Royal Ballet Sleeping Beauty, 2019-20

[redshoesgirl2]

i don't see the first episode on youtube, at least labeled as such. 2-6 are there...

[Lizbie1]

4 minutes ago, redshoesgirl2 said:

i don't see the first episode on youtube, at least labeled as such. 2-6 are there...

 

Here: 

 

[redshoesgirl2]

Merci beaucoup!

[JohnS]

I think it’s in the 5th episode ‘Settling Scores’ when Nicholas Payne, Director of Opera, really let’s rip at having to meet benefactors.  Certainly caused a stir at the time and you could feel the tension when he had to announce cast changes fairly soon after the broadcast.

[bridiem]

50 minutes ago, bridiem said:

The irony being that with the benefit of hindsight we know that the production, the overspend on which was at least in part justified by the fact that it would last 'decades', would in fact only last one decade before it was replaced by the (short-lived) Makarova production in 2004.

 

Actually I see the Makarova production was 2003, not 2004 - so not even a decade of the previous production.

[Lindsay]

46 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

I remember the furore over it when it was first aired and - naive and enthralled as I was with the scale and quality of the actual performances being put on - wondered at the time why it was seen as such an own goal.

 

When I came across it again a few years ago, it was very clear what I'd missed first time around: there's some serious incompetence on display from managers. In the first episode, I'd also single out the attitude of the Opera Company Manager towards the excellent and very likeable Denyce Graves as unpleasant and unprofessional.

 

It comes across as a poisonous place to have worked back then.

I think “unpleasant and unprofessional” is a very charitable way of describing her behaviour Lizbie1......

 

I used to temp at the ROH in the 90s (a couple of years after this so I do not feature in the programme, although my husband does) and do remember it being incredibly ‘jobsworthy’ and unprofessional in some departments.  There were quite a few people who had been there for years and considered their way of doing things sacrosanct (for no particular reason except that it had “always been done that way”) and who looked down upon any incoming staff or visiting artists.  Especially if they were “foreign”.  Unless they were an acknowledged “star” in which case they fawned all over them.  Put me right off a career in the arts!

[serenade]

4 hours ago, Shade said:

Gosh that had to one of the most toxic reviews I have ever read. Did mr monahan drink a pint of bile before writing it?

 

I was there and I had bins and didn’t see the same things at all. 

 

Same. 

 

I really loved the whole night and am surprised by the review.  I splashed out on one ticket for this run (and will see the cinema broadcast when it eventually happens!) and managed to get front row of stalls which I've never managed to get before so that was amazing.  I don't think that her Aurora is ever going to be as good as her Giselle or Kitri for example but she's still gives a great performance.  For me, it was definitely not the best Rose Adagio I've ever seen...but it wasn't bad in the way this reviewer makes it sound (not to my eyes anyway).  I thought her energy was maybe a bit too much Natalia and not enough Aurora until after the Rose Adagio was done but then as the night went on I did believe she was Aurora and believed in her and the Prince's relationship also so I thought it was overall a well rounded performance.  And anyway, there's many ways you can play Aurora...

 

I got caught up in the performance so much I didn't notice the missing lifts but I did think some bits of the PDD's were a bit underwheming (so it was probably that that did it).  The first PDD the lifts didn't look as effortless as (I think) they should, I thought they looked a bit heavy to be honest.  I loved his solos and his beautiful dancing generally...some of it wasn't perfect but overall I thought  I didn't notice anything wrong with the fish dives but I am definitely no expert...but they looked good to me.  

 

I thought Magri was such a great Lilac Fairy...she brought really warmth to the role which I think is important.  Loved Arestis' Carabosse...one of my favourite performances of the role...very icy.  Anna Rose O'Sullivan was the standout for me in the Fairy variations.  And all of the Act 3 divertissement's were great.  Overally really enjoyed it.  Also, on a personal note I've been waiting a long time to see Hallberg in Sleeping Beauty.  I used to hate the Sleeping Beauty and think it was basically a snorefest until I watched the Bolshoi DVD version a few years ago with Hallberg and Zakharova which blew me away.  So at last I saw him in the flesh...albeit not at his peak but still pretty great.  I really love the choreography for the prince's entrance in the Bolshoi version...it's sad he doesn't get a grand entrance in the RB.  Had to share this video of Hallberg, it's from the DVD that turned me into a Sleeping Beauty fan...

 

 

[LinMM]

Hallberg looks really great in that video ...thanks for posting.

