Royal Ballet School Auditions 2020

[DreamChaser]

My DD auditioned in Birmingham on Friday and really didn’t enjoy the class 😟 It was the last one of the day 3-4pm, the room was super hot and the male panellist was struggling to stay awake. The class was short and they only did 2 mobility stretches?!

 

My DD read it that they took one look as they all walked in and decided that they weren’t interested in any of them 😳

[sunrise81]

1 hour ago, DreamChaser said:

My DD auditioned in Birmingham on Friday and really didn’t enjoy the class 😟 It was the last one of the day 3-4pm, the room was super hot and the male panellist was struggling to stay awake. The class was short and they only did 2 mobility stretches?!

 

My DD read it that they took one look as they all walked in and decided that they weren’t interested in any of them 😳

Oh no! Not again! 

[Motomum]

2 hours ago, DreamChaser said:

My DD auditioned in Birmingham on Friday and really didn’t enjoy the class 😟 It was the last one of the day 3-4pm, the room was super hot and the male panellist was struggling to stay awake. The class was short and they only did 2 mobility stretches?!

 

My DD read it that they took one look as they all walked in and decided that they weren’t interested in any of them 😳

What year was your daughter auditioning for?

[In at the deep end]

Bath JA's: can anyone tell me the current times of classes please? V little info and no point applying for something we really can't make! I believe Birmingham JA are early afternoon on Saturdays, to fit with Young Dancers?? Many thanks x

[DreamChaser]

1 hour ago, Motomum said:

What year was your daughter auditioning for?

Year 9

[Peanut68]

On 01/02/2020 at 13:43, DreamChaser said:

My DD auditioned in Birmingham on Friday and really didn’t enjoy the class 😟 It was the last one of the day 3-4pm, the room was super hot and the male panellist was struggling to stay awake. The class was short and they only did 2 mobility stretches?!

 

My DD read it that they took one look as they all walked in and decided that they weren’t interested in any of them 😳

Ditto for London today.... literally his eyes closed!! 🤔🙄 

[SissonneDoublee]

16 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

Ditto for London today.... literally his eyes closed!! 🤔🙄 

The male panellist is normally the lovely Mark Annear. He’s usually so positive and attentive. Could the vibe have been misinterpreted by nervous auditionees?

[dancefanatic]

My DD and a friend auditioned Thursday in Birmingham and both said they felt Mr Annear was very dismissive of them both. They’ve auditioned previously and didn’t have feeling then.

[Charliesmum]

Year 7 boys finals for us- anyone got the foggiywhat to expect?

[TKT]

We auditioned in Bath, MA first group in so my DD & I didn’t get those dismissive feelings, maybe because it was early? But I am sorry for the little DDs & DSs that experienced such feelings... However, for my DD it was the opposite. It was our first intro into RBS & my DS said the teacher felt her hips, held her waist, ran her hands down her hamstrings, held her hand??? Is this usual for an audition?? (as I said we’re newbies) or have we completely fluffed it haha... Either way the experience was positive as my DD didn’t mind at all! 

[Peanut68]

5 hours ago, SissonneDoublee said:

The male panellist is normally the lovely Mark Annear. He’s usually so positive and attentive. Could the vibe have been misinterpreted by nervous auditionees?

No

[SissonneDoublee]

5 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

No

If the audition was for an older year group the candidates would need to be capable of joining an existing cohort with training already underway. The panel may have been able to make a decision very early on with regard to their ability to do this, I suppose. It does sound like a better poker face is required, but the hours of auditions that the panel have sat through by now may be taking their toll. I’m sorry that your DC’s experience was a disappointing one.

[Yrosered]

59 minutes ago, SissonneDoublee said:

If the audition was for an older year group the candidates would need to be capable of joining an existing cohort with training already underway. The panel may have been able to make a decision very early on with regard to their ability to do this, I suppose. It does sound like a better poker face is required, but the hours of auditions that the panel have sat through by now may be taking their toll. I’m sorry that your DC’s experience was a disappointing one.

Perhaps,  but if your job involves outreach and children come out of an audition feeling that they've been dismissed before they've even danced then maybe you're in the wrong job. Lots of UK children audition for RBS US having never been in their system at all, paying to do so. Auditioning them in a way that knocks their confidence may mirror the professional audition circuit but it's rude. They all deserve the illusion of a fair chance - or better a real chance! 

[Bluebird22]

And before the auditions they encourage everyone to try again, hard for kids to want to do that if they feel like they are being dismissed! I’m so sorry that any child has been made to feel like that. I had a group of kids leave an audition last year having felt completely ignored, but thankfully there was a group and they were able to laugh and joke about it. 

[Motomum]

14 hours ago, SissonneDoublee said:

The male panellist is normally the lovely Mark Annear. He’s usually so positive and attentive. Could the vibe have been misinterpreted by nervous auditionees?

Mark Annear IME is far from always lovely. He can be both lovely and extremely severe (not mean, just not soft) in his treatment of young dancers.

