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SwissBalletFan

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Further to my post in the RB Japan your thread:
 
In my time as a member of this forum I have seen that many threads tend to split from the amazing input of the posters sharing their knowledge or views on the subject, and other ‘OT or comments on comments’. I propose a solution to this could be offshoot discussion or posts that go into OT or offensive content be separated into an Separate thread by a mod with Spin Off of O/T followed by the name of the thread. for example: RB Japan Tour (Off Topic) or RB Japan tour (Spin Off)
 

In this way, the focus of the thread remains as described, and also especially when it becomes closed due to heated discussions that do not apply to the original topic.

such as: Moving a heated Polunin discussion from Polunin News to Polunin News (Spin Off ).

 

i can imagine the moderators would be cringing at the extra threads, but it would be only for major threads with a substantial OT portion. This could also allow maybe the more heated discussions to be ‘taken outside’ with a public health warning at the beginning of the thread to protect innocent eyes and dispositions (like mine ;) ) and to keep the main topic and feeling of the forum  as a friendly, informative and happy place to be.

 

just a proposal, I am thankful for the work of the Moderators, and enjoy the forum. If anyone is interested to discuss the

merits or shortcomings please do. 

 

 

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I am sure noone meant any issues with the names, though maybe just a usual polite Janet reply of thank you for the review FYI Vadream is Vadim Muntagirov and Nela is Ms Nunez. I don’t think many if any other dancers have popular nicknames, so its only a matter of a small clarification.

 

 

SBF, I take your point on board about the thank you but I could hardly respond exactly as you suggest if I haven't got a clue to whom the nicknames are attributed.

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1 hour ago, Jan McNulty said:

 

SBF, I take your point on board about the thank you but I could hardly respond exactly as you suggest if I haven't got a clue to whom the nicknames are attributed.

 

How about a pinned Glossary thread so that you can list, among other things, both of the very well known nicknames used and known by the majority of the forum......you previously acted as though someone who is very close personal friends with the dancers was using very obscure 'inner circle' nicknames like Poopy and Whizzer

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2 hours ago, SwissBalletFan said:
Further to my post in the RB Japan your thread:
 
In my time as a member of this forum I have seen that many threads tend to split from the amazing input of the posters sharing their knowledge or views on the subject, and other ‘OT or comments on comments’. I propose a solution to this could be offshoot discussion or posts that go into OT or offensive content be separated into an Separate thread by a mod with Spin Off of O/T followed by the name of the thread. for example: RB Japan Tour (Off Topic) or RB Japan tour (Spin Off)
 

In this way, the focus of the thread remains as described, and also especially when it becomes closed due to heated discussions that do not apply to the original topic.

such as: Moving a heated Polunin discussion from Polunin News to Polunin News (Spin Off ).

 

i can imagine the moderators would be cringing at the extra threads, but it would be only for major threads with a substantial OT portion. This could also allow maybe the more heated discussions to be ‘taken outside’ with a public health warning at the beginning of the thread to protect innocent eyes and dispositions (like mine ;) ) and to keep the main topic and feeling of the forum  as a friendly, informative and happy place to be.

 

just a proposal, I am thankful for the work of the Moderators, and enjoy the forum. If anyone is interested to discuss the

merits or shortcomings please do. 

 

 

 

sounds a bit of a waste of time, if you ask me. But if anyone wants to start a fresh thread, and all the confusion that would no doubt follow, we can't really expect the moderators to then copy posts into the 'correct thread' when posts inevitably go to the wrong one.

 

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1 hour ago, Jan McNulty said:

 

SBF, I take your point on board about the thank you but I could hardly respond exactly as you suggest if I haven't got a clue to whom the nicknames are attributed.

 

I think that the poster using the nicknames should be politely asked to make the clarification for all that don't know the nicknames. Shouldn't have to happen that often though, I would hope...

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Posted (edited)

As a reasonably frequent ballet goer I’d neither seen nor heard anyone referring to them by either of those nicknames before I started reading this forum above occasionally, not even in my habitual chats with regular ballet goers at ROH. (And if you don’t believe me, there’s probably nothing I can do to persuade you.)

