New pointe shoe woes

[Viv]

Normally I wear grishko nova pointe shoes, and while they're very supportive they look rubbish on my feet. In the search for a prettier, softer shoe, I bought a brand new pair of Mirella Whisper pointe shoes. In the shop they looked gorgeous on, I had no trouble getting over them (which is rare for my flat feet) and I was super excited to dance in them. Fast forward to today, where 5 minutes into class I am in agony and about ready to throw these shoes against the wall! Rises were alright to start with but once we got to releves I felt like I was putting all my weight straight on my big toe and toenail (on both feet), it was excruciating and I couldn't attempt anything in the centre.

 

These shoes have a gel 'cushion' thing that I'm thinking, far from cushioning things, is actually causing more problems. It's a curved pillow and I think it is digging into the toe under the nail and the curve is pushing my toe out of alignment. I'm thinking of removing the gel cushion entirely, though this will make the shoe bigger. I was thinking maybe padding with lambswool might help? My teacher says the shoes don't look too wide, though this happened last time with bloch european balance shoes and both my toenails cracked and fell off.

 

I just dropped £75 on these shoes and while I don't want to see this go to waste, I also want to keep my toenails...has anyone else had this problem before with shoes like the mirella or euro balance? Are there any DIY fixes I can try before packing it in? Obviously I've sewed ribbons on and danced in them so there's no chance of taking them back.

[Canary]

Just an idea try an lambswool ouch pouch plus lambswool in these shoes and get a new pair that you can use and keep them as back ups. As Time goes on you will probably use softer shoes for certain solos when you want to be quiet, medium for class and hard when there’s a solo with lots of hops on pointe. So you have different shoes for different needs. 

[sophie_rebecca]

It sounds like you're sinking into the shoe as it's slightly too wide, a pro pad (https://www.capezio.com/pro-pad) may give you enough width to stop you slipping in as much, the tiny built in toe pad at the end if removed may just make it worse as you sink to the end with no padding, failing that if you've got a gap between your big toe & 2nd toe then try toe spacers (https://www.capezioeurope.com/space-pack?gclid=CjwKCAjw8r_XBRBkEiwAjWGLlFAEUJtdaLc11Q6OsSvts44RKj4iKZbd_uaEFYBp1h2qTukYYE-58hoC-OkQAvD_BwE the larger one in that pic) 

These are just attempts to fix a shoe that's not fitting you well & just may be enough to get you through to the next pair & get some usage, take care though as that pain will turn to bruising & you may lose the toenails again

If you get chance in go back to the shop & see if they have the same shoe in a width down & see how that feels, in a wide 2nd deep plie you shouldn't be able to feel much pressure on the end of the toe (it certainly shouldn't be painful) & if you put one foot en pointe with a little weight you shouldn't feel any sinking.

 

Good luck & fingers crossed.

[Viv]

It doesn't feel like I'm sinking, but I must be to be having these issues. I tried the next width down but the shank was twisting which made it seem like that shoe was too narrow. It's very frustrating because I went through all this with my first pair of shoes and don't want to have to do it all again. In my first pair I was wearing three toespacers and shoving cotton wool into the shoe to take up space, just so I could wear them for 3 pointe exercises in intermediate foundation. It was a nightmare but one I thought was behind me  

 

If I remove the cushion at the end I will definitely have to supplement with something else to try and build up that space, I'm just not sure what yet...a previous fitter has also advised me that if a shoe is slightly too wide but you want to get some use out of it, line the bottom of the shoe with a pantyliner! It'll take up a little bit more space and hopefully stop you sliding, and it can be taken out and replaced relatively often. 

 

I don't have a gap between my toes but my toes are hypermobile and quite easy to bend in funny directions... I think the cushion is pushing the top joint of my big toe sideways so the corner of the nail is trapped between the curved cushion and the actual platform.

