Advice on Primary Ballet Exam

[Moonbeam]

My daughter will be 8 soon so I think she should be moved to the Grade 1 class and is ready to be challenged more too.  Point blank refused to saying they don’t do that there and I think it ultimately boils down to the fact that if my daughter is moved without examination then others will request the same too and that would mean less income for the school but I may be wrong as I don’t know how much income is generated from examinations.  

[ParentTaxi]

Are there the equivalent in RAD of the ISTD exam centres, which you can travel to to do an exam?

 

DD's dance school sends pupils to our local ISTD one for the vocational level exams (because apparently they need particular examiners, so the visiting examiners can't always do a mixture of vocational and normal grades), but when we have been there I have seen much younger children doing normal grade exams there.

 

The only disadvantage is that you sometimes have to do an exam with another person from another dance school - DD was a little disconcerted when doing her Adv2 tap at 15 that her exam partner was 25 - but it would be a way of getting the exam 'over and done with' if that is the requirement to move up to a more appropriate grade?

[Moonbeam]

I might see if I can find somewhere that she could sit the exam but I think even that would then mess the class numbers up as everyone seems to move on in groups rather than individually. 

[ParentTaxi]

I do think that it sounds as if the dance school is being very rigid in its thinking, and requiring everything to be done 'their way' for the school's convenience, rather than looking at the individual dancer and what they need. DD's dance school may have 8 doing a particular exam, or 1 - an assessment is made of each child's readiness towards the end of the previous term, then a list put up of who is recommended for the next term's exams (usually, but not always, all 3 genres). DD has done exam preparation with a big group, in a 4, in a 2, on her own....whatever has met her dance needs at that time.

[Moonbeam]

That sounds like the way it should be Parenttaxi, I couldn’t agree more that there is a very rigid approach to everything and I feel really sad that it’s not taking the children as individuals into account.  They’re clumped together in groups and if this exam display is anything like her last one, when she finally gets to sit it that is, then she’ll be one of if not the oldest child sitting primary exam as she’ll be 8 and a half by then.  I just hope she’s still enjoying it by the time that happens, that is if we don’t decide to move her to another school. 

[Fiz]

I would move her. My daughter was in a similar position some years ago and due the erratic way her dance teacher was behaving, I moved her away to another school. Unknown to me then was that her new teacher examined the junior RAD grades and told me after her very first lesson that she was perfectly able to sit her Grade One exam then. She went to the Grade One and Two classes and did the exam at the next session in November. I would think that there is a danger that your dd may lose interest if she is constantly held back like this. 

[Moonbeam]

It’s altogether possible she’ll lose interest Fiz as I’m sure none of the things she’s learning just now are challenging. Can I ask what age she was when you moved her?  

[Fiz]

She was almost six. They changed the ages for RAD grades some years ago. Her sister was nine and I moved her too. 

[Moonbeam]

Thanks Fiz, I may have to look at moving them both as my youngest is 6 and hasn’t even sat her pre primary yet despite dancing there for 3 and a half years.  I think we may have to move to ISTD though as all other RAD schools are a bit more of a travelling distance for us unfortunately. 

[Fiz]

I’m really sorry, Moonbeam. It doesn’t sound to me as if the dance teacher has your dds’ best interests at heart, only her own. 

[Moonbeam]

It looks like that to me too and it’s quite sad as we’ve spent 5 years at that school. 

[Fiz]

😞

[taxi4ballet]

5 hours ago, Moonbeam said:

Point blank refused to saying they don’t do that there and I think it ultimately boils down to the fact that if my daughter is moved without examination then others will request the same too and that would mean less income for the school but I may be wrong as I don’t know how much income is generated from examinations.  

 

The school should make no money at all from the exam itself. All they are supposed to do is collect the exam fees and pass them on to the examining body.

 

[Streetdancer]

I'm sorry you're in this situation Moonbeam. My DD was in a similar situation waiting to take G2. I felt very loyal to her dance school but in the end they were just holding her back. I moved her and her younger sister and haven't regretted it a single moment. Although as a result she is still 'behind' in the grades for her age (took G3 aged 12 this spring) she has had the opportunity to start the vocational grades, pointe and got accepted into a high quality associates scheme. Both my DDs absolutely love their current dance school.

 

I wish you luck with your decision.

[Moonbeam]

51 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said:

 

The school should make no money at all from the exam itself. All they are supposed to do is collect the exam fees and pass them on to the examining body.

