glissade Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Vonrothbart said: If they can see whether a 7 year old child has it or not, after only a few minutes, how come they get it wrong so often. From their perspective, they probably don't get it wrong. If their aim is to select the best-fit bodies and they end up with a JA class of best-fit bodies, then they have been successful. They then reassess over successive years and gradually whittle down their original selection to include only the best-fit bodies that have all the other attributes needed by a dancer. If other best-fit bodies happen to turn up to auditions in that time, then they have a chance of replacing the best-fit bodies that failed to develop into their best-fit potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sally-Anne Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Vonrothbart said: If they can see whether a 7 year old child has it or not, after only a few minutes, how come they get it wrong so often. For a number of reasons. Firstly, they are trying to guess what a child’s body is going to do over time, this is a bit like fortune telling, As we know, anything can, and does, happen with bodies, especially at puberty. I was told by someone involved with the royal ballet school audition process that for the white lodge/upper school auditions that they will invite the parents for a ‘chat’ during the process. This is actually so they can see the parents bodies and get a better idea of what might happen over time! (This was a few years ago, not sure if it is still the case) Also, children can improve in certain aspects, flexibility can increase sometimes with work, as can feet - they can become stronger and more flexible over time, among other things. Another thing is that these initial JA auditions don’t really take account of the things that can’t necessarily be taught - innate musicality, gift for acting/expressing emotion with the body, natural ability to make movement flow organically. Sometimes, these things can counterbalance the need for an absolutely perfect body. And, they are human! They can just miss a child who will turn in to a lovely dancer, or select one who never will. The focus is on bodies, and they can see if the body is what they are looking for very quickly, but that isn’t the whole picture. They are looking at a body in a moment in time, that why a no isn’t ever final at this age, it’s just a not now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD Driver Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 My DD and I went through this a few years ago when she did similar auditions. She has the ability to pick up choreography quickly and her strength and flexibility are very advanced. This came from a lot of hard work and determination! Her body shape however does not fit with what they wanted! Not really the message you want to send as a parent of a young girl - agghhh. After a series of rejections we decided to stay away from this scene for a few years to see how she develops over time. Of course her hip bones will not change! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxidriver Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) Just curious but does anyone know if a hypermobile child who was able to do all exercises they tested still not get in? She had very good back flexibility, could do frog both ways, box splits and the strange leg/hip test perfectly. Edited June 5, 2019 by Taxidriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) If too hypermobile this can be considered a weakness. How good is he/she at jumping? They do look at musicality and performance, this will show in every step, it is not a thing apart. The improvisation - currently being a piece of seaweed - also shows this side of the dancer. Edited June 5, 2019 by Pas de Quatre Add sentence 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Foo Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 If a child is physically not what they’re looking for - not long enough legs for example, or too broad shoulders, then it won’t matter how flexible or hyper mobile they are. Some physical aspects just can’t be changed and that’s that. Hypermobility can also be a negative with regards to control of the joints and needs much careful training. There are different levels of hyper mobility and a very extreme case may prove too difficult. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxidriver Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 That makes perfect sense - thank you. I thought it was always a weakness if I’m honest until reading into hip flexibility and rotation for turnout. No idea re jumps. To be honest I’m clueless about lots of dance things. She’s not hypermobile everywhere (not knees) and isn’t one of these acro super bendy girls but her hip rotation and back are particularly bendy. What will be will be. She’s average in terms of body size/limb length. Maybe towards edge of longer legs than some of her peers but certainly not willowy. Just nice to understand and know more Thank you 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieN Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Taxidriver said: Just curious but does anyone know if a hypermobile child who was able to do all exercises they tested still not get in? She had very good back flexibility, could do frog both ways, box splits and the strange leg/hip test perfectly. Just echoing the other comments. I personally know a young dancer with extraordinary spine flexibility who had a straight "no". I do not know why they turned her down (her parents did not seek feedback), but it wasn't because she couldn't achieve the flexibility tests. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonrothbart Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Just my point exactly, in other words they can't always tell in a matter of minutes whether someone either "has it or hasn't" as the ones who don't make it early can be the ones who succeed later on. Oh and vice versa. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glissade Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 21 minutes ago, Vonrothbart said: Just my point exactly, in other words they can't always tell in a matter of minutes whether someone either "has it or hasn't" as the ones who don't make it early can be the ones who succeed later on. Oh and vice versa. We're arguing the same point. The RBS can tell in a matter of minutes who "has it" according to their own criteria. However, RBS criteria can't be taken as the definitive assessment of who, in reality, will or will not succeed as a dancer. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Nobody has a crystal ball! Selection is made on who looks right and has potential at that point in time. Things do change as children grow, and long term some late bloomers gain places, others do not progress as hoped and are assessed out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Good luck to anybody whose DC are auditioning in Dundee today! 