My son is an MA in the boys specialist group and Mr Annear most certainly does not pull any punches. He strikes me as quite ‘old school’ in his approach, which my son loves but I’m not sure I would if I had to swap places.

I can understand why children might find him quite intimidating with his sometimes poker face.

 

The audition process can be quite brutal. My son’s RB Preliminaries were taken by his MA teacher who did not acknowledge the children he already knew from his class, but treated the whole group as a first meeting.

The panel however did give indications that they knew certain children and talked to them by name.

i am in no doubt that this kind of familiarity must leave the unknown children feeling quite ‘less than.’

 

I do believe though that this approach is absolutely part of the arena our children have chosen to step in to.

 

Preparing my son for this kind of thing has helped him manage the contrary process of auditions immensely.

[Tessiets]

My daughter was in the first group for Upper School & AAs yesterday - does anyone know how many groups there were auditioning?

[Peanut68]

I think 3 girls 1 boys - don’t know if any split re: yes 1/2/3

[Tessiets]

32 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

I think 3 girls 1 boys - don’t know if any split re: yes 1/2/3

Thanks! 

[Pups_mum]

I absolutely agree with you @Yrosered

If people we deal with in everyday life behaved like this would we be so accepting? If a doctor didn't  bother listening would people say "Well have you any idea how many patients she has seen this week, and you really aren't that sick are you?" Or if a regular school teacher gave a class with his eyes shut would it be  "Gosh, he must get sick of having to spend every day with kids, you should be grateful be bothers to turn up at all?" If a checkout operator was rude we would probably complain. If you work in a public facing job there is a standard that your clients can reasonably expect, no matter how tired, bored, hot, cold etc you are. How can we hold shop assistants to a higher standard of behaviour than we do people entrusted with the care of children and young people, simply because they represent an elite institution?

A poster hit the nail on the head in another thread recently, talking about the "humble gratitude" that parents and children are expected to exhibit in these circumstances. Yes, we all know that the performing arts world is tough, but these are children and their parents have paid a sum of money which for some will be a significant amount, for this experience. The should be able to expect politeness as a minimum.

Some sectors of dance education are stuck in a mindset that most of the rest of the educational world abandoned decades ago, and it really does need to change.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Pups_mum
Typos

[Peanut68]

Here here Pups mum!!

[Anna C]

I agree, Pups_mum.  As Ballet parents we are so often scared to rock the boat for fear our children will lose their place/get a bad reputation or whatever, even at a local level.  We forget that we’re paying customers and become so fearful that I think *some* - not all, of course - teachers/schools/ADs take advantage of that.  Had I known my daughter would end up taking a completely different path, I think I would have behaved very differently with one or two teachers but the ballet world is so small, it’s almost impossible to call out bad/unprofessional behaviour at the time if you fear that it will affect your child’s chances in future.  

 

Is this limited to ballet, I wonder?  Or does it happen in sports/music/theatre too?

[Lindsay]

Well said Pups mum! I have more experience of specialist music schools than dance, but it took a string of very nasty scandals for them to even begin to admit that it should be "children first, musicians second".  And given the recent testimony from heads and governors of various schools in front of the National Enquiry it seems that complacency is still alive and well in many places.  I really hope that specialist dance schools can wake up to the fact that they are first and foremost in a position of care for children and that their mission to protect standards of dance is a secondary consideration. 

[DanceMum83]

Have any more results regarding WL come out yet, manchester??

 

presume we will be a while yet as we were Birmingham on Friday 

[Pups_mum]

Good point @Anna C

I suspect there are similar problems in any field where there are more children with talent and a desire to participate than there are places. But in my experience at least, sport is less bad, partly because of the influence of national governing bodies and partly because it is easier to be objective. For example, if there are standard qualifying times which must be reached to progress to the next stage it is easier to pick objectively. Also, sport has embraced science more, so rather than that rather abstract concept of "potential" that we face in the dance world, young people seeking to participate in higher levels of sport can be tested more objectively. Obviously that is not infallible  - for example Mark Cavendish who, whatever people feel about his personality, is one of the greatest cyclists of all time, performs very badly in the lab, and really shouldn't have been capable of his achievements. But I think its better than the vague "we know it when we see it" or really " we know what we are looking for but we aren't going to tell you" attitude that seems to prevail in dance. I know its harder when artistry comes in to it, but I do think more transparency would help everyone.

I suspect the sports I am involved in are at the higher end when it comes to Child Protection and appropriate training for youth competitors ( driven to some degree by previous scandals) but I don't delude myself that they are perfect. There is however a proper structure. If I saw something I felt was wrong I would know what to do about it, and there are easily accessible and clear standards and codes of conduct for all involved. Dance poses many of the same risks to our young people as does competitive sport, but it lacks the structure and accountability. 

Sorry, for derailing the thread....I will go now and leave space for those whose children are auditioning this year. I wish everyone all the best and I hope that all the young dancers have good experiences. But those that don't should be able to speak up.

