Royal Ballet: Manon, autumn 2019

[Jamesrhblack]

48 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

Why does the piece open with Lescaut sitting in the middle of the stage staring out at the audience? I can see this would make sense if the piece was either presented from his viewpoint or supposed to be him having a flashback, but it's not.

 

 

 

 David Wall, the original Lescaut (who also danced Des Grieux) was probably the most handsome man in the history of the Royal Ballet.

 

More seriously, its Lescaut’s ambitions for his sister that set up the drama....

[alison]

1 hour ago, Dawnstar said:

Why are there only 4 courtesans credited on the cast sheet when there are 5 of them on stage? While 2 have larger roles, the other 3 seem to do about the same amount yet the one costumed in red velvet (mostly Gina Storm-Jensen at the performances I've seen) doesn't get credited.

 

 

Beats me.  I wonder that nearly every time.  I mean, her name should probably be put on a different line from the other courtesans, but I think she should be credited.  But then, I miss seeing the skivvies and so on credited these days, too.

[Rob S]

1 hour ago, Dawnstar said:

Some of the reviews have mentioned changes in the lighting for this run and fairly recent changes in the orchestrations. Is anyone who's seen the previous lighting & heard the previous orchestrations able to say how great the changes are? I'm especially interested in the orchestrations as I'd like to get a CD recording of the ballet music but the only recording that seems to be available on CD is from the 70s so I don't want to buy it then find it sounds nothing like the music I'm currently loving hearing live.

 

 

 

Have you tried looking at the Decca recording from 1987? You can listen to extracts on youtube if you search for 'orchestra of the royal opera house manon'

[Irmgard]

1 hour ago, Dawnstar said:

As there's now a couple of days "off" before the next Manon performance, I'm going to try a few random queries I have from watching several performances & see if anyone here might know the answers (though I'm not sure if some of them are actually answerable).

 

Why does the piece open with Lescaut sitting in the middle of the stage staring out at the audience? I can see this would make sense if the piece was either presented from his viewpoint or supposed to be him having a flashback, but it's not.

 

Is there a name for the movement Des Grieux does a couple of times where he jumps and turns while also beating his legs together?

 

Assuming the conductor keeps the same tempo across performances, are their certain movements that dancers are able to do faster/slower while still keeping within what they would be allowed to do choregraphically? Both Hayward & Corrales yesterday seemed to be doing some movements - bourees in her case, turns in his - faster than other dancers but I don't know if they actually were or not.

 

Some of the reviews have mentioned changes in the lighting for this run and fairly recent changes in the orchestrations. Is anyone who's seen the previous lighting & heard the previous orchestrations able to say how great the changes are? I'm especially interested in the orchestrations as I'd like to get a CD recording of the ballet music but the only recording that seems to be available on CD is from the 70s so I don't want to buy it then find it sounds nothing like the music I'm currently loving hearing live.

 

Why are there only 4 courtesans credited on the cast sheet when there are 5 of them on stage? While 2 have larger roles, the other 3 seem to do about the same amount yet the one costumed in red velvet (mostly Gina Storm-Jensen at the performances I've seen) doesn't get credited.

 

Is one of the whores being costumed as a boy supposed to indicate that she caters for clients who are homosexual or paedophilic? The latter would be very disturbing but her costume is clearly what would have been worn by a fairly young boy rather than a grown man during that period so I'm not sure what to think.

