Favourite underappreciated dancers

[alison]

 

[alison]

51 minutes ago, penelopesimpson said:

For many of us who were there that night, the first we knew was when we walked through the doors and the place was buzzing with the news.  

 

Yet it had been announced a good 48 hours earlier.  True, too late for many people to get tickets, but then we don't know how late notice was given.

[yvonnep]

I only knew Deborah Bull from the ballet documentary she hosted and danced in. Her Two Pigeons final pas de deux with Adam Cooper remains my favorite version aside from the original cast(They were coached by Lynn Seymour). Also that pas de deux from The Invitation might be the only recording on the Internet of the dances between the Wife and the Boy. I was amazed by her after watching the documentary and was very disappointed to find out that few recordings were made of her.

 

James Hay’s lines and legato-style movements always remind me of the sense of harmony I see in great dancers of the past generations. I hope he’ll get more chances to prove himself in the future.

[bridiem]

9 hours ago, penelopesimpson said:

 

I know no more than anyone else, being reliant for information on media and social media reports, all available on public forums.

 

My point is not who was at fault or who said what to whom, but rather the management of their departure from the point of view of the paying public.  Alina and Johann were major stars, high calibre  artistes who had been at RB for a good length of time and who had brought acclaim to ROH through their performances.  Many people, like myself, followed them devotedly and had no reason to suspect that this pleasure was about to end so abruptly.

 

My argument is that whatever the circumstances, however strained relations might have become, RB owed it to their fans to organise a fitting tribute.  For many of us who were there that night, the first we knew was when we walked through the doors and the place was buzzing with the news.  It was too late for me to get any flowers although some people managed it and bouquets rained down at the end. And we all waited, and waited for somebody to come on and say something and nobody did.  I was in the Stalls and there was quite a few calls of ‘shame.’  KOH should have concentrated on what was due to fans who wanted to see their favourites honoured or, at the very least, recognised.  Years of outstanding performances should have counted for something.  When I contrast this shabby treatment with the endless tributes to Darcey and, subsequently, Acosta received, I feel quite sour.

 

 

I know nothing more about this, but I was horrified to find that it was to be their final performance and very relieved that by chance I had a ticket. But responsibility for the manner of dancers leaving a company lies with both parties. As far as I know we know nothing official from the RB's point of view, and given the generous send-offs that is the norm for senior dancers who leave this was a very unusual circumstance. Those of us at the performance did at least get a chance to show our appreciation. Why the company did/said nothing that night may one day come to light. I just feel blessed to have been able to watch them for so many years, and I regret the manner of their departure.

[JNC]

@penelopesimpson I didn't say discussing it was redundant, I just said I would like a bit more information/context as the articles you sometimes find online don't reflect what may (or may not be) common knowledge, or the information of those who were actually there that night.

 

Subsequently I can see you have written more about what actually happened that night, and @alison has shared a thread providing more information, both not breaching forums rules - I feel that has filled in some of the questions/blanks I had which is all I wanted really. 

 

I agree that discussions aid our understanding and wouldn't want things not to be discussed just because people may not know or be aware about them, but I think it is always helpful to provide further details if someone does ask (and in this case that happened so I'm happy!). 

 

I find it quite sad that whatever happened KOH didn't at least make a short appearance on stage to acknowledge their work and years with the company, but who knows what actually happened and most important to me is RB is currently flourishing under KOH's management. 

 

Also I have to agree with others that Johan/Alina are hardly under appreciated (at least now) - Alina is doing just fine at ENB, often doing opening/closing nights, getting excellent reviews and of course doing her own projects too. Johan similarly is still working, with his new R&J Verona meaning someone is clearly backing him financially and so he is able to continue the job he loves with a fair bit of publicity. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by JNC

[Jan McNulty]

Several senior lady dancers retired from BRB a few years ago with very little/no fanfare (we only realised one lady had left because a friend noticed her name had gone from the website!).

 

When we asked we were told that none of these dancers had wanted a public fuss.

[FionaM]

Alina Cojocaru doesn’t seem known outside ballet circles for the outstanding ballerina that she is and has been for 20+ years.  Of course that’s not quite the same as being under appreciated by ballet aficionados.

 

 

[capybara]

As far as I was concerned, Ross Stretton committed the unforgiveable sin of 'losing' Sarah Wildor at the height of her artistry.

 

[Fiz]

He also refused to consider the daughter of a Ballet Co friend. She smashed her audition but he dissented and she wasn’t signed. She was heartbroken and that and ditching Sarah Wildor, who we all loved in my family, was unforgivable as capybara says. 

[annamk]

Surely Royal Ballet current principal Alexander Campbell does not belong in a thread of under appreciated dancers ?  I can see that for those people for whom he is a favourite  would like to see him cast in everything eg Romeo but maybe KoH is trying to pursue a policy of casting more to type e.g. neither McRae nor Campbell as Onegin. Campbell has plenty of opportunities. 

[annamk]

On 22/08/2019 at 14:01, bridiem said:

 

I think Campbell is elegant anyway, because of his line and the precision of his dancing. You don't have to be tall to be elegant! (cf Lesley Collier.) And he has been a hugely believable and moving lover in a number of contexts.

 

This probably belongs in a separate thread but since it has been raised here. I agree that you do not need to be tall to be elegant, or to have a line and being tall does not necessarily confer elegance or line automatically. I think it is about proportion and maybe technique .... I am less sure. To me Campbell does not have a beautiful or elegant line, whereas James Hay who is a similar height does, as of course does the taller Vadim Muntagirov. Interestingly, I don't feel that Matthew Ball does although he is tall. They are just a few examples. 

