RB Concerto / Enigma Variations / Raymonda Act III, 2019

[bridiem]

21 minutes ago, MJW said:

 

I get an automated message after a visit, saying they hoped I enjoyed a performance and asking me to complete a survey  - it only has two questions: did I enjoy it (1 to 10) and would I recommend someone to visit (1 to 10)

 

Like those surveys you get after a hospital appointment - would you recommend us to your friends?! (At least they don't ask if you enjoyed it.)

[alison]

It's actually the accompanying email that's worse - it makes it sound as though it's going to be quite an in-depth survey, and then it's the shallowest I've ever seen.

[Sebastian]

On 06/11/2019 at 12:23, Two Pigeons said:

However, the whole performance was remarkable for the truly tremendous Laura Morea as Lady Elgar.  I am so pleased to have seen her in an Ashton role, and one she so obviously understood.  I never saw Beriosova in the role but I felt, accurately or otherwise, that I had seen the nearest thing.  She was Alice Elgar as she would like to have been, to partially quote the bon mot about Monica Mason being Alice as she actually was.  It should never be forgotten that Elgar had all his major successes during the time he was married to her and that they ceased with her death.  She was his true inspiration and I really felt that with Morea.

 

Completely agree

[Dawnstar]

17 hours ago, JNC said:

I also think it must be pretty demanding to dance a role numerous times - dancing Manon twice is surely less demanding than dancing Manon four times?

 

14 hours ago, Douglas Allen said:

JNC No, not at all. Why do you say that? All the evidence from the past suggests otherwise and all the dancers I know would reject your assertion. No-one is suggesting that they dance three shows a day.

 

I would have thought it would be less demanding for a dancer to rehearse a role & give 4 performances of it than to rehearse 2 roles & give 2 performances of each during the same time frame. I also wonder if it is harder for dancers to have to do different performance styles in close proximity? For instance, doing pure classical with a lot of pointe work one day and modern dance with no pointe work the next.

[JNC]

5 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

 

I would have thought it would be less demanding for a dancer to rehearse a role & give 4 performances of it than to rehearse 2 roles & give 2 performances of each during the same time frame. I also wonder if it is harder for dancers to have to do different performance styles in close proximity? For instance, doing pure classical with a lot of pointe work one day and modern dance with no pointe work the next.

 

I have no actual knowledge as I’m not a dancer and haven’t spoken to dancers about this directly so it was just an opinion/thought! Fully imagine that you and @Douglas Allen are more likely correct on this point. 

 

I do however still maintain (in my opinion) that dancers would prefer to dance a variety of roles rather than one - if the choice is between dancing Manon four times, but not Aurora at all, or vice versa, or dancing Manon twice and Aurora twice I believe most would likely choose the latter, but again I may be wrong! 

 

I note that for Sleeping Beauty most are getting three performances of Aurora (with the exception of Kaneko/O’Sullivan who are arguably very lucky to be dancing it all, not suggesting they are undeserving of this but in the sense it’s clearly a ‘test’ and gift from O’Hare rather than because they need that many Auroras) so if Manon had a longer run there may have been more performances. Ok three isn’t quite four performances but I think it allows a dancer considerable opportunity to solidify themselves in a role, whilst also giving the audience good diversity of casting choices. 

[Ingrid]

1 hour ago, JNC said:

I do however still maintain (in my opinion) that dancers would prefer to dance a variety of roles rather than one - if the choice is between dancing Manon four times, but not Aurora at all, or vice versa, or dancing Manon twice and Aurora twice I believe most would likely choose the latter, but again I may be wrong! 

 

 

Isn't that the reason (meaning the diversity of roles and repertoire) why so many principal dancers in smaller companies later join a bigger company ( like William Bracewell did ) or in the case of the Vaganova school students some prefer the Bolshoi over the Mariinksy? It would be great if the dancers had on average 3 performances to find and develop their roles but I understand that KOH tries his best to give his dancers oportunities, and many dancers have said in interviews ( in english and others in their native language)  how much they appreciate his efforts to do so.

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Ingrid
Punctuation.