 

 

Not sure I can answer all your questions but I'll have a go!  I think the opening is a great piece of theatre, especially with a charismatic Lescaut, but I am not sure about MacMillan's reason for starting the ballet like this.  Jann Parry's biography, which I have not read in full, may answer this.  I am not sure which movement you are describing for Des Grieux but if you mean that the lower legs intertwine while he turns in the air, this is a beaten tour en l'air.  With regard to bourrees, each dancer has an individual speed for these (some shimmer, others undulate!) but all should start and finish within the same musical phrase.   I can't really comment on the lighting as I have only seen a few performances of this ballet by the Royal Ballet in recent years but I did think the costumes looked rather washed out at yesterday's matinee so maybe this is a change in the lighting.  I also remember years ago a more evocative lighting in the Gaoler's office, making it feel as if it was pervaded by an oppressive heat.  When I first heard the new orchestration a few years ago, I thought it was far too overblown, especially as the Leighton Lucas orchestration seemed nigh on perfect to me!  However, to my ears, the new orchestration has been toned down a bit and is now closer to the original.  I love the recording that is available of the original orchestration and I do not think you will be disappointed if you buy it.  In fact, you may hear even more orchestral colours in the recording.  I have just checked ENB's cast sheet for "Manon" and it lists four courtesans in Act I but five in Act II.  Perhaps RB should do the same?  Yes, there could be some rather disturbing reason (and probably is as MacMillan liked to explore sexual practices onstage!) why there is a harlot dressed as a boy (usually one of the shorter dancers) but in that period it was common to have girls playing boys in operas (where the term 'trouser role' comes from), i.e. Cherubino in "The Marriage of Figaro", and a lot of this was so that men could appreciate the female form, i.e. their legs, which they wouldn't normally see outside the bedroom because of the length of skirts at this time, even for ballet dancers, so this may be just a nod to that practice.   Hope this helps to answer your questions.

[DD Driver]

Impassioned differences in opinions about these dancers reminds me of something Nikolay Tsiskaridze (Bolshoi Theater) said in a mini-documentary for Dance Channel TV: Meet Nikolay Tsiskaridze

 

2:10   "Everything I've done on stage has had supporters and opponents. The main distinctive feature about great artists is that no one is left indifferent when disagreement arises.  It is horrifying when everyone likes or dislikes something, because it is immediately forgotten. I bring out this kind of disagreement wherever I dance.  In Tokyo, New York, Paris and Rome there were always people who were for or against me. They write enthusiastic reviews and terrible ones.  It creates a certain wave."

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0no3EwDHkWQ

 

Edited October 20, 2019 by DD Driver

[RobR]

Dawnstar posted, “Why are there only 4 courtesans credited on the cast sheet when there are 5 of them on stage? While 2 have larger roles, the other 3 seem to do about the same amount yet the one costumed in red velvet (mostly Gina Storm-Jensen at the performances I've seen) doesn't get credited.”

 

 I think I may originally have made a similar assumption. In fact the four courtesans are listed in the cast sheet, and the fifth is Lescaut's mistress, who dances with them.

 

 

[alison]

No, it's Mistress plus 5 courtesans in Act II.  I've frequently thought what you said, and then counted and realised I was wrong.

[RobR]

11 minutes ago, alison said:

No, it's Mistress plus 5 courtesans in Act II.  I've frequently thought what you said, and then counted and realised I was wrong.

 

I can say with some confidence that in Act 2, apart from the four named courtesans and Lescaut's mistress, who dance, there are two female Corps members dressed in similar fashion but not credited in the cast sheet because these are non-dancing roles, and the two of them merely glide gracefully around the back of the set. One of these is in a red velvet costume.

 

 

[alison]

No, there's also the one in predominantly bottle green velvet (with red, I think), who's the one I was talking about.  One of the ones who gets handed over to one of the clients.

[Irmgard]

8 hours ago, RobR said:

 

I can say with some confidence that in Act 2, apart from the four named courtesans and Lescaut's mistress, who dance, there are two female Corps members dressed in similar fashion but not credited in the cast sheet because these are non-dancing roles, and the two of them merely glide gracefully around the back of the set. One of these is in a red velvet costume.

 

 

See my post above.  ENB lists the cast for each act and lists four courtesans in Act 1 and five in Act 2. There are definitely five in Act 2 in the Royal Ballet production - they just don't bother to list the addition on their cast sheet.

