The Royal Ballet: New Swan Lake Production, Summer 2018

[JonD]

Many thanks to everyone for the greetings and the comments on the lighting.  I think we can conclude that it was a Picturehouse problem; I've raised it with them and asked for an explanation (and a refund).  I'll let you know what transpires.

[Fiz]

Good luck, Jon!

[Rob S]

33 minutes ago, JonD said:

Many thanks to everyone for the greetings and the comments on the lighting.  I think we can conclude that it was a Picturehouse problem; I've raised it with them and asked for an explanation (and a refund).  I'll let you know what transpires.

 

Impress them in to giving you a refund by turning up with a small group of dancers in local dress 😀

Edited June 13, 2018 by Rob S

[MargaretN7]

11 hours ago, Petunia said:

 

 

How everybody interacted with each other, with Rothbart, Benno and Siegfried and the Queen was wonderfully thought out, never boring. I think this is something which makes the Royal Ballet very special: the lack of impassive onlookers in the “background” – something that infuriates me every time I have to witness it. Even in the glorious ballroom scene, during the pdd, everybody is attentive, so you never perceive the pdd as an isolated event (AKA gala piece but with a few background supernumeraries), as I’ve experienced it too many times.

 

Bravi for that.

 

 

I've sometimes been standing where, without stopping watching the Act 3 pas de deux I could also see Itzia Mendizabel as the Spanish Princess. If looks couild kill Odile wouldn't have survived to finish the act.

[cavycapers]

Wouldn't it be lovely if this first run is treated as an opportunity to make minor tweaks to the things we have all identified as problematic? (Seigfrieds dark costume for example, especially in act 4.   My friend and I thought he reminded us of those occasions in the theatre when a stage hand comes on all in black to move scenery etc unobtrusively, not that Marianela is scenery 😁 ...)  alas,  I think it probably won't happen,  and we will be stuck with the things that are already annoying us for the next twenty years 😟

[MRR]

5 hours ago, capybara said:

But there such a thing as 'upselling' which I tend to recoil against. The dancing of Acri, Dyer, Ella, Hay and Sambe has  resonated with me just fine too.

I agree with this and think Campbell hams up Benno to an extent where it clashes with Muntagirov's solemn Siegfried.  However, I appreciate the solidity of Campbell's technique; there isn't a moment where he is out of control.  The double tours down the diagonal were perfectly executed opening night with no slowing down of the tempo.

 

I did not see Dyer or Ella, but overall the standard of the Bennos was very high this run.  Hay and Sambe were my favorites, but Acri has a lot of potential.  The Royal looks to have one of its deepest rosters of male dancers in recent years, and that's before Corrales joins.  

[Lizbie1]

17 minutes ago, cavycapers said:

Wouldn't it be lovely if this first run is treated as an opportunity to make minor tweaks to the things we have all identified as problematic? (Seigfrieds dark costume for example, especially in act 4.   My friend and I thought he reminded us of those occasions in the theatre when a stage hand comes on all in black to move scenery etc unobtrusively, not that Marianela is scenery 😁 ...)  alas,  I think it probably won't happen,  and we will be stuck with the things that are already annoying us for the next twenty years 😟

 

But you can't choreograph or design a ballet by committee! Certainly there are things I'd like changed, but others would surely disagree about them, and vice versa. For example, I don't mind the dark tights, though I understand why others do. I think they look very handsome and haven't had trouble picking Siegfried's form out on any of my three visits to ROH (all from different angles), nor at the cinema. And other things that are exercising people on these boards won't matter a jot to the wider audience, such as Benno's "Nutcracker" costume - speaking of which wouldn't it be odd in this country of all places effectively to ringfence scarlet military costumes for one ballet?

 

For me, there is so much to love about this production that I'll happily put up with the bits I don't. Others disagree, of course, but you can't please everyone, and the audience reactions I've heard and seen have been overwhelmingly positive.

