General advice for a young ballet dancer (15yo)

[Rein2019]

Hi, I am new to this so apologies if I have posted in the wrong place. My daughter has been dancing since was 3. She is now 15. She loves ballet and does at least 4 lessons a week of it including pointe and different types of ballet. 

I feel we can not approach her dance teachers to ask them what they think of her as a ballet dancer.(I’m actually struggling to word this just in case they are on here and will twig who I am) I have seen her dance numerous times in shows and competitions and always feel she stands out. Of course I am biased. I have even taken a friend who has no connection to dance to see her and he commented that she shone and stood out. I am completely open to critical judgement off her as I do think that is healthy for development. Is there any where I can take her to get an honest opinion of her dance technique??

She told me yesterday that her classmates say she is showing off because she can do certain positions well and high. She is often used as an Example in lessons. What does not help is she is in a mixed ability class. Basically any new ones that start are put in their lessons and they then have to go over everything again. Being 15 she still has a love for ballet and wants to continue which we are happy for her to do but want her to achieve everything to her potential. (If that makes sense?)

I guess we are just after advise and views

Sorry if it sounds rambled 

 

[Jan McNulty]

Hello Rein2019 and welcome to the Forum!

[Balletdream]

Hi , were are you based ??

which area if you don’t mind me asking ?? 

[Rein2019]

We are on the south coast. 😊

[Balletdream]

If you could get to Birmingham look at Nicholsonschoolofdance , excellent teacher ex BRB , would give you honest opinion, and comes very highly recommended , well worth thinking about . Hope your daughter finds her way and follows her passion . She helped my daughter and we still have private’s when she’s home . 

[Kat09]

1 hour ago, Rein2019 said:

We are on the south coast. 😊

If you are Hampshire South Coast I can recommend someone - send me a PM if I can help

[Ruby Foo]

How about Sarah Toner in North London?

She is ex BRB, has a successful school and will give you an honest opinion.

Has your Dd been studying any particular method? Done any exams? 

To be thinking about a career in classical  ballet and going to a classically based upper school at 16 you really need to be of a very high technical standard indeed. Still achievable though with huge amounts of potential and hard graft!

[Littleone]

Hi Rein2019

I think I read on here  ( correct me if I'm wrong) that Janet Lewis who runs  English Youth Ballet has done individual assessments for dancers . I notice that the next EYB auditions are in Hastings on 4th Feb and Weymouth 6th Feb - not sure if either of those are close to you . Might be worth an enquiry ... also would recommend EYB for a great experience for your DD in a less 'mixed ability' environment ?

 

[CeliB]

In case you are in the Brighton/Sussex area I have to say DSs teacher (does classes in Brighton/Hassocks/Hurstpierpoint) has always been absolutely honest about dancers potential - and her assessment of DS's potential was pretty accurate (he made it to the Bolshoi after all). Other dancers she has assessed as having potential have gone on to get places at top vocational schools... She is very kind and encouraging and happy to teach anyone who wants to learn -my DD continued to take class with her up to leaving to go to med school despite knowing she had no expectation whatsoever of ballet other than a hobby, and she has a dedicated adult class too, so she isn't elitist, just very, very good at judging ability...

Happy to forward her details...

[Anna C]

5 hours ago, valentina said:

How about Sarah Toner in North London?

She is ex BRB, has a successful school and will give you an honest opinion.

Has your Dd been studying any particular method? Done any exams? 

To be thinking about a career in classical  ballet and going to a classically based upper school at 16 you really need to be of a very high technical standard indeed. Still achievable though with huge amounts of potential and hard graft!

 

I was just going to ask if Rein’s daughter has taken any ballet exams.  Although they are of course a snapshot of how a dancer is performing on a particular day, they do give a rough idea of what level a dancer is at.  At 15 and wanting a place for post 16 ballet training I would expect a dancer to be working towards RAD Advanced 1 or equivalent.  Does your dd’s school do exams?

 

Another indicator for a non fulltime teenage dancer is whether they have successfully auditioned for Associate classes at a good established school (so Royal Ballet Senior/Advanced Associates, Central School of Ballet’s Pre-Seniors and so on (or an established independent scheme like London Junior and Senior Ballet).  They’re not the be-all and end-all but when you only dance at a “recreational” school and are top in your class, it can be beneficial to see your standard compared to 20 similar dancers from all over the country who are at the top of their recreational school.   

