DD Driver Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 (edited) Take a look at Misty Copeland's instagram posts - mistonpointe- responding to some serious hate that a misguided individual had posted about her. It relates to her performance of the Swan Queen and failure to get to 32 fouettes. Or look at the Dance Magazine article (dancemagazine.com) on facebook or their site. Her 2 instagram posts on this are currently at 85,000 and 50,000 likes. Love it - Love her. Edited March 28, 2018 by DD Driver 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD Driver Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 Short story is that she did not make the 32 fouettes that night. Someone posted horrible words e.g. she is the WORST and an embarrassment... Misty put the 'critique' up and a link to her performance. Says she is not perfect etