Royal Ballet: Manon, autumn 2019

[ninamargaret]

I hope we're not getting to a situation where it's only performances with guest stars that sell out. Obviously good for the box office, but hardly good to the 'home team'.For my money, I'd rather see any of the regular casts - they are all excellent and I would happily see any or all of them .My two performances come up later, and I can't wait!

[penelopesimpson]

I think the ticket sales problem is worrying.  Economic times seem to be getting harder.  I notice it in my small home town and in Bath where I spend a lot of time.  More and more shops closing and even Theatre Royal Bath not as solidly booked as it used to be.  I think ROH have been spectacularly wrong in their timing of raising ticket prices and that the Open-Up project was ill-conceived against a shaky economy.  Yes, I've heard the argument that everything was (allegedly) funded by private subscription but I cannot believe it was all hypothecated.  If there was that much money sloshing around from donors, it might have been wiser to keep some for a rainy day and not raise seat prices to a level that is clearly acting as a deterrent.  Add to that the own-goal of seemingly discouraging regular customers, and the marketing dept who seem to have been the lead on all of this, have pursued the wrong strategy.  Typically, the head of that department has now moved on.  Ticket sales are down, restaurants remain far from full and the building is now housing far too many people who have nothing to do with the Arts and little intention of becoming involved.

 

Coppelia has sold well but this production seems to be an exception across both ballet and opera.  Worrying time.s

[Richard LH]

50 minutes ago, capybara said:

I simply can't believe that sooooooo many tickets remain unsold for Manon this week, with the Takada/McRae performance particularly affected. I haven't done more than take glance but, in addition to hundreds of seats still being available lower down, it looks as if only around 25% have been sold in the Amphi.

I agree, although it is perhaps slightly better than that...I make it about 45% sold in the Amphi,  but 65% sold overall, for this performance. But not what we are used to and certainly not what the dancers deserve.

[maryrosesatonapin]

22 hours ago, penelopesimpson said:

It is surely an individual emotional connection that defies any specific logic.  I always had it with Cojocaru and Kobborg who just made my heart lift and my stomach flutter....

I am with you there, Penelope.  I really miss them.... although of course Johan is of an age when he's moving on to use his other talents.  I'm looking forward to seeing them together at Sadler's Wells in February; there is just something indescribable when they are together.

Edited October 14, 2019 by maryrosesatonapin
Added photo

[maryrosesatonapin]

Re ticket sales: we are at such a turbulent time, politically, when we just don't know what is happening with our country.  Manon unfortunately coincides with the worst timing of this.  People are probably uncertain of future finances and so on.

[Colman]

And this nonsense has got to be depressing visitor numbers: you’d have  to be quite brave to spend on a trip to the ROH in November if you’re coming from outside the U.K. 

[annamk]

Ticket prices must play a part in the poor sales but I still think that Manon has been wheeled out again too soon, to my eye the production is looking tired and dated and maybe that has also played a part. Nunez and the guest Bolle sold out but with other casts struggling to fill 2/3 of the seats it's hard to avoid thinking that the RB principal roster is short of bums on seats star power.- that level of unsold tickets would surely never have been the case with Carlos Acosta or Cojocaru/Kobborg. 

[Richard LH]

26 minutes ago, annamk said:

Ticket prices must play a part in the poor sales but I still think that Manon has been wheeled out again too soon, to my eye the production is looking tired and dated and maybe that has also played a part. Nunez and the guest Bolle sold out but with other casts struggling to fill 2/3 of the seats it's hard to avoid thinking that the RB principal roster is short of bums on seats star power.- that level of unsold tickets would surely never have been the case with Carlos Acosta or Cojocaru/Kobborg. 

I do agree with the "too soon" overall, but not that the production is too tired or dated.Yes Nunez/Bolle have sold out, but  Osipova/Hallberg and Hayward/Campbell also have relatively few tickets left.