[capybara]

The fifth Courtesan (played by Tara-Brigitte Bhavnani or Gina Storm-Jensen in the performances I have seen) does dance in a circular formation with the other four as well. However, her main 'claim to fame' is as the Courtesan who 'lures' one of the elderly gentlemen across the front of the stage, snatching her hand away each time he goes to grab it.

 

Irmgard is right  - and I think that ENB was right to list this dancer as well as the Courtesans who have featured duets.

[FionaM]

15 hours ago, Irmgard said:

When the score was re-orchestrated, a piece was inserted before the gaoler's pas de deux to cover the scene change.  I am not convinced by it or by its necessity!  The interlude before the bedroom pas de deux in Act I has always been there , or at least as long as I have been watching the ballet which is since the late 1970s!

thank you. Very helpful.  
 

Both could be cut in my opinion!

[FionaM]

15 hours ago, annamk said:

 

Very interested to read your detailed thoughts Irmgard, thank you for taking the time to post them.

 

It had slipped my mind when I posted that even I, someone with a tin ear, found the tempi yesterday insufferably slow. I agree with your thoughts about the ENB orchestra and Gavin Sutherland. I had a similar revelation in Stuttgart recently where the Staatsorchestra made the Mayerling score sound immeasurably better than it ever does in London. 

It’s disappointing to hear that the RB orchestra/conducting is sub-standard.   Our brilliant dancers deserve better.

[RobR]

Don’t worry @FionaE, it’s not everyone’s opinion. 

[RobR]

9 hours ago, alison said:

No, there's also the one in predominantly bottle green velvet (with red, I think), who's the one I was talking about.  One of the ones who gets handed over to one of the clients.

 

Now, I’m afraid I’m getting a little confused. Dawnstar refers to a dancer in red velvet (and about whom I posted) and you subsequently assured me that the dancer I’ve missed is in bottle green.

 

Unless you or Dawnstar is red/green colour blind, and are referring to the same dancer, are we now up to five or six courtesans? 😀

[Rob S]

Someone needs to fire up their DVD player and count the courtesans they can see in their Manon dvd 💡

[bangorballetboy]

6 minutes ago, Rob S said:

Someone needs to fire up their DVD player and count the courtesans they can see in their Manon dvd 💡

 

No need (unless you want to, of course!).  Not counting the "non-dancing" courtesans who giddy about in the background, there are 5 courtesans in act 2 (plus Lescaut's mistress).  The one who does not appear in act 1 wears (in the current RB production) a red dress and is not credited as she does not take part in any of the duets for the courtesans.

[Sim]

Dawnstar, I had the utter privilege of interviewing the great and lovely David Wall back in 2005 for the forum's predecessor, ballet.co.uk.  I think it's best to read what the creator of Lescaut has to say about the beginning of the ballet:

 

MacMillan created the complex character of Lescaut on Wall in 1974 in the ballet Manon. How easy was it for him to portray a character who begins as a pimping libertine, becomes a comic drunk, and ends up the caring brother who decides the right thing to do is help his sister follow her heart and loses his life as a result? "Well, he was depraved, to say the least. We diverted a bit from the book, but not much. The drunk scene was created straight in the first instance. Then it was Dame Ninette who suggested doing something comic since there wasn't much comedy in the ballet" he laughs. "Do you know, it took a lot longer to re-choreograph it inebriated than it did as a straight piece!" He loved dancing Lescaut: "he is very manipulative." I mention the discussion that has been taking place on Ballet.co regarding the very beginning of the ballet, and asked him to clarify it for readers, who had been wondering why the ballet begins with Lescaut sitting on his own, centre stage, with his cape wrapped around him. "We tried many openings to this ballet. One of Kenneth's ideas was to have a parachute silk with slits in it flutter down, then have a character appear, then the silk would move, then another character would appear… but we just couldn't make it work. We tried several other things, but then Kenneth finally had the idea of Lescaut just sitting there in an almost drugged state; it could have all been a dream of his.  But it was really just to emphasise that he is central to the piece. It is a very difficult opening for a dancer because you can't even move your eyeballs, which is very hard when beggars are moving all around you, and the lights come up!"

