La Scala (and other non-UK theatres/companies) closed due to coronavirus

[alison]

It was reported on the news tonight that La Scala is closed because of the coronavirus outbreak.  I don't know how much the ballet is affected by this, and in fact, what their schedule is at all.  Do they alternate performances with the opera as they do at Covent Garden?

[BeauxArts]

I believe they do. 

[Naomi M]

National Ballet of Japan (New National Theatre Tokyo) has cancelled two remaining performances of Manon due to Coronavirus outbreak, as well as the National Ballet Academy performances and opera performances. Luckily I could see a phenomenal performance with Vadim Muntagirov as guest sith Yui Yonezawa before the theatre closed down .  

https://www.nntt.jac.go.jp/english/news/all/notice-performances-from-february-28-to-march-15-cancelled.html

 

 

[alison]

Oh dear.  When you think about how much these dancers move about, I hope they won't catch anything.

[Xandra Newman]

It is very worrisome as some principals do travel to guest abroad like Muntagirov in Tokyo, or they travel for pleasure. I saw on social media that Francesca Hayward was in Milan over the past weekend to watch a fashion show, the epicentre of the outbreak in Italy. I wonder what measures the ROH has put in place for travelling opera singers and RB dancers.

[Jam Dancer]

On 27/02/2020 at 06:47, Xandra Newman said:

It is very worrisome as some principals do travel to guest abroad like Muntagirov in Tokyo, or they travel for pleasure. I saw on social media that Francesca Hayward was in Milan over the past weekend to watch a fashion show, the epicentre of the outbreak in Italy. I wonder what measures the ROH has put in place for travelling opera singers and RB dancers.

Milan the epicenter? Oh right ... so Milan fashion week was held in the epicenter of the outbreak? Had no idea ...  I’m not sure how helpful this is but I understand that people will voice their concerns. One can’t be be too careful if travelling  but I wish people would err on the side of caution and not add to the hysteria already setting in. It’s all about perspective and getting a bit more information about a particular context before shouting from the rooftops. 

[bangorballetboy]

I'm getting really fed up with people spreading misinformation on this forum.  Milan is not the epicentre of the outbreak in Italy.  It is in the area where government advice is to self-isolate if you show flu-like symptoms but it is not a city where infections have (as yet) been picked up; it is not one of the listed "lockdown" towns.

 

Misinformation is dangerous.

[annamicro]

17 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

I'm getting really fed up with people spreading misinformation on this forum.  Milan is not the epicentre of the outbreak in Italy.  It is in the area where government advice is to self-isolate if you show flu-like symptoms but it is not a city where infections have (as yet) been picked up; it is not one of the listed "lockdown" towns.

 

Misinformation is dangerous.

In the whole Milan district (more than 3 million people) there are at the moment 15 (fifteen) POSITIVE (so not necessarily ill) subjects. Italy did more than 10.000 tests (when Germany barely was at 1000) and most of the positives are totally asymptomatic (in the most impacted areas probably they are testing also cats and dogs).

 

All the deads were having important comorbidities and were mainly over 80, so an extremely fragile population. A lady was tested post mortem, occurred for myocardial infarction, because she presented also pneumonia: she resulted positive and added to the count (maybe they will review all the cases at the end of the epidemic). I wonder if this is happening in every country.

 

Here below a map updated quite frequently.

 

Btw, I am well 😄

 

https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2020/02/22/news/coronavirus_in_italia_aggiornamento_ora_per_ora-249241616/

[bangorballetboy]

18 minutes ago, annamicro said:

 

Btw, I am well 😄

 

 

👍

[zxDaveM]

if most positives were asymptomatic, that is rather worrying. They could be infecting many others without realising it, as they would not 'self isolate' as they were not feeling unwell. I assume this is because the incubation period could be up to 14 days (before symptoms appear).

Whilst not diminishing the seriousness of a possible pandemic, I think people should stop panicking (see the stock market plunges - gawd help our pension funds if the barrow-boy traders find out the death/infection rates of seasonal flu!!). Most reasonably helathy individuals would shrug off this infection as mild flu, though of course its of much more concern to older folks, and those already with illnesses such as chest infections.

So, wash hands regularly (especially if you've been on public transport for example), and don't give a cuddle to someone coughing...