As a relative newcomer I can't compare this with past sales... did all other casts (in Manon or indeed other ballets) that were contemporary with Acosta or Cojocaru/Kobborg necessarily sell well? 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Richard LH
Clarification

[Lizbie1]

My hunch is that the absence of non-digital marketing and the awful, near unnavigable website have more to do with it than the political situation. If the man on the Clapham Omnibus happened on an advert (unlikely) while surfing the web, then decided to visit the website tonight, the user journey is dire: if he were lucky enough to navigate to the "Ballet and dance" page, he'd conclude there is something modern (!) called Manon on and some lame looking activities. Only if he persisted would he come to the Concerto mixed bill then Sleeping Beauty, via some intimidating looking dance in the Linbury. (I know I keep saying it but I'm amazed at the decision to give equal prominence to main stage productions and the likes of Ballet Dots - surely events such as the latter could come under a different category.)

Edited October 14, 2019 by Lizbie1
Missing word

[Lizbie1]

31 minutes ago, annamk said:

Ticket prices must play a part in the poor sales but I still think that Manon has been wheeled out again too soon, to my eye the production is looking tired and dated and maybe that has also played a part. Nunez and the guest Bolle sold out but with other casts struggling to fill 2/3 of the seats it's hard to avoid thinking that the RB principal roster is short of bums on seats star power.- that level of unsold tickets would surely never have been the case with Carlos Acosta or Cojocaru/Kobborg. 

 

In fairness I think the last run, with similar casting (probably too similar) sold without difficulty.

 

Agree about its return being too soon, and the production having had its day though!

[Dawnstar]

31 minutes ago, annamk said:

Ticket prices must play a part in the poor sales

 

Is it ticket prices though? If you look some of the better-sold performances, for instance Hayward/Campbell on 29th, there are only a handful of tickets available in the lower levels but lots left still in the amphi, which seems to indicate that people who want to go are prepared to pay the for the higher priced seats. (I hope this doesn't encourage the ROH to hoick them up even further!)

[alison]

3 hours ago, capybara said:

I simply can't believe that sooooooo many tickets remain unsold for Manon this week, with the Takada/McRae performance particularly affected.

 

I know.  I forgot all about Friday Rush last week, wandered onto the website halfway through the afternoon, and still managed to grab a good standing ticket  

[penelopesimpson]

3 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

 

Is it ticket prices though? If you look some of the better-sold performances, for instance Hayward/Campbell on 29th, there are only a handful of tickets available in the lower levels but lots left still in the amphi, which seems to indicate that people who want to go are prepared to pay the for the higher priced seats. (I hope this doesn't encourage the ROH to hoick them up even further!)

In my case, whereas I would probably have gone to three performances, of Manon, I am limiting to two.  I buy good seats but the prices are now too high to come as often so Lucy Sinclair has achieved her wish.  I’m missingThe Triple Bill and only one Coppelia.

[Richard LH]

11 hours ago, Richard LH said:

I make it about 45% sold in the Amphi,  but 65% sold overall, for this performance.

 

Sorry, I should correct myself... the 65% figure was for the rest of the auditorium, apart from the Amphi.. overall the figure looks likes about 55% sold only. 

Incidentally, when a particular section is only half or two-thirds full,  are people able to move into spare seats that are better than those they have booked? 

[Richard LH]

9 hours ago, Lizbie1 said:

My hunch is that the absence of non-digital marketing and the awful, near unnavigable website have more to do with it than the political situation. If the man on the Clapham Omnibus happened on an advert (unlikely) while surfing the web, then decided to visit the website tonight, the user journey is dire: if he were lucky enough to navigate to the "Ballet and dance" page, he'd conclude there is something modern (!) called Manon on and some lame looking activities. Only if he persisted would he come to the Concerto mixed bill then Sleeping Beauty, via some intimidating looking dance in the Linbury. (I know I keep saying it but I'm amazed at the decision to give equal prominence to main stage productions and the likes of Ballet Dots - surely events such as the latter could come under a different category.)

 

The ballet regulars, or keen newcomers, will surely find and choose what they want, witness the sell-outs (or near so) for  some performances of Manon. For the regulars, it is hard to pinpoint the reason for the poor sales unless, as I suspect,  the return of Manon is too soon. Pricing must be a factor to a degree but then as Dawnstar points out, it has been the lower priced seats that have sold worst. 

