Going Back to ballet continued...

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I think the big difference between the performing arts and sport such as swimming is that in the former you bare your soul. You don't necessarily want people seeing the process that leads up to a performance - you want the freedom to take risks, to go wrong without an audience.

 

I remember talking to a mum whose dd was trying a class for the first time. She wasn't impressed as she had. Een watching a jazz class of 9-10 year olds. It was the first day of term after a show and they were beginning new except uses for the very first time. Several had just moved up into that class from a lower level and were attempting more technically difficult stuff. Of course they didn't get it right but the teacher gave encouraging corrections. I saw the same class a couple of months later and they had really progressed

 

The mum told me how she wasn't going to enrol her dd as she thought the teaching wasn't good ( her dd was age 5 by the way) as she used to dance herself. She then glanced across at the next class and said this is quite good though( a more advanced group of 12-14 year olds) who were quizzing through a quick jazz warm up it was a warm up they had done many, many times before. They were performing in a local festival the following week so the teacher wanted to get on with polishing up their routine

 

I know which group of children learnt more in those classes.

[Jan McNulty]

PITF, I think your first sentence sums it up beautifully. Being a member of a couple of Friends organisations I am lucky to be able to watch classes and rehearsals. The dancers are always gracious and generous of their time but I do know that many of them feel that it is THEIR private time.

[hfbrew]

PITF, I think your first sentence sums it up beautifully. Being a member of a couple of Friends organisations I am lucky to be able to watch classes and rehearsals. The dancers are always gracious and generous of their time but I do know that many of them feel that it is THEIR private time.

You are so right Janet. i love watching company classes whatever the company but nonetheless they deserve prvacy. Students even more so. I actually think they'd prefer people actually watching class rather than by remote cctv. Afterall that is how they get used to an audience!

 

As for public swimming pools, well I am sure that swimmers are only too aware of the public nature of these places (I actually use ones that are not as exposed, my choice) . But lets face it, once a swimmer is in the water theres not much to see! And its their choice to use such places.

 

The only merit I can see with cctv for dance classes is if a teacher is on her own with a room full of students but I am very rarely in that situation. I absolutely agree that ultimately dance students should aim to appear publicly but this has to be done by being viewed at open days etc by real people not a camera! The vast majority of my students are just your average youngsters learning to dance and they need to be able to do so without fear of intrusion. Now I actually enjoy watching weeks and consider sharing students progress with parents an important part of my job. But I have met mums who do nothing but criticise their dcs on open days, openly telling them to get shoulders down, turn out more etc to the extent that I've had to gently remind them that I'm the teacher! I would hate it if these dcs had to put up with this every week because a parent was watching them in the waiting room.

Edited October 14, 2012 by hfbrew

[tomuchtallent]

I agree totally with what everyone has said.

The dance schools where I live all have CCTV and the children know and don't seem to have a problem.The only time it's switched off is when rehearsals or run up to exams are taking place.

I thought it very strange when I first saw the CCTV with all the same thoughts that everyone has mentioned.My dd always questions me and asks,"what was we doing today?"she loves me watching and gets upset if I don't!it is lovely though to see her dance and see the progression.

[hfbrew]

I agree totally with what everyone has said.

The dance schools where I live all have CCTV and the children know and don't seem to have a problem.The only time it's switched off is when rehearsals or run up to exams are taking place.

I thought it very strange when I first saw the CCTV with all the same thoughts that everyone has mentioned.My dd always questions me and asks,"what was we doing today?"she loves me watching and gets upset if I don't!it is lovely though to see her dance and see the progression.

Yes, and I know of a handful of students who would also do this. But you are talking about an environment that is only assessed by the ballet school.

 

There are very strict rules about use of cctv in the UK- users have to have a licence and there are thousands of dos and don'ts.

 

And I know for a fact that the vast majority of students value their privacy, and would be very unhappy if they felt that their dance lessons could be viewed in this way. My boys make absolutely sure all blinds are down for example. Its interesting that you say that the cctv is switched off for rehearsals or exams anyway, quite right too.

Edited October 14, 2012 by hfbrew

[Anna C]

My dd would HATE her classes being filmed and broadcast via CCTV. She doesn't mind me watching her private lessons, and she's used to the "watching week" at the end of term, but the rest of her classes are "her" thing, where she learns, focusses, makes mistakes, learns from them and tries again.

 

I find that teenagers especially are quite self conscious anyway, so the thought of being broadcast to the waiting room would be horrible.

 

Like Janet, we have been lucky enough to watch company class before, and felt very privileged to do so, as it did indeed seem almost like a private ritual.

[Michelle_Richer]

Well it seems from the majority of the comments that we are definitely not ready for culture change, basically because we have never done it before, but its OK for swimming pools because that’s what is expected.

There is still an assumption of a public audience out there looking in, rather than one or two mum’s in a secluded waiting area, remember what tomuchtallent said “she was the only mum”.

 

I’m also assuming, correct me if I’m wrong, that the majority of these DD’s go home after class as they are not residential, if so, do they practice at home and is mum likely to watch. I guess performance there is not perfect either.

 

I take the point about teenagers being self conscious, that’s not just limited to teenagers, I am teaching a lady privately at the moment to dance, she did not have the confidence even to attend a dance class with others, in 5 short weeks at two hours a week she will be attend her first real dance. I meet this all the time, even tonight I have been helping teach a guy in our beginners class who has attended the full course at least three times, mostly this is down to lack of confidence. So non of this is new or unique to a particular type of student, its inbuilt in the human psychy and ultimately you have to come out of your comfort zone to move on. So why not help prepare the way.

[Anjuli_Bai]

When I was teaching there were different rules for each venue. At the college anyone was able to watch - the doors were open to the campus. At the performing arts middle and high school the campus was closed except on special parent visitor days. In the several studios there were parent visitor days. At another venue - on a school campus but open to the public - people would watch and it didn't seem to bother anyone. The only place where parents watching proved a difficulty was at a competition studio where the mothers would berate their children after class and/or compare them. I had always liked an open atmosphere but after noting this behavior and the fear instilled in the children - I had to stipulate only certain days were viewing days.

 

For both children and adults I feel they have to be free to try and "fail" and try again without the thought of who is watching in the hall - or always wondering what mom or dad will think. I noticed that the children were always glancing toward their parents to see if they were watching. And, at times I did have parents signaling either satisfaction or frustration - neither of which is a good thing in the middle of class. At one point I actually had a mom walk into class and straighten out her daughter's arm - when in fact that straight arm was part of my lesson for the day. She thought the child was wrong. After that the door to the hall was closed much to my disappointment about wanting to keep an open environment.

 

I did video classes occasionally, and then invited the students to view the tapes - but it was for instructinal purposes. Most of the time I didn't have to point out errors - they could easily see them and it was an excellent lesson. However, these particular classes were composed of students who truly enjoyed one another and didn't view the tape as an occasion for comparison. What really surprised all of us (and made me extremely happy) was how much laughter there was in class. As one small girl announced to a newcomer - "we work hard - but we do have fun." That made my day - month - year!

 

As for being taped during my own class and/or rehearsal - I thought it an excellent teaching tool for myself - but that is a different concept than simply anyone able to watch in the lobby. If a performance was being taped - I loved it.

 

As for having CCTV streaming out to a waiting room - I'm not sure I like that because of the comparison/competition it might engender among the parents and the distraction for the child knowing mom/dad are watching. It does depend upon the general environment and the composition of the class.

 

Lots of times you have to go with the situation you find at hand.

[2dancersmum]

My DD briefly attended ballet classes at a school where there was a TV in the waiting area. The area had tables, chairs and machines to get tea, coffee, soft drinks, snacks etc and was open to the whole of the community centre, not just dancers parents. The TV showed classes in one studio only and was only ever on when the dance admin person was present. It was very difficult to recognise any of the dancers, even your own child as the camera was at an angle so mostly the class was viewed from the back and only part of the room could be seen on screen. None of the dancers, even the older teens and older teenage boys seemed to be bothered about it all and when you were in the waiting room you could see very few people did more than glance at the TV screen. The most interest it sparked was usually from little girls and boys who were visitng the centre for parties or martial arts, who wanted to know what the children were doing and if they could do it. I believe they had quite a few recruits that way.