[Two Pigeons]

21 minutes ago, annamk said:

Surely Royal Ballet current principal Alexander Campbell does not belong in a thread of under appreciated dancers ?  I can see that for those people for whom he is a favourite  would like to see him cast in everything eg Romeo but maybe KoH is trying to pursue a policy of casting more to type e.g. neither McRae nor Campbell as Onegin. Campbell has plenty of opportunities. 

 

This is all very true but my original point was that if he hadn't transferred to the Royal Ballet his career would have passed by virtually unnoticed by critics and/or television audiences.

[alison]

Ricardo Cervera.

[Legseleven]

The Telegraph article (thank you for sharing, JNC) is possibly illuminating in that it refers to Cojocaru and Kobborg announcing their resignation only days before their last ROH performance whilst also saying that Cojocaru and Rojo had agreed upon Cojocaru’s move to ENB in the spring. Obviously I don’t know whether it refers to their resignation being publicly announced only days before or whether it was only announced to the RB management days before, but the reference to Cojocaru and Rojo, who had recently also left the RB to take over at ENB, making the decision in the spring does perhaps indicate that this was without the knowledge of the RB management. 

As has been pointed out, we will never know the actual scenario and why it seemed that their last ROH performance was not as effusively marked as their audience may have wished it to be. Perhaps both ‘sides’ were hurt by the manner of the seemingly ‘all of a sudden’ departure of two of the RB’s stars. 

[loveclassics]

Re Kobborg's exit, I believe he had been retained by the ROH management to choregraph a new opera production.  Then, rather abruptly, a different choreographer was taken on for the opera and Kobborg was no longer mentioned in connection with it.  No public explanation was given and his departure from the RB followed shortly afterwards.

 

Linda

[loveclassics]

On 23/08/2019 at 07:39, yvonnep said:

I only knew Deborah Bull from the ballet documentary she hosted and danced in. Her Two Pigeons final pas de deux with Adam Cooper remains my favorite version aside from the original cast(They were coached by Lynn Seymour). Also that pas de deux from The Invitation might be the only recording on the Internet of the dances between the Wife and the Boy. I was amazed by her after watching the documentary and was very disappointed to find out that few recordings were made of her.

 

Deborah Bull can be seen in the MacMillan 'Prince of the Pagodas' DVD.  She has a soloist role as a Cloud but also danced the role of Epine during that season.

 

Linda

[LinMM]

Referring back to Nicola Katrak....sorry long way back now ....but I really liked her as a dancer too.

A few months back I had the unexpected pleasure of her attending a class  I attend regularly in London.

It was a while apparently since she had danced for her own pleasure and she was loving it!!

I am always amazed at how older ex dancers of Companies like the Royal keep their technique even when they may not have danced for a while they just always look good. 

One of the members of this class is ex ABT and older than me yet she can still get her head on knee and is SO beautiful in port de bras and adage. 

This is my favourite class of the week and inspite of all the ex professional talent in it they are so helpful and wanting to pass things on and share their knowledge ....completely on the level with us amateurs in the class! 

[Jamesrhblack]

On 22/08/2019 at 10:39, Two Pigeons said:

I would suggest another criterion we could consider.  This is very likely to be somewhat BRB centric but I would like to list a few artists who may be considered to be underappreciated or not but definitely finished their careers with very few filmed performances left as permanent records.

 

Patricia Ruanne

 

 

 

Unforgettable as Nureyev’s Juliet, especially her breakdown mourning Tybalt at the end of Act 2. Also, very fond memories of her as Giselle and her last performance as La Sylphide - she had a beautifully rounded shape which was very beautiful in Romantic works. Wasn’t quite so keen on her Aurora or Odette / Odile, but she remains in memory very much favourite, and, if I may so write (and a moderator will remove if I may not), I also thought her extraordinarily beautiful to behold.

[Two Pigeons]

1 hour ago, Jamesrhblack said:

 

Unforgettable as Nureyev’s Juliet, especially her breakdown mourning Tybalt at the end of Act 2. Also, very fond memories of her as Giselle and her last performance as La Sylphide - she had a beautifully rounded shape which was very beautiful in Romantic works. Wasn’t quite so keen on her Aurora or Odette / Odile, but she remains in memory very much favourite, and, if I may so write (and a moderator will remove if I may not), I also thought her extraordinarily beautiful to behold.

 

 

I was at her last Sylphide too.  I don't think I appreciated how very good she was in a role that really didn't play to any of her strengths.  I remember her most clearly as Tatiana.  For me she only had one peer in that role and that was Marcia Haydee.  It takes real gravitas, maturity and artistry to carry off the final scene as well as they did.

[Odyssey]

On 22/08/2019 at 10:39, Two Pigeons said:

I would suggest another criterion we could consider.  This is very likely to be somewhat BRB centric but I would like to list a few artists who may be considered to be underappreciated or not but definitely finished their careers with very few filmed performances left as permanent records.

 

 

 

Ann Jenner would qualify under this criterion too. How I wish there was a recording of her as Lise. One bonus is she appears in the recording of Enigma Variations as Antoinette Sibley was indisposed. There are two recording of her in Symphonic Variations, but the version available is very grainy,There is a later recording but I have only seen snippets which have  been shown in documentaries. 

[LinMM]

Is Ann Jenner not on a recording of Dances at a Gatthering somewhere? 

[Odyssey]

I don’t believe there is a recording available of the original  Royal Ballet cast, but I would be very happy if someone can prove me wrong. I think availability is the key- who  knows what has been recorded over the years for use by the Royal Ballet.

[LinMM]

I do know someone who may be able to find this out .....will send an email.