[Richard LH]

1 hour ago, zxDaveM said:

if most positives were asymptomatic, that is rather worrying. They could be infecting many others without realising it, as they would not 'self isolate' as they were not feeling unwell

But isn't the infection spread by having symptoms - sneezing,  coughing etc. ? I don't understand how you can spread it without at least feeling unwell in that way....

[KyleCheng]

1 hour ago, Richard LH said:

But isn't the infection spread by having symptoms - sneezing,  coughing etc. ? I don't understand how you can spread it without at least feeling unwell in that way....

While person-to-person contact such as sneezing and coughing is the most important method of spread, another way of transmission is via surfaces or objects that have the virus on it; this may include handrails, tables and trays at cafes, door handles... etc that people with the virus may have unknowingly coughed on or touched. If you touch a surface that has virus on it and then put your fingers in your mouth, pick your nose, or rubs your eyes, the virus may find a way into your body.

 

So personal hygiene really is key to protecting oneself: washing hands frequently, especially after, say, holding on the escalator handrails (I carry an antiseptic gel when traveling), covering your mouth when coughing (especially when you do so in an auditorium), and avoiding unnecessary visits to crowded places (indeed, like an auditorium) especially if you are feeling sick. The last tip doesn't only prevent the infected from infecting others, but also prevent the infected from contracting something else. As mentioned by others in this thread, comorbidity is an important risk factor for poor prognosis. 

 

To be honest, these personal hygiene tips are not just for times of epidemic, but people, including me, are used to ignoring them. I concur with zxDaveM that rather than panicking, we should see this as a good opportunity to establish a healthy and informed attitude towards disease prevention.

Edited February 28, 2020 by KyleCheng

[Anon2]

2 hours ago, Richard LH said:

But isn't the infection spread by having symptoms - sneezing,  coughing etc. ? I don't understand how you can spread it without at least feeling unwell in that way....

The WHO believe there have been some shredding of the virus by asymptotic carriers, the same as the usual flu and seasonal colds. 
 

The best advice is wash hands or use gel frequently especially after using public transport or being in busy areas. Don’t touch face, eyes, nose, mouth with hands unless you know they are clean. According to an infection control nurse we subconsciously touch our faces on average 30 times per hour. 
 

If you sneeze or cough use a tissue and discard. Avoid using hand as if have anything you will inevitably touch a door handle etc and spread any disease you may have. 
 

I feel for the businesses in the areas where the have been cases and the streets are empty. 

[Scheherezade]

4 hours ago, KyleCheng said:

If you touch a surface that has virus on it and then put your fingers in your mouth, pick your nose, or rubs your eyes, the virus may find a way into your body.

 

So, nose pickers take note! And not before time, some might say ...

[Pas de Quatre]

I feel somewhat confused. In what way is the Corona virus worse than a usual flu epidemic? It seems that it is very contagious, but apart from the elderly and those with certain existing helath problems, who suffer badly in other flu epidemics, it doesn't make the rest of the population that ill.  Surprisingly it seems not to be dangerous for young children either. So why are more precautions necessary including quarantine than in other years. Can anyone shed some light?

[Anon2]

14 minutes ago, Pas de Quatre said:

I feel somewhat confused. In what way is the Corona virus worse than a usual flu epidemic? It seems that it is very contagious, but apart from the elderly and those with certain existing helath problems, who suffer badly in other flu epidemics, it doesn't make the rest of the population that ill.  Surprisingly it seems not to be dangerous for young children either. So why are more precautions necessary including quarantine than in other years. Can anyone shed some light?

I think the problem is that it is an unknown quantity for the WHO/PHE. They don’t know yet if it will drop off when the weather improves and because there is no vaccine therefore those that are vulnerable will put our already stretched health system under even more strain. With the usual seasonal flu you hope for herd immunity via the offered vaccination among the vulnerable and health workers. 
But I think the news outlets are trying to raise hysteria among the general population. 

[Richard LH]

Unless the whole of Milan, and recent visitors thereto, is/are self isolating why does Corrales or Hayward (if she is so doing) have to do so?

And if La Scala needs to close why are public venues in Brighton, for example, not closed?

Genuine questions....I don't understand what appears to be a lot of inconsistency along with the tendency towards hysteria.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Richard LH

[Anon2]

1 hour ago, Richard LH said:

Unless the whole of Milan, and recent visitors thereto, is/are self isolating why does Corrales or Hayward (if she is so doing) have to do so?

And if La Scala needs to close why are public venues in Brighton, for example, not closed?