[Anna C]

Well it seems from the majority of the comments that we are definitely not ready for culture change, basically because we have never done it before, but its OK for swimming pools because that’s what is expected.

There is still an assumption of a public audience out there looking in, rather than one or two mum’s in a secluded waiting area, remember what tomuchtallent said “she was the only mum”.

 

I’m also assuming, correct me if I’m wrong, that the majority of these DD’s go home after class as they are not residential, if so, do they practice at home and is mum likely to watch. I guess performance there is not perfect either.

 

I take the point about teenagers being self conscious, that’s not just limited to teenagers, I am teaching a lady privately at the moment to dance, she did not have the confidence even to attend a dance class with others, in 5 short weeks at two hours a week she will be attend her first real dance. I meet this all the time, even tonight I have been helping teach a guy in our beginners class who has attended the full course at least three times, mostly this is down to lack of confidence. So non of this is new or unique to a particular type of student, its inbuilt in the human psychy and ultimately you have to come out of your comfort zone to move on. So why not help prepare the way.

 

Perhaps it is a cultural thing, but I for one am happy only to watch when invited.

 

You cannot compare a class being recorded and broadcast to all and sundry with practicing at home in your bedroom where your mum might walk past.

 

I walk around my upstairs naked sometimes but it's not something I'd do in the local senior school.

[hfbrew]

Spanner, that has made me chuckle!!

 

Off to my nice private gym now- I personally go to the ones not on public view.

 

The safety of my students is paramount especially as most class sizes are small, a group of half a dozen students can be easily identified. Now I actually don' t mind parents taking the odd peep through the window and I have also made recruits this way from interested students attending the same venues for other activities. But there is a vast difference being able to see who is watching than not knowing who might be viewing on camera. And if students, like my boys are disturbed by onlookers, I draw the blinds- reluctantly but I have to respect their wishes. It does make watching weeks special though, I really enjoy showcasing them.

 

Ballet is a performing art. The skill of performing is learnt by communicating to a real audience that you can see- knowing you are being watched remotely is not the same at all.

[Anna C]

I absolutely agree. Putting on your makeup, costume, and "performance persona" is a whole process and is separate from the learning environment.

 

There is a parent in my dd's Associate class who coaches her daughter from the sidelines during watching week, even hissing instructions at her. The poor child looks unbelievably tense while this is happening, so I'm always pleased for her that it only happens once a term. No doubt if the child knew she was being watched via cctv she would be that tense all the time.

 

Anyway, we've gone off on a tangent again, from flooring to cctv!

[taxi4ballet]

 

One question I do have out of your responses, how well are these non purpose built establishments equipped:

 

Fixed and portable ballet barre’s.

Walled mirrors

Audio system.

Room / hall acoustics

Adequate flooring (material and size)

Exercise mats for floor work

 

 

I reckon that 90 per cent of dance schools have to contend with the following at their premises:

 

Barres - the backs of chairs lined up in a row, or possibly a couple of battered ones owned by the dance teacher, who has had to beg, borrow or steal a cupboard in the hall to store them in

 

Mirrors - none, not allowed to attach anything to the walls

 

Audio system - cd player brought by teacher to class as the sound system in the hall is owned by the drama group, nobody else is allowed to use it and they take the control panel away with them anyway

 

Acoustics - grim

 

Flooring - either covered in sand by playgroup, crumbs by senior citizens' coffee morning or polished to a mirror shine by an over-zealous caretaker who takes pride in being able to see his face in it

 

Mats - nowhere to store them, see 'barres'

 

Still, could be worse, there might be nowhere at all...!

[Michelle_Richer]

 

Anyway, we've gone off on a tangent again, from flooring to cctv!

 

Yes I agree, I guess I may as well bring it back to what Fiz started with her experience of her new dance class.

 

Well I also attended a new dance class for the first time last night, my second weekly class. However I had mixed feelings about it, the dance studio was excellent, with one wall fully mirrored, portable extendable Barre, large room with sprung vinyl dance floor, but not very slippy. Contrary to Taxi4Ballet experience.

