redshoesgirl2 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said: I think that is an assumption too far I'm afraid.... i am not assuming anything. it is basic physics and physiology. without good upper body strength, a man can't lift a woman over his head easily. just as if his legs aren't strong he isn't going to be jumping well. my question was he training enough. just a question, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redshoesgirl2 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, Ivy Lin said: I'm pretty shocked by some of the comments on Osipova by Russian balletomanes. One of them dismissed her with "she's Jewish." End of story. Nothing more to say for her at least. i tend to remind those nasty-naysayers that Osipova is a person, a human being, who shares her art with us even when her feet hurt and should not be the subject of attacks on social media. these lovely dancers do not exist in a vacuum, so what is said will eventually get back to them. unfortunately, if a reviewer goes on the attack, it is much more immediate. can you imagine what she must have felt to read that "fag" comment? have you ever read anything approaching that level of dismissiveness about nunes? or cutherbertson? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Good gracious! What a ridiculous comment! It’s the 21st century but I suppose it is Russia... 13 minutes ago, Ivy Lin said: I'm pretty shocked by some of the comments on Osipova by Russian balletomanes. One of them dismissed her with "she's Jewish." End of story. Nothing more to say for her at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, redshoesgirl2 said: i am not assuming anything. it is basic physics and physiology. without good upper body strength, a man can't lift a woman over his head easily. just as if his legs aren't strong he isn't going to be jumping well. my question was he training enough. just a question, nothing more. Basic physics and physiology and actually health and safety from an office environment show that lifting safely (and not necessarily over your head) requires use of your legs to help your back to cope with the strain. I have always been told that technique matters even more than brute strength. As capybara has pointed out elsewhere some dancers seem easier to lift than others, perhaps because they themselves help more with the lifting process. Perhaps you could contact Mr Hallberg and ask him about his training regime because no-one else knows what he does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redshoesgirl2 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Jan McNulty said: Basic physics and physiology and actually health and safety from an office environment show that lifting safely (and not necessarily over your head) requires use of your legs to help your back to cope with the strain. I have always been told that technique matters even more than brute strength. As capybara has pointed out elsewhere some dancers seem easier to lift than others, perhaps because they themselves help more with the lifting process. Perhaps you could contact Mr Hallberg and ask him about his training regime because no-one else knows what he does. sarcasm literally means to flay the flesh from. so as a form of communication, it is worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redshoesgirl2 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 21 minutes ago, capybara said: I'm sure that I've seen social media references to David Hallberg being in the gym - possibly ones posted by him himself. But, you're right, Janet, the majority of us have no idea about the specifics of any dancer's training regime. and yet above, someone said that Osipova should spend more time in class. i have no idea, i just know what i like to see, how it makes me feel. the only time i've noticed someone shoes is fairly recently the toe was SO long it looked odd because you know the dancers foot is not that long from the arch to the toe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogoat Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 40 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said: I think that is an assumption too far I'm afraid. Many years ago a friend who is a rugby league buff was talking to a player who came back after a serious injury and retired within months. He just said that physically he was fine but had started to feel apprehensive whenever he was playing. His issues were emotional rather than physical. Unless you know what training regime Mr Hallberg uses you are not in a position to comment. Not knowing Mr Hallberg's training regime does not disqualify @redshoesgirl2 making the statement... but if he is not taking time to strengthen his upper body, lifts are not going to work well or be easy. Though it would disqualify her from stating... but if he is not taking time to strengthen his upper body, lifts are not going to work well or be easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 34 minutes ago, redshoesgirl2 said: sarcasm literally means to flay the flesh from. so as a form of communication, it is worthless. I wasn't being sarcastic, I was being serious. 6 minutes ago, Nogoat said: Not knowing Mr Hallberg's training regime does not disqualify @redshoesgirl2 making the statement... but if he is not taking time to strengthen his upper body, lifts are not going to work well or be easy. Though it would disqualify her from stating... but if he is not taking time to strengthen his upper body, lifts are not going to work well or be easy. But she chose to ask a question that none of us knows the answer to and which could lead to unreasonable and unfair speculation. Not that it's got much to do with the price of fish but my dog weighs 8kg but manages to make himself a dead weight when I ask him to move and he won't so I go to lift him and find I can't. When he thinks it is to his advantage to be lifted he is as light as a feather (for example being put in the boot of the car to go to the beach). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob S Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 1 hour ago, redshoesgirl2 said: my question was he training enough. just a question, nothing more. That’s how your post read to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, Rob S said: That’s how your post read to me But how could any of us answer that question? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob S Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Jan McNulty said: But how could any of us answer that question? Is it one of those new fangled rhetorical questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 14 minutes ago, Rob S said: Is it one of those new fangled rhetorical questions? No. How could any of us definitively answer the question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob S Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said: No. How could any of us definitively answer the question? Then you mean yes. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serenade Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 I think it would be a fair assumption that Hallberg will be doing everything in his power to give the best performances he can and get as strong as he can so I’m sure he will have explored every avenue when it comes to improving his strength and the lifts (imo obviously). 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 6 hours ago, Xandra Newman said: Any dancer chooses their pointe shoes according to their own very specific needs, who are we to know what their needs are? We have the luxury to sit back and watch, and one may not like the look of a particular pointe shoe, it is the dancer who has to dance and deliver, not us. Going back to Yasmine Naghdi’s shoes (which certainly do not have “colossal blocks” 🙄), I believe Naghdi wears Freed Studio Professionals. To my eye (as a dance Mum who has spent a LOT of money on pointe shoes over the years) Naghdi’s shoes are average width; not overly wide at all but a nice neat, slightly tapered box. Many Royal Ballet dancers wear Freed due to the extensive customisation available (Lamb wears Bloch and Cojocaru wears very wide-platformed Gaynor Mindens to accommodate her bunions). The width of the box and the amount of tapering is dictated by metatarsal width and the shape of the foot, not to make certain roles easier. Aurora’s balances en pointe are controlled mainly by core strength and work through the entire body and legs, not by how wide the platforms on her pointe shoes are. