Is it a week until your dd/ds start vocational school

[tutoo2much]

May be I am naive but I am struggling with the idea of 16 year old ballet students, drinking and smoking to such an extent that anyone who doesn't feels excluded socially.

[2dancersmum]

I am sure she will soon meet and make friends with others on her course that she feels more comfortable with. It is early days yet and she is still finding her feet. I am sure that this group who have been drinking and smoking are in the minority. I should say that the girls from her house are 16 but the partying has been at a house of older students and it is there she has been made to feel uncomfortable. I am hoping that as term gets underway everything settles down - certainly the girls stayed in for the 1st time last night!

[robin64]

As some of the students are under 18 I would be tempted to mention the drinking and smoking to the school. I bet the parents of those girls would not be that happy. Time for a stern chat from staff if you ask me. Obviously you don't want any come back on your DD for "telling" so there is no need for the school to say how they know but that they do know what has been going on. Perhaps they have just been a bit wild on getting some freedom but there should be some monitoring if you ask me.

[balletla]

Unfortunately, I think drinking and smoking is the norm. All my dd's friends started drinking/smoking at 14 and this was across several secondary schools (all full of kids from 'nice' areas). She just focuses on her ballet and treads a fine line between it all, but there is no doubt it is difficult, although her ballet commitments are seen as a credible reason for not attending parties/drinking/smoking by her group of cool friends.

However, she is friends with some vocational school girls who, whilst good as gold during term time, are also starting to go to parties and drink/smoke during the holidays. I am sure that this will be a bigger problem in sixth form as they have a lot of freedom and many are away from home for the first time. It's a sign of the times unfortunately and very rare to be a teenager that doesn't drink these days.

[Anjuli_Bai]

I am one of those people who has never wanted to drink alcohol. It's not a moral issue...I just don't like the smell or taste of it. I like grapes right off the vine

 

However, all my life this has given me problems in a social setting. People tend to associate drinking with conviviality and/or having a good time. Some also see it (no matter how clear I try to make it that I just don't like the taste) as a moral condemnation or that I "really" don't like them, or don't want to be friendly, or when everyone is drinking a toast and I am drinking my toast in water/juice/tea/whatever - then it doesn't "count."

 

Fitting in is not just a problem amongst the young.

[spooky]

I very rarely drink alcohol because I don't like the effects but because my husband doesn't drive this is my usual 'excuse' which is always accepted without question. If not driving I have found that a glass of water with ice and lemon rarely gets commented on as most people assume it is vodka or g&t!

[taxi4ballet]

Much the same here, Spooky, I drink tonic with ice and lemon and no-one bats an eyelid...

 

I don't drink because I've got some kind of food intolerance to alcohol, but people started giving me funny looks when I said I didn't drink for medical reasons, as they seemed to think I was some kind of reformed alcoholic and wasn't allowed to touch the stuff.

 

Now I just say I'm allergic to alcohol and I get loads of sympathy from everybody instead!

[robin64]

I really don't have a problem with drinking as such and at 16+(hopefully not 14+ but seems more likely than I thought) teenagers will try things. These girls are away from home so the school has some duty to keep an eye on them. It's not just the drinking and whether they feel ill but the possible difficulties a girl can find herself in under the influence. Also the girls at vocational school have worked hard and won places others would have loved to get. It is a shame if they don't grab the opportunity they have got. I am certain you would not catch elite young athletes smoking either. As I said hopefully it is a not going to be an ongoing thing and there won't be pressure for others to do the same to fit in.

[Pups_mum]

I really don't have a problem with drinking as such and at 16+(hopefully not 14+ but seems more likely than I thought) teenagers will try things. These girls are away from home so the school has some duty to keep an eye on them. It's not just the drinking and whether they feel ill but the possible difficulties a girl can find herself in under the influence. Also the girls at vocational school have worked hard and won places others would have loved to get. It is a shame if they don't grab the opportunity they have got. I am certain you would not catch elite young athletes smoking either. As I said hopefully it is a not going to be an ongoing thing and there won't be pressure for others to do the same to fit in.

Yes, I agree. Nobody expects all teenagers to be saints but I was still rather taken aback to read it. My DD is in year 10 at a state school with a very good reputation but I know from what she tells me that a fair number of her peers drink and smoke and it's much the same in other local schools.DD has always been pretty good at resisting peer pressure thank goodness and she says that a lot of that comes from her dancing. She understands that in order to be able to dance well she needs to take care of her body and she knows that cigarettes and alcohol are not the way to do that. She doesn't even aspire to be a professional dancer but dance is still more important to her than anything else. I guess I'd assumed that children at vocational school who are hoping for professional careers would feel the same as my DD only more so, if you know what I mean. Perhaps I'm being too harsh, they are still just kids, but I am shocked that the schools aren't tougher on this sort of thing. When I read of the sacrifices that so many parents on here have made to send their children to vocational schools it makes me angry on their behalf that situations like 2dancersmum describes are happening.

[drdance]

Unfortunately a lot of dancers still smoke because of the appetite supressant nature of nicotine.

 

I personally think that 16 is an awfully young age to be living in a house with other young dancers and to have to look after yourself as an adult, and to have all of that responsibility and freedom - any youngster would find it tempting to 'enjoy' this freedom, but I think with ballet dancers in particular, it goes a little bit further - there is a certain viewpoint among psychologists/sociologists that dancers, particularly those who have been away at vocational school from a young age, have a very different idea of socialisation and are almost institutionalised in their maturity and development. For these young people, the freedom that is suddenly put at their feet when they get to 'sixth form' especially if housed independently in central london, is almost too much to deal with and they may go 'off the rails' and more dramatically than, say a 13 year old who throws the odd tantrum to test the boundaries. The adolescent years are when social development occurs, especially in terms of how we see ourselves within society, and how it is appropriate to act etc. If one is in a remote boarding school with strict rules and traditions that are almost religious, during a large majority of this developmental phase, it stands to reason that sociological development is going to be affected.