 

Also auditioned or selective summer schools - they’re a lovely way to check standard and learn from different teachers.   Obviously you don’t want to give too much away here but are there any other dance schools in your area that get ballet students into good upper schools? If so, could your daughter take a trial class there? 

 

 

[Rein2019]

She has done exams and been always graded a distinction. She also does cecchetti. She isn’t at the grade she should be as I have found out today through PM’s which is annoying. But this is the same for another girl her age who has been then longer. 

I just want to know if she has potential to take it further if she wanted to. I guess I’m just not happy that I’m paying for her to be going over the same syllabus every time someone new starts in their class. And the fact girls on lower grades are in her class. 

You have to forgive me as I am not up to speed with all the terms used and types of ballet schools etc. 

[CeliB]

So pondering your post whilst I potter around my Sunday domestic chores and I think what is worth saying (amongst the good advice above) is: do you and, more importantly, your DD know what it is she is aiming for? Does she really want to pursue a career in ballet (or any kind of dance- and recall these 2 aims may require very different training) and thus want to know if she has the potential for this? Or does she just want to be the best recreational dancer she can be e.g. fulfil her potential to the best of her ability but not make dance her whole life? Or is she mainly a bit bored of doing the same class over and over again and frustrated with being in mixed ability and not really challenged (and believe me I understand this- as due to scheduling issues my DD ended up doing the same RAD grade 5 class for 3 years after having done grades 3 and 4 together in 6 months!).

 

I get from your post above that ballet is not your comfort zone (and I've certainly got that t shirt) so I wonder if you/she have any idea what you might be letting yourself in for if she decides to 'take it further'? At 15 she would need to get up to speed REALLY fast to have a chance at vocational school at 6th form level. Most serious ballet dancers at 15 are doing upwards of 20-25 hours a week at vocational school and whilst it is possible to get into vocational school 6th form with less hours it is the minority who manage this (and would I think require a pretty ferocious level of innate talent).

 

Clearly it's hard to answer these kinds of question without knowing what her potential is (it's a bit chicken and egg isnt it?), so I totally would encourage you to find someone who can give you a good evaluation. But it's worth starting to think about and discuss her the eventual aim at the same time so that you have some idea where to go with the outcome of the evaluation! I speak from experience, having been somewhat stunned when our DS decided to try out for summer school, went, was offered a full scholarship to vocational school and left home all in the space of 6 months. And at 15 she can't be hanging around too long before committing (if she wants to go for a career).

 

Sorry - reading this back it sounds a bit doom laden - I don't mean to be, just warning you that if she steps on that roller coaster you need to be prepared to feel the G force!

 

[Rein2019]

I have spoken to her and asked her what her aim is as she is very academic also. I think her studies will always come first but also suspect that if she was given the opportunity she would like to progress her dancing skills further. She just needs to guided correctly. I’m just her mum who wants her to be happy and succeed in all she does.

I think I’ll definitely find a way to get her assessed and then weigh the options up with her. 

[Anna C]

33 minutes ago, Rein2019 said:

I have spoken to her and asked her what her aim is as she is very academic also. I think her studies will always come first but also suspect that if she was given the opportunity she would like to progress her dancing skills further. She just needs to guided correctly. I’m just her mum who wants her to be happy and succeed in all she does.

I think I’ll definitely find a way to get her assessed and then weigh the options up with her. 

 

That sounds like a good plan.  If she is very academic then lots of Unis have excellent dance societies and/or competition teams.  That’s a great way of keeping up your dance and fitness while studying.   Whatever her eventual aim, if she wants to go further in ballet then it does sound as if a change of dance school might be necessary.  A mixed ability class at 15, going over and over the same work, is not ideal for someone who wants to progress; whether she wants to try for full time ballet training or even get some Vocational exams under her belt before Uni just for personal satisfaction.  If there are other dance schools within travelling distance that happily send their students off to full time training then I think the time has come to shop around and try some classes elsewhere.  

[thewinelake]

Sounds like you could look for a better dance school....

[annekh510]

3 hours ago, Rein2019 said:

I have spoken to her and asked her what her aim is as she is very academic also. I think her studies will always come first but also suspect that if she was given the opportunity she would like to progress her dancing skills further. She just needs to guided correctly. I’m just her mum who wants her to be happy and succeed in all she does.