 

 

We usually pay more than the exam fee to cover extra prep lessons but I can’t remember how much we pay in comparison to the fee. 

[Moonbeam]

14 minutes ago, Streetdancer said:

I'm sorry you're in this situation Moonbeam. My DD was in a similar situation waiting to take G2. I felt very loyal to her dance school but in the end they were just holding her back. I moved her and her younger sister and haven't regretted it a single moment. Although as a result she is still 'behind' in the grades for her age (took G3 aged 12 this spring) she has had the opportunity to start the vocational grades, pointe and got accepted into a high quality associates scheme. Both my DDs absolutely love their current dance school.

 

I wish you luck with your decision.

Thank you.  It’s so hard isn’t it when you want to support your local school and you do feel so loyal to them.  The associate schemes look fantastic, that’s a fantastic  achievement!  Well done ☺️

[OnlyDance]

I don't post often Moonbeam but I had to reply. In your shoes I would definitely seriously consider a change of school. My dd was in similar situation to Streetdancer and we moved schools 3 years ago and haven't looked back. Initially my dd didn't want to leave her original school but trialling some classes elsewhere helped her change her mind! She moved from a RAD school to an ISTD one after learning RAD Grade 2 for more than a year.  With no exam date in sight she started losing interest because she just wanted to do more ballet (which wasn't possible at her original school) and felt she knew the syllabus better than children who were scheduled to take the exam!  She moved age 9 and although she spent more than a year in Grade 2 she felt stretched because of the new exercises she had to cover in ISTD that she didn't do in RAD and also due to the un-set work. Most importantly she has been allowed to attend more than one grade at a time to help her 'catch-up'. (She started ballet at age 5 , took primary exam at age 7 and grade 1 at age 8.)

It doesn't sound like your dd's school is working for her right now. I wish you the best of luck in deciding next steps. Is an associate scheme an option?

[Moonbeam]

The associates scheme isn’t very close to us and would mean she wouldn’t get to dance as much as she also does ISTD modern and tap.  There are other classes she can attend and we’ve spent a lot of time today looking at them but I do think trialling them before we decide is definitely the best way.  I’m not even sure how confident I would be putting her forward for the associate scheme given how far behind she is, there will be girls already in grade 2 classes at her age.

[OnlyDance]

I understand your fear about putting her forward for an associate scheme. But do remember that at your daughter's young age they will be looking at potential and many schemes only start at age 8 anyway. If distance is an issue, depending where you are, could a monthly or fortnightly scheme be an option? My dd's first associate was monthly, and it was just what she needed at the time to improve her confidence. She now attends a different fortnightly one which works well for us. Glad you're looking into alternative local schools and I hope you'll reach a decision that works well for all the family.

 

[Moonbeam]

 

1 hour ago, OnlyDance said:

I understand your fear about putting her forward for an associate scheme. But do remember that at your daughter's young age they will be looking at potential and many schemes only start at age 8 anyway. If distance is an issue, depending where you are, could a monthly or fortnightly scheme be an option? My dd's first associate was monthly, and it was just what she needed at the time to improve her confidence. She now attends a different fortnightly one which works well for us. Glad you're looking into alternative local schools and I hope you'll reach a decision that works well for all the family.

 

That’s a really interesting point a monthly session would be a fabulous start.  I’ll have a look and see if they do a monthly one ☺️ Thank you so much for replying xx

[ParentTaxi]

I know that moving to an ISTD school might seem a real waste of the time she has already spent learning the RAD exercises, but the RAD focus on set exercises done with great technique will stand her in good stead wherever she goes. The ISTD approach of unset 'free work' from the very beginning will keep her on her toes and ensure that even if the exercises are not particularly stretching for a while, there's always the variation of the unset work to look forward to. Quality of teaching - and appropriate progression - is more important than exam board. Ask to see recent exam results too - a good school will have mostly Merits and Distinctions.

 

You may also be able to jump a grade or two when you move, as it is likely that the new school will put her into around the right grade for her age, rather than being too fixated on 'not taken that exam yet'

[Moonbeam]

13 minutes ago, ParentTaxi said:

I know that moving to an ISTD school might seem a real waste of the time she has already spent learning the RAD exercises, but the RAD focus on set exercises done with great technique will stand her in good stead wherever she goes. The ISTD approach of unset 'free work' from the very beginning will keep her on her toes and ensure that even if the exercises are not particularly stretching for a while, there's always the variation of the unset work to look forward to. Quality of teaching - and appropriate progression - is more important than exam board. Ask to see recent exam results too - a good school will have mostly Merits and Distinctions.