 

And if Liam Scarlett does tweak a few things (as I'm sure he will), who's to say that we'd be happy with his adjustments?

[Shya100]

8 minutes ago, MRR said:

I agree with this and think Campbell hams up Benno to an extent where it clashes with Muntagirov's solemn Siegfried.  However, I appreciate the solidity of Campbell's technique; there isn't a moment where he is out of control.  The double tours down the diagonal were perfectly executed opening night with no slowing down of the tempo.

 

I did not see Dyer or Ella, but overall the standard of the Bennos was very high this run.  Hay and Sambe were my favorites, but Acri has a lot of potential.  The Royal looks to have one of its deepest rosters of male dancers in recent years, and that's before Corrales joins.  

 

I think Campbell just needs to play the leads now. He is just at that stage. In Manon I could hear people talking about how the brother was a better dancer than the main guy. He was the brother. He is tending to focus attention on him. He has presence, talented, and no little chemistry with Hayward and seems a nice guy who is liked by all the ladies he dances with. Maybe time to let him just do princes role. Shocks me he was a fill in for injuries this year. If I were him I would be annoyed.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Shya100

[cavycapers]

20 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

But you can't choreograph or design a ballet by committee! Certainly there are things I'd like changed, but others would surely disagree about them, and vice versa. For example, I don't mind the dark tights, though I understand why others do. I think they look very handsome and haven't had trouble picking Siegfried's form out on any of my three visits to ROH (all from different angles), nor at the cinema. And other things that are exercising people on these boards won't matter a jot to the wider audience, such as Benno's "Nutcracker" costume - speaking of which wouldn't it be odd in this country of all places effectively to ringfence scarlet military costumes for one ballet?

 

For me, there is so much to love about this production that I'll happily put up with the bits I don't. Others disagree, of course, but you can't please everyone, and the audience reactions I've heard and seen have been overwhelmingly positive.

 

And if Liam Scarlett does tweak a few things (as I'm sure he will), who's to say that we'd be happy with his adjustments?

well that's me told then..... 

[thewinelake]

I thought I was being blind in seeing no reference (other than my own) to the excision of the Russian Dance. But then I wondered if this has never been in the RB version? Or maybe it was cut out because the Queen's dress would make it tricky! I understand that it was a later addition to the score (so arguably not authentic) - and seems to have a story all of its own...

[MRR]

The Russian Dance was not in the Dowell production, nor the production it replaced, IIRC.

[Lizbie1]

13 minutes ago, cavycapers said:

well that's me told then..... 

 

Sorry, got a bit over-exercised there

[bridiem]

32 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

But you can't choreograph or design a ballet by committee! Certainly there are things I'd like changed, but others would surely disagree about them, and vice versa. For example, I don't mind the dark tights, though I understand why others do. I think they look very handsome and haven't had trouble picking Siegfried's form out on any of my three visits to ROH (all from different angles), nor at the cinema. And other things that are exercising people on these boards won't matter a jot to the wider audience, such as Benno's "Nutcracker" costume - speaking of which wouldn't it be odd in this country of all places effectively to ringfence scarlet military costumes for one ballet?

 

For me, there is so much to love about this production that I'll happily put up with the bits I don't. Others disagree, of course, but you can't please everyone, and the audience reactions I've heard and seen have been overwhelmingly positive.

 

And if Liam Scarlett does tweak a few things (as I'm sure he will), who's to say that we'd be happy with his adjustments?

 

I think there was some speculation when next season's rep was announced that the reason SL wasn't on again could be because it would give time to review any changes that may be wanted (by the choreographer!) after the first run. I agree that any changes - if indeed there are any - would probably please some people and displease others. But hey, it would give hours of fun and a whole new thread!

[Lizbie1]

2 minutes ago, bridiem said:

 

I think there was some speculation when next season's rep was announced that the reason SL wasn't on again could be because it would give time to review any changes that may be wanted (by the choreographer!) after the first run. I agree that any changes - if indeed there are any - would probably please some people and displease others. But hey, it would give hours of fun and a whole new thread!