[Sally-Anne]

London results are coming out - an expected no for Finals for us 

[DreamChaser]

20 hours ago, SissonneDoublee said:

The male panellist is normally the lovely Mark Annear. He’s usually so positive and attentive. Could the vibe have been misinterpreted by nervous auditionees?

Agree, usually my DD has a positive experience having gone through the process to for JA and MA before but had a completely different experience last week.

 🙁

[DanceMum83]

32 minutes ago, Sally-Anne said:

London results are coming out - an expected no for Finals for us 

Do you k is of London ones that have results? Is that from Sunday 26th?

[sunrise81]

Omg!!!! Dd is through!!! Actually in shock after her experience!!

[tutugirl]

Congratulations sunrise81

Is this from Manchester ?

Edited February 3, 2020 by tutugirl

[Sally-Anne]

32 minutes ago, DanceMum83 said:

Do you k is of London ones that have results? Is that from Sunday 26th?

Yes from the Sunday - year 7

[Pointeshoesarethedream]

30 minutes ago, sunrise81 said:

Omg!!!! Dd is through!!! Actually in shock after her experience!!

Fantastic news. Congratulations x

[Peanut68]

Am I alone in finding it odd (even somewhat insulting?) that no true representative of RBS Upper School is present in all auditions for Upper School places? And possibly same for White Lodge places also in some cases? 

It seems for years now there is the same one individual consistently on the panel who choose for training across all courses from  c. age 8 (?) part time JA courses right up to c. age 19 third year Upper School. That seems at odds to me s surely there is a huge difference across the year groups? Sure, I believe they will be extremely experienced with a good eye but I would expect more specialisation in talent spotting for specific year groups for each audition would be beneficial & certainly more respectful of the young people auditioning & of the parents who have paid a large sum of money....Surely at the very least an actual staff member of each of the relevant institutions (WL or US depending on entry age) should attend all full time course auditions? 

Onevorhee thoght too is by always being seen by dale old person, it reinforces a history of failure woth DC’s vocalising ‘I know they don’t like me’ ‘They didn’t choose me before she’d 9 so why would they now age 15?’ Not setting them into an ideal mindset? Or conversely ‘they did pickme for JA’s or similar so I’m feeling good & confident’ etc etc...

I can echo the responses of well it’s s tough world, they have to be tough, it’s a small world, they’ll constantly come up upon the same people etc etc....but still I do think they could/should ‘shake it up’ a little....don’t remember there ever being a request for feedback on audition experience? And suspect many of us wouldn’t truly trust the anonymity of any survey & worry to be that exposing or complaining parent for fear we jeapardise our DC’s future chances.... shocking we still have this little nagging worry isn’t it in this day & age? It echoes comments made by students in current ongoing ‘HR investigations’ in the profession doesn’t it? In Dance we are trained ‘to always say yes’ We are perhaps all a little guilty of aiding this unhealthy elitist can do what they like attitude.... 

The big wigs all seem to be in attendance at auditions held overseas or where they dish out places/ scholarships/ short term international ‘exchange’ style opportunities. I guess Birmingham/Manchester/London not as glam as Asia/USA.....And I imagine the expenses paid trips (& fees to teach masterclasses & judge?) also help tempt their presence where they actually to get to see potential pupils? 

Will add that I am sure these issues are not unique solely to RBS & I wrote merely as a commentator stating solely my own humble opinions & musings....

Edited February 3, 2020 by Peanut68
Add text

[SissonneDoublee]

2 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

Am I alone in finding it odd (even somewhat insulting?) that no true representative of RBS Upper School is present in all auditions for Upper School places? And possibly same for White Lodge places also in some cases? 

It seems for years now there is the same one individual consistently on the panel who choose for training across all courses from  c. age 8 (?) part time JA courses right up to c. age 19 third year Upper School. That seems at odds to me s surely there is a huge difference across the year groups? Sure, I believe they will be extremely experienced with a good eye but I would expect more specialisation in talent spotting for specific year groups for each audition would be beneficial & certainly more respectful of the young people auditioning & of the parents who have paid a large sum of money....Surely at the very least an actual staff member of each of the relevant institutions (WL or US depending on entry age) should attend all full time course auditions? 

The big wigs all seem to be in attendance at auditions held overseas or where they dish out places/ scholarships/ short term international ‘exchange’ style opportunities. I guess Birmingham/Manchester/London not as glam as Asia/USA.....And I imagine the expenses paid trips (& fees to teach masterclasses & judge?) also help tempt their presence where they actually to get to see potential pupils? 

The AD is present at finals, along with a panel of relevant teaching staff from WL or US. With the sheer volume of preliminary auditions that take place, it is amazing that they manage to have even one member of staff that sees every single child, but as far as I know Mr Annear does. The panel is always comprised of associate teachers, who have plenty of experience in knowing what they are looking for. The sum that parents pay covers admin and other fees, such as the teacher’s, pianist’s and panel’s time, rather than being paid as a consumer that is then entitled to a service. I think the majority of dancers come away feeling very positive about the experience, as my DD did, but I am sorry to hear that not everyone has come away feeling that way this year. Hopefully there will be lots more positive experiences to come.