 

You may also be able to jump a grade or two when you move, as it is likely that the new school will put her into around the right grade for her age, rather than being too fixated on 'not taken that exam yet'

Thank you, that is reassuring to hear.  I told my daughter last night that she wasn’t sitting her exam and if you’d seen the look on her face 😪.  Today brought more questions once she’d thought about it, she asked why there wasn’t a rad exam and I explained again they didn’t have enough numbers and she told me how sad it had made her and how much she was looking forward to the exam and moving into the next class and said that’s her in that class for another year and said again how sad it made her.  Do you happen to know if there’s any way for her to sit the exam in November at another dance school? 

[HopelessMummy]

I think it's unlikely your dance teacher will accept your DD doing her exam elsewhere. Can I suggest approaching them again and ask whether she can do grade 1 now together with the primary classes? That way, she can learn stuff that is new and also keep reminding herself of the stuff needed for the exam next year. It will mean extra fees of course but a suggestion?  Or alternately, move her. The school should have given you a cogent reason in the first place and to tell you to leave if you're not happy is hardly a dance school worth your effort? 

[Moonbeam]

37 minutes ago, HopelessMummy said:

I think it's unlikely your dance teacher will accept your DD doing her exam elsewhere. Can I suggest approaching them again and ask whether she can do grade 1 now together with the primary classes? That way, she can learn stuff that is new and also keep reminding herself of the stuff needed for the exam next year. It will mean extra fees of course but a suggestion?  Or alternately, move her. The school should have given you a cogent reason in the first place and to tell you to leave if you're not happy is hardly a dance school worth your effort? 

I was going to approach them again and ask if they would let her do both at the same time as that would at least be a compromise however I’ve just checked the timetable and the classes are at the same time unfortunately. 

 

I think you are right though, I don’t think they would accept her doing it anywhere else anyway.  

 

Feel a bit stuck again as the reason we didn't actually move them both last time was given was given the timescales the earliest she would be able to do the exam with a change of school would have been November anyway and we thought we’d be as well just waiting and then making a decision after she’d sat the exam and now we’re in the exact same situation again except I have a very unhappy girl this time that feels like she’s not getting the chance to move on.  I’ll keep looking at the other options and keep speaking to as many teachers and mums as possible to make sure I make the right decision for them both. 

[Fiz]

A decent school will let you try classes before you decide. I was certain a change was best for our daughters when the teacher who was also the principal told me she couldn’t understand why my youngest daughter hadn’t been put in for her exam and when I saw how engaged she was with the children and they were with her. 

[Moonbeam]

3 minutes ago, Fiz said:

A decent school will let you try classes before you decide. I was certain a change was best for our daughters when the teacher who was also the principal told me she couldn’t understand why my youngest daughter hadn’t been put in for her exam and when I saw how engaged she was with the children and they were with her. 

I think they’re going to have some extra busy weeks coming up soon while we try out a few new classes.  How long did it take you to find a new school you were happy with?

[HopelessMummy]

Go with your gut. Mine was held back. No reason given. Eventually we went elsewhere for other reasons and wish we left earlier. If it doesn't feel right, it's probs not right. 

[Fiz]

I was given the name of a good school by the mother of my elder daughter’s classmate. Her daughter had been at the school for several years and she recommended it. They went to a summer school there, liked it, had a tester class and that was that. 

[Legseleven]

On 13/09/2019 at 15:29, Moonbeam said:

I know what you mean.  I had already queried it and was basically told if I didn’t like it to move them.  I’m not looking forward to the next conversation given the response I got in January.  My eldest will be in Grade 2 until she’s 13 now as they normally have 18 months between each grade is what I was told when I queried it before which I think is too long and waiting 2 years seems even sillier x

This is so familiar. DD did pre-primary aged 5, primary at 6, grade 1 at 7 and then due to a school move she took grade 3 at 9 and missed grade 2 out. However, had she stayed at her original school she would have had to spend at least 18 months if not 2 years plus in grade 3 before taking her exam as the teacher who took grade 3 told everyone that grade 3 was especially complex even for talented dancers who picked up the work quickly. What she actually meant was that grade 3 was the last class she herself taught and she wanted to maximise her income from the grade 3 students before they went on to other teachers...which she confirmed as the truth to a mutual friend, who passed this on to me without realising that DD had been a student at that dance school. 

