Fun and Games with ROH Package Booking

[JohnS]

Quite right Bridiem.  I was wondering how the release of ‘hundreds’ of tickets for Fidelio were made available for general booking when there was clear evidence that all tickets had been sold.  It seems to me that the answer may well lie in the response to JNC’s questions where  the ROH states:

 

14 hours ago, JNC said:

seats are held back for individual philanthropists who have supported the production, supporters of the artists on our stage, as well as members of the press and other partner organisations.

 

I wonder if faced with no tickets being available, the ROH scoured these sources to ensure that at least ‘hundreds’ of tickets were available.  I accept this is purely speculation on my part but I’m not sure what other explanation there may be for the conflicting statements Bridiem and others have highlighted.

 

What also would be helpful to know is what the ROH’s policy is regarding release of tickets for general booking.  I’ve never seen a public statement that 20% of tickets should be available for each performance but have seen references to an overall 20% target (which is met). Given the absence of limits on tickets (save for rehearsals) and how the 9 per performance in effect is uncapped as group booking kicks in for 10 tickets, there will be certain performances where 20% of tickets simply can’t be kept back for sale when general booking opens.  If there were a requirement to meet a 20% target for each performance, limits on tickets for Patrons/Friends would have to be set.

 

I haven’t seen many references to Viagogo etc and whether Fidelio tickets have been put up for sake.  If they are, I do hope the ROH takes very strong action against any individuals found to be selling tickets.

[JNC]

50 minutes ago, JohnS said:

 

I haven’t seen many references to Viagogo etc and whether Fidelio tickets have been put up for sake.  If they are, I do hope the ROH takes very strong action against any individuals found to be selling tickets.

 

I did ask them directly about this but they haven’t referenced it in their response. 

 

Re the tickets being released that are held for the sponsors etc, I’ve realised this is actually not very helpful (at least to people like me) as I think it’s fair to assume that these tickets will be the more/most expensive ones and boxes. So not suitable for the average person who can’t afford £35+ a ticket (using ROH’s benchmark for ‘cheap’ tickets). (And actually I think for Fidelio anything outside of standing/upper/lower slips was above this price anyway...)

[Bluebird]

From personal experience I can confirm that some tickets were, definitely, held back for Public Booking in the Winter Season.  For a number of years I’ve been able to buy a particular seat in the side front amphi during the priority booking period.  This seat was unavailable throughout Friends’ priority booking for Winter performances but I’ve been told by a friend that it was released for virtually all ballet performances when Public Booking opened.

[penelopesimpson]

Hmm. Let’s not all rush to praise for the fact that ROH have deigned to reply.  It is surely the very least that customers of a major International Opera House should expect when asking legitimate questions.

 

Mr. Beard has used his usual mix of obfuscation and smoke and mirrors.  He ignores specific questions, answers queries that haven’t been raised and blows smoke about pricing and Friday Rush.  I doubt that I am the only person who is fed up with having Friday Rush given as the answer to everything.  It’s a great idea but totally useless for those of us outside of the M25/people who have to make fairly complicated personal arrangements to cover their absence.

 

Mr. Beard seems to think that those of us concerned about ticket availability are stupid.  Self-evidently there was only a scattering of tickets available to the general public for Forza andFidelio.  For goodness sake, over a period of four daysI had this confirmed to me by three separate ROH departments!  Have they all lost their marbles?  Why won’t he tell the truth?  I hope that having taken this to the media and the Arts Council, he will be persuaded to act with more integrity.  For me, it is the lack of clarity that is so concerning.

 

 

[penelopesimpson]

On 01/11/2019 at 21:57, JNC said:

@JohnS I very much agree - I did a similar ‘number crunching’ in my post and ‘hundreds’ isn’t a very helpful/clear answer as well as not enough tickets generally when looking at the overall availability of seats.

 

There’s not much more I can do as an individual but I’m satisfied they’ve responded (if not being satisfied about the clarity of the response itself!) and I’m pleased I’ve raised awareness about it in some small way. I really do hope they reconsider and ensure an adequate number of tickets are held back for future performances (at least 20% for me would be a minimum, in an ideal world I would say 40% to tie in with the stats ROH provide about how many tickets are ‘able’ to be sold to the public) but I have to be honest I’m not too hopeful considering the history with La Forza too. 