 

Quite - what else would we talk about?

[cavycapers]

If I were LS and discovered that the main thing that bothered most people was the colour of Siegfried 's tights and Benno's over prominence,  I'd be cheering to the skies! 

[Sim]

10 minutes ago, cavycapers said:

If I were LS and discovered that the main thing that bothered most people was the colour of Siegfried 's tights and Benno's over prominence,  I'd be cheering to the skies! 

Then there's the ending, of course, but I don't suppose that will be changed!

[aliceinwoolfland]

1 hour ago, Shya100 said:

 

I think Campbell just needs to play the leads now. He is just at that stage. In Manon I could hear people talking about how the brother was a better dancer than the main guy. He was the brother. He is tending to focus attention on him. He has presence, talented, and no little chemistry with Hayward and seems a nice guy who is liked by all the ladies he dances with. Maybe time to let him just do princes role. Shocks me he was a fill in for injuries this year. If I were him I would be annoyed.

I totally agree. The fact that as a Principal he was not (originally) cast as Albrecht, Des Grieux OR Siegfried seems completely bizarre. Give me him over Kish any day. 

[RuthE]

28 minutes ago, aliceinwoolfland said:

I totally agree. The fact that as a Principal he was not (originally) cast as Albrecht, Des Grieux OR Siegfried seems completely bizarre. Give me him over Kish any day. 

 

Agreed, but he and Kish are never going to be an either/or, given their respective heights. I assume that the reason he was passed over to replace McRae was that the company wanted to keep their chosen first-cast Benno, and to do both might have been a stretch.

[cavycapers]

But given the fact that the decision was made to make sure that one of each couple was an experienced hand,  wisely in my opinion,  who would you have partnered him with?  Kish may not have blown me away,  but I understood how important his steady partnering was with Nagdhi. 

Edited June 14, 2018 by cavycapers

[RuthE]

Is that addressed to aliceinwoolfland or to me?

[cavycapers]

Oh,  no one really.   I think I was musing to myself! 

[aliceinwoolfland]

6 hours ago, cavycapers said:

But given the fact that the decision was made to make sure that one of each couple was an experienced hand,  wisely in my opinion,  who would you have partnered him with?  Kish may not have blown me away,  but I understood how important his steady partnering was with Nagdhi. 

 

I think Campbell - or Ball - would have made a fine and steady partner for Naghdi. They’ve both proven themselves to be excellent and reliable. I think Kish didn’t do Naghdi justice at all. At Principal level I look for more than a steady partner. I didn’t see any chemistry with Naghdi and I was totally unmoved by him. He was also noticeably technically weaker than Muntagirov. Probably a controversial opinion but I wouldn’t have cast Kish at all as Siegfried - after all, Soares has also been left out. If Naghdi had to go with an experienced Siegfried I’d suggest Bonelli.

Edited June 14, 2018 by aliceinwoolfland

[Mary]

8 hours ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

Quite - what else would we talk about?

Changes did get made to Winter's Tale for its second run, some of which were keenly aired on this forum..

I think it highly likely Scarlett will want to make some changes. Judging from all the insights etc, he  obviously understands that he is part of a bigger whole, not just an individual talent..so he is  likely to listen to other views.  It would be absurd, come to think of it, to imagine  everything would be 100% perfect first time round.

[Xandra Newman]

55 minutes ago, aliceinwoolfland said:

 

I think Campbell - or Ball - would have made a fine and steady partner for Naghdi. They’ve both proven themselves to be excellent and reliable. I think Kish didn’t do Naghdi justice at all. At Principal level I look for more than a steady partner. I didn’t see any chemistry with Naghdi and I was totally unmoved by him. He was also noticeably technically weaker than Muntagirov. Probably a controversial opinion but I wouldn’t have cast Kish at all as Siegfried - after all, Soares has also been left out. If Naghdi had to go with an experienced Siegfried I’d suggest Bonelli.

