bridiem Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 It's a light-hearted comedy, and the themes are implicit, not explicit. Personally I find it quite a relief that for once one doesn't have to engage with the characters' inner depths. At the beginning, Franz is a cheeky chappy who flirts with flirtation; at the end, he knows what's what. I don't always need to see 'the journey'; I'm just glad it's been made. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Sorry to be pernickety but I’m sure at least the original name of the main female role in this ballet was Swanhilda ... with an ‘h’ and of course makes sense as a bit of a job description maybe! Anyway has this just morphed into Swanilda in recent years or have there always been two versions 🤔 I cant write it without the ‘h’ myself as an old habit but if HAS now officially changed will probably reluctantly be able to acknowledge by the next production 😩 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Allen Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 It's always been Swanilda (no h) for me. I checked a couple of books and Chujoy's Dance Encyclopedia (1949) not only gives the name as Swanilda but gives the cast of the original production which refers to Swanilda also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 A quick forum search gives 72 hits for the version with "h" - including those on this thread. Most seem to be from different productions, though, so perhaps it varies according to production? I know I checked my cast sheet before I typed it without an "h". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Thanks for the info but I still see it spelled both ways and the one with the ‘h’ is the first one I came across back in early 70’s. I suppose as the original story ... and the ballet.. were set in Poland I imagine the original name would have been a Germanic or Polish version of the name delineating her job....looking after the Swans ( or in reality more likely to be geese) If I can find the original story presumably written in German there may be a way of finding if the ‘h’ existed in German and has become silent in English and then omitted altogether!! on one ballet website it’s spelt both ways on the same info page....very confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Haa another version Swanhilde!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingrid Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Thoughts on the cinema relay: About the production, I think I liked it better now than the other version I’ve seen from 10+ years ago. I agree 100% about what was said regarding the lighting and the buildings occupying too much space on stage. I hope the RB plan on a future revamp on this ballet cause I think there is space for that to happen ( both in narrative/story, as in dance and production design). I do like all the costumes for the show, I think they changed Franz last costume in act 3 which I liked, but I wouldn’t mind seeing them change a bit. Overall I find this staging a wonderful opportunity for the women of the company, and the decision to put for this cinema relay new faces in all kinds of roles was a great one. As Swanilda, Marianela Nunez was captivating and funny! I thought her mime and acting was fabulous just as her interaction with Vadim’s Franz. Was surprised with how much I loved Vadim in this role, not for the dancing ( I knew he would be spectacular) but for his acting. Bravo for both. Avis is also a treasure! So lucky to have him still with the company and hopefully for many more years to come. In act one the dancers that caught my attention were Teo Dubreil and Romany Padjak. As some have said before, Mayara Magri does make the most of the roles given to her, as soon as she entered the stage as Peasant Girl it was like she was a ray of sunshine and she completely dominated the place with her personality. Definitely elevated the ending of act 1. Can not wait to hear about her Swanilda debut here on the forum!! In act 3 we had more ”new” faces. The dancers who caught my attention here were Leticia Dias, Yu Hang, Sae Maeda, Sumina Sasaki, Nadia Mullova-Barley, Amelia Townsend and Charlotte Tonkinson. I loved Claire Calvert as Dawn. Beautiful feet and lines. She looks much better in this than she ever felt ( to me) as the lilac fairy, where it looks like she is doing more of a series of steps - where you “feel” the difficulty of the steps when you shouldn’t. About Annette Buvoli, She is a lovely dancer and I hope we get to see more of her in the future, was very happy she got this chance to dance Prayer. She had the loveliest hands through out the performance and such a serene look to her eyes. Brava. Great pas de deux to close act 3 by Vadim and Nunez. Showing great technique and security in all the steps. Agree with everyone that pointed it out Vadim’s black leggings and how that wasn’t favoured by the camera. If I remember anything else I will add it later. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 4 hours ago, LinMM said: If I can find the original story presumably written in German there may be a way of finding if the ‘h’ existed in German The original ballet of 1870 was premiered in Paris and the Bibliothèque nationale has put some helpful documents of the period online. For example: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8454648k/f14.item.r=coppélia 1870 The spelling on that contemporary document is clearly (see the top right) Swanilda. For those who want to check further, full details of this source are here: Title : [ Coppélia ou la fille aux yeux d'émail : vingt-deux maquettes de costumes / par Alfred Albert et Paul Lormier] Author : Albert, Alfred (1814?-1879). Dessinateur Author : Lormier, Paul (1813-1895). Dessinateur Publication date : 1869-1870 Identifier : ark:/12148/btv1b8454648k Source : Bibliothèque nationale de France, département Bibliothèque-musée de l'opéra, D216-23 (43-64) Relationship : http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb409159018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beryl H Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 14 hours ago, LinMM said: Haa another version Swanhilde!! I seem to remember this, also Myrthe in Giselle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Thank you Sebastian haven’t had time to look into your links yet but will do ....election took over 😢 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) Have now looked further into this and what I find amazing is how on earth the ballet Coppelia was ever adapted from the original tale “Der Sandmann” by Hoffman ....an altogether far darker and to be frank definitely weird story! The original characters names are completely different and basically the character of Swanhilda is called Clara and Coppelia is called Olimpia the only similar name is Coppelius which is the same in both and they are into the same kind of thing...well sort of!! So there is no original German text with the name Swanhilda in it 😢 However in the info I was reading when went on to adaptation of the ballet it switched to Wikipedia and there shows a picture of the first ballerina to perform role: Guiseppina Bozzacchi and spells Swanhilda with the ‘h’ I don’t really mind how it’s spelled but it’s interesting that there isn’t really an overall consensus on it so will just respect the Company showing it and for the Royal that’s Swanilda without the ‘h’ Edited December 13, 2019 by LinMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuthE Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 44 minutes ago, LinMM said: The original characters names are completely different and basically the character of Swanhilda is called Clara and Coppelia is called Olimpia the only similar name is Coppelius which is the same in both and they are into the same kind of thing...well sort of!! Olympia and Coppelius also make it into Offenbach's opera Tales of Hoffmann... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Allen Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 50 minutes ago, LinMM said: I don’t really mind how it’s spelled but it’s interesting that there isn’t really an overall consensus on it so will just respect the Company showing it and for the Royal that’s Swanilda without the ‘h’ That the Royal Ballet, ENB, New York City Ballet and the Paris Opera (where the ballet was first performed) all spell the character without the "h", suggests a strong bias in that direction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 On 11/12/2019 at 15:18, capybara said: This interview with Christopher Carr might have been posted elsewhere but, if so, I can't locate it. I also says much about the artistic amazingness of Nunez and Muntagirov and their personalities but it alludes, too, to the chequered preparation which Hayward had prior to her debut: Here's the relevant part: "It was the very first time she had done it and for the two weeks leading up to her first performance, which was the first night, she was ill! She hadn’t even completed the ballet at all, and she didn’t learn all the ballet until the day before the actual opening night, but she danced very, very well." Eek! All credit to her, then. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Sorry to hark back to the story again but because I could hardly relate “Der Sandmann” (definitely on the nightmare scale with a character to almost rival Bluebeard) to the ballet Coppelia I then found that some sources say the ballet is also partly based on an opera libretto called ‘Die Poupee” ( the doll) but as that was much later than the 1870 ballet Coppelia I was confused as to this origin but then discovered there is another version of this libretto from 1852 and this is another opera called La poupee de Nuremberg also very loosely based on Sandmann tale of Hoffman and with music by none other than Adolphe Adam!! It’s definitely much more light hearted an opera ‘comique’ in fact .....So guess it must be from this that Coppelia is based on as it does have more similarities with ballet story. Anyway Douglas Allen you will be pleased to know that from now on will call it Swanilda! Though still have a hankering for the slightly more romantic Swanhilda version 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 8 hours ago, LinMM said: it switched to Wikipedia and there shows a picture of the first ballerina to perform role: Guiseppina Bozzacchi and spells Swanhilda with the ‘h’ Wikipedia? Given how Wikipedia articles are compiled, this needs checking. So please note first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppélia I assume this is the page you looked at. And yes the caption to the photograph is indeed currently spelled with an h. However where does whichever editor who wrote that caption get their spelling from? Presumably from the photograph itself, so clicking on that takes one to... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppélia#/media/File:Coppelia_-Swanilda_-Giuseppina_Bozzachi_-Act_I-Scene_2_-Paris_-1870_-2.JPG You will notice now in the information shown about the photograph that Ivor Guest (from whose 1974 book the picture is taken) spells it without an h, so whoever drew on this photographic source to write the caption seems to have made a mistake. Everything on Wikipedia needs a source - preferably a secondary source - and the source for the caption is the 1974 book. Perhaps I was not clear in my earlier post. The costume designer - of the costumes worn by the dancer who created the role - spelled the name Swanilda on a drawing made in 1869-70, as can clearly be seen on the original to which I linked. I submit that those who worked on the first production knew how the name should be spelled. I suggest this is therefore a far more plausible source than either a book published in 1974 (even though it spells the name the same way) or a Wikipedia article, which by its very nature can never be more than a secondary, provisional and ever changing project. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 To be honest Sebastian it’s irrelevant now because I was looking for the source from the original tale the ballet was .....extremely loosely... based on by Hoffman and therefore a German text but the characters in this story are completely different so there is no original German source with the ballet names in except the name of Dr. Coppelius! I was probably hoping to see some original German name like ‘Schwannhilde’ from which Swanilda may have been derived!! I don’t know which librettist used the names Franz ..Swanilda...Coppelia.. first ...did they come from the 1852 opera or were they made up in 1870 especially for the ballet. In a context like this I haven’t got time to go into all Wikipedia’ sources!! I have a feeling the first connection for me for this ballet was the Ballet Rambert version so have taken on the spelling with the ‘h’ from there and it’s stuck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 8 hours ago, LinMM said: I don’t know which librettist used the names Franz ..Swanilda...Coppelia.. first ...did they come from the 1852 opera or were they made up in 1870 especially for the ballet. The character names in the one-act 1852 opera La poupée de Nuremberg - with music as you say by Adam - are Bertha, Donathan, Miller and Cornelius. The name Swanilda appears to be original to the 1870 ballet libretto by Nuitter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 Well, the other night, and not for the first time in this ballet, the people behind me thought that Swanilda was Coppelia! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, capybara said: Well, the other night, and not for the first time in this ballet, the people behind me thought that Swanilda was Coppelia! Well it is a bit confusing, the ballet being called Coppélia but Coppélia not being the ever-present heroine of the ballet! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 At the risk of trying everyone's patience, there is an earlier use of the name Swanhilda (this time with an h) which might interest people. Charles Dickens co-owned and edited a weekly magazine in the 1850s called Household Words. There we find a piece called Wild Legends which purports to retell folk tales from around Bohemia (more exactly, Oberlansitz). One of the wild legends tells of a maiden in a castle who is called Swanhilda. However her adventures do not resemble what happens in either E T A Hoffman or the ballet, nor do we know if Dickens wrote this piece as the articles and stories in Household Words were published anonymously. Perhaps Swanhilda - with an h - is Anglophone, whereas the Francophone spelling is Swanilda. Just a guess. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 Well yes am interested in both your posts Sebastian thank you! It could well be that these two spellings have been confused for us by Dickens of all people...love it! As a complete aside I was visiting Poland in 1974 when it wasn’t easy to do so and there is a picture of me surrounded by geese ...I just can’t remember how this came about now probably down near Zakopane ...but on the photo is written ‘ a real life Swanhilda’ The irony is that in 1975 as an amateur dancer and being rather tall I danced as Franz a couple of times in a Coppelia production based on the Rambert version! And in finding out about all this I believe the role of Franz was at some point way back ...in the original even? danced by a female! I am glad it’s a proper male role now though! I just loved the ballet such fun to dance in I was usually one of the friends but at the time I really coveted dancing Prayer which I never did 😢 I look forward to seeing this role danced in Jan hopefully by Buvoli and of course the whole ballet especially as things currently stand it’s Magri and Corrales in the main roles. I certainly don’t remember that superb solo danced in rehearsal by Corrales hee hee! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted December 14, 2019 Author Share Posted December 14, 2019 I spelled it Swanhilda up-thread because that’s how Frankie Hayward spelled it on Instagram, and if it was good enough for her, it was good enough for me! 😂 Swanilda, Swanhilda....let’s call the whole thing off! 😳 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob S Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 3 hours ago, Sim said: I spelled it Swanhilda up-thread because that’s how Frankie Hayward spelled it on Instagram, and if it was good enough for her, it was good enough for me! 😂 Swanilda, Swanhilda....let’s call the whole thing off! 😳 I’m surprised she didn’t go with Swankie 😀 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coated Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 8 hours ago, Sebastian said: At the risk of trying everyone's patience I have endless patience for people sharing their encyclopedic knowledge 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 7 hours ago, LinMM said: Well yes am interested in both your posts Sebastian thank you! Thank you LinMM, it’s an interesting puzzle. 7 hours ago, LinMM said: The irony is that in 1975 as an amateur dancer and being rather tall I danced as Franz a couple of times in a Coppelia production based on the Rambert version! And in finding out about all this I believe the role of Franz was at some point way back ...in the original even? danced by a female! In fact a few pages earlier on this thread FLOSS posted about this: https://www.balletcoforum.com/topic/21564-royal-ballet-coppelia-dec-2019-jan-2020/?do=findComment&comment=303465 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 Gosh just realised how long this thread has actually become! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesrhblack Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 I enjoyed catching up with the broadcast yesterday of a ballet I think I’ve seen once 40 years ago. I’d forgotten how absolutely glorious Delibes’ score is, with not one dull number. I’m not notably politically correct but I did surprise myself by having a slight issue with the central plot premise, involving illegal entry and destruction of property. I’d also agree the poster who wrote of the “mature sheen” of Nunez’s dancing. I think there was an element of that even in her younger days and however brilliantly and beautifully danced I didn’t find Swanilda a natural fit for her, with without an ‘h.’ Goodness knows what I’ll think to Morera who I’ve booked to see as I wanted to see Campbell as Franz (and I couldn’t catch his Hayward dates after the casting changed). Muntagirov exuded boyish charm and enthusiasm and danced up a storm whilst, at the risk of seeming heretical, I think there is a more sinister yet more touching Dr Coppelius to be found than the splendid Gary Avis offers in this. A particular pleasure was to see Buvoli. Her long lines, musical response and serene presence seemed ideally fitted to Prayer and I understand she was beautiful in Enigma Variations too. There is a thread to be considered on why opportunities have been so long coming to dancers such as her and (an even longer wait) Romany Pajdak, since when those opportunities arise they are taken so very beautifully. Nevertheless, I enjoyed very much, above all for the music. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 With a snow covering and ice expected I think I’ll stay home and give the encore a miss. I assume there’ll be a DVD so I will eventually be able to see the cinema performance. Meantime it’s very good of the Royal Ballet to post so many clips of Coppelia and hoping snow/ice don’t disrupt plans for London trips for other Coppelia casts around Christmas. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 Well, on the cinema replay, we had Swanilda and (mostly from Darcey Bussell) Swanhilda - to the extent that it seemed as if other people were dropping their aitches. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balletfanp Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 Belatedly commenting on Tuesday’s cinema relay, I noted the Swanilda/Swanhilda anomalies too! I can’t add much to previous superlative comments made, other than that I thought Annette Buvoli danced Prayer with a lovely intensity and serenity (beautiful feet too) - I found her really moving and I hope we see more of her in solo roles from now on. Marianela Nunez was her radiant self....what more can I say? And I know that it wasn’t Muntagirov’s “big moment” in the ballet (and that, it goes without saying, was mind-blowingly fantastic), but his comic timing was spot on, and his verve, pure joie de vivre and sheer Russian flair in the Act 1 character dancing was simply a joy to behold. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balletfanp Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 Sorry, no idea why my font sizes went a bit mad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Macmillan Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 Sorted! 14 is our default size. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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