[Dawnstar]

@JNC I assure you I have no expert knowledge whatsoever & am therefore far more likely to be wrong! What little I know about rehearsals & performances is based on years of going to opera, musicals & plays. Ballet, which I've only been seeing regularly for the last year, seems to be a very different beast & therefore at times confuses me!

[JNC]

3 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

@JNC I assure you I have no expert knowledge whatsoever & am therefore far more likely to be wrong! What little I know about rehearsals & performances is based on years of going to opera, musicals & plays. Ballet, which I've only been seeing regularly for the last year, seems to be a very different beast & therefore at times confuses me!

 

I think we’re on the same page there! I find it all fascinating though and have learnt a lot through more learned members on this forum! 

[HelenLoveAppleJuice]

3 hours ago, Ingrid said:

 

Isn't that the reason (meaning the diversity of roles and repertoire) why so many principal dancers in smaller companies later join a bigger company ( like William Bracewell did ) or in the case of the Vaganova school students some prefer the Bolshoi over the Mariinksy? It would be great if the dancers had on average 3 performances to find and develop their roles but I understand that KOH tries his best to give his dancers oportunities, and many dancers have said in interviews ( in english and others in their native language)  how much they appreciate his efforts to do so.

 

 

This is part of reason. And I want to also add marketing and contracts factors into the discussion of casting.

 

First I agree that 2 performances per pair Manon/Des Grieux with so many pairs sounds not ideal.

 

But regarding of rehearsal efforts, actually only debuting/opening/filming pair will be on the very-effort-consuming end. Others will spend a lot of rehearsal time together with other casts, and a bit of time of solo rehearsal with coaches. I saw a photo of La Bayadère rehearsal for Nikiya/Solor. All pairs were together in a room. (Corrales with Osipova, Vadim with Núñez and many others). 

 

Some ballets, like Manon, Nutcracker, Sleeping Beauty, are on stage very often in RoH. Thus for a senior principle who has danced the production a lot, it won't request a lot of efforts for them to rehearsal. So it will be more a question of if they are willing to dance this round. For junior principles, it may ask for more efforts but they are more on wish-to-dance side.

 

So the real question for KOH is who will be given the chance of debuting considering the costume costs(most of principle roles will get personal fit costume) and rehearsal cost. 

 

Also take into consideration is marketing. 

 

I hate to say but it is a fact that technique is not the only requirement to become a principle, but also the ability to attract a fan base, often related to dancer's background, nationality, looking, and many other factors. Thus every principle has some fan base, small or big. It may play very big for some people on deciding if they will go to the ballet. For example, when I was living in San Francisco Bay Area, I received friends coming to visit California from East Asia often. They won't consider to go to a show in SF Ballet, as ballet is not a thing-to-do for a California trip. But they will be interested if Yuanyuan Tan on stage, as she is a famous figure for them. Same things happen more or less here in London as well.

 

Thus in Royal Ballet, they will try to analyses fan base and how to schedule some shows to attract them. And deciding how many shows is needed/enough to satisfy a fan base.

 

Some stars, like Osipova and Nuñez, will have contracts with the company about how many shows they will have on RB stage. KOH will definitely be happy to schedule as many as performance with Nunez, but she will, of course, wish to spend some time on other locations. This round of Manon have Nunez/Bolle, Osipova/Hallberg(I know some of you have doubt on him but he is still a big ticket selling star), kind of world level stars. I doubt that if we can negotiate more than 2 shows per pair. Also want to point out that I am quite impressed by Vadim Muntagirov. He is certainly a star now and he is still very flexible and super hard working for RoH. He took many extra shows as supplement for injured colleges and paired with multiple ballerina for a single round. Especially for something like Don Quixote, it is very effort consuming to pair with another ballerina. No doubt that KOH gives so many filming opportunities as kind of reward. He is really working hard.

 

I am not concerning about effort cost of Manon. The big challenge this season should be Coppelia and Raymonda, not very often on RB stage, difficult especially on female side. Most of current leading principles/soloists have not danced it. Swanilda is a very heavily demanding role, virtually have to dancing all time in Act 1&2. And in Raymonda, each variation is hard.

