Anna C Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I know you're an adult Michelle, and more than capable of making your own decisions, but I wouldn't suggest that anyone keeps dancing through a back injury, particularly if a teacher has told you to stop. Also, Fiz is quite right, even adults should never take more than 2 x 500 mg of paracetamol at once (and never more than 8 paracetamols in 24 hours). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I agree about the paracetamol Michelle - do not take more than 2 x 500mg tablets in one go and definitely no more than 8 in 24 hours. And if you are in pain from a muscle or joint etc, ibuprofen would actually be better because of their anti-inflammatory action (you can alternate paracetamol with ibuprofen every 2 hours) - but as others have said, you really need to think carefully about whether you should be dancing at all with an injury. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 You are all right of course and I do appreciate your concern, I did in fact take 2 x 500mG then a further 2 x 500mg half an hour later, I did not do that lightly and yes there was some degree of risk attached to that, I was of the opinion that there would have been some degree of margin in the recommended dosage, so yes I did take a risk, but I was always a risk taker in my working life, and its always a question of judgement. I didn’t even know I could dance when I arrived at the class this morning, I had to abort both my gym and studio work beforehand, I couldn’t even do my favourite reverence piece (its different to that of the class). It was also dammed difficult putting my tights on, I really don’t do being poorly very well. In any case it was my own fault, just trying to beat time and the weather and getting my lawn done, when the mower got jammed up with cable BT left behind. At the ballet class this morning I played every bit by ear so to speak, I amazed myself that I got through it. JulieW: I will try the Ibuprofen, needless to say since those tabs this morning I haven’t taken any further medication, but if the ibuprofen is an anti inflammatory then it should help, but I’ve no more dancing now until Friday night. The injury it self is probably no more than a pulled muscle, unfortunately it does need time to heal. Thanks everyone I really mean it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 That's good Michelle. Sorry for sounding like a mother hen, I'm just aware that young dancers also read and post here and we have to be careful about what sort of example we set, particularly when it comes to medication and injuries. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 The body has two ways to stop us from further hurt: pain, and then if that doesn't work (we ignore it or over ride it with medication) - shut down by way of greater injury. One way or another the body will protect itself - it has spent eons of evolution doing that. We cannot over ride it as much as our hearts and minds want to. We have commitments. We don't want to be seen as cry babies or have our perseverance questioned. But sanity must prevail. I wish you well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 An overdose of paracetamol is extremely dangerous because it causes delayed damage to the liver(hepatotoxicity) which is only apparent 24+ hours after the overdose has been taken. By which time the damage is usually irreversible (and often fatal) - the antidote needs to be given within 8 to 12 hours i.e. before any symptoms appear. Taking paracetamol and ibuprofen together every 4-6 hours is considered to be more effective than alternating them every couple of hours. Ibuprofen has a recommended 4x400mg doses a day (unless on prescription when higher doses may be given for certain conditions) so for continual effect try to space them every 6 hours. Would also echo others views about the danger of continuing to dance through pain. Pain is the body's way of saying STOP and if you mask this signal and carry on the damage is likely to be greater and recovery time even longer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Look people, you are preaching to the converted, I actually agree with what you are saying, but sometimes in life its necessary to take things to the edge (with care, not negligently ). I was always one to go the extra mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 That's good Michelle. Sorry for sounding like a mother hen, I'm just aware that young dancers also read and post here and we have to be careful about what sort of example we set, particularly when it comes to medication and injuries. We are not the only ones reading this forum. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I tried to add the following to my post above but was not allowed so here it is: My information was not aimed at you Michelle but rather I felt compelled to provide the facts about paracetamol overdose as I knew someone who took a deliberate overdose believing they wished to end their life only to change their mind later when unfortunately despite the best medical efforts it was impossible to save them. This event happened over 20 years ago but the discussion brought all the memories back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Noted, I will add a little more care in my posting in future, I do understand what you are saying. Spooky I’m really sorry I brought back those type of memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 My 17 year old nurse best friend nursed a young man who took an accidental paracetamol overdose as he died. It took him three weeks to die, horribly and painfully. She had to watch, knowing what would happen. He did not want to die. It was pitiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Fiz, what a sad tale, and a cautionary one. Pain after injury is Mother Nature's way of telling us to stop what we are doing as the body needs to rest in