 

According to their website and email exchanges, things were quite formal, however when I got there I was the only one in the stated appropriate wear (Black leotard, black chiffon wrap round skirt, pink tights and pink ballet slippers), also no jewellery was allowed, but at least one of the girls were wearing a necklace and the teacher too, including a watch.

 

The session was fun but not very demanding, it started at the barre doing brushes forward and back, I was told I need not keep my legs straight which has been instilled in me as second nature by my other ballet teacher, I just smiled and carried on. This class to was very young, I guess in there early twenties, 4 girls and me, I’m told when everyone is there its 8 girls and 1 guy. I did get to do the odd move that I had not done before, but what was disappointing, there was no short choreographed dance sequence, as with my other class. Never the less it was fun and still had something to contribute and hopefully won’t be too long before I go up a class there.

 

As for the teacher, I really liked her and we seemed to get on really well, as I did with the girls too.

[Fiz]

I am the only one that wears a leotard at my school and my hair tied back back, but my dance teacher does not mind. I wear a watch, as there is no clock in the room and stud earrings. This is very restrained as I wear five rings, a pendant or necklace, bracelet(s) watch and sometimes my cross under whatever else I have on as clothes!

[Michelle_Richer]

Hi Fiz: What I did find strange, these were questions I specifically ask the organisers and to some degree we had a bit of an argument about the jewellery, as from my experience with other dancing, the issue tends to be bracelets with sharp edges or even long finger nails.

 

Because I was a bit self conscious about the leotard, I put it on for my regular dance class as we usually wear legging and short tops, if it looked out of place I would rather friends told me, than strangers laugh at me, anyway my teacher had decided this week that everyone is to come in leotards, it will be a leotard day, I though that was wonderful support from her. Now I’m really comfortable in a leotard for any class, one of the ladies in my regular class said it made me look slimmer and suited me, so that was nice, she is definitely on my chrismas list.

 

As for having the hair ties back, yes that was one of their stipulations too, but they said a band would be adequate, I didn’t need to put it in a bun, so I just used a large hair slide to clamp it straight back, that did the trick and was quick.

 

The type of dances I go to Salsa, Bachata, Merengue, Club Cha cha and Kizomba, I wear alot of sparkley jewellery too, as these dances are hot and sexy.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Michelle_Richer

[Sheila Beelam]

Taxi4ballet there must be CCTV cameras in every place I've ever danced in the past 30years as you can obviously see them all - just as you described!

[tomuchtallent]

Michelle-

In turkey salsa bachata and merengue are very popular!we have fantasic teachers and schools and normally after class(which can be every day if you want)you can go to the local bars and practice all night!great atmosphere and they are really good.My very good friend is the Turkish champion and I'm not bad myself!!love it.

[hfbrew]

Just to say that I googled Royal Academy of Dance adult classes to get the education and training page on their pretty extensive programme for adults of all levels.

 

Too far for most people to attend on a regular basis I know but they do run a summer course in July. At the moment if you click on holiday courses you only get the information for this year but at least anyone interested for next year can get an idea of what it entails. There is a contact telephone number and e-mail address on there too. Sorry I don't know how to do links!

 

Stress that this is not a plug as I retired from teaching there some years ago (15 was enough!). But I remember someone asking earlier in the thread about whether there was a holiday course for adults so this might be of interest.

Edited October 17, 2012 by hfbrew

[taxi4ballet]

Taxi4ballet there must be CCTV cameras in every place I've ever danced in the past 30years as you can obviously see them all - just as you described!

 

Aha - my spies are everywhere!!

 

Actually, I've come to the conclusion that all village halls are essentially identical and are quite possibly run by the same person - here's the evidence:

 

There is only ever one key for the entire building (there used to be a spare, but Betty had it and she's moved to Eastbourne to live with her sister). The key has to be put back through the caretaker's letterbox when you've finished with it, except on Thursday evenings, when you give it to the drama group secretary.

 

The central heating is programmed to come on in mid-November and off again at Easter, irrespective of the prevailing weather conditions.

 

The windows are stuck shut in summer, and let in a freezing draught in the winter (but you're no allowed to touch them anyway, not since somebody left one open after the Jubilee disco in 1977).