I think I would settle for 10% for each performance rather than this vague 20% across all productions which is of course entirely different. 
Most of us recognise That ROH has a difficult balancing act when it comes to funding productions whilst keeping its patrons happy.  I fully accept how viral Friends and Patrons are in keeping the place functioning.  That said, being allowed to buy nine tickets for each performance can only be called greedy.  It means that a Friend could have bought 54 tickets for Fidelio.  Either that person has a big family or they are working in the black market.  Surely allowing so many tickets to go to one buyer is just asking for trouble.  At the same time to tell your Marketing Department, Box Office and Customer Relations that there are no tickets for the general public and then pretend otherwise, well...

[Scheherezade]

Ahem, Penelope Simpson, there may be the odd, unforgiving Friend who might object to being described as ‘viral’! 😊

[JNC]

3 hours ago, Scheherezade said:

Ahem, Penelope Simpson, there may be the odd, unforgiving Friend who might object to being described as ‘viral’! 😊

 

I’m sure @penelopesimpson will clarify but I think she meant ‘vital’! 

 

I also agree that % of tickets available for the general public should be a per performance measure, rather than across the whole scope of ROH productions. 

Edited November 3, 2019 by JNC

[bridiem]

54 minutes ago, JNC said:

 

I’m sure @penelopesimpson will clarify but I think she meant ‘vital’! 

 

I also agree that % of tickets available for the general public should be a per performance measure, rather than across the whole scope of ROH productions. 

 

Yes, and I think 20% should be the minimum level held back. (Even if that means I can't get all the tickets I want when I book as a Friend.)

[penelopesimpson]

Many apologies and thanks to those who pointed it out.  It is of course meant to read vital.

[Scheherezade]

I did realise that it was a slip of the hand, Penelope, as I’m sure everyone else will have done, and hope that my reaction was received in the spirit in which it was intended. 

[penelopesimpson]

Definitely!  It’s an interesting reflection on modern language

[maryrosesatonapin]

I've just been reading an article in the London Review of Books by Patrick Carnegy, published back in the year 2000.  He writes:
'Moreover, it seems that there may be times when as few as 20 per cent of the seats will be available for public booking, the rest being reserved for the 19,000-strong ‘Friends’ (subscription £55) and the wealthy patrons. What kind of House those patrons want – and will have to be given – is anyone’s guess, but it’s more likely to be Carmen, Bohème and Swan Lake than Gawain, the cancelled Le Grand Macabre or new choreography by William Forsythe or Twyla Tharp.'

Plus ça change and all that....

[Lizbie1]

1 hour ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

'What kind of House those patrons want – and will have to be given – is anyone’s guess, but it’s more likely to be Carmen, Bohème and Swan Lake than Gawain, the cancelled Le Grand Macabre or new choreography by William Forsythe or Twyla Tharp.'

 

That's a bit unfair, or perhaps out of date - in my experience Friends are more likely to show up for the rarities and novelties than the general public.

[San Perregrino]

I suspect that there are even more than 19,000 friends in 2019 which would explain why tickets to some shows are rarer than hens teeth. 

[capybara]

Please don't let us fall into the trap of 'dissing' Friends again. Companies are very reliant on them and they need to be given some incentives.

 

[penelopesimpson]

17 hours ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

I've just been reading an article in the London Review of Books by Patrick Carnegy, published back in the year 2000.  He writes:
'Moreover, it seems that there may be times when as few as 20 per cent of the seats will be available for public booking, the rest being reserved for the 19,000-strong ‘Friends’ (subscription £55) and the wealthy patrons. What kind of House those patrons want – and will have to be given – is anyone’s guess, but it’s more likely to be Carmen, Bohème and Swan Lake than Gawain, the cancelled Le Grand Macabre or new choreography by William Forsythe or Twyla Tharp.'

Plus ça change and all that....

Twenty percent would be a luxury!  I’d even settle for ten percent.

 

i don’t think anyone is dissing Friends.  They are clearly invaluable and I quite agree that the incentives to become a Friend must be attractive.  However, when Friends are, apparently, allocated ALL the seats to particular performances, then people are going to squeak.  More than a month on, still can’t understand the rationale behind this own goal.

[capybara]

I understand where you're coming from and a return to a limit of x tickets per production might ease the situation. On the other hand, the ROH certainly needed some of us (Friends included) to attend multiple performances of Manon recently.

[bangorballetboy]

6 hours ago, penelopesimpson said:

Twenty percent would be a luxury!  I’d even settle for ten percent.

 

i don’t think anyone is dissing Friends.  They are clearly invaluable and I quite agree that the incentives to become a Friend must be attractive.  However, when Friends are, apparently, allocated ALL the seats to particular performances, then people are going to squeak.  More than a month on, still can’t understand the rationale behind this own goal.

 

The thing is, though, people in general are not squeaking.  One month on from the Fidelio issues and everyone (apart from one or two) has completely forgotten.  A handful of people and a couple of newspaper articles will not cause anything to change.