🤞 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonrothbart Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 6 hours ago, glissade said: We're arguing the same point. The RBS can tell in a matter of minutes who "has it" according to their own criteria. However, RBS criteria can't be taken as the definitive assessment of who, in reality, will or will not succeed as a dancer. Sorry glissade but RBS have turned down many a young dancer, only to accept them later, that's the point I'm trying to make. I'm certainly not criticising them at all, as imho it's not possible to get it right as easy as that, not only for body changes too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonrothbart Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 17 hours ago, Sally-Anne said: For a number of reasons. Firstly, they are trying to guess what a child’s body is going to do over time, this is a bit like fortune telling, As we know, anything can, and does, happen with bodies, especially at puberty. I was told by someone involved with the royal ballet school audition process that for the white lodge/upper school auditions that they will invite the parents for a ‘chat’ during the process. This is actually so they can see the parents bodies and get a better idea of what might happen over time! (This was a few years ago, not sure if it is still the case) Also, children can improve in certain aspects, flexibility can increase sometimes with work, as can feet - they can become stronger and more flexible over time, among other things. Another thing is that these initial JA auditions don’t really take account of the things that can’t necessarily be taught - innate musicality, gift for acting/expressing emotion with the body, natural ability to make movement flow organically. Sometimes, these things can counterbalance the need for an absolutely perfect body. And, they are human! They can just miss a child who will turn in to a lovely dancer, or select one who never will. The focus is on bodies, and they can see if the body is what they are looking for very quickly, but that isn’t the whole picture. They are looking at a body in a moment in time, that why a no isn’t ever final at this age, it’s just a not now So you agree they really can't tell whether a child has/hasn't got it in a few minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpatB Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 18 minutes ago, Vonrothbart said: So you agree they really can't tell whether a child has/hasn't got it in a few minutes. I think they can tell if the child has what they’re looking for there and then. But they don’t have a crystal ball. Girls develop differently, very differently. They could lose interest as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sally-Anne Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 20 minutes ago, Vonrothbart said: So you agree they really can't tell whether a child has/hasn't got it in a few minutes. Yes I do agree. Also depends what you mean by ‘has it’. RBS is not the be all and end all of ballet schools, you could never be accepted and still ‘make it’ as a dancer, but they can tell quickly which children have what THEY are looking for at that moment in time. What RBS looks for is not the definitive version of ‘having it’ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glissade Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 29 minutes ago, Vonrothbart said: Sorry glissade but RBS have turned down many a young dancer, only to accept them later, that's the point I'm trying to make. I'm certainly not criticising them at all, as imho it's not possible to get it right as easy as that, not only for body changes too. Being perfectly honest, Vonrothbart, I have no idea why you're apologising to me as, from my point of view, we're both saying the same thing. Confused. But never mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazel Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Well this time last year the lists were being checked and the first results batch was waiting to be sent (first centre results got sent 6th June). Who was first audition centre this year? I’d be surprised, given Dundee, if they’re anywhere like that early this year....but then again might not hold it up at all....what are the chances of someone auditioning in Dundee for a London or further south centre??? Fingers crossed they’re nice and ‘early’ again.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletboy8 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 On 04/06/2019 at 17:25, Lottie77 said: There are (i believe) 12 year 4/5 places Hi Lottie - many thanks for this 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Yep Hazel, that’s all auditions finally complete! Newcastle was first this year on April 30th. Really hoping we find out soon and like you say that Dundee doesn’t hold it up too much! I think looking back at previous threads it’s been quite early for a few years so I’m keeping my fingers crossed it’s soon! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButterflyBallerina Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Birmingham have been 13th June the last 2 years xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 That’s promising then Butterfly, hopefully we will have a repeat of the same! 🙏 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrid Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 @hazel I did wonder the same, what are the chance, but then some may have put Newcastle as a choice , and so that would delay things slightly because Newcastle are first out. not that I have been thinking about this *at all* 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazel Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 @Astrid 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancing unicorn Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Yeh my little student auditioned in Birmingham for a Manchester place! So I’m not sure if we’re waiting for Birmingham or Manchester order haha 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 I think the results come out with the centre they auditioned at, is that right? Even if they’ve requested a place at another centre? Sooo many things to speculate about and keep us busy until results! Ha x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrid Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, Dancing unicorn said: Yeh my little student auditioned in Birmingham for a Manchester place! So I’m not sure if we’re waiting for Birmingham or Manchester order haha 😂 I reckon it will be with Birmingham Dancing Unicorn! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunrise81 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 They come out with the centre they auditioned at rather than where they auditioned for. My dd goes to Leeds but had to audition in London in the very last audition. We saw the Leeds results come out but had to wait another good week before the London ones arrived! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopelessMummy Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Dancing unicorn said: Yeh my little student auditioned in Birmingham for a Manchester place! So I’m not sure if we’re waiting for Birmingham or Manchester order haha 😂 Birmingham 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancing unicorn Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) Thank you ladies, so waiting for Birmingham results 😁 Edited June 5, 2019 by Dancing unicorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinyNEDancer Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 <not at all waiting for Newcastle results 😬🤪😀> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazel Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 8 minutes ago, TinyNEDancer said: <not at all waiting for Newcastle results 😬🤪😀> Well however it goes you’ll be our favourite person if you let us know as soon as you hear 😂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PutYourBooteesOn Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Also waiting for Newcastle here but I would be extremely surprised if we hear before Tuesday/Wednesday next week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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