Ballet Upper school fees/ loans/ grants

[AlwaysBallet]

Does anyone know the costs of attending the Royal Ballet Upper School or the English National Ballet School please?  Tuition and accommodation? 

 

Are there grants/loans available to help pay?

[Anna C]

Here’s some info from the ENBS website:  http://www.enbschool.org.uk/editorial.php?ref=information

 

Information on Dance and Drama Awards (DaDas):  https://www.gov.uk/dance-drama-awards

 

and info from the RBS website:  https://www.royalballetschool.org.uk/information/fees/full-time-training-fees/

 

 

[balletbean]

41 minutes ago, SarahBallet said:

Does anyone know the costs of attending the Royal Ballet Upper School or the English National Ballet School please?  Tuition and accommodation? 

 

Are there grants/loans available to help pay?

Not too sure where you are residentially qualified so this info may affect you differently. 

 

A DaDa (Dance and Drama Award) is a UK Gov run funding scheme in the way of a grant. But only those in the UK or the EU qualify. So not too sure what will happen to those pupils after Brexit. 
 

ENBS was £17,400 pa back in 2017 for UK/EU residents. The school quoted £11,000 for maintenance (accommodation etc). Very hard to locate actual fees like so many schools as they clearly promote funding by way of a DaDa. There are pupils that fall in between the gaps of funding ie not UK/EU but also not classes as overseas either. ie Crown Dependencies (Channel Islands).  
 

RBS - the lady I spoke to was incredibly helpful and encouraged my DD to apply. We fell outside DaDa jurisdiction but not an overseas pupil either. . Reassuring that I wasn’t to worry about the fees as ‘we have plenty of very generous sponsors who support our pupils’. Never did manage to obtain details of the fees. 
 

It will really be a matter of where you are domiciled. 

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by balletbean

[Dance.Mum]

Royal is around £30k a year which includes accommodation (roughly £20k fees and £10k accom not including food and travel, I think) - I understand that all students are expected to stay in the accommodation even if London based.  It is rare to get a full scholarship as these are reserved for the competition winners and exceptional students and there is no MDS but they do have their own programme.  Now that they offer a degree this may allow for access to other funding.

 

ENB is around £18k fees and they have DaDAs available. In most cases this will just contribute towards fees as the income level for maintenance is set quite low.  Overall I think it does not appear to be as good financially as an MDS.  If you were to compare the two (all be it that it doesn't quite work the same) you get half the amount for a DaDA that you get on an MDS - only looking at the Fees element.  It looked like you have to sort out your own accommodation but they do assist with it.  It is around £10k a year but you also have food to take account of and perhaps travel.

 

Sorry I don't have the full picture myself yet.  Just seen others post so hopefully this will all help.

 

 

[AlwaysBallet]

Thank you so much - really helpful!!!!

 

[Jan McNulty]

Hello Dance.Mum and welcome to the Forum!

[AlwaysBallet]

Can they apply for funding via normal uni routes if it is a "degree" please?

[Dance.Mum]

5 minutes ago, SarahBallet said:

Can they apply for funding via normal uni routes if it is a "degree" please?

That I don’t know - haven’t got that far - I would assume the Royal Finance team will be able to point you in the right direction.

[Dance.Mum]

15 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

Hello Dance.Mum and welcome to the Forum!

Thank you Jan.

[Anna C]

13 minutes ago, SarahBallet said:

Can they apply for funding via normal uni routes if it is a "degree" please?

 

Really depends upon three things; whether the institution is eligible for Student Finance, how much tuition fees are and whether the institution is “private” or not (for example, schools who are part of the Conservatoire for Dance and Drama are not “private” under SFE rules).  

 

So as an example, you used to be able to get the full tuition fee loan of £9250 pa towards a degree at somewhere like Central School of Ballet (part of the Conservatoire) but only a loan of around £6k for a degree course at a “private” institution which meant you had to make up a fee shortfall of £3-4k yourself.  

 

I say “used to” because it’s several years since my dd was applying for Upper Schools.

[AlwaysBallet]

Thank you, we are a year off applying - just trying to work out options.  Huge thank you 

 

[balletbean]

1 minute ago, SarahBallet said:

Thank you, we are a year off applying - just trying to work out options.  Huge thank you 

 

From my research, no they can’t apply fur a uni route funding as the pupils are too young. Have to be over 18 which we all know at the time of starting US pupils are 16/17yrs. Parents can’t apply on their behalf either. Parents would have to seek independent loans from a reputable loan company but obviously that then holds the usual repayment arrangements as any loan would be unlike student loans. 
It is incredibly hard. Try your local authority for any Bursaries available in your area for some additional support. 