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 7 hours ago, Beryl H said: I don't know how girls with bunions get their feet into point shoes, I have one on each foot and they can be agony My daughter has one small bunion, Beryl - Freed Classic Pro with soft wings were fine, as are Gaynor Minden pointes which are constructed differently. Some pointe shoes that forced her toes into being overly tapered caused her bunion to flare up badly though. I think it can only be good for dancers today that there are so many different makes and styles of pointe shoes so that those dancers prone to bunions can look after their feet as well as possible. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob S Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Guess the Aurora: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shade Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Last one Osipova 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingrid Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 First one is Fumi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogoat Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, Rob S said: Guess the Aurora: Is this a trick question? I reckon they are all Aurora. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 (edited) Ballet is a highly aesthetic form of art and is loved, first of all, for its beauty. I regret very much that the majority of dancers choose now to dance in shoes with wide blocks. For me it is NOT beautiful. I remember very well the time when ballerinas' points were really pointed like on this photo of Galina Ulanova (37) as Aurora in 1947. Edited November 23, 2019 by Amelia typo 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 All those shoes look a tad clumpy to be honest I’m guessing it’s the same person in each clip? When I went to the Vaganova museum I was surprised how delicate some of the famous dancers shoes on display were! Have got used to seeing more modern shoes. I wish Id kept my last pair of pointe shoes... 35 years ago now ...my memory is ...not as pointy as Ulanova’s ones but not quite as clumpy as ones in Rob S’s clips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivy Lin Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, Amelia said: Ballet is a highly aesthetic form of art and is loved, first of all, for its beauty. I regret very much that the majority of dancers choose now to dance in shoes with wide blocks. For me it is NOT beautiful. I remember very well the time when ballerinas' points were really pointed like on this photo of Galina Ulanova (37) as Aurora in 1947. Anna Pavlova pointe shoes. Look at the thick ugly darning. But she was renowned for the beauty of her dancing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xandra Newman Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Are those very pointed pointe shoes, as in the above photo, still manufactured nowadays? As far as I know they aren''t . All major pointe shoe manufactures sell pointe shoes with wide blocks (surely they are far better for the feet, avoiding bunions in between the toes and on the toes, etc.) 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogoat Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Jan McNulty said: 3 hours ago, Nogoat said: Not knowing Mr Hallberg's training regime does not disqualify @redshoesgirl2 making the statement... but if he is not taking time to strengthen his upper body, lifts are not going to work well or be easy. Though it would disqualify her from stating... but if he is not taking time to strengthen his upper body, lifts are not going to work well or be easy. But she chose to ask a question that none of us knows the answer to and which could lead to unreasonable and unfair speculation. I've now been pointed to a post on a previous page where a question was asked, though the quote/response to which I responded (above) directly addressed a subsequent post that did not contain that earlier question. On a forum such as this - one dealing with a complex mix of knowledge, opinions and emotions - clarity is key to avoid misunderstandings, especially when criticism/rebuke is concerned. After all, we only have the written word - ok, we've also got links; and embedded videos; and pictures; and 'likes'; and messages; and moderators; but it's still a tricky communication medium. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Are you sure they are Pavlova's shoes ....except that my memory is that they were hardly pointe shoes at all!! Perhaps I'm remembering the wrong persons shoes....maybe there were some shoes there from before Pavlova? I can't remember whether you were allowed to take pictures in the Vaganova museum but if you were the other friends with me all had iPhones with them so may have taken a picture of this display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob S Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 And the answers are: Naghdi Hayward Osipova There are no winners tonight so the prize pot rolls over to next week and stands at an estimated 75p 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, Rob S said: And the answers are: Naghdi Hayward Osipova There are no winners tonight so the prize pot rolls over to next week and stands at an estimated 75p Shouldn't the prize be a signed pointe shoe?! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivy Lin Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 17 minutes ago, LinMM said: Are you sure they are Pavlova's shoes ....except that my memory is that they were hardly pointe shoes at all!! Perhaps I'm remembering the wrong persons shoes....maybe there were some shoes there from before Pavlova? I can't remember whether you were allowed to take pictures in the Vaganova museum but if you were the other friends with me all had iPhones with them so may have taken a picture of this display. It was Taglioni who barely had pointe shoes. Pavlova was the first to wear big blocks and had a leather sole to strengthen the insole. It was considered "cheating" back then. Pavlova retouched all her pictures because she was sensitive about this. Here are other examples of her shoes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Ah yes you must be right Ivy Lin .....as I know some of the pointe shoes were quite ancient and with one of the pairs ...must be Taglioni then ...the shoes didn't seem to have an awful lot of support at all in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legseleven Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 31 minutes ago, Rob S said: And the answers are: Naghdi Hayward Osipova There are no winners tonight so the prize pot rolls over to next week and stands at an estimated 75p I would have said from these photos that the platforms of these pointe shoes range from the smallest being Naghdi’s and the widest being Osipova’s. Naghdi’s certainly are not ‘colossal blocks’ and indeed the largest blocks of these three seem to be Osipova’s. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 So glad my favourite ballerina has my favourite pair of feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob S Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 1 hour ago, bridiem said: Shouldn't the prize be a signed pointe shoe?! Oh don’t talk about talk to me about signed pointe shoes, I missed out on Tamara Rojo’s in the recent charity auction because I misjudged its end time!! 🙄 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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