[assoluta]

7 hours ago, JNC said:

What I was trying to say was if any dancer is technically unable to perform the choreography (and yes, everyone has off nights I accept that) they shouldn't be dancing it.

Not so simple and, fortunately, this was never the case. What separates a great artist from an average one is not just the level of technical competence, especially if by technique one understands a narrowly defined repertory of acrobatic tricks. The more you know about ballet the better you understand that some of the greatest artists of the past couldn't do certain things or were so afraid of doing them, they wouldn't want to do them on stage. Thus, I wasn't particularly persuaded in Mark Monahan's report by his complaint about Osipova not holding the balances in Rose Adagio. Yes, they look terrific, when properly done, yet they hold no value for me if I see that Aurora's pointe shoes boast colossal blocs like, e.g., Miss Naghdi's. This will offset any esthetic pleasure I might otherwise have. For me a problem with Osipova's Aurora lies elsewhere and manifested in a way similar to her recent misreading of Raymonda, something that Monahan noticed too.

[Sim]

1 hour ago, LinMM said:

Hallberg looks really great in that video ...thanks for posting.

Now THAT is how a prince should make an entrance!!

[maryrosesatonapin]

1 hour ago, serenade said:

 

I used to hate the Sleeping Beauty and think it was basically a snorefest until I watched the Bolshoi DVD version a few years ago with Hallberg and Zakharova which blew me away.  So at last I saw him in the flesh...albeit not at his peak but still pretty great. 

 

Thank you for posting that video, @serenade - Hallberg is the epitome of a ballet prince here.  It makes me wish I had seen him dance live at the height of his powers.

[serenade]

36 minutes ago, Sim said:

Now THAT is how a prince should make an entrance!!

Haha absolutely! And that music is just crying out for something spectacular... 

 

35 minutes ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

Thank you for posting that video, @serenade - Hallberg is the epitome of a ballet prince here.  It makes me wish I had seen him dance live at the height of his powers.

 

pleased you enjoyed it- me too, so much 

[redshoesgirl2]

9 hours ago, Shade said:

Gosh that had to one of the most toxic reviews I have ever read. Did mr monahan drink a pint of bile before writing it?

 

I was there and I had bins and didn’t see the same things at all. 

i've noticed that reviewers and just plain folks online find it acceptable to totally trash Osipova. complaining about her back, her shoes, her arms, her hands, her pelvis, everything. i've never noticed any other dancer being subjected to same sort of nastiness. there were some really unpleasant people on facebook who were just demeaning her and her shoes for heaven's sake.

there are dancers i am not fond of, but i am not going to express what i consider their faults ad nauseum.

it's sad.

[redshoesgirl2]

2 hours ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

Thank you for posting that video, @serenade - Hallberg is the epitome of a ballet prince here.  It makes me wish I had seen him dance live at the height of his powers.

i saw him on a Kings of Dance tour several years ago. he was absolutely riveting. i only had one complaint, he wore a big black pleated skirt during one of his solos. i mean, here is a guy with some of the best legs in the business, and they dress him in a skirt. 

[redshoesgirl2]

6 hours ago, LinMM said:

Hallberg looks really great in that video ...thanks for posting.

i totally agree! i think he wrote about that entrance in his book, or talked about it in an interview, his introduction to the russians!

[redshoesgirl2]

19 hours ago, Tebasile said:

It wasn't that bad. I did think that Osipova could perhaps do with going to class a bit more often, but she still brought something individual and special to the role. At times her dancing was breathtakingly beautiful; at others, it was messy and disappointing. I have often felt this ambivalence with her performances, but I would still rather see her than someone who does all the steps perfectly but dances without flourish or personality. Though I agree with some of the misgivings about her technique in the Rose Adagio, I loved her characterisation here. Why does every princess have to be shy and reserved? It's her 16th (or 20th) birthday party, after all. I was actually more disappointed with Hallberg who, though elegant, was rather weak in the 3rd act, and the fact that they had to change the choreography to avoid some lifts flattened the overall effect. They certainly don't have much chemistry, but I don't think anyone's to blame for that. 

do you think hallberg simply needs to work out in the gym more? to become stronger?

