ROH's policy on acoustics

[ninamargaret]

Can anyone explain to me why the Bolshoi orchestra playing Spartacus at full power is no danger to those sitting in the extreme side stalls circle seats, whereas Manon and the Concerto Triple bill both have warnings  about loud music on the booking page, and the side stalls seats near to the orchestra are not sold?  Similarly, the recent Welsh National Opera production of War and Peace opened up the extreme side stalls circle seats, whereas Marriage of Figaro, a far gentler affair, didnt. I thought this policy was to protect the orchestra, so maybe it's only the ROH orchestra that is in need of protection, in which case why warn the audience that Manon may be a bit too loud?

[alison]

It is indeed to protect the "house" orchestra - an EU directive, I believe, although why it doesn't apply to the Bolshoi while the UK is still in the EU I don't know.  As for the Manons and Concertos, perhaps it's what productions they are scheduled along with?  I thought there was a cumulative limit to the noise exposure per week, or some such, so if there was a really loud opera on at the same time that might affect things.  I'm sure bangorballetboy will be able to tell us more in due course.

[penelopesimpson]

Perhaps the Russians do not share our passion for Elf ‘n’ Safety?

[Bluebird]

On 10/08/2019 at 23:12, ninamargaret said:

Can anyone explain to me why the Bolshoi orchestra playing Spartacus at full power is no danger to those sitting in the extreme side stalls circle seats, whereas Manon and the Concerto Triple bill both have warnings  about loud music on the booking page, and the side stalls seats near to the orchestra are not sold?  Similarly, the recent Welsh National Opera production of War and Peace opened up the extreme side stalls circle seats, whereas Marriage of Figaro, a far gentler affair, didnt. 

 

The stalls circle bench seats you mention above were, in fact, released for Figaro.  They are almost always released for Mozart operas.

[fashionista]

I have always regretted the removal of the Stage seats - they were my preferred choice - A11 and A12.  I do think these EU regulations are rather OTT  and if it is "harmful" to one's hearing, then if visiting companies are performing, then surely they should conform to the EU regulations?  I really do not think seating near the orchestra has a detrimental affect upon one's hearing.  If so, why is the first row of the Stalls not affected and how about the members of the orchestra ?!!!!  

[bridiem]

There was more about this in a thread about orchestra noise last year - see

including the fact that the pit has been extended on many occasions. I don't remember reading anything about it being for the protection of the audience though - maybe I missed that?!

Edited August 13, 2019 by bridiem

[bangorballetboy]

35 minutes ago, fashionista said:

I have always regretted the removal of the Stage seats - they were my preferred choice - A11 and A12.  I do think these EU regulations are rather OTT  and if it is "harmful" to one's hearing, then if visiting companies are performing, then surely they should conform to the EU regulations?  I really do not think seating near the orchestra has a detrimental affect upon one's hearing.  If so, why is the first row of the Stalls not affected and how about the members of the orchestra ?!!!!  

 

It's not for the audience's protection but for the musicians.  The seats are removed so that the floor can be opened up, which allows the sound to dissipate into the auditorium.  This allows the "music" from the brass (being amongst the loudest instruments in the orchestra) to go in several directions rather than being pushed in one direction towards the other members of the orchestra.

[bangorballetboy]

And, to be clear, I'm all in favour of anything the ROH does to protect the well-being of its musicians (and the rest of its workforce).

[Scheherezade]

Does anyone know why the Russians do not consider it expedient to protect the hearing of their musicians? If sound levels are harmful, the enforcement or otherwise of EU regulations should not be the deciding factor. If they are not harmful then EU dictats should not come into play. 

[FLOSS]

Could it be that they are simply applying their own own rules , if any, about working hours and noise levels? The Bolshoi is only resident at Covent Garden because the impresarios who have arranged their visit have arranged that the theatre  should be rented out for the company's use .I don't know whether the  working hours directive and other regulations intended to protect people at work and provide for safe systems of work have exemption clauses which apply to visiting foreign companies or not. I somehow doubt that they do provide for such exceptions but in real life the fact is that an awful lot of health and safety regulations are ignored by employers and those breaches only come to light when someone complains about it. In a workplace with strong union representation the regulations tend to be followed because the union rep is the built in policing system. In workplaces which have no internal policing system because there is no union representation or the union is weak you tend to find that regulations are ignored  and you only find out about breaches when someone is so seriously injured as a result of noncompliance that they sue. In the context of the Bolshoi's visit who among the company's employees is going to complain about what may well be to them no more than their usual system of work ? If no one speaks up we shall never know.

 

It is all too easy to make fun of health and safety regulations if you have a mind to do so. When you read about such regulations in the popular press they speak in terms of red tape and the nanny state  but I always bear in mind that one person's unnecessary red tape is someone else's safe system of work. It is all too easy to persuade  people who have no experience of a particular occupation that the regulations which govern it are an unnecessary fetter on the freedom of employer and employees to work things out between them ignoring their relative bargaining power. Many publications seem to employ journalists skilled in exaggerating the effects of regulations  governing working conditions, making them sound ludicrous  in the extreme and in some cases going so far as to invent regulations to make their point. Last year we had a discussion about the potential damage to musicians' hearing prompted by the news that the ROH was being sued by a member of the  orchestra. It is well worth reading for the range of opinion expressed in it.

 

Edited August 13, 2019 by FLOSS

[ninamargaret]

Thanks for all your comments and explanations - it all makes sense and I fully appreciate any regulations that protect orchestral musicians. I do, however find it off that the protection doesn't extend to visitors, or for that matter, the audience. And after Spartacus i found the ROH's warning about the loud orchestra in Manon etc slightly amusing.