[AlwaysBallet]

2 minutes ago, balletbean said:

From my research, no they can’t apply fur a uni route funding as the pupils are too young. Have to be over 18 which we all know at the time of starting US pupils are 16/17yrs. Parents can’t apply on their behalf either. Parents would have to seek independent loans from a reputable loan company but obviously that then holds the usual repayment arrangements as any loan would be unlike student loans. 
It is incredibly hard. Try your local authority for any Bursaries available in your area for some additional support. 

Thank you

[Loulou]

6 minutes ago, balletbean said:

From my research, no they can’t apply fur a uni route funding as the pupils are too young. Have to be over 18 which we all know at the time of starting US pupils are 16/17yrs. Parents can’t apply on their behalf either. Parents would have to seek independent loans from a reputable loan company but obviously that then holds the usual repayment arrangements as any loan would be unlike student loans. 
It is incredibly hard. Try your local authority for any Bursaries available in your area for some additional support. 

That’s incorrect my dd is at vocational school, started at 16 doing a BA ballet degree and has full degree funding via student finance, you do not need to be 18 they just need to be studying a degree that is recognised for student funding. Obviously not all upper schools offer a degree. 

 

HTH

 

[AlwaysBallet]

3 minutes ago, Loulou said:

That’s incorrect my dd is at vocational school, started at 16 doing a BA ballet degree and has full degree funding via student finance, you do not need to be 18 they just need to be studying a degree that is recognised for student funding. Obviously not all upper schools offer a degree. 

 

HTH

 

Thank you, how do you find out which vocational schools are eligible?

[Dance.Mum]

As the course is accredited by Roehampton I would assume they would know - maybe ask them what happens.

[meadowblythe]

I would think a quick search of UCAS is a good starting point.  Although not exhaustive - Guildhall (not ballet) is not part of UCAS but its pupils get full degree funding.  And yes, to confirm that Central, RCS and Rambert are all degree courses that take students from 16, with GCSEs (or equivalent) as the academic entry level.  I'm sure there are others.  Some degree institutions also offer extremely generous bursaries on top of the student funding.

[AlwaysBallet]

8 minutes ago, Dance.Mum said:

As the course is accredited by Roehampton I would assume they would know - maybe ask them what happens.

Is this at Royal?  Many thanks

[AlwaysBallet]

3 minutes ago, meadowblythe said:

I would think a quick search of UCAS is a good starting point.  Although not exhaustive - Guildhall (not ballet) is not part of UCAS but its pupils get full degree funding.  And yes, to confirm that Central, RCS and Rambert are all degree courses that take students from 16, with GCSEs (or equivalent) as the academic entry level.  I'm sure there are others.  Some degree institutions also offer extremely generous bursaries on top of the student funding.

Thank you

[balletbean]

19 minutes ago, Loulou said:

That’s incorrect my dd is at vocational school, started at 16 doing a BA ballet degree and has full degree funding via student finance, you do not need to be 18 they just need to be studying a degree that is recognised for student funding. Obviously not all upper schools offer a degree. 

 

HTH

 

Oh. That’s interesting, when I did research this pathway I was told no because the applicant was too young. 
Another frustrating factor is that many schools/colleges offer a Diploma Level 6. As we know it’s the vocational equivalent of a BA but doesn’t carry the same merit when seeking Student Loans. 
 

[Dance.Mum]

39 minutes ago, Dance.Mum said:

As the course is accredited by Roehampton I would assume they would know - maybe ask them what happens.

 

Okay so I am being dim here.  This won’t help with funding the Royal fees as there will be a fee associated with undertaking the degree and deny funding will be to cover that.  Or I am now really confused?  Sorry if I am muddying waters!

[Picturesinthefirelight]

5 hours ago, balletbean said:

Oh. That’s interesting, when I did research this pathway I was told no because the applicant was too young. 
Another frustrating factor is that many schools/colleges offer a Diploma Level 6. As we know it’s the vocational equivalent of a BA but doesn’t carry the same merit when seeking Student Loans. 
 

 

It depends on the individual institution and their entry criteria.  Very few actually stipulate a minimum age (except for medical courses) what they do is stipulate entry qualifications that the average 16 year old will not have such as A levels or a Level 3 Btec.  To my knowledge the institutions  that currently offer a degree where you only need GCSE's or equivalent are Central, Rambert, RCS & (very newly added for their Foundation degree only) LSC. I hadn't previsuly been aware about RBS.

 

Student finance depends on how the degree is offered.  If an institution is a member of the CUKAS (conservatoire) or is a university franchised programme then full student finance is available.  If however it is a private school/college and their degree is simply accredited by a university then the maximum you can borrow is just over £6,000 per year.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by Anna C
Edited by Mod to remove mention of a school we do not discuss on the Forum.

[Loulou]

3 hours ago, balletbean said:

Oh. That’s interesting, when I did research this pathway I was told no because the applicant was too young. 
Another frustrating factor is that many schools/colleges offer a Diploma Level 6. As we know it’s the vocational equivalent of a BA but doesn’t carry the same merit when seeking Student Loans. 
 