[Legseleven]

6 hours ago, assoluta said:

Not so simple and, fortunately, this was never the case. What separates a great artist from an average one is not just the level of technical competence, especially if by technique one understands a narrowly defined repertory of acrobatic tricks. The more you know about ballet the better you understand that some of the greatest artists of the past couldn't do certain things or were so afraid of doing them, they wouldn't want to do them on stage. Thus, I wasn't particularly persuaded in Mark Monahan's report by his complaint about Osipova not holding the balances in Rose Adagio. Yes, they look terrific, when properly done, yet they hold no value for me if I see that Aurora's pointe shoes boast colossal blocs like, e.g., Miss Naghdi's. This will offset any esthetic pleasure I might otherwise have. For me a problem with Osipova's Aurora lies elsewhere and manifested in a way similar to her recent misreading of Raymonda, something that Monahan noticed too.

Are Yasmine Naghdi’s pointe shoes somehow different from the norm? Other than different shapes of block, lengths of vamp etc in different brands and models of pointe shoes and different dancers’ preferences as to how softened their shoes are for various roles, I hadn’t appreciated that some shoes have ‘colossal blocks’ as you say that Naghdi’s do? I think I have read that she wears Bloch pointe shoes but haven’t read anything about their being anything out of the ordinary.

[Legseleven]

On thinking about it further, I remember that when my daughter first wore Grishko Vaganova pointe shoes, she said that their very small platform required an initial adjustment period of a couple of lessons but that after that she was able to balance in them just as well as she had done in shoes with wider platforms because they suited her feet with their long vamp etc. She was never aiming to dance professionally, so I would think that Osipova or Naghdi or any Royal Ballet principal dancer would have no difficulty adjusting to and balancing in pointe shoes with a wider or narrower platform if required?

Some pointe shoes do look much more square than others but presumably every dancer wears the shoes which suit her feet best - and might wear different shoes for different roles with different requirements?
 

[Jan McNulty]

2 hours ago, redshoesgirl2 said:

do you think hallberg simply needs to work out in the gym more? to become stronger?

 

I doubt it.  He has recently come back from a very serious injury (he was out for a couple of years) and that could change many aspects of a dancer's performance.

[Lizbie1]

10 hours ago, Lindsay said:

I think “unpleasant and unprofessional” is a very charitable way of describing her behaviour Lizbie1....

 

I suspect we're on the same page here!

 

IMO almost the only people to emerge with credit intact are the performers themselves.

[Sim]

I have never noticed Yasmine Naghdi’s pointe shoes being any different from anyone else’s (and I have been watching her feet for many years!).  The only example I can think of as having noticeably large blocks is Alina Cojocaru, and only because of a large bunion.  

[maryrosesatonapin]

49 minutes ago, Sim said:

I have never noticed Yasmine Naghdi’s pointe shoes being any different from anyone else’s (and I have been watching her feet for many years!).  The only example I can think of as having noticeably large blocks is Alina Cojocaru, and only because of a large bunion.  

I searched for some pics on line and came up with these: (Top - gorgeous Fonteyn!, middle Naghdi, bottom Osipova)

Edited November 23, 2019 by maryrosesatonapin
To say what the pics were

[Beryl H]

I don't know how girls with bunions get their feet into point shoes, I have one on each foot and they can be agony

[Shade]

9

7 hours ago, redshoesgirl2 said:

i've noticed that reviewers and just plain folks online find it acceptable to totally trash Osipova. complaining about her back, her shoes, her arms, her hands, her pelvis, everything. i've never noticed any other dancer being subjected to same sort of nastiness. there were some really unpleasant people on facebook who were just demeaning her and her shoes for heaven's sake.

there are dancers i am not fond of, but i am not going to express what i consider their faults ad nauseum.

it's sad.

That’s very true. There were some nasty comments on the Raymonda clip on the ROH Facebook page. No other RB dancer seems to generate such nasty comments. I wonder if it is because Osipova is Russian, from the Bolshoi.

 

with respect JNCs comment above - I had every reason to know that Osipova can dance the choreography of both Swan Lake and Beauty as I have already seen her perform both at the RB previously. I had made considerable changes to my personal and work diaries to attend this week and I would have been very disappointed if the casting had been changed. Indeed, I recall the angst  when she was injured and couldn’t perform SB and Giselle. People would have booked months in advance and may have traveled from overseas to see Osipova and Hallberg this week. Where I was sitting there were quite a few Americans, for example.
 

[Xandra Newman]

 

Any dancer chooses their pointe shoes according to their own very specific needs, who are we to know what their needs are? We have the luxury to sit back and watch, and one may not like the look of a particular pointe shoe, it is the dancer who has to dance and deliver, not us.