 

Are we suggesting that people who don’t follow this forum closely (or are members of the Ballet Association or stage door regulars or wherever else such nicknames are in common use) aren't worth our consideration?

 

I’m not blaming any individuals for not using surnames - it’s very easy to neglect to check that it’s clear to the casual visitor who we’re talking about - but I can’t see the harm in an occasional reminder.

 

Only consider - if our wonderful German correspondents, for example, were to use exclusively nicknames or first names of dancers, I’d soon pretty much switch off. Don’t we owe them - and the many occasional visitors to this forum - the same courtesy they afford us?

Edited by Lizbie1
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May I check if using surnames only is alright? Or do we have to use both first name and surname upon first mention of each dancer in a post? I pretty much always use just surnames because it is quicker than full names & I do not feel comfortable using first names as I do not know the dancers.

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4 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

May I check if using surnames only is alright? Or do we have to use both first name and surname upon first mention of each dancer in a post? I pretty much always use just surnames because it is quicker than full names & I do not feel comfortable using first names as I do not know the dancers.

 

I quite often use surnames only, Dawnstar.  

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We have never had a written guideline on the use of nicknames. Do we need one?.

 

One can assume that nicknames are generally used in a friendly or affectionate way but there is always the implication of a closer relationship to the dancer than probably exists. There is also the matter of disrespecting or demeaning the dancer by referring to them publicly in this way. Maybe of relevance is that dancers, in the UK at least, are no longer referred to as girls and boys.

 

This discussion began because of Janet's reasonable reminder that nicknames may be unknown to some or many of our users. This can give the unfortunate impression of the forum as having an in-group of ballet cognoscenti who can catch all the references versus those who don't, who may well feel that they are less important in some way. This then becomes a matter of respect between members.

 

Dawnstar's use of surnames seems fine. We don't need to go so far as having to use Ms Osipva or Mr McRae!

 

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48 minutes ago, Rob S said:

 

How about a pinned Glossary thread so that you can list, among other things, both of the very well known nicknames used and known by the majority of the forum......you previously acted as though someone who is very close personal friends with the dancers was using very obscure 'inner circle' nicknames like Poopy and Whizzer

 

Or how about people refer to dancers by their given names on what is a public forum, visible to anyone with internet access?  It’s hardly a huge effort to type Nuñez instead of Nela, for example.  If someone knows a dancer very well then it’s one thing but just because Vadim Muntagirov’s partners give him a nickname it doesn’t mean that we should all refer to him as “Vadream” - it seems overly familiar for one thing but for visitors who don’t follow Royal, they’re not going to have a clue who we’re talking about.  If a dancer with Scottish Ballet or Ballet Cymru had a nickname I would be flummoxed if people kept referring to it.

 

All Jan does is point this out so I’m not sure if you meant to sound so rude but I’m afraid it came across that way to me.

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We don’t need a glossary, nor to start splitting threads.  As with verbal discussions, it’s natural that threads veer off course.  When they do, a moderator or member usually pulls it back on course.  

 

It is a moderator’s job to be fair to everyone, and we try to do that as well as we can.  Jan’s comment was simply a reminder that not everyone is privy to nicknames, no matter what company is being discussed.  She certainly wasn’t trying to offend anyone, or indeed stir such controversy.  She was simply doing what a moderator should do and see the bigger picture.  Personally I was glad of the reminder because a couple of days ago I, a mod, referred to a dancer by his nickname without thinking.  I will remember now that there are lots of people who probably have no idea who I was talking about, so going forward I will use proper names, and we ask that everyone else do that too, to avoid confusion or causing people to feel excluded. 

 

I hope this matter is now closed, and that we can move on to discussing what we all love.  

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13 minutes ago, Sim said:

We don’t need a glossary, nor to start splitting threads.  As with verbal discussions, it’s natural that threads veer off course.  When they do, a moderator or member usually pulls it back on course.  