order to heal. It seems to me that taking painkillers so you can carry on may only cause more damage and worsen the injury. Michelle, wishing you well, and hoping that you are soon fighting fit again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 You are all right of course and I do appreciate your concern, I did in fact take 2 x 500mG then a further 2 x 500mg half an hour later, I did not do that lightly and yes there was some degree of risk attached to that, I was of the opinion that there would have been some degree of margin in the recommended dosage, so yes I did take a risk, but I was always a risk taker in my working life, and its always a question of judgement. Sorry to have to do this, and I hope I don't offend you Michelle, but the more I think about this the more I feel I have to say something. I'm aghast and appalled at the possible suggestion that it is ok to increase the dose of any medication because there must be a safety margin built in to the dose. I myself have had a severe - albeit uncommon - reaction to a single codeine tablet taken on an empty stomach to help with raging toothache (that's was why I took it on an empty stomach) which rendered me unconcious and carted off in an abulance. If I had taken two tablets, I would not be here to tell the tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hi Taxi4Ballet: No I’m not offended at all, I’ve been around the block to many times for that. As I said in the quote you highlighted, I did not do it lightly, and generally I would rather suffer pain than take anything at all. I’m not trying to excuse myself but when push come to shove, then sometimes one has to think outside the box and way up the possible risks. At no point did I consider it was OK, also I know I was not allergic to paracetamol and probably do have a high tolerance towards it. Yes that is a sad tale Fiz, and an accident too, thats awful. Anyway today I have just taken a couple of ibuprofen first thing this morning, I am still very immobile which is getting me down. I’ve dropped my morning workout for the next few days, although I am going dancing tonight, I will not spend much time on the dance floor and will probably cancel sundays dancing in order to do Ballet on Monday,that is my only ballet class next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regattah Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Taxi, my youngest DD has a similar 'intolerance' of codeine. She was prescribed it as a painkiller whilst she was being brought round after one of her ops and what actually happened was that it kept her in a semi-unconscious state until she was taken off it. Michelle, why not just keep away from dancing completely until you're better? Everyone here, including incredibly experienced ballet teachers/dancers etc are telling you that you should. It is your choice to dance (your ballet classes at least); you have no obligation to do so. Your teacher is surely telling you the same thing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdance Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I believe that once again we need to reiterate the point that one must be careful with what is posted here, and the messages that are perhaps seen by young dancers who are maybe in a position that they have a slight injury or a niggle here and there. We must be responsible for the messages we send out. So many youngsters won't own up to pain because they don't want to have to rest (because they fear they will lose favour, miss out on training, etc) or worse still they may have a (terribly old fashioned and out of touch) teacher who will scold them for for admitting to pain, or imply some kind of emotional or physical weakness - I still vividly remember a tv documentary that I saw early in my career that enraged me: A 15 year old dancer being interviewed after her class, whilst taking off her pointe shoes, massaging swollen, misshapen and bleeding feet. The interviewer said to her "aren't you in pain?" and fighting back tears she said "of course. We are always in pain". The interviewer didn't seem to understand why she kept quiet about it and she said "It would be disrespectful to our teacher to say that we are in pain - everyone is in pain, it's part of what we do". Firstly - no-one should EVER think that dancing with an injury is acceptable! I am aware that it happens, for whatever reason or other, among professionals, but the chances are, that these days those professionals are also under the care of a physiotherapist who is monitoring them. I have made many posts on the dangers of dancing with injury on this forum so I won't go into detail again, but no young impressionable dancer reading the forum should be seeing anything that gives them any indication that it is even remotely ok. Secondly - analgesic/anti-inflammatory medication should only be taken to allow healing to take place. If taken to allow healing, then it should be logical to suggest that the dancer is also resting. Dancing or doing other physical activity is going to stop that healing, and probably aggravate the condition. Thirdly - the only people who know anything about dosages are healthcare professionals and pharmacists. As others have said, to mess with this is incredibly dangerous, and to post about it on a public forum, read by so many people, is frankly downright irresponsible. Sorry if this seems like I'm having a rant - I suppose I am - but I'm extremely passionate about the wellbeing of dancers, particularly youngsters who do read things and may be making decisions on what is right and wrong based on how others behave. I've been following this discussion for the past few days and I think that it has wavered a long way from our quest for adult ballet classes. Michelle, you have been given advice from many well-meaning folk on here. While whether you choose to follow it or not is entirely your prerogative, please consider who else might read your posts and the fact that they may follow your choices. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheila Beelam Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I too have been reading these posts and agree completely with DrDance I understand people take risks everyday in decisions they make and that these can be well thought out calculated risks but I cannot believe that partaking in a ballet class is worth any level of risk to one's health. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Well it seems everyone is after my hide: Firstly I went out this evening very upset as generally I agreed with what was being said about me, and yes I do agree with being careful at what is being read by the wider audience particularly the young dancers. However I am going to challenge to following points because I personally think there has been an overreaction containing both incorrect and spurious information: 1) Reaction to medication equal to or less that the prescribed dosage is irrelevant to this argument. 2) Attempted or successful suicide again is irrelevant 3) Accidental overdose is not relevant here. 4) My ballet teacher did not tell me to exit the class, she merely stopped me from doing the move which resulted in pain causing me to cry out, I continued with all the other exercises, but she did modify the centre work for the class to exclude sautés which was for my benefit. She was fully aware of my condition and I believe she took the appropriate action. 5) The word injury has been used a lot, unfortunately that covers a whole spectrum from minor wounds to broken bones or even worse, I think it conjures up exaggerated physical damage which was never the case. 6) Keep away from dancing completely until you're better, yes that does sound like common sence, however you body give you feedback as to what is happening. As it is I too 1 x 200mg ibuprofen first thing this morning and another about an hour afterwards as I have never taken these before, I honestly think they didn’t help. My decision then was to take nothing and listen to my body. Most of the day I was resting at home and very uncomfortable. About 4pm I had to go to the supermarket, that in itself eased things considerably. I went to my dance class (Salsa) tonight with the intention of light dancing, well that was not to be, however it has been very beneficial both from flexability and pain reduction. But I must note while dancing there is virtually no back bending which was the main site of the problem. Not wanting to push things too far I left at 10pm rather than my usual after midnight. Conclusion: There are some instances where resting is not the best solution, this was one of them. I Also agree that we have drifted off the topic of “Adult Ballet Classes” Edited October 19, 2012 by Michelle_Richer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) No problems with male dancers here,there are more than female!I love the fact that they are very fair and will dance with everybody weather old or young or good or bad.My husband can't dance but loves to come and watch me.I don't go to lessons any more but love going to the bars and dance,I'm the same,I dance all night non stop!The best part is that the bars are on the beach with the music and stars and nobody is embarrassed to dance.If you want a salsa dancing holiday this is definatly the place to come. I wonder which part of Turkey your in, I have spoken to my Salsa friend tonight and I now have an invite to Turkey, she it located at FєTHIYє. I hope I have the є symbol correct. Do you hapen to know the Salsa dancing venues close to this location. Sorry everyone for being off topic Edited October 19, 2012 by Michelle_Richer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheila Beelam Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Ah we spent our honeymoon there almost 20yrs ago - beautiful place - enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Back to Topic: ADULT BALLET CLASSES I would like to pose this specific question which is still in keeping with the thread. That is the availability of adult ballet summer schools and ballet workshops. The reason I ask this, is, I already attend a number of weekend dance workshops for other forms of dance. I am not sure if this type of thing exists for adult ballet dancers or not. I currently have 4 enquiries running for 2013, but have not had any responces yet. If no such venues exist, I wonder how many adult ballet dancers would be interested if one should become available?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomuchtallent Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Michelle- Fethiye is a fantastic place.There is a very large British expat community with lots of British businesses. Not sure about the dancing there but as I said Salsa is very popular.I live in Antalya which is 2 hours away.The people here are dance mad!most little girls do ballet,but not enough boys.We have Antalya state opera and ballet,not the best ballet but the musicians are world class.Lots of very good salsa dance schools and they are very busy.As I said before there is a very nice big mix of people who attend class and go to the salsa bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Awww tomuchtallent, it a pity you are so far away, OK about the British expat community in Fethiye, I know my friend has danced near her apartment, but I think it was a one off. She tells me the style is slightly different, according to her there is a little hip/belly wiggle which is not in our styles. Went out this morning and got a bit of pampering at the hairdressers only to find when I got back, a message on my answer machine that the lady I have been teaching Salsa has cry off going to the dance tonight. I guess she has lost her nerve, but I do hope she continues coming to me for her dance lessons and doesn’t feel too bad about things. I have a guy too