[Lindsay]

1 hour ago, Shade said:

9

That’s very true. There were some nasty comments on the Raymonda clip on the ROH Facebook page. No other RB dancer seems to generate such nasty comments. I wonder if it is because Osipova is Russian, from the Bolshoi.

 

with respect JNCs comment above - I had every reason to know that Osipova can dance the choreography of both Swan Lake and Beauty as I have already seen her perform both at the RB previously. I had made considerable changes to my personal and work diaries to attend this week and I would have been very disappointed if the casting had been changed. Indeed, I recall the angst  when she was injured and couldn’t perform SB and Giselle. People would have booked months in advance and may have traveled from overseas to see Osipova and Hallberg this week. Where I was sitting there were quite a few Americans, for example.
 

I think it’s because Osipova is one of the most famous ballerinas in the world - amongst the RB dancers only Nunez comes anywhere close in terms of global name recognition.  And because right from the beginning of her career Osipova made bold artistic choices and her physical gifts and stage presence immediately marked her out as something quite different from the ‘ordinary’ run of talented ballerinas.  She is an absolute phenomenon and so people are more likely to have strong opinions about her, for good or for bad, then they will about dancers who turn in excellent but more conventional and predictable performances.  

[assoluta]

2 hours ago, Xandra Newman said:

Any dancer chooses their pointe shoes according to their own very specific needs...

 

Within certain limits, yes, "any dancer is entitled to choose according to their own ...," etc. The abuse of what is allowed leads to what we are witnessing now: a catastrophic situation with the pointe shoes. Regretfully, the Royal Ballet has been at the avantgarde of this destructive movement, this is why for some London ballet goers there may be nothing to be concerned about. The photo of Margot Fonteyn posted above provides an excellent illustration of what I am talking about, one can see her pointe shoes, together with the size and the shape of the blocs. Now, compare this with the two photos of Miss Naghdi posted earlier in this thread by Rob S. You'll have a clear view of the shoes, together with the size and the shape of the blocs, worn by Naghdi in her last Aurora appearance. Another, truly shocking, comparison was on display at the Royal Opera House earlier this year: the pointes and the tutus of Fonteyn and, I believe, Nuñez, were displayed next to each other.

[capybara]

A few observations about the various issues emerging above.

 

1) Some dancers appear to give more 'help' to their partners in terms of 'lift off' than others do. Maybe that is as much an issue as male dancer strength?

2) The technical expectations have grown so much that it is surely to be expected that dancers' 'equipment', including their shoes, will evolve over time.

3) There has been a kind of 'golden bubble' surrounding Natalia Osipova dating back to her early appearances with the Bolshoi and it feels that that has been pricked and the door is now open for comment to be made on her performances. While that is to be welcomed in some ways, I just hope that people will continue to show some restraint (and due respect) in what they say on social media in particular.

[redshoesgirl2]

6 hours ago, Jan McNulty said:

 

I doubt it.  He has recently come back from a very serious injury (he was out for a couple of years) and that could change many aspects of a dancer's performance.

actually he was out for more than 2.5 years, came back, and on his first night back - at the ROH no less last year, was injured again. i would imagine as he approaches the time when many male dancers retire, he dances with a certain apprehension.

but if he is not taking time to strengthen his upper body,  lifts are not going to work well or be easy.

[Lizbie1]

38 minutes ago, capybara said:

There has been a kind of 'golden bubble' surrounding Natalia Osipova dating back to her early appearances with the Bolshoi

 

That may have been the case elsewhere, but not on these forums, or at least not since I've been following them closely. My perception has been that a number of people here are quicker to criticise Osipova than other female RB principals.

[Jan McNulty]

10 minutes ago, redshoesgirl2 said:

but if he is not taking time to strengthen his upper body,  lifts are not going to work well or be easy.

 

I think that is an assumption too far I'm afraid.

 

Many years ago a friend who is a rugby league buff was talking to a player who came back after a serious injury and retired within months.  He just said that physically he was fine but had started to feel apprehensive whenever he was playing.  His issues were emotional rather than physical.  Unless you know what training regime Mr Hallberg uses you are not in a position to comment.

[capybara]

I'm sure that I've seen social media references to David Hallberg being in the gym - possibly ones posted by him himself. But, you're right, Janet, the majority of us have no idea about the specifics of any dancer's training regime.

 

[Ivy Lin]

I'm pretty shocked by some of the comments on Osipova by Russian balletomanes. One of them dismissed her with "she's Jewish." End of story. Nothing more to say for her at least.