[Pups_mum]

I've never bought a pair of pointe shoes (well, not for myself) so no specific knowledge, but I am the owner of a very strange pair of feet so I can empathise with your difficulty. I've got very small feet (size 1.5 UK sizing) that are quite wide in the forefoot but narrow at the heel, with stupidly high arches and I over pronate quite badly too. Getting regular shoes is a nightmare.  Sports shoes are dreadful too, as obviously most people with my size feet weigh about 30kg and don't put the same kind of loads through their running shoes etc as a grown woman does. It's a good job I've never danced really!

But anyway, I've got a lot of experience of dealing with shoes that don't really fit me, and have spent a lot of money, plus literally spilt  blood, sweat and tears trying various gadgets and methods of making badly fitting shoes wearable. Sadly, I've found that mostly they don't work, and certainly if I have to put more than one thing inside a shoe I know they are never going to be comfortable.

I know it's a bit different with pointe shoes as lots of people need accessories to help with fit, but I do think that if you are having to try lots of things to make a pair even bearable to wear it's sometimes best to admit defeat and get another type, even if they don't look quite as nice. 

I would love to be able to wear pretty shoes so I can understand the quest for the most flattering pointe shoes. I hope you can sort it out, but don't risk damaging your feet - I know I have come close to doing so on occasion in the past.

 

[Viv]

I had a very odd situation last night. I stuffed my feet with chux kitchen cloths to make the shoes fit, managed to make it all the way through a 45 minute pointe class without too much pain until the end, and managed to do things en pointe I've never been able to do before. I could feel muscles engaging that normally don't work because the foot can't get fully pointed in my other, harder shoes. Then I took off the shoes and I have cracked the top corner of my nail off 😶 It's not actually that painful and I think it's because, when I'm sinking into the shoe, the top joint of my big toe gets pushed out of alignment and I end up dancing on the corner of my nail. I'm going to try toe spacers to try and correct this alignment issue, even if I don't need them in my grishkos, and persist with these shoes for one more class. I want to try and decide if it's worthwhile getting this shoe again in the next width down. Even with a cracked toenail, this was my most successful pointe class ever and my teacher called it a 'breakthrough'. Very mixed emotions here!

 

Which brings me to my next question - how do you tell if the problem is width, and can be fixed by going down a size, or an issue with the actual shape of the box (too square) which obviously can't be fixed? My feet look quite square when I'm standing normally, but en pointe they compress and become quite tapered. I'm worried that these otherwise good shoes will end up being too square for me no matter what I do  

Edited May 11, 2018 by Viv

[sophie_rebecca]

8 hours ago, Viv said:

Which brings me to my next question - how do you tell if the problem is width, and can be fixed by going down a size, or an issue with the actual shape of the box (too square) which obviously can't be fixed? My feet look quite square when I'm standing normally, but en pointe they compress and become quite tapered. I'm worried that these otherwise good shoes will end up being too square for me no matter what I do  

 

Shoes are generally made for a shape foot as I'm sure you know, Nova's & 2007's are for a tapered foot so if you've more of a square foot in Grishko this is the Triumph / Super Triumph / Fouette in Block you're looking at a European Balance.

The only real way is to try the shoes at a shop with a good selection & a trained/experienced fitter, if you're able to put lots of padding in the shoe in the first place & it feels better then it does sound too wide, have you seen the 1/2 size changers? https://www.justballet.co.uk/products/tendu-size-changer?variant=20979587399 I'm not sure if they're available in Aus but if you suspect you're between widths it's what these were designed for.

 

A very brief outline of how I fit (& was trained to fit) pointe shoes.