from one of the other classes I help out with, I tried to get him to go, he said he would try, but I think he may turn out to be a no show too. I guess it is a bit of a psychological hurdle, going to your first dance thinking perhaps no one will dance with you, or you feel intimidated by dancers that dance really well. But I love to see them taking that first significant step on the dance floor and gain confidence, its really thrilling knowing I made that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Hi Taxi4Ballet: No I’m not offended at all, I’ve been around the block to many times for that. As I said in the quote you highlighted, I did not do it lightly, and generally I would rather suffer pain than take anything at all. I’m not trying to excuse myself but when push come to shove, then sometimes one has to think outside the box and way up the possible risks. At no point did I consider it was OK, also I know I was not allergic to paracetamol and probably do have a high tolerance towards it. I know I'm reverting away from the theme of this thread again, but I didn't say I had an allergic reaction to codeine. I had a sudden and catastrophic drop in blood pressure, together with supressed respiration compounded by a hitherto undiagnosed medical condition, causing unconsciousness. If I'd thought "Oh, it'll be ok, two tablets won't hurt" I would have been dead before the ambulance arrived. I'd had codeine before, and had no reason to suspect any problem. DrDance is right, only professionals in the field are qualified to recommend treatment. Incidentally, a friend of mine is a toxicologist of international standing and reputation and serves on the Government drug advisory panel. He also endorses this. You never know what the side-effects may be, even with seemingly innocuous over-the-counter medicines. I'll say it again: you should NEVER EVER exceed the stated dose, people die that way every day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Taxi4Ballet, I don’t wish to offend as I though we were all friends on this forum, but I don’t see any point in raking over old coals again. Firstly I never said YOU had an allergic reaction, I was talking generally regarding my tolerance. Secondly using you own words and criteria, if you had taken the codeine to maximum safe limits you would now be dead. Thirdly: I have come to no harm, and are clearly on the mend, but I’m not too proud to say it, possibly a little wiser from the advice from my friends here, so lets leave it at that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 At risk of reraking these coals - it is important to know that paracetemol lingers in the body for years. There was a lot of publicity some years ago when someone died after taking small doses of paracetemol over a long period of time. Similar care needs to be taken in the use of ibuprofen (and actually any other medications). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurora Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 In support of Michelle, though I don't condone what she did I don't think there's any need to go on about it any more. I'm sure she is regretful, if not that she did it then certainly that she mentioned it on here I actually mentioned this thread to a friend earlier who said she sometimes takes 3 paracetamol tablets in one go so perhaps it's not all that uncommon. Maybe the dangers need to be more prominent on the box (like on a cigarette packet!!). I did point out to my friend how potentially dangerous it was btw and suggested she read the thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 All I will add is this; that it's not just paracetamol that is dangerous. Dosage is on that box for a reason. I used to take more ibuprofen than advised, because two tablets didn't help my very severe period pain. I damaged my kidneys and have not been able to take ibruprofen for 20 years as a result. Even the most innocuous of over the counter medicines can cause severe and permanent damage if instructions are not followed to the letter. Having got that off my chest, I think Aurora is right - we have probably discussed the issue enough. :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomuchtallent Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Michelle- never seen any hip/belly wiggles here, apart from maybe me doing bachata!lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Thank you ladies, hopefully we can now put this to bed where it belongs. Michelle- never seen any hip/belly wiggles here, apart from maybe me doing bachata!lol I was doing Bachata tonight had a really great time although neither of my dance students turned up, which was a little disappointing, but there will be other occasions. Next weekend our dance has a Halloween theme, must get something for that. Love the doggie picture, that’s new, sadly I lost mine in June this year, he was a little King Charles Cavalier spaniel called Chino, he was just under 9. He really was my baby, he was the only thing that held me together when my partner died in 2005, I really miss Chino now, but still not ready for another just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (There's a few of us now with our dogs as avatars - there's a thread about dog showing in "Not dance" if anyone's interested) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 So - and this is really odd! - the show will be at the school where my daughters attended Stagecoach before they started separate drama and singing lessons and I will be dancing where they used to act - history repeating itself! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Best give the performance of your life then and become the ballerina you always hoped to be. Then you WILL make your mark in your own history, thats what memories are made of, so go for it. x 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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