. 😥

 

They showed a projection of it at the end of the ROH Fonteyn gala last year - there were very few dry eyes in the house, I'd wager.

[Two Pigeons]

16 hours ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

They showed a projection of it at the end of the ROH Fonteyn gala last year - there were very few dry eyes in the house, I'd wager.

 

 

I was there and find myself in bits EVERY time I see that clip.

 

Utterly magical.

[David]

It seems only a short time ago that we were debating the merits of blu-ray over DVD and I was arguing that both formats were old technology and that the future is streaming. Also we have been debating the failure of the BBC to open up its archives and show old programmes and productions.

 

The argument has always been that this is not possible because of copyrights and rights.

 

Suddenly all this is changing. Everywhere companies are live-streaming, in some cases enabled to do so because all concerned have waived their rights and we are starting to see a wealth of material that we had feared we would never see again so much so that I am able to circulate a link every day around the family for all kinds of streamed material. Here for example is one I am especially pleased to have - a copy of the South Bank Show from 20yrs ago in 1997 covering the creation of Matthew Bourne’s Cinderella and especially valuable as a reminder of Sarah Wildor, together with her partner and future husband, both on loan from the Royal Ballet for the project at the time:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWHlVEYGDcc&feature=emb_logo

 

 

Bourne is promising other goodies including a BBC4 documentary and others such as for example the National Theatre, the BerlinPhilharmonic and Andrew Lloyd Webber are being equally generous with the material in their archives.

 

Others, and I don’t need to name them, are being much less forthcoming, streaming old productions that are already available on disk.

 

Can things ever be the same again I wonder? So many families no longer have DVD or Blu-Ray players or have consigned them to the attic. I’m guessing that organisations, forced to turn to alternative technologies in the present crisis must already be thinking about the implications for the future. If they aren’t, they should be!

Edited April 4, 2020 by David

[Jeannette]

Thanks, David. As a DVD collector and general collector of ballet on film (3,000+ titles on specially-built shelves taking up three walls in the guest bedroom), I’ll be darned if I abandon my collection! Which  leads me to...oh, what a smile you brought to my face by pointing out how many companies are being less than forthcoming by oh-so-generously offering “free streams” of performances that many of us acquired years ago. Ok, I totally understand how these generous streams are a bonanza to novices to the art. BRAVO to that...it’s important to build the audience.