[Sim]

And regarding the lighting, I think the new lighting in Act 1 is appalling.  It makes them look like they are in a circus ring.  The spotlight is cold and metallic blue, and completely negates the romance happening in DG's yearning solo.  The lighting should be warm, to enhance what is happening in their two young hearts.  This makes DG's job in the first solo even more difficult:  he is fighting the lighting, as well as trying not to wobble, and to convey his inner feelings to Manon and an audience of 2000...please, please revert to how it was before.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  It wasn't broke before, but it sure is now.  So please fix it!

[bangorballetboy]

6 hours ago, Sim said:

And regarding the lighting, I think the new lighting in Act 1 is appalling.  It makes them look like they are in a circus ring.  The spotlight is cold and metallic blue, and completely negates the romance happening in DG's yearning solo.  The lighting should be warm, to enhance what is happening in their two young hearts.  This makes DG's job in the first solo even more difficult:  he is fighting the lighting, as well as trying not to wobble, and to convey his inner feelings to Manon and an audience of 2000...please, please revert to how it was before.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  It wasn't broke before, but it sure is now.  So please fix it!

 

Another thumbs down from me on the new lighting.  Too many shadows, sometimes falling on significant dancers or action.

[Lizbie1]

12 hours ago, Irmgard said:

When I first heard the new orchestration a few years ago, I thought it was far too overblown, especially as the Leighton Lucas orchestration seemed nigh on perfect to me!  However, to my ears, the new orchestration has been toned down a bit and is now closer to the original. 

 

I thought the same myself, but wonder whether it’s because the re-orchestrator (Martin Yates) isn’t conducting this time. I think others have observed that he sometimes draws too much attention to his own contributions.

[Mary]

 

I thought the tempo was  too slow quite often and the music did not always seem to flow as it should do.

 

Currently listening to Radio 3 Composer of the Week (such an excellent programme)- it's Puccini this week, and today focusing on his Manon Lescaut with commentary from Antonio Pappano- which I am finding a very interesting comparison to the ballet music.

 

[JohnS]

1 hour ago, Sim said:

If [it] ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

Sadly a much ignored plea.  ROH website comes to mind (along with matters best not mentioned here).

[Rachel H]

I'd be very happy if they reverted back to the Leighton Lucas orchestrations.  I don't know why the cello solo in the final act is there, as for me, it kills the mood, and breaks the tension of the piece at that point (however well played it is). If I like the music,  it goes a long way with me.

 

 I'm not a fan of the new lighting either.

 

That said I think the dancers have given fantastic performances 🙂 Seen 3, with 1 to go.

[Geoff]

We can be confident that Lady MacMillan approved the changes. In fact she may well have suggested some of them. No doubt she was also consulted during rehearsals of this revival. 

[Dawnstar]

Thanks @Sim for the definitive answer to my first query, though I do also like @Jamesrhblack's suggestion that it was so the audience could admire David Wall's looks!

 

15 hours ago, Irmgard said:

Not sure I can answer all your questions but I'll have a go!  I think the opening is a great piece of theatre, especially with a charismatic Lescaut, but I am not sure about MacMillan's reason for starting the ballet like this.  Jann Parry's biography, which I have not read in full, may answer this.  I am not sure which movement you are describing for Des Grieux but if you mean that the lower legs intertwine while he turns in the air, this is a beaten tour en l'air.  With regard to bourrees, each dancer has an individual speed for these (some shimmer, others undulate!) but all should start and finish within the same musical phrase.   I can't really comment on the lighting as I have only seen a few performances of this ballet by the Royal Ballet in recent years but I did think the costumes looked rather washed out at yesterday's matinee so maybe this is a change in the lighting.  I also remember years ago a more evocative lighting in the Gaoler's office, making it feel as if it was pervaded by an oppressive heat.  When I first heard the new orchestration a few years ago, I thought it was far too overblown, especially as the Leighton Lucas orchestration seemed nigh on perfect to me!  However, to my ears, the new orchestration has been toned down a bit and is now closer to the original.  I love the recording that is available of the original orchestration and I do not think you will be disappointed if you buy it.  In fact, you may hear even more orchestral colours in the recording.  I have just checked ENB's cast sheet for "Manon" and it lists four courtesans in Act I but five in Act II.  Perhaps RB should do the same?  Yes, there could be some rather disturbing reason (and probably is as MacMillan liked to explore sexual practices onstage!) why there is a harlot dressed as a boy (usually one of the shorter dancers) but in that period it was common to have girls playing boys in operas (where the term 'trouser role' comes from), i.e. Cherubino in "The Marriage of Figaro", and a lot of this was so that men could appreciate the female form, i.e. their legs, which they wouldn't normally see outside the bedroom because of the length of skirts at this time, even for ballet dancers, so this may be just a nod to that practice.   Hope this helps to answer your questions.

 

Thank you very much for your reply. If I recall correctly he did the movement twice towards the end of the first scene in Act 3. He was jumping with his legs at an angle rather than straight up. I vaguely thought tours en l'air involved jumping straight up - and Googling it examples show that - but does it cover jumping not straight up as well? Thanks, so it is possible Hayward did more. I remember being struck by her bourrees in Month in the Country too. I guess I'll give the original recording a go then. I know all about trouser roles (Rosenkavalier is my favourite opera) but hadn't thought about this being the same thing, given the dancer isn't playing a male character. That would at least be less disturbing that the possible interpretations I Was thinking of.

 

Apologies for provoking a lot of confusing discussions about courtesans! I probably wouldn't have noticed that character that much were it not that Gina Storm-Jensen is one of the few dancers in the lower ranks of the RB who I can actually manage to pick out in group scenes.

[Rob S]

Just had an email to say the closing performance of Manon will see Alexander Campbell replace Steven McRae as Akane Takada’s partner on 6th November 

[penelopesimpson]

So agree with Sim about the lighting.  Indeed on Saturday I found myself thinking that if I should ever win the lottery, I would pay for Manon to have new stage sets, costumes and lighting.

[jmhopton]

33 minutes ago, Rob S said:

Just had an email to say the closing performance of Manon will see Alexander Campbell replace Steven McRae as Akane Takada’s partner on 6th November 

 

Has Alex ever danced De Grieux before? I know there is somewhere on the ROH site that you can find out these things and a link to it has been mentioned previously on this Forum but I forgot to bookmark it and of course trying to find anything useful on the new ROH website without assistance is just a complete waste of time.

[RuthE]

3 minutes ago, jmhopton said:

 

Has Alex ever danced De Grieux before?

 

This isn't intended to be a facetious remark, but... do you mean other than when he danced it two days ago?

[jmhopton]

Phrased my previous post very badly. hadn't really forgotten I'd just seen Alex last Saturday (apologies Janet). I really meant to say has he danced it before this current run and my query about finding out about previous cast runs still stands if anyone can help.

[capybara]

Just now, jmhopton said:

Phrased my previous post very badly. hadn't really forgotten I'd just seen Alex last Saturday (apologies Janet). I really meant to say has he danced it before this current run and my query about finding out about previous cast runs still stands if anyone can help.

 

Hahaha! Yes, Campbell danced Des Grieux in the 2018 run of Manon. Prior to that he had been Lescaut.

[Jamesrhblack]

2 minutes ago, jmhopton said:

Phrased my previous post very badly. hadn't really forgotten I'd just seen Alex last Saturday (apologies Janet). I really meant to say has he danced it before this current run and my query about finding out about previous cast runs still stands if anyone can help.

Alexander Campbell danced two performances as Des Grieux last time with Akane Takada replacing Steven McRae. He also danced Lescaut in that run. The Dancing Times was extremely complimentary about his Des Grieux if I recall correctly...

Edited October 21, 2019 by Jamesrhblack