 

Some very lucky ones WILL get to see Yasmine Naghdi in partnership with Frederico Bonelli next Monday.

 

I agree no chemistry radiated out from Kish and I assume that's just because of his personality. As others have remarked I'd love to see Naghdi dancing alongside Vadim Muntagirov one day soon as they are both such highly classical dancers, with a secure, clean and very steady technic and they both possess a beautiful classical line too.  

[bridiem]

7 hours ago, RuthE said:

 

Agreed, but he and Kish are never going to be an either/or, given their respective heights. I assume that the reason he was passed over to replace McRae was that the company wanted to keep their chosen first-cast Benno, and to do both might have been a stretch.

 

Given how well he managed Des Grieux and Lescaut, I think he would have coped. And in terms of experience, he's no longer a (very) young dancer and has proved himself to be very reliable in a wide range of roles, so I don't think matching him with a debutante O/O (if relevant) would really have been a problem.

[capybara]

1 hour ago, aliceinwoolfland said:

(Kish) was also noticeably technically weaker than Muntagirov. 

 

That's not difficult  !

 

1 hour ago, aliceinwoolfland said:

 Probably a controversial opinion but I wouldn’t have cast Kish at all as Siegfried - after all, Soares has also been left out. If Naghdi had to go with an experienced Siegfried I’d suggest Bonelli.

 

Others have agreed with you on here about Kish, alice, and Naghdi will be dancing with Bonelli in Madrid as well.

 

3 minutes ago, Xandra Newman said:

 

As others have remarked I'd love to see Naghdi dancing alongside Vadim Muntagirov one day soon as they are both such highly classical dancers, with a secure, clean and very steady technic and they both possess a beautiful classical line too.  

 

Agreed; agreed; agreed!

 

7 hours ago, RuthE said:

 

I assume that the reason he (Campbell) was passed over to replace McRae was that the company wanted to keep their chosen first-cast Benno, and to do both might have been a stretch.

 

If I 'assumed' anything about McRae's replacement it was that Bracewell was down to cover the role and had shown that he was totally worthy of being cast. And so it has proved to be. Clarke was another possible pick ahead of Campbell.

 

 

[capybara]

Of course, all this discussion serves to demonstrate how incredibly hard the job of a ballet company Director must be: managing dancers' expectations, taking account of choreographers' preferences, developing talent, considering 'best' pairings, accommodating injuries, giving appropriate opportunities to older dancers............the list goes on.

[Sim]

Just now, capybara said:

Of course, all this discussion serves to demonstrate how incredibly hard the job of a ballet company Director must be: managing dancers' expectations, taking account of choreographers' preferences, developing talent, considering 'best' pairings, accommodating injuries, giving appropriate opportunities to older dancers............the list goes on.

And let's not forget 'pleasing the audiences'......especially demanding ones like us!! 

[capybara]

4 minutes ago, Sim said:

And let's not forget 'pleasing the audiences'......especially demanding ones like us!! 

 

I know  - but I didn't want to put that because I thought: "How on earth would anyone please us in the light of the comments we have been making on this thread alone?"

[Sim]

Ha ha they can't....."you can't please all of the people all of the time" !!  I guess that's just a part of many people's jobs, especially ones where taste and aesthetics are concerned! 

 

But, thinking about it, I guess it's different degrees of being pleased.  I am very pleased with this new production, but that doesn't mean there aren't a few things I think could be changed in order to please me even more!  

[Petunia]

And in one of the interviews shown during the intermissions at the cinema, John Macfarlane said that when the team began to prepare SL, they started to collect everything they had hated about various Swanlakes they’d seen before. ☺️

[alison]

... but unfortunately they missed out on the bit about not being able to see Siegfried's legs against the floor ...

[alison]

9 hours ago, aliceinwoolfland said:

He was also noticeably technically weaker than Muntagirov.

 

Name me an RB Siegfried who isn't?

Edited June 14, 2018 by alison
Original correction didn't "take"