Genuine questions....I don't understand what appears to be a lot of inconsistency along with the tendency towards hysteria.

I assume Italy have closed public buildings in the north of the country to stop the spread. People won’t just be visiting La Scala from Milan, they will travel from other regions. They’ve had around 500 cases, aren’t we below 20? 

I believe the government advice is if you had travelled back from one of the affected towns in Italy then you need to self quarantine and follow the advice if you become unwell. 
I imagine if we start to see clusters of cases we will also see public building being closed but we are not at that stage yet. Apart from one sufferer in Uk all the other cases can trace their infection back to travel to an affected area. 
 

 

 

[annamicro]

 

It's a new virus, so still under investigation (of course everything is always under investigation, but here all the data are new and more needed).

We don't have a vaccine (in Italy flu vaccine is recommended and given for free to risk categories, as people older than 65).

We don't know if we already have antiviral drugs effective on this virus: attempts are made, but as part of an emergency situation.

For these reasons it better to not spread it, as often happens with normal flu when some "heros" go to the office feeling unwell because in their absence the world could collapse...and the week after, half of the other employees are at home ill.

 

Currently it seems that 80% of people get rid of the virus without symptoms or very mild ones, 15% need medical aid (maybe also hospitalization), 5% need intensive care unit and of this 2-3% can die, mainly elder people with co morbidities that usually are protected from normal flu by vaccination (in some cases more investigations have to be done to identify the actual primary cause of death); pulmonary complications in people younger than 65 (not pediatric) are rare but more frequent than with normal flu (primary viral pneumonia, not secondary bacterial pneumonia as with flu).

 

At the moment 11 small cities/villages, in Lombardy and Veneto, are quarantined; in Milan places where people stay in close contacts for a long time, as theatres or stadiums or museums, are closed and reopening is under discussion (the Duomo is planned to reopen on Monday), schools and universities were closed this week (it is half a week for schools, having Carnival holidays: in Milan carnival ends today, we are peculiar...Ambrosian rite) at probably also the next week, bars had to close at 6 PM, now they can stay open but only with service at the table (people cannot gather at the bar), public transport, shops and restaurants are open as usual.

 

It's interesting to know that a member of La Scala chorus fell ill on February 13th, having sung in Il Trovatore on the 12th: he isolated himself also from his family, staying at home in his room, thinking to have a normal flu he didn't want to spread. He resulted positive to Coronavirus several days after his voluntary isolation: this means he fell ill before Italian patient 1 and until yesterday nobody else in La Scala has been reported to be positive (this after the 14 days considered the maximum time of incubation). I have the feeling that many people around the world have already had Coronovirus infection without knowing or confusing it with seasonal flu....time will say.

 

[annamicro]

3 minutes ago, Jane said:

I assume Italy have closed public buildings in the north of the country to stop the spread.

 

Public buildings (post offices, outpatient ambulatory services, administrative offices etc)  are not closed, only schools/universities and "cultural" ones.

[Anon2]

27 minutes ago, annamicro said:

 

Public buildings (post offices, outpatient ambulatory services, administrative offices etc)  are not closed, only schools/universities and "cultural" ones.

That was my best attempt at describing universities, museums, theatres 😆 

 

[HelenLoveAppleJuice]

It is not the normal kind flu, telling from the death rate.

 

So far this flu season, 0.05% of people who caught the flu have died from the virus in the U.S. according to CDC.

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

 

According to a study (Feb 18) based on the current cases, the death rate for Coronavirus is much higher. The report by the CCDC shows Hubei province's death rate is 2.9% compared with 0.4% in the rest of the country. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51540981) You can also check the chart here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51674743. Even for the people with none previous health conditions, the rate is very high comparing to what flu does. The status is more close to Spanish flu than normal flu. 

 

Hubei's province has some problems so the death rate is much higher. But the other provinces, the hospital did whatever they can do for the patients and spent a lot of resources on them. I can tell cuz my mom worked in one of a very good hospital in a province very far away from Hubei. She just retired and still communicated with her former colleagues. Another data point, one of my college friend from Wuhan, his parents both infected by the virus and they are in very difficult time. They are just in their 50s. 

 

The virus is not as deadly as SARS or MARS. But the problem is that it spreads very fast. And a quite large percentage of the patients need put in hospital with a lot of care. Very resource consuming. Having a handful number of cases VS Having a large number of cases will result in very different situation. 