Initial observation is the shape of the foot, street shoe size & any toe spaces, for first fits I'll generally fit with a pro pad (padded on top thin on bottom)

 

I'll select a mix of shoes that should work for the shape foot & start with the widest / longest pair,

 

with each pair on the dancer stands in a wide 2nd & takes a deep demi plie, I ask if they can feel the end of the box & if so how much pressure it is, if it's painful it's likely the shoes are too short, I check the heel for slack to see if it's too lose (shoe too long) or too tight (shoe too short)

 

If the shoes seem good the dancer is asked to sit on the chair with feet en-point (like how Coppelia sits) & gently shift some of their weight into the shoes by lifting their bum off the seat with their arms, again I'm asking for feedback like does it hurt, can you feel them sinking into the shoe, if they're sinking then they're too wide & we start again with the next pair, if all is good I'll look at the shank to make sure it's not twisted, as you've said above a twisted shank can indicate a shoe that is either too wide or too narrow but if it's not supporting the foot the shoe is discarded,

 

If the shoes have made it this far it's over to the barre, one foot flat one on pointe & press down into the shoe, again feeling for any sinking, swapping feet as often feet are different (length & width) if we're still good here then it's up onto pointe supported by the barre, again checking feedback for pain / pressure & checking the shank for any twisting & seeing how the shank moulds into the arch, sometimes a shoe can be perfect but the shank doesn't follow the curve of the arch & a slight adjustment of the shank here is all that's needed.

 

A precursor to any fitting is that toenails are neatly trimmed at least 24h prior to fitting, you shouldn't have too much of the tip but you also don't want them cut right back as both can cause issues,  it's hard to explain it on the internet but they need to be neat / flush.

If your feet are square in a tapered box you will be getting squeezed in causing the outer edge of the toenail to come under quite a bit of pressure & this will be painful, are other toes being forced under eath other? the little toe will probably also be having a hard time, if that's just the shape of your toe & proximity of the toenail to the edge of the toe then clear stretch tips can be a lifesaver (I use these as my toenail is slightly ingrown & almost all the way to the edge) http://uk.blochworld.com/product/A919 

Sorry for the huge post but it's hard over the internet to answer this as fitting is almost a black art but I hope the info helps you with your struggle, as to the question of how do you tell if its the shape of the shoe or width shank twisting is a good indicator but it won't necessarily show so the best thing is to try lots of shoes, I think we currently stock 300-400 different shoe's at the moment, it's rare for us not to find a good shoe for someone but sadly we're a bit far from you (Yorkshire UK)

Fingers crossed

Soph x

[Pixiewoo]

Wow!  Sophie, That's really helpful. Thank you. 

DD isn't in Pointe shoes yet... teacher said she didn't think it would be too long! 

And although we'll go to a fitter etc, I like to know HOW they should fit and now I feel as if I have some understanding. Are you able to say where you fit shoes? Or PM me, as we're in Yorkshire and will have to travel an hour or so at least to get shoes! Thanks x

[Viv]

Unfortunately these felt right in the shop, and it went exactly as you described, toenails trimmed, not uncomfortable standing at the barre, flat or en pointe or even doing courus. I don't fault the fitter so much as thinking that the the slight widening caused by rises was enough for my foot to start sinking  I had never seen the size changers though, they look great! If I can't find them in Aus, I may need to order from Just Ballet and hope it helps in this instance. I wish I was in the UK so I could visit you or some of the fabulous fitters described on this site! I did see that Gaynor do a 'fitting kit' with box liners which was tempting to me but not sold locally. There is also an Australian company called En Pointe Orthotics which I'm wary of, but would be interested in trialling, if they weren't once again on the wrong side of the country!

 

If it does end up being the shape rather than the width, I think I may end up in a bit of a 'fool me twice, shame on me' situation as I really do think I want to try them in X width haha. Though as I couldn't even wear flat shoes today because of pressure on the toenail, I have almost certainly bruised them and perhaps should give up now.