I think I’ll definitely find a way to get her assessed and then weigh the options up with her. 

 

To be honest with those aims I don't think you need an assessment. Clearly the current school is not big enough or serious enough if they keep adding new people, a mixed ability class is not appropriate for someone who has been dancing 12 years. 4 classes a week is about the most a small school can offer, most students aiming for vocational schools are taking extra classes in various ways. I was pretty similar to your daughter, a good dancer, wanting to take it seriously but not interested in professional or attempting to get into a vocational school. Fortunately my main dance school was a better starting point than you currently have, I was typically doing a midweek class at grade level and a Saturday class at grade level, separate pointe class and then depending on the time table I'd often join in at the back of either the grade above or grade below. So that's your first step, find a dance school that has graded classes, not mixed ability classes, if it's a different syllabus to what she's done they'll try her our in one class and move up or down as necessary.

 

Your area is not familiar to me, so I'm not aware of any big schools that could provide a complete course for someone who wants to get the most out of their dancing, for me, my teacher knew I was serious and knew that as I was in the top grade she offered that she simply couldn't provide all I wanted or needed, so she was very happy to facilitate other opportunities. Mostly this was writing letters to other teachers to say she was happy for me to take their class - in general respect between teachers means you get permission from the main teacher. So I took classes at Northern Ballet School (highly recommend something like this if you can find an equivalent) and I also took classes at other local schools that my teacher hooked me up with. I don't think I hit two (1.5hr) classes for 6 days a week which is roughly what full time students are doing and about the amount vocational school hopefuls are doing, but I was doing something 6 days a week, some days a double class other days not and I was also continuing tap and modern at the one class a week rate I was used to which was the right pace to have me finish all the possible exams in the syllabus we used, so that also equals less ballet, though a lot of ballet course will do something like modern or contemporary.

 

[Rein2019]

Thank you everyone for your advice. 

She does do other types of dance but her love of ballet is stronger. She probably dances for about 12 hours a week. So I know she would need to do more if she wanted to take it further.

 

I will keep looking for other schools that cater for her needs 😊 

[taxi4ballet]

If you are able to get up to London at half-term, then might I suggest that perhaps she does one of Anna Du Boisson's elementary/intermediate classes at Danceworks. I think they're normally in the afternoon, and she is a very good and experienced teacher of young dancers.

[Dance*is*life]

Sorry just wanted to get something straight - are you saying that she does 4 ballet classes a week plus other classes in different genres? At the beginning you mentioned 4 classes and in your last post 12 hours, so I'm a bit confused!   If she's 15 and wants to develop as a dancer,  she should at least have passed her Intermediate and be working on the Advanced levels.  It doesn't sound as if she's getting what she needs at her current school.  If you can find a school that can offer more intensive training within a reasonable driving distance, I think you should seriously think about transferring her.

[Rein2019]

Thank you. Danceworks looks perfect. Do you need to be a memeber to turn up to the lesson? 

[Rein2019]

1 minute ago, Dance*is*life said:

Sorry just wanted to get something straight - are you saying that she does 4 ballet classes a week plus other classes in different genres? At the beginning you mentioned 4 classes and in your last post 12 hours, so I'm a bit confused!   If she's 15 and wants to develop as a dancer,  she should at least have passed her Intermediate and be working on the Advanced levels.  It doesn't sound as if she's getting what she needs at her current school.  If you can find a school that can offer more intensive training within a reasonable driving distance, I think you should seriously think about transferring her.

Sorry. I have been vague as I did not know if her principle is on here. She does modern, acro, pointe and cecchetti. I know she needs to more if she wants to progress. She is disheartened as she feels the younger peers in her group are getting more attention as they have only just started! It does sound poor the more I start to delve in to it. Also with regards to going on pointe, can girls who have not been doing any form of ballet be put straight in to a pointe clas?? 

[Cara in NZ]

1 hour ago, Rein2019 said:

Also with regards to going on pointe, can girls who have not been doing any form of ballet be put straight in to a pointe clas?? 

 

GOODNESS ME, NO!!!! It takes several years of solid ballet grounding and developing strength to go en pointe. (I started as an adult, age 19, and was allowed to start pointe after three years of four classes a week. The teacher evaluated each person and told them whether they were strong enough to start pointe.)