So I am quite disappoint that Osipova is not scheduled to dance Swanilda, as the only two principles in current RB fleet, has danced Coppelia and really has a reputation for it. (Correct me if I am wrong but AFAIK, the only other is Marianela Nunez who debuted in 2006. Yuhui Choe danced Coppelia PDD on other stages before)

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by HelenLoveAppleJuice

[Dawnstar]

I'm reading the Seen and Heard review of the triple bill cinecast, posted in today's links, and I'm baffled by the reviewer saying "Muntagirov is always the most elegant of dancers with bravura leaps and the softest of soft landings. I just wish he didn’t make everything look so easy". I thought one of the main aims of ballet was to try to make difficult movements look easy & that Muntagirov is so highly thought of because he is so good at this. So why does the reviewer complain about it?

[Shade]

Interesting post Helen. I too am disappointed that Osipova is not dancing Swanilda. I well recall her Bolshoi performance, albeit I only saw it in the cinema. I wonder if she didn’t want to dance it.

[JNC]

28 minutes ago, Shade said:

Interesting post Helen. I too am disappointed that Osipova is not dancing Swanilda. I well recall her Bolshoi performance, albeit I only saw it in the cinema. I wonder if she didn’t want to dance it.

 

I too am disappointed Osipova is not dancing Swanilda. I think she would be great in the role - but then to be honest, when I look at casting choices for Coppelia I want to see all the casts as all look like a perfect fit! 

 

@HelenLoveAppleJuice your post is very interesting, I hadn't even thought about factoring in dancers' non ROH international commitments into scheduling. You are right - Nunez/Osipova particularly seem to do a lot of international appearances (e.g. Nunez in Milan recently with La Scala and Osipova in London/Sydney with her Pure Dance programme) so perhaps they really only can do a limited number of performances due to these other commitments. 

 

I have to say I did feel it was slightly unfair for Hamilton/Clarke not to get 2 performances of Manon - it seems a lot of effort just for one performance, which wasn't even open to the public anyway...I think 2 performances should be a minimum, and preferably 3 considering discussions above about absorbing a role etc. But I conclude by saying I think O'Hare is doing a great job with casting, ensuring a good spread of roles and opportunities across the ranks as well as giving the principals new challenges too. The company is in a very strong position at the moment. 

 

Thanks all for sharing thoughts/contributions on the mixed bill and other interesting topical asides! 

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by JNC

[bridiem]

37 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

I'm reading the Seen and Heard review of the triple bill cinecast, posted in today's links, and I'm baffled by the reviewer saying "Muntagirov is always the most elegant of dancers with bravura leaps and the softest of soft landings. I just wish he didn’t make everything look so easy". I thought one of the main aims of ballet was to try to make difficult movements look easy & that Muntagirov is so highly thought of because he is so good at this. So why does the reviewer complain about it?

 

Yes - if he was a fellow dancer I could understand it since it could induce exasperation or envy! But for a reviewer, it is indeed baffling.

[Balletfanp]

46 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

I'm reading the Seen and Heard review of the triple bill cinecast, posted in today's links, and I'm baffled by the reviewer saying "Muntagirov is always the most elegant of dancers with bravura leaps and the softest of soft landings. I just wish he didn’t make everything look so easy". I thought one of the main aims of ballet was to try to make difficult movements look easy & that Muntagirov is so highly thought of because he is so good at this. So why does the reviewer complain about it?

I read that and thought it was one of the more fatuous comments I have seen from a reviewer. Why on earth would you want it to look effortful? It’s one of the things I love about Muntagirov mainly - but some others too - that he makes the most fiendish choreography look like a walk in the park. I don’t want it to look like hard work.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Balletfanp

[Rachel H]

23 hours ago, capybara said:

 

A really good idea. Have you got time to write in about this @Rachel.H ?

 

I tagged the ROH when I mentioned it from my own Twitter feed. I didn't get a reply, but wouldn't necessarily expect one in that context. It'd be interesting to see if they were to implement any suggestion  (I say in hope more than anything else).