 

But if the poorly sold performances are a result (at least in part) of  attracting insufficient  non-regular or new casual attendees, perhaps there does need to be a lot more imagination and effort put into  general advertising.

 

Actually I don't think the website is really to blame, which despite the recent changes still functions pretty well IMHO. For a casual surfer, the front page only requires two clicks (via the "what's on" and "see all ballet and dance" links) to reach the list of ballet events of which Manon is the first. The Manon page itself then has all the dates, with "buy" links, and plenty of background features.  It is then only a matter of scrolling down a bit to see the other performances. The filter allows the search list to be narrowed, although it would probably be better if there were also  a pretty simple link on the front page  to a list all main stage ballet performances (and another to all main stage opera performances). Also Manon does appear as a "highlight" on the front page but only via an awkward sideways scroll which could be better.  

 

 

 

 

 

[bridiem]

2 hours ago, Richard LH said:

Incidentally, when a particular section is only half or two-thirds full,  are people able to move into spare seats that are better than those they have booked? 

 

Well in my experience some people do do this; it can be a pain if they wait until the lights are going down (which they have to do to ensure the seats really are empty) and then there are shuffles and crashes and people having to stand up as people start moving round. But I've never experienced that to any degree at the ROH because there are usually so few empty seats anyway. At worst people have just shuffled along a row so they're nearer the centre if they can do so.

[JohnS]

1 hour ago, Richard LH said:

Actually I don't think the website is really to blame, which despite the recent changes still functions pretty well IMHO.

 

Whilst not wishing to move too far away from Manon, I’m afraid the absence of a sensible calendar really detracts from the website.  If planning a trip to see a couple of Manons, I also want to know what else I can readily fit in during a visit.  The website used to have a very simple, readily accessible calendar.  That has gone from the new website although I accept that old links (kindly highlighted by various posters here) are available.  But they are not accessible via the new website (unless I’m missing something). 

 

Back to Manon and looking forward immensely to Saturday’s double performances, my first visit this season.  I’ve gone for the Hayward, Osipova, Morera and Takada casts this run.

[zxDaveM]

just type  calendar  into the search facility, and you'll get there quite quickly. Once there, bookmark it (make a favourite). Easy enough to change the numbers in the website field at the top of the browser thereafter (and re-bookmark)

[JohnS]

Many thanks Dave - but how would anyone visiting the site know that’s the best way to access a sensible calendar?  The ‘calendar’ filter on tickets and events is not great as you have to look at every item to find performance times.  Why should it take 10 clicks/characters (search, calendar, select) to get to a helpful calendar that was readily accessible prior to the upgrade?  The debate was all about making life easier for new audiences to book Manon.

[bangorballetboy]

I understand, from a very senior source in the ROH, that the calendar functionality of the website is to be reworked.  

 

Now, let's get back to Manon.

[alison]

2 hours ago, Richard LH said:

But if the poorly sold performances are a result (at least in part) of  attracting insufficient  non-regular or new casual attendees, perhaps there does need to be a lot more imagination and effort put into  general advertising.

 

 

I haven't been on the Underground that much recently, but I have to say that I don't remember seeing a single poster advertising Manon (and, given the "iconic" poses they usually use to advertise it, I think I would have recognised them easily enough if they were there).

[Douglas Allen]

1 hour ago, bangorballetboy said:

I understand, from a very senior source in the ROH, that the calendar functionality of the website is to be reworked.  

 

 

Well tell him or her to get a move on. It's been a year.

[Lindsay]

2 hours ago, bridiem said:

 

Well in my experience some people do do this; it can be a pain if they wait until the lights are going down (which they have to do to ensure the seats really are empty) and then there are shuffles and crashes and people having to stand up as people start moving round. But I've never experienced that to any degree at the ROH because there are usually so few empty seats anyway. At worst people have just shuffled along a row so they're nearer the centre if they can do so.

 

We used to do this far more in the 'old days' when the house first re-opened and was fairly often not full.  I had a friend who could maneouvre the back stairs from the Amphi to the Stalls in about 15 seconds and be sitting demurely at the end of a row by the time the conductor raised his baton.  There was a fairly large group of us regulars, some of whom had moonlighted as ushers in the past, who knew the house staff well and they would turn a blind eye to our self-upgrading since we were well practised, silent and never disruptive.  