 

I don't want to make people panic because actually a panic society is even more harmful. But I agree with some actions France/Italy/and many other countries now take. It will gain the scientist more time to study the virus. The first location of an outbreak usually gets the worst result. The following will learn lesson from them and do much a better job. For example, it takes Wuhan several days to realise the some medicine (like Tamiflu and some Antibiotics) doctor firstly used as a standard are not helpful, but potently harmful to some patients. Also they realised some more actions should be taken more often when using ventilator after some recent autopsy finding. 

 

Here I want to share some important notes and what I have learnt from my contacts from China. Of course, I have better faith in NHS but I hope these will help someone:

 

1. A lot of patients' first symptom is actually not cough or fever, but uncomfortable in stomach like you eat some bad food.

 

2. Most important thing is to confirmed diagnosis at the early stage, because patients should take different kind of medicine than normal flu/cold. Taken the right medicine at the early stage prevent growing into serious stage in most of cases. It is a very hard lesson learnt by Chinese doctors. A lot of patients are relatively mild at the early stage. Fewer/cough like normal flu. Thus the doctors were not willing to give them some powerful medicine which will have some side effect like vomit, but hope they will improve  But if they miss this chance and the patient grows into serious stage, it is very little to do and many medicines do not work any more. 

So scientist are working very hard to develop quicker and easier test kit.

 

3. To raise the alarm in time is very important. Many people actually died because they had some routinely treatment/or some surgery appointment scheduled in January, and they caught the virus while recovering in the hospital. A very sad story from China for a family of 4. The mom in her 50-60s scheduled a nonessential but "better to have" surgery in Jan 17 and got the virus while recovering. Her condition got worse very fast and died soon. The dad also died because he spent a lot of time taking care of his wife. Their daughter and son, both adults, also infected and under treatment. Wuhan raised the alarm in Jan 20~23rd and cancelled all nonessential surgeries. If the alarm was raised some days earlier, this family would still be together.

 

4. Don't be panic.

Panic kills more. Wuhan society got panic in around January 20-23rd and a lot of people rushed to supermarket/drug store/hospital, and actually infected by doing so... Relax and keep the sprit high! Now many country has already found some practical cure to treat patients, including some anti-AIDS medicine (lopinavir/ ritonavir) and (surprisingly) some medicine from the pan-Quinine family. lopinavir/ ritonavir was not mass produced before because only some of AIDS patients need it. At the most difficult stage in Wuhan, they had less than 1000 pills of lopinavir/ ritonavir in stock. But ever since then all countries started produce and stock lopinavir/ ritonavir. So don't be panic! If you are really worried, drink some tonic water:) 

[HelenLoveAppleJuice]

Another thought from me is I really don't like the way media emphasises so much on age and pre-existing medical conditions. 

 

People from all age group have died.

 

The first impression of "pre-existing medical conditions" is something like cancer. But actually it includes diabetes and cardiovascular and so many other quite common conditions.

 

Status here https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

 

Younger/healthier people usually have a longer incubation period and their condition develop slower. But the condition can suddenly turn bad and kill the patient in very short time, leaving the doctors not many options. There are many cases like this and one famous one is the famous 35years old Doctor Li. He actually improved a lot and very very close to be discharged from the hospital. Then suddenly the condition dropped and killed him. His elderly parents, who got the virus passed from him, were put into intensive care earlier and recovered, now in good status.

 

During an outbreak, the older/less healthier people die first. In my hometown province, first a pair of 80+ old patients died and people thought, o, it was just something for the old and still ignored some warning coming from doctors. Then several days later a women in her 50s died, alarm the society. 

[Dawnstar]

1 hour ago, HelenLoveAppleJuice said:

1. A lot of patients' first symptom is actually not cough or fever, but uncomfortable in stomach like you eat some bad food.

 

2. Thus the doctors were not willing to give them some powerful medicine which will have some side effect like vomit

 

As someone with emetophobia, I am now panicking far more reading these two points than I was at anything I've read about coronavirus previously.

[LinMM]

Someone mentioned why weren’t theatres/ stadiums  etc closed in Brighton. 
I think that’s because the whole outbreak has been contained there.... there are no new cases there now ...that started from the man who was on a skiing holiday after having been in China. 

So there has been no need to close everything down. 

[HelenLoveAppleJuice]

45 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

As someone with emetophobia, I am now panicking far more reading these two points than I was at anything I've read about coronavirus previously.