 

It is a moderator’s job to be fair to everyone, and we try to do that as well as we can.  Jan’s comment was simply a reminder that not everyone is privy to nicknames, no matter what company is being discussed.  She certainly wasn’t trying to offend anyone, or indeed stir such controversy.  She was simply doing what a moderator should do and see the bigger picture.  Personally I was glad of the reminder because a couple of days ago I, a mod, referred to a dancer by his nickname without thinking.  I will remember now that there are lots of people who probably have no idea who I was talking about, so going forward I will use proper names, and we ask that everyone else do that too, to avoid confusion or causing people to feel excluded. 

 

I hope this matter is now closed, and that we can move on to discussing what we all love.  

 

A few observations and learnings for me.

 

1) This thread was started as an optional discussion topic, that people can read if interested, not really integral to ballet information itself, so an off topic about names and surnames is fine by me.

 

2) as to the original point of the thread, I am glad that the discussion of names has been taken away from the RB Japan thread, so it kind of shows a separate thread can help.

 

3) I think that the discussion has been fruitful and people have been polite and the thread was gaining some convergence in how to use names.

 

4) I don’t know If there is some hierarchy or authority between the mods or in the forum administration, but @Sim it was my impression that all mods speak on their own behalf, and to close off discussion that we don’t need x or y, and this discussion should be closed is rather unnecessary. if It is your opinion, then its better to say that, and of course opinions are what makes the forum go around (and around.. and around). Of course please accept my apologies if you are the nominated authoritative voice of the administration of the site.

 

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I am Chair so yes, I do speak for the other mods in matters of how the forum is run.  

 

Apologies accepted.  

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58 minutes ago, Anna C said:

 

Or how about people refer to dancers by their given names on what is a public forum, visible to anyone with internet access?  It’s hardly a huge effort to type Nuñez instead of Nela, for example.  If someone knows a dancer very well then it’s one thing but just because Vadim Muntagirov’s partners give him a nickname it doesn’t mean that we should all refer to him as “Vadream” - it seems overly familiar for one thing but for visitors who don’t follow Royal, they’re not going to have a clue who we’re talking about.  If a dancer with Scottish Ballet or Ballet Cymru had a nickname I would be flummoxed if people kept referring to it.

 

All Jan does is point this out so I’m not sure if you meant to sound so rude but I’m afraid it came across that way to me.

 

And I'm sure Jan didn't mean to sound so rude but it came across that way to me and others.

I think the feelings of a person writing a very useful review in a second or third language should take priority over a possible moment or two of confusion for a reader of a thread about a ballet company they don't follow. Before Jan had posted someone had already referred to Vadim and Marianela which is more than enough to satisfy her reasoning. 'Nela' is a well known enough nickname in the ballet world for it to have been used as the title of a film about her, while Vadim Muntagirov's partners have given him a nickname that countless ballet fans can relate to and from time to time post it to refer to him without the equivalent of 'who's she? the cat's mother?' type responses.

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Speaking personally, I think everyone should remember that every moderator is a complete volunteer, who gives up a significant amount of their valuable time to ensure this forum continues to exist and, to the best of their ability, that it exists in a friendly and user-friendly way that is open to all who do not abuse it.  They are also people with feelings, just like everyone else.

 

I have previously resigned as a trustee of this forum and as a moderator because of comments on the site aimed at moderators specifically and generally.  Sim convinced me to withdraw that resignation.  There may come a time again when I am minded that such a resignation is the only appropriate option and other moderators may take the same view.

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It is certainly very difficult to be a moderator, I would not like to be in your place that's for sure.

 

Moderators certainly have to be strict but they have to be welcoming and encouraging as well !  

 

It was not case the other day with Naomi, we all know it....

 

In France we have the example of a ballet forum where the moderator is very/too strict...

 

The result is now very simple :  after a huge success during years people are now kind of "scared" to participate, which is a real pity.

 

Some days there are no posts anymore...

 

Here the way the forum is organized is very different and it's a pleasure to come and read it.

 

 

 

 

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