Edited January 28, 2019 by Cara in NZ
Add info

[Rein2019]

8 hours ago, Cara in NZ said:

 

GOODNESS ME, NO!!!! It takes several years of solid ballet grounding and developing strength to go en pointe. (I started as an adult, age 19, and was allowed to start pointe after three years of four classes a week. The teacher evaluated each person and told them whether they were strong enough to start pointe.)

This is what I thought. This raises alarm bells for me even more. My daughter had to wait to go on pointe. But some new girls have started and been put on pointe and her understanding is that they have never done ballet before. 

I know this does not affect my daughter but it’s frustrating and keeps raising red flags about the school overall 😔

[Ruby Foo]

If you’re Dd’s teacher is a registered and qualified Cecchetti teacher ( which seems unlikely from what you have told us on this forum) then, for the safety of your Dd and for others you should probably notify Cecchetti board about what is taking place in the classes, and find a decent school pronto.

 

[Dancing unicorn]

I wish we had a grumpy face as well as a heart! As I didn’t ‘really’ like the post about Pointe if you get my meaning!!! Haha

It really annoys me teachers putting children en Pointe far too early/young and not enough training/strength 😡

[Pups_mum]

I think you need to find another school asap. It is just as important for recreational dancers to have safe and fulfilling lessons as it is for those who hope to dance professionally. It doesnt sound like this school ticks either of those boxes at the moment.

I know it can seem daunting to move and your daughter may well have friends she doesnt want to leave, but if she want to improve it sounds like a change is needed. Remember you are the paying customer. If you were paying for some other service and not getting what you needed I am sure you would change providers. Although leaving a dance school is without doubt more of an emotional drain than changing electricity suppliers, especially if you have been there a long time, the principle is the same really. Dont keep paying for something that doesnt meet your needs, and in fact sounds potentially damaging.

[Colman]

Yes, I'm afraid that's another school as soon as possible - it's not even a matter of looking for top-up classes or workshops, which it might be for a recreational dancer who wanted extra challenges if the school was otherwise satisfactory. Other kids complaining she's showing off for knowing what she's doing, mixed level classes, inappropriately putting people on pointe are all red flags. 

[taxi4ballet]

What you've already said doesn't inspire confidence in the school, and the bit about pointe is  - well, I'm appalled actually.

[Fiz]

It reminds me of seeing an overexcited teenager in a now defunct ballet shop buying a pair of pointe shoes. She’d been dancing for less than six months. The shop assistants were all rolling their eyes at each other and at some of the regulars in there but no one tried to stop her.

[Rein2019]

I have to be a bit defensive but only of the cecchetti teacher. They are separate and do not deal with pointe work or other areas of the school teachings. I’m confident in their ability because of their credentials. 😊

I have asked my daughter that she is sure the newer girls doing pointe have not done ballet before and she said yes and she can tell because of their techniques.

If this is the case I think I have an understanding as to why but that’s not for here! Though it’s another negative for me. 

I just feel so frustrated with it all and really wish I had the balls to bring it up with them. 

I have been in touch with Danceworks and a Vaganova teacher who have both offered either a trial or an assessment. 

Does anyone know how Danceworks works- I requested a trial and they have replied and said they will let us know at the end if she is accepted?? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Whats so conflicting for me is the length of time my daughter has danced there and they have been quite good up until I started to take a step back and delve deeper. I can hear the principles voice in my head slating me and my daughter to other parents with what ever we decide to do. And she will probably be little my daughter about her past faults and injuries. The reason I say this is because she said some things to me about another child who dances there and wasn’t particularly polite!! 

[Rein2019]

I also have to apologise for my spelling and grammar. I have a busy home and try to type quickly without being interrupted by twin boys 😊

[Jan McNulty]

I don't have any experience as a dancer or a dancing parent but everything on this thread indicates that you should persuade your daughter to move elsewhere.  Do not worry about what the head may say about you or your daughter behind your backs.  Your daughter's wellbeing is the most important thing here.  Look for somewhere that meets her aims better.

[Lisa O`Brien]

From what i've read on here your DD's current teacher sounds like a nightmare; even gossiping about other pupils behind their backs. Wow. Please move your daughter ASAP. ( My first dancing teacher in Manchester was like this).