 

There's a large, clean kitchen, with everything carefully locked away so you can't use it, all except for the under-sink cupboard which contains only a 10-gallon teapot and a green cup with dried-up black stuff in the bottom.

 

The decor is an eye-watering concoction of maroon woodwork, yellow walls, orange curtains and green lino (or any combination thereof).

 

A small cupboard contains a mop & bucket, several unwieldy brooms, a roll of chicken wire, a box of used Oasis and a red plastic dustpan minus brush.

 

Each thoughtfully-provided bin has a notice on the wall above it respectfully requesting that you don't actually use it, but must take all your rubbish home with you instead.

 

If there is a bar, it will be locked.

 

There's a large storeroom containing: about a hundred stacking chairs, 17 trestle tables (there should be 18 but nobody knows where the other one is), a heap of broken tricycles, a battered 1930's desk with all the drawers jammed shut, an empty filing cabinet property of the vicar with a teetering pile of Guinness ashtrays on top, and a giant cardboard crocodile belonging to the drama group who are keeping it in case they ever do Peter Pan again, because they can't get Geoff to make another one as he hasn't been seen at the drama group since his wife ran off with the plumber.

 

I rest my case!

[lisadebs]

taxi4ballet - this has made my morning

absolutely conclusive evidence !!!

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Brilliant.

[Michelle_Richer]

Michelle-

In turkey salsa bachata and merengue are very popular!we have fantasic teachers and schools and normally after class(which can be every day if you want)you can go to the local bars and practice all night!great atmosphere and they are really good.My very good friend is the Turkish champion and I'm not bad myself!!love it.

 

WOW you shouldn’t say things like that or you will find me on a flight out there, I was dancing with a lady last Sunday who had just arrived back from Turkey, she has a holiday apartment out there and spends a lot of time every summer out there. She was telling me about the late night salsa party’s.

I joined a master class once on the south coast here, which was just an off-chance thing. There we had two British Salsa champions, I met them again some month later at Saint Ives in Cambridgeshire, got a hug from them both when they first see me and when I left too, the guy “ah, you the one that likes to lead”, which is very true.

 

Sadly as a mature lady we don’t get asked to dance by the guys like the young pretty girls do, as a full on extrovert that does not sit well with me, so I soon learned to lead as well as follow. In any case there are usually more girls / ladies at dances and dance class than guy, so girl – girl dancing is very common. Last Friday I managed two dances in the same evening, I arrived at the second dance about 10.30pm, the venue was fairly full with low lighting, I see one table with people I knew but it was full, just went and said hello before I paid my entrance fee. Made my way over to an empty table near the bar, dropped my coat off, got a drink, took a couple sip’s, didn’t even sit down, collected a girl on the way and was on the dance floor with a minute or two of arriving, was on the dance floor most of the night. As one point I got an applause from the people on the table opposite where I was dancing, they were looking at me but I don’t exactly know why they were clapping.

 

That I could never do as a graceful lady waiting to be asked to dance. Generally I wait for a guy to ask me, I don’t usually ask them, but there are exception. So I will never grow old gracefully.

 

A few week ago, two ladies Mum and daughter, inadvertently paid me what I believe to be the best compliment I have ever had. The simply ask if I was going to the Dance at the White Hart Hotel, which I replied yes, they said “Good, then we will come too, because we know you will give everyone a turn”. I had never looked at it that way before, I know I always look out for newbie’s and take them on the dance floor, but I thought that comment was really sweet and wont forget for as long as I live.

 

I was to go to a Salsa dance class tonight, but pulling my back last Thursday is really starting to play up now. I’ve managed on paracetamol’s all week including my new Ballet class, but its really bad now, so I think I must give it a miss even though the class is struggling for numbers and I do feel guilty about letting them down. I just hope it good enough for Ballet tomorrow, as that is the last one before the two week half term break, also it our leotard day according to our teacher, as a result of me going in a leotard last week, so I’m duty bound even if I have to crawl there.

 

Hfbrew: Thanks for the RAD summer school info, I will check it out

[tomuchtallent]

No problems with male dancers here,there are more than female!I love the fact that they are very fair and will dance with everybody weather old or young or good or bad.My husband can't dance but loves to come and watch me.I don't go to lessons any more but love going to the bars and dance,I'm the same,I dance all night non stop!The best part is that the bars are on the beach with the music and stars and nobody is embarrassed to dance.If you want a salsa dancing holiday this is definatly the place to come.