[Rob S]

17 minutes ago, Lindsay said:

  I had a friend who could maneouvre the back stairs from the Amphi to the Stalls in about 15 seconds

 

Builder was he? 🙂

 

My only experience of impromptu upgrading en mass was for Frankenstein....for my first visit all the stalls circle standing people just sat in seats without asking or being told...the second time an usher came up to us and said ‘I’m not supposed to say this but you are welcome to sit down if you like’

[penelopesimpson]

It’s not hip enough for the marketing people.  Social media - or nothing.  Result:  empty seats

[alison]

43 minutes ago, Lindsay said:

 

We used to do this far more in the 'old days' when the house first re-opened and was fairly often not full.

 

Goodness, was it?  I don't remember that - my memories are of everything being sold out, and struggling to get tickets.  But that would have been ballet only, I suppose.

[Lindsay]

4 minutes ago, alison said:

 

Goodness, was it?  I don't remember that - my memories are of everything being sold out, and struggling to get tickets.  But that would have been ballet only, I suppose.

I used to go to more opera in those days but I do recall productions like the Nureyev Don Quixote and some of the newer works Stretton put on being pretty sparsely attended.

[alison]

Ah, yes, that was a bit later than I was thinking about.

[penelopesimpson]

16 hours ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

I am with you there, Penelope.  I really miss them.... although of course Johan is of an age when he's moving on to use his other talents.  I'm looking forward to seeing them together at Sadler's Wells in February; there is just something indescribable when they are together.

The power between them just jumps off the page

[Lindsay]

They also used to paper extensively for some visiting companies.  I saw San Francisco Ballet from the Grand Tier for free, sitting next to Deborah Bull and a very young Edward Watson.

[JNC]

Sorry to continue switching topics but it may be interesting to note Hallberg’s interview in the links section today mentions Manon. The piece is primarily to highlight his ‘principal guest artist role’ but I wonder if there was encouragement ‘behind the scenes’ to discuss Manon to aid ticket sales?

 

Ironically Hallberg/Osipova are one of the better selling couples but I like to think the ROH PR machine is doing something to boost attendance!

 

Ultimately what this demonstrates (apart from the obvious ‘too soon’) is that ROH does rely on it’s regulars to attend ballet that’s not Swan Lake/Nutcracker etc. Perhaps I am exaggerating but my impression is most people attending the non mainstream pieces are regulars or people who already enjoy the classics and are exploring, and if successful the second category end up becoming regulars anyway.

 

I know it’s already been said but the whole ‘we want new people in’ all the time doesn’t really work - either people don’t want to come back which has its own problems, or the new people who do come back then become ‘regulars’ by default. The focus should be on encouraging and introducing people to ballet/opera, making the experience enjoyable so they are not only tempted to return but also to introduce others and so on. (Which may be ROH’s intention but the fact that a lot of people on here don’t think it is, means either ROH have got the messaging wrong, or they’re on the wrong track, or both!) 

 

Increasing prices in the lower bands and uninspiring programming (either not good like the Unknown Soldier or too soon like Manon) means even regulars are unable or unwilling to support performances. Furthermore, higher pricing at lower tiers may have discouraged a non regular from seeing Manon for the first time as the price to risk calculation was probably not favourable! 

 

(I say this sadly as I would love to see Manon again as I do very much like it - but let’s give it 3 years please!) 

Edited October 15, 2019 by JNC

[Richard LH]

1 hour ago, JNC said:

The focus should be on encouraging and introducing people to ballet/opera, making the experience enjoyable so they are not only tempted to return but also to introduce others and so on. (Which may be ROH’s intention but the fact that a lot of people on here don’t think it is, means either ROH have got the messaging wrong, or they’re on the wrong track, or both!) 

 

Yes of course it would be bonkers to want to encourage newcomers to a ballet (or opera) but only on the basis that they don't then return! 

[Lizbie1]

8 minutes ago, Richard LH said:

 

Yes of course it would be bonkers to want to encourage newcomers to a ballet (or opera) but only on the basis that they don't then return! 

 

Except that they are incentivised by ACE to do exactly that.