[HelenLoveAppleJuice]

2 hours ago, JNC said:

 

I too am disappointed Osipova is not dancing Swanilda. I think she would be great in the role - but then to be honest, when I look at casting choices for Coppelia I want to see all the casts as all look like a perfect fit! 

 

I noticed that she is not on stage for RB for most of December last year and this year. Her last performance 2018 is Symphony in C in the triple bill ended in beginning of December if I recalled correctly. And this year 2019 her last is Sleeping Beauty December 2nd. And returning on Jan 18, 2020 for the Onegin. This round Coppelia is starting Nov 28 and heavily focusing on holiday pierod. It seems to be a pattern for her to spend pre-Christmas and Christmas out of London.

 

It is not unusual for a star level principle to ask for a longer rest over holiday. Nunez also has her last performance at Dec 10. Usually pre-Christmas is nutcracker season and it sells no need with big names, also a good chance for junior dancer to get a bigger role. This year is special by the return of Coppelia.

 

I doubt that it is possible to schedule 2+ shows with her within Nov 28- early December possible. And plus, if the filming is going to Nunez, then the schedule will be planned around Nunez availability for the best.

 

PS: No wonder Vadim is getting slimmer and slimmer. He has to debut&film for Raymonda and Coppelia (does he danced those role before?), and do Sleeping Beauty with both Nunez and Osipova. Rehears Onegin. Franz in Coppelia and Onegin are both heavy role....

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by HelenLoveAppleJuice

[capybara]

HelenLoveAppleJuice - I don't want to appear rude but you appear to be making a lot of assumptions and presenting them as if they were facts. Across your recent posts, I believe - no, I know - that you are mistaken on several counts. The practice in one company is not necessarily replicated elsewhere. 

[HelenLoveAppleJuice]

On 07/11/2019 at 18:57, Ingrid said:

I’m gonna write my thoughts on the triple bill over the weekend but couldn’t pass up saying that I wish Magri was up for variation 4 on the cinema relay after all the rave reviews she received. From what I read in pretty much all the reviews is that she was the one who was really swinging and going for it. 

 

I did not see Magri in Variation 4.

For the filming performance, I have to say that I am not impressed by Beatriz Stix-Brunell's performance variation 4. I have enjoyed many of her performances and really like her smiling nature. But this time her steps/jumps were a bit messy. 

 

Comparing with POB filming one, Dorothée Gilbert did this variation in almost same choreography much better. 

 

Hope that they will use Magri footage if it is also recorded in DVD

Edited November 8, 2019 by HelenLoveAppleJuice

[HelenLoveAppleJuice]

25 minutes ago, capybara said:

HelenLoveAppleJuice - I don't want to appear rude but you appear to be making a lot of assumptions and presenting them as if they were facts. Across your recent posts, I believe - no, I know - that you are mistaken on several counts. The practice in one company is not necessarily replicated elsewhere. 

 

Thanks very much for your comments. I wish to make it clear that I don't have insights of RB management other than their public disclosure information. I have friends working in opera and dancing industry. And I want to put it into record that the post today I made are answer from my understanding of why so many pairs of Manon are scheduled. Of course, the practice in one company is not same at other places. And don't take my comments as accountable about RB.

 

I will try to put attributes and references into my post as many as possible but also happy to hear from you, either directly or in private message, about my misunderstanding part. Happy to extend my knowledge.

 

[Jam Dancer]

11 hours ago, HelenLoveAppleJuice said:

 

I did not see Magri in Variation 4.

For the filming performance, I have to say that I am not impressed by Beatriz Stix-Brunell's performance variation 4. I have enjoyed many of her performances and really like her smiling nature. But this time her steps/jumps were a bit messy. 

 

Comparing with POB filming one, Dorothée Gilbert did this variation in almost same choreography much better. 

 

Hope that they will use Magri footage if it is also recorded in DVD

Gilbert is a principal with POB so I would expect her to be better and perhaps she has danced the role before? 

[LinMM]

To be honest I can't really see Osipova as Swanhilda .....now that is!

In many ways the role should suit that feisty side of Osipova but somehow I always think this role really suits the younger dancers and is a good way to try out these younger dancers in a main role. Although there are some tricky solos it's not hugely demanding on other levels. 