Yes it’s very frustrating my dd did not audition for any dada/ level 6 as we could not afford the rent/ living costs on top of the dada cost , apart from Elmhurst as she could have lived at home. 

re how you find out, everywhere dd looked at it was made clear on the website if it was degree funded via student finance. Or part funded as pictures says if a private institution and if you needed a levels/ BTEC or GCSE 

Edited January 23, 2020 by Loulou

[AlwaysBallet]

Thank you everyone

 

[lilacfairy]

You don't have to be 18 to get student finance for a degree course , my daughter was 16 and she got it.

[Pixiewoo]

We're a couple of years off having to look at this as DD in year 10, and planning to do A levels ... but already it is making my brain ache! 

[Anna C]

Having had a daughter who sustained a fulltime-training-ending injury at upper school, I would *always* suggest having a Plan B in the form of academic qualifications like A Levels and/or vocational exams - the latter being useful if the dancer needs to switch to teaching ballet.   My daughter didn’t want to teach despite having Advanced 2 (she’s now happily doing an academic degree) but she’s still glad she has those exams under her belt.  

[Tutusrus]

On 23/01/2020 at 15:24, balletbean said:

Oh. That’s interesting, when I did research this pathway I was told no because the applicant was too young. 
Another frustrating factor is that many schools/colleges offer a Diploma Level 6. As we know it’s the vocational equivalent of a BA but doesn’t carry the same merit when seeking Student Loans. 
 

Student finance is also available for Cert HE courses at 16 (ie Foundation Year leading to BA)

[balletbean]

17 hours ago, Tutusrus said:

Student finance is also available for Cert HE courses at 16 (ie Foundation Year leading to BA)

Thank you. Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on the way you look at it. Our Education authority offer a Grant for BA(Hons) or equiv qualification. The main issue is that the Grant only covers costs up to the average uni fees of £9,250, which we all know falls well short of the true costs for Vocational Schools. No DaDa, no student loans either so it’s a regular lender with the usual repayment terms and interest rates for the parent/s. Pupils at vocational schools are obviously too young to take out a loan for the balance. 
Attendance at a specialist school/college is actually ranked as the 4th most popular pathway for local students (ahead of medicine ) but one that still fails to gain the recognition from the education dept 🤷🏼‍♀️
There was one incident a few years back that the Director of Student Finance didn’t know that a Diploma Level 6 is the vocational equivalent of a BA(Hons) degree and the Deputy Minister didn’t know what ‘classical ballet’ was!! 🤦‍♀️
 

[Tutusrus]

On 31/01/2020 at 14:43, balletbean said:

Thank you. Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on the way you look at it. Our Education authority offer a Grant for BA(Hons) or equiv qualification. The main issue is that the Grant only covers costs up to the average uni fees of £9,250, which we all know falls well short of the true costs for Vocational Schools. No DaDa, no student loans either so it’s a regular lender with the usual repayment terms and interest rates for the parent/s. Pupils at vocational schools are obviously too young to take out a loan for the balance. 
Attendance at a specialist school/college is actually ranked as the 4th most popular pathway for local students (ahead of medicine ) but one that still fails to gain the recognition from the education dept 🤷🏼‍♀️
There was one incident a few years back that the Director of Student Finance didn’t know that a Diploma Level 6 is the vocational equivalent of a BA(Hons) degree and the Deputy Minister didn’t know what ‘classical ballet’ was!! 🤦‍♀️
 

RE BA Hons - Forgive the silly question but I thought grants had been abolished now and it’s all student loans for fees plus a maintenance aspect based on parents income? 

[Picturesinthefirelight]

28 minutes ago, Tutusrus said:

RE BA Hons - Forgive the silly question but I thought grants had been abolished now and it’s all student loans for fees plus a maintenance aspect based on parents income? 

 

Balletbean is not mainland UK. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Picturesinthefirelight

[balletbean]

On 04/02/2020 at 21:40, Tutusrus said:

RE BA Hons - Forgive the silly question but I thought grants had been abolished now and it’s all student loans for fees plus a maintenance aspect based on parents income? 

Residents of the Channel Islands are excluded from applying for a UK Student Loan as well as applying for a DaDa. It’s so confusing as for the vast majority of the time residents are classed as part of the UK. ie access to NHS hospital treatment and GP care. But then sometimes called “international students” by some educational institutions. Therefore the higher fee rate.  There’s no definitive rule of where these students stand.  It’s up to the individual providers to decide and parents to hold their breath and keep their fingers crossed. 🤞🏼

[Peanut68]

Gosh that’s yet another dilemma for some parents.... Poor them!

I do hope Channel Island based families do at least benefit from lower tax payments at least to help offset any discrepancies? Seems nuts not to be eligible for DaDa’s & student loans...