[tomuchtallent]

Michelle-

Also Iove doing group mareange!everybody gets up and we have such a great time!

[2dancersmum]

Michelle - I was told that Bodyworks in Cambridge also usually run an adult ballet school, although I don't actually know anyone who has been to it. Useless at putting in links but if you google them you should find information, even if its for the summer just gone it would give you an idea.

[Michelle_Richer]

WOW tomuchtallent that really does sound fantastic. I don’t know why but over here, I think the guy are just too shy, dancing is not seen as a macho thing. About 4 or 5 years ago, I used to teach Salsa two lunch times a week at work, I did that for two years running, the money we made went to the companies charity. That was the same, could never get enough guys, but plenty of girls. One thing I can say, every senior lady within that company has learned to dance by me. It was real fun.

 

OK about not needing to go to dance classes anymore, that’s fine if you are a follower, but as a lead, there are always far more moves than you can remember, many don’t even have names. I have a repateur bigger than most and carry a list of them. If I don’t refresh them regularly I loose them or bits and pieces of them as I loose the muscle memory. If I dance as a follower the perspective is completely different, I don’t even recognise the move but just follow where the guy leads me.

 

I wonder what style of salsa you dance; Cuban, NY, LA or do you have your own unique style in Turkey. Last March I was in India for my company, I found a Salsa class but unfortunately I didn’t get a chance to go, as when I returned to the hotel in the evenings, I was working on procedures and documentation until after midnight, it was no holiday, but I would have loved to get a bit of Indian influence into my dance.

 

You mentioned group merengue, I don’t understand that, we dance merengue as a fun partner dance as its so easy to do with 1-2,1-2 beat and there does not need to be any coordination of the hands with feet either. It nice to take someone on the dance floor that has never danced before and dance merengue, it really does light up there face, I love it. Salsa is danced as a group dance in the form of Ruada, not sure if you dance that there but that’s generally from Cuban style.

 

 

 

Michelle - I was told that Bodyworks in Cambridge also usually run an adult ballet school, although I don't actually know anyone who has been to it. Useless at putting in links but if you google them you should find information, even if its for the summer just gone it would give you an idea.

 

Thanks for the Info, I will drop them an email tonight.

[Sheila Beelam]

Taxi4ballet I laughed out loud at that wonderful post, thank you

[Fiz]

I had a really good lesson tonight. 45 minutes barre and 15 minutes show dance, thank goodness! I feel like I worked tonight

[Michelle_Richer]

Excellent Fiz, but it does seem a bit unbalanced though, with lots of work at the Barre, I take it that your show work is also centre work, is any of that prep yet for the show in February?

 

My back is a bit better, I hope it hold out for tomorrow morning ballet class and not too many jumps, cancelled my dancing tonight and a conference this afternoon.

[Fiz]

Oh, we did some centre practice too, Michelle

[Michelle_Richer]

Hi Fiz, I managed to survive my ballet class today but that’s was an achievement in itself. I was in severe pain in my lower back although I had rubbed in a good dollop of Biofreeze and taken 4 paracetamol’s (4 x 500mg). I think it was the fact it was to a leotard day as a result of me going in one last week, I was duty bound. As it was only Nicky our teacher and myself turned up in leotards, must be shy girls.

 

I told Nicky about my back problem and said I would try to do the work at the barre but it was unlikely I could go any further. In the end, despite the pain I managed to do everything except the repetitive rises from fifth, that really hit me in the back and Nicky stopped me.

 

I know my performance was along way below par, but for today I was just happy to get through everything. Overall I am so so annoyed with myself at straining my back with a lawn mower last week, I should have known better, let hope I have at least learned that lesson, Grrrrr.

 

Next class monday, but thursdays class has two week half term break, but I have plenty of homework, back permitting.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Michelle_Richer

[Fiz]

Well done, only please don't over do the paracetamol - it is so dangerous that it would not be licensed if it came out today, a chemist told me. Never take more than 1,000 mg, please, Michelle