I'm sure a few years back Osipova would have been great in it but now ....I'm not so sure it's for her. 

 

[Fiz]

Didn’t Osipova leave the Bolshoi because she was only ever given soubrette roles? Perhaps Swanhilda reminds her of that? 

[LinMM]

Well she did dance a lot of Don Q there as well but that is a bit more demanding than Swanhilda 

I’m not putting the role down ....I’d love to do it it’s a bit of fun ( have danced Franz at amateur level ha ha) I had a terrible job trying not to laugh some nights ...it’s definitely a jolly ballet to perform but I think the main role is for the younger ones as it’s even a sillier storyline than Fille........

[FionaM]

Regarding gaps over December/January for Osipova and Nunez, I’d guess they have international commitments elsewhere?  North (ABT?) and South America respectively?  Or guesting elsewhere ....

 

Thanks to KOH’s enlightened management these principals and many other RB dancers are increasingly juggling external projects and guesting elsewhere with RB repertoire (eg. Melissa Hamilton with BRB in Northern Ireland this weekend, Valentino Zucchetti’s Bolero in Mexico a week ago, to name just two).  Hoorah.  

[Jan McNulty]

10 minutes ago, FionaE said:

 

Thanks to KOH’s enlightened management these principals and many other RB dancers are increasingly juggling external projects and guesting elsewhere with RB repertoire (eg. Melissa Hamilton with BRB in Northern Ireland this weekend, Valentino Zucchetti’s Bolero in Mexico a week ago, to name just two).  Hoorah.  

 

Hoorah as long as they are still able to fully meet their commitments at RB.

[capybara]

14 hours ago, HelenLoveAppleJuice said:

I will try to put attributes and references into my post as many as possible but also happy to hear from you, either directly or in private message, about my misunderstanding part. Happy to extend my knowledge.

 

It is very tempting to respond to this invitation but it would be getting this Forum into areas of discussion which are personal to dancers or concern matters which are private within companies. 

[FionaM]

49 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

 

Hoorah as long as they are still able to fully meet their commitments at RB.

 

What I was trying to say, is that many dancers appear now to be able to negotiate their future external schedules and RB commitments with RB management.  So someone like Natalia Osipova might choose to not participate in this run of Coppelia, if she has something more interesting to do or prepare for, from her point of view.  After all, it’s their career and it’s a short career, so each dancer must use it to their satisfaction, not anyone else’s view or demands.

[Lizbie1]

33 minutes ago, FionaE said:

What I was trying to say, is that many dancers appear now to be able to negotiate their future external schedules and RB commitments with RB management.

 

Hasn’t this been the case for a long time anyway when it comes to the most senior principals?

[FionaM]

24 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

Hasn’t this been the case for a long time anyway when it comes to the most senior principals?

 

It depends what you mean by a ‘long time’ and ‘the most senior principals’.  

 

So yes it has been the case for a few years.   Although not as long as one might think.  Eg.  this was one of Sergei Polunin’s reasons for leaving in 2012, and that’s only 7 years ago.  On the other hand Sylvie Guillem before that was able to dictate her schedule.   

 

However this wasn’t the track I was heading down, I was originally responding to the comments about the gaps over December/January for Osipova and Nunez and remarking that they might have alternative projects / guesting opportunities rather than just extended breaks over that period.  And applauding KOH for accommodating these.  I suspect he may also has a hand in arranging other opportunities too. 

 

But we are now getting off topic for this thread ....

Edited November 9, 2019 by FionaE
Typo

[FionaM]

Loved the triple bill so much, that I’m thinking of going to the encore screening this weekend to catch more of the fabulous dancing.  

[Shade]

Me too Fiona. I am going Monday afternoon

[capybara]

2 hours ago, Shade said:

Me too Fiona. I am going Monday afternoon

 

Where is on on Monday, please?

[alison]

Various Picturehouses in and around London, certainly.  Try using the cinema broadcasts filter on the ROH website to look for either "Encore" or (more likely) "Recorded" performances.  (I'd do it myself, but I'm not using my usual browser)