[penelopesimpson]

8 hours ago, capybara said:

I understand where you're coming from and a return to a limit of x tickets per production might ease the situation. On the other hand, the ROH certainly needed some of us (Friends included) to attend multiple performances of Manon recently.

And I did, even though I’m not a Friend.

[penelopesimpson]

8 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

The thing is, though, people in general are not squeaking.  One month on from the Fidelio issues and everyone (apart from one or two) has completely forgotten.  A handful of people and a couple of newspaper articles will not cause anything to change.

Ah, so you would like to believe it’s just me, would you?  Perhaps I should suggest you read the entire thread or the extensive media coverage that resulted.
I have never been a defeatist and if something reeks of fish (even if it is turbot rather than coley),I will call it out.  The issue is most certainly not forgotten and I will revive it with the media and other interested parties every time it happens until we get clarity.  I gave up forelock tugging many years ago and continue to expect that those in  positions of power behave with honesty and integrity.

 

 

[penelopesimpson]

An update.

As a ticket holder for the first night of Fidelio, I’ve received A special invitation from ROH today to join an intimate dinner in the Floral Hall post Fidelio.  Tickets, which will include a pre-performance reception in the Crush Room, are only £2000!  For a further sum, I can purchase extra tickets to the performance which are available in all areas except Ampi and Balcony.  The cost is eye watering.

Well, now we know where the tickets are.  I have no problem with initiatives of this sort which I’m sure are vital to funding and I hope that wealthy patrons will snap them up. Just can’t see why they couldn’t have been clear early on.  

[bridiem]

10 minutes ago, penelopesimpson said:

An update.

As a ticket holder for the first night of Fidelio, I’ve received A special invitation from ROH today to join an intimate dinner in the Floral Hall post Fidelio.  Tickets, which will include a pre-performance reception in the Crush Room, are only £2000!  For a further sum, I can purchase extra tickets to the performance which are available in all areas except Ampi and Balcony.  The cost is eye watering.

Well, now we know where the tickets are.  I have no problem with initiatives of this sort which I’m sure are vital to funding and I hope that wealthy patrons will snap them up. Just can’t see why they couldn’t have been clear early on.  

 

I have no objection to the reception and dinner, of course - the more people able/willing to support something like this the better. It's the extra tickets for an allegedly sold out production to which I do object (especially given lack of 'clarity' in respect of previous information given out).

 

(And the fact that they've unwittingly sent this to you, penelopesimpson, is really quite funny!!).

Edited December 7, 2019 by bridiem

[penelopesimpson]

If I win the lottery I’ll take a table (only £9000) and invite you and anyone else who supported my call for clarity!
 

PS:  Don’t buy your outfit just yet because I don’t do the lottery!

[penelopesimpson]

Yes, it is amusing.  Still, I’ve told them for that sort for money, I expect two weeks in the Caribbean with Mr. Kaufmann!

[Geoff]

Not sure where to put this (admins please move if there is a better place) but I have only just noticed a line which may or may not be clearer than other statements the ROH has made in the past. This appears in the latest ROH monthly e-newsletter which I got by email at the end of last week:-

 

>>As part of our commitment to opening up opera and ballet to all, 20% of our Main House tickets are held back until General Booking, including through our Friday Rush programme

 

Now we know? 

[Sim]

So only 20% of tickets are for the general public?  

[Tony Newcombe]

1 minute ago, Sim said:

So only 20% of tickets are for the general public?  

I think that is the minimum number. Not all programmes  are sellouts to the various levels of supporters

[alison]

Makes it sound as though it's something new which came in with Open Up  

[bridiem]

But it doesn't say 20% of the tickets for each performance. So there could be individual performances - or even productions? - where fewer - or no? - tickets are held back?

[penelopesimpson]

It really says nothing, although I’m surprised at 20% which seems a low figure.  The missing word is ALL.  A general 20% simply means totalling everything up so the statement is honest but disingenuous.

 

The real test will come when Anna Netrebko’s Tosca goes on General Sale.  If they’ve sanctioned a Fidelio situation I will be pursuing the Chief Exec in the media again.  He has been warned.

[Lynette H]

Not working at all right now. Whatever I try to add to package I get an "unknown error". Hmmmm. 

[bangorballetboy]

9 minutes ago, Lynette H said:

Not working at all right now. Whatever I try to add to package I get an "unknown error". Hmmmm. 

 

It was the same for RBS friends' booking but it's working OK now.

[Lynette H]

Yes, I got through in the end. Very odd though. As if they hadn't done all the steps to make the tickets properly available at 9am.