 

I have friends and colleagues who are professional dancers, and there's almost another step up from leaving sixth form and getting a contract in a company, where there is even more freedom to 'rebel' - I think this is why professional ballet dancers seem to wear the scruffiest clothes they can find too!

 

Edited to try to make more sense! (not sure if it helped though!)

Edited September 12, 2012 by drdance

[drdance]

In addition - I'll try not to get started on this one as it's something I tend to rant about! - the way that dancers are spoken to ( eg being called 'boys' and 'girls' even as adults, being 'criticised' and 'bossed about' by directors or choreographers, not to mention the 'desirable' physical aesthetic that looks extremely immature has been written about by a dance psychologist as all contributing to professional dancers being emotionally/developmentally quite immature, and therefore displaying immature behaviours.

 

According to an article on Guardian online (Sarah Hall, 2000) Julia Buckroyd's book "The Student Dancer" (2000) states that the system produces "incredibly emotionally immature" youngsters who are ill equipped to cope with the complexities of life beyond their narrow, rarefied existence.

[Anna C]

I was shocked only yesterday when my dd told me that one of the girls in her year (year 9) has had a party where there was alcohol involved. I did try alcohol at home when I was 15 but certainly would not have done at 13!

 

She thinks that smoking is a "stupid and bizarre" thing to want to do, and if offered/pressured, she plans to say "No thanks, my ballet teacher would murder me!" so we can only hope that works.

 

I'll be checking out any party invitations from now on though. I know teenagers will inevitably try alcohol at some point but not in Year 9 if I have anything to do with it!

[Kitschqueen_1]

It always concerns me when I collect my DD from her CAT scheme about the number of full time degree students who are smoking at the front of the building and in the quadrant.

I know they are adults and many are from Spain and France where smoking is more socially acceptable, but I do feel that the younger students look up to them and wish it could be made less visible.

I also agree with drdance's statement regarding the appetite suppressant qualities of nicotine which i know is a huge factor in why young females start to smoke.

Alcohol (and cannabis) use is so normative amongst young people these days across all social groups and the pressures to conform are huge. I think in some ways this puts more pressure on our DC's when they are committed to their dancing but still want to fit in with their peers.

[Kat09]

My daughter enjoyed the summer with NYB - I was a little surprised that the older members of the company were smoking outside - shame they could not have been more discreet as the younger dancers do look up to them. . .

[All4dancers]

My daughter enjoyed the summer with NYB - I was a little surprised that the older members of the company were smoking outside - shame they could not have been more discreet as the younger dancers do look up to them. . .

 

I was a little upset when my daughter (aged 12) wasn't shocked that they smoked!

[Fiz]

At one dance school, I did not notice if the teenagers smoked, but most of their dance teachers did!

[primrose]

Stand outside the doors of Birmingham Royal Ballet Studios, and you will see many of the dancers and staff having a cigeratte. I have learned over the years that smoking is one of the least harmful things that SOME (definately not all) dancers do. Somebody mentioned earlier about athletes looking after their bodies, I cant say that a lot of dancers look after their bodies in the same way.

[aileen]

Since the smoking indoors ban came in smoking has in a way become more visible. When I went to see DanceGB in Greenwich a number of dancers (some of whom I recognised as dancers from ENB) were smoking outside the big top (the performance was in a tent) in the intervals in full view of the audience. I probably sound like a puritan but I found it rather off-putting, even though these dancers were in their 20s and 30s. As far as teenagers are concerned, I've been told that year 9 is the year when they start drinking alcohol (obviously only some of them). My son is in year 10 but is very young in his year and is young for his age and hasn't shown any interest in, or encountered in his friends, smoking and drinking so far as he doesn't hang out with the more sophisticated, cool crowd. That may of course change. I feel that in terms of sophistication and experimentation with cigarettes and alcohol (and interest in the opposite sex) today's teenagers are about two years ahead of where most teenagers of my generation were at the same age. However, I think that heavy drinking in teenagers has really increased in the last decade or so, particularly in young women. When I was young it was regarded as a bit "common" for a young woman to get really drunk and most young women didn't drink that much. With the rise of ladette culture that view no longer prevails. And heavy drinking occurs in all social classes; really wealthy teenagers drink to excess and have to be taken to A&E because they have become seriously unwell. I have to say that many parents seem to have an incredibly relaxed attitude towards teenage drinking and allow it to go on at parties in their homes whilst they are there, or just turn a blind eye by allowing visibly drunk teenagers to enter their homes at the start of the party, or going out for the evening leaving their teenager in charge or, incredibly, going away for the evening or even the weekend.

[Tulip]

Perhaps some teenagers have too much money to buy alcahol with? I know they can obtain some from friends etc but like I said teenagers today seem to have a lot of money on them.

[Kitschqueen_1]

TBH, I get really fed up with the bad press our teens get!

I don't know if anyone saw the Panorama programme last week where it was reported that the largest number of hospitalisations for drink related ilnesses are amongst the 65+ but because they are drinking excessively at home in the main it is a hidden problem.

 

Maybe this discussion needs to be shifted to Not Dance as we have gone so far away from the original topic!

Edited September 14, 2012 by Kitschqueen_1

[JulieW]

It's interesting how this thread has moved on, as any conversation does, but I can't really move posts to another one - so how about we bring this thread to a close as it started off in a "good luck for next week" type discussion. Any further discussion about homesickness could be started in another thread, and likewise to further discussion about teenagers/dancers smoking/drinking etc.

 

I won't lock it yet in case anyone feels they need to respond to something directly on this thread, but please think about starting new threads to continue.