 

I’m not for a moment suggesting that this is the reason why your DD is being held back. However, as you say, her confidence will suffer and she will become bored and quite possibly disillusioned with ballet altogether if she has to wait so long to take her primary exam. If it were me I would ask for her to skip the primary exam and to be moved up to grade 1 (and possibly to join in some grade 2 classes if she would appreciate extra ‘stretching’). I would also have a look at alternative schools and their usual age bands within each grade so that you have other possibilities if that is refused. I would certainly not leave the situation as it is at present, given your DD’s age and her quiet personality, which may mean she loses all confidence and interest in her ballet if she is told that she has to wait even longer to take her primary exam. 

[Legseleven]

My apologies, for some reason my post has only just been sent and is now out of date - as you have been told that she may not miss her primary exam and may not move to grade 1 and she has reacted as might be expected to the news that she has to stay in primary for even longer, I think the only option is to move her to a different school. I agree with the advice to try out all of the possible schools, regardless of syllabus and to go with your gut feeling - and that of your girls - as to where they are best suited to progress. Lots of luck x

[Moonbeam]

13 minutes ago, Legseleven said:

My apologies, for some reason my post has only just been sent and is now out of date - as you have been told that she may not miss her primary exam and may not move to grade 1 and she has reacted as might be expected to the news that she has to stay in primary for even longer, I think the only option is to move her to a different school. I agree with the advice to try out all of the possible schools, regardless of syllabus and to go with your gut feeling - and that of your girls - as to where they are best suited to progress. Lots of luck x

Thank you, it’s crazy to think that this school keep them at each grade between 18 months and 2 years when most comments I’m receiving are saying it should be a lot quicker.  I think there’s some girls at age 14 just sat their grade 3 but I may be wrong.  It certainly doesn’t seem to pick up at any point down the line so I’ll keep my research going for other schools and see if we can get lots of trials to find a nice school that wants to push her a little bit or at least let her grow xx

[The_Red_Shoes]

42 minutes ago, Legseleven said:

 she would have had to spend at least 18 months if not 2 years plus in grade 3 before taking her exam as the teacher who took grade 3 told everyone that grade 3 was especially complex even for talented dancers who picked up the work quickly.

Actually, this is perfectly true, and I even overheard people on the RAD teacher training course talking (moaning actually!) about the huge emphasis put on Grade 3 in their course.

15 minutes ago, Moonbeam said:

 I think there’s some girls at age 14 just sat their grade 3

When you have younger children who are learning right from the beginning, it may not be obvious,  but the RAD grades are not based on age and the exam grades don't match up with school year groups. Children who start at 5, 6 and 7 will almost certainly be in the class that corresponds to the minimum age for taking that exam. However that very often gets out of synch as they go along and students don't always do one grade per year. Not to mention students who only start ballet at 9,10 or older. From Grade 3 onwards there is usually an age spread of several years within a class. Grade 3 is the level at which many late starters begin taking exams -so those 14 year olds may well have been dancing only for a year or two. Some adults learners start at Grade 3 too!

 

I'd say that you don't need to worry terribly that your daughter will be so behind that she will never get anywhere (my own daughter entered vocational school at 11 having only done up to Grade 2) but you don't want her feeling unstimulated, getting bored and losing enthusiasm.

[taxi4ballet]

43 minutes ago, Moonbeam said:

Thank you, it’s crazy to think that this school keep them at each grade between 18 months and 2 years when most comments I’m receiving are saying it should be a lot quicker.  I think there’s some girls at age 14 just sat their grade 3 but I may be wrong.  

14 and grade 3?! That's ridiculous, and quite frankly absurd. If the teacher can't get them to a sensible grade by that age then he/she is an appalling teacher.

 

I know my dd was pushed along a bit quicker, but she'd taken her grade 7 by then. Average recreatiional students who have been dancing a while should be in grade 5 or 6 at 14, and the very keen ones would probably starting a little pointe work in a vocational grade as well. Most teachers would probably start a 14-year-old complete beginner in grade 4.

 

Around 18 months for a recreational dancer is about right, although many schools only have exam sessions annually so some grades might take a year, others 2. One would normally expect a child of 8 to have already taken grade 1 (or be about to) and starting on grade 2. Not being held back so much that they haven't even taken primary yet.

 

In my view you need to get your dd out of there as soon as possible.