[RhodaKuc]

On ‎11‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 01:23, Viv said:

Which brings me to my next question - how do you tell if the problem is width, and can be fixed by going down a size, or an issue with the actual shape of the box (too square) which obviously can't be fixed? My feet look quite square when I'm standing normally, but en pointe they compress and become quite tapered. I'm worried that these otherwise good shoes will end up being too square for me no matter what I do  

Hello,

I have a similar problem with my feet - fitters always look to put me in a wider shoe as my foot looks wide across the metatarsals, but I sink in as my feet get slimmer en pointe!

e.g. fitter suggests Grishko 2007 Pro in 3.5, XX. I feel happier in a 4, X.  Admittedly, there can be a little shank twist to start but once I am in them and soften the box a little the shoe fits perfectly - no sinking in. (I also like the Bloch Axis TMT but do have a 3.5, X in these - I like the curved last shape and lower profile box).

[balletbean]

On 11/05/2018 at 16:09, Viv said:

Unfortunately these felt right in the shop, and it went exactly as you described, toenails trimmed, not uncomfortable standing at the barre, flat or en pointe or even doing courus. I don't fault the fitter so much as thinking that the the slight widening caused by rises was enough for my foot to start sinking  I had never seen the size changers though, they look great! If I can't find them in Aus, I may need to order from Just Ballet and hope it helps in this instance. I wish I was in the UK so I could visit you or some of the fabulous fitters described on this site! I did see that Gaynor do a 'fitting kit' with box liners which was tempting to me but not sold locally. There is also an Australian company called En Pointe Orthotics which I'm wary of, but would be interested in trialling, if they weren't once again on the wrong side of the country!

 

If it does end up being the shape rather than the width, I think I may end up in a bit of a 'fool me twice, shame on me' situation as I really do think I want to try them in X width haha. Though as I couldn't even wear flat shoes today because of pressure on the toenail, I have almost certainly bruised them and perhaps should give up now.

Don’t forget the time of day can affect shoe fitting. Be it Pointe or Street shoes as we all know 😉.  If you’ve been walking around all day, it’s a cold/hot day. Even to the extent that feet can retain fluid and appear slightly swollen (not to the naked eye but we know) at certain times of the month. It’s knowing what’s best for you and your body to realise when is the right time to shop for shoes of any kind. Pointe shoes are just less forgiving than others. 

[Viv]

I've just had my attention called back to this thread, and I thought I'd give an update in case future people are having the same issues.

 

I ended up pulling out the gel cushion, stuffing the shoes with kitchen towels and chemist bought toe spacers, and got through a month in them before I had to give up. I took them back to the fitter who very politely and firmly ripped into me for a whole variety of sins...the toe spacers I bought were too thin so weren't doing anything. By wearing the shoes I widened the box slightly, and then when I pulled the gel cushion out (even after padding with a flatter sponge) the widest part of my foot was now lower in the shoe, so I widened it lower down as well. The whole shoe ended up being closer to a XXX then an XX.

 

We also realised that because my feet are so compressible (the fitter was shocked because they basically end up half the width when squished) and my toes are hypermobile, all of my toes were being pushed in towards the midline. She gave me a special, wider toe spacer which made a big difference.

 

I also went down a width. Originally the fitter said they were certainly too narrow and refused to sell them to me, the top of my foot was sort of pillowing out of the top and they look too small when my foot is flat. She made me stand in the shoes while she taught me all about the things you should never do to make your shoes fit and how I could have broken my toes, etc etc, to see if my feet went numb from too small shoes. Compared to grishkos they are anything but too tight.

 

I have also been working hard with my teachers on pulling up and out of the shoes. In combination with the toe spacers and the slightly narrower shoe, I get far less toe pain and my pointe work has improved dramatically. I suppose my advice is, trust your judgment, know your feet, but also talk to your fitters if you take them home and they're not quite right. If I'd done that before wrecking my wider shoes, I may have saved myself a lot of hassle...

[EverHopeful]

I once had a pair of pointe shoes that I hated with a passion. They felt so perfect in the shop and in my first class in them. But I quickly realised they were completely wrong for me. I tried various padding, varing tightness of the drawstring but I just could not dance in them. I soon gave up and reverted to my previous brand and what a difference it made. 

I wouldn’t have thought to go back to the fitter about the ones I was struggling with. Maybe that’s a consideration for future.