 

Sorry if I did cause any confusion...

 

What I mean that 

Many patients start with loss of appetite, or some disagreeable felling in the stomach. 

 

And some known effective medicine (eg, like Lopinavir/ritonavir ,commonly known as Kaletra) has common side effects include diarrhea, vomiting, etc. 

 

Thus for some doctors hesitated to give these to the patients who show mild symptoms because the patients may be feeling worse after taking the medicine, especially who already have disagreeable feeling in the stomach.

 

Later they found that the side effect "worth" it because a protein of the mild symptom patients will grow into serious condition. And once it turns serious, it is very difficult to save them. And they now understand the virus better and know when it is the "right" time to give what kind of medicine.

 

Italy is treating patients using Ribavirin and  Lopinavir cocktail. The result is quite encouraging. ( https://www.corriere.it/esteri/20_febbraio_24/03-esteri-lightcorriere-web-sezioni-be84a59e-574e-11ea-b89d-a5ca249e9e1e_preview.shtml?reason=unauthenticated&cat=1&cid=audWIoec&pids=FR&credits=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.corriere.it%2Festeri%2F20_febbraio_24%2F03-esteri-lightcorriere-web-sezioni-be84a59e-574e-11ea-b89d-a5ca249e9e1e.shtml)

 

Many news still describe the virus as a "illness without a cure" to scare people... But actually it is no longer the case. There is no 100% success rate cure but some medicine has already proven to be very helpful as long as patient takes it before developing into serious condition.  And NHS and many other EU countries are very very actively carrying test to make sure patients will be monitored and given the correct treatment. So I have very good faith in them.  Hope this will make you feel better.

 

 

[Dawnstar]

@HelenLoveAppleJuice My problem is I really feel like I'd rather die of complications from coronavirus than have to take any medicine that would make me be sick!

[HelenLoveAppleJuice]

Just returned from ROH today after the opera. I sit at the ground and have a very good seat. A treat!

 

However the French speaking couple sitting behind me kept coughing and took cough sweets several time. And the German speaking gentleman made a lot of effort to stop his running nose... 

 

I dont think they have Coronavirus or I am in any danger. Further more, having an Asian looking face, I am very grateful that there has been absolutely no discrimination to me since the virus outbreak.

 

However I start to doubt how long the situation will maintain as usual... People from all over the world come and sit tightly together for several hours. Many prebook the ticket and trip. To be honest, I will be keen to make the show if I only "have very minor symptoms of flu"... especially for something so looking forward to like Swan Lake. I am young and not live with any elderly people so my risk is very low.

 

Considering about the avg age of Opera house visitors and how difficult to deep clean a venue with so many seats, I now totally understand why La Scala and other opera house choose to suspend the performances. I will continue coming to support ROH if they keep on running and wont complain if they decide to close.

 

Maybe it is a great time to put more effort on online screaming and recording more clips? 

[Shade]

Thank you Helen for your posts. As the Uk situation evolves - precautionary measures will need to change. I can’t remember what happened in 2009 when we had the swine flu pandemic. I don’t know if venues closed etc.

[Stevie]

On ‎01‎/‎03‎/‎2020 at 19:45, Shade said:

Thank you Helen for your posts. As the Uk situation evolves - precautionary measures will need to change. I can’t remember what happened in 2009 when we had the swine flu pandemic. I don’t know if venues closed etc.

Comparisons with previous epidemics may not be relevant. Although this is closer to SARS, it apparently has four amino acids present, which is rare or unheard of in nature and which make it easier to spread. But HEY, lets stop this thread and wait to see what the professionals say. If its best to close theatres and cinemas, then do it sooner rather than later.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Stevie

[Shade]

Yes indeed the situation is now evolving quickly. It doesn’t seem to have put people off attending the ROH for swan lake so far!

[Don Q Fan]

Teatro de'll Opera Roma has cancelled several ballet and operas and I believe other Italian theatres are also reducing audience numbers to within prescribed limits.  Zurich Opera Theatre has reduced audience to 900 persons.   All seems sensible to me  Just hope I get to see Nutcracker in Zurich in 2 weeks time.

[LinMM]

Reducing numbers seems pointless really. If there are 900 there that's enough if the virus was to become much more rampant.

Either keep them open or close them when it's required. 

You could have 1800 people in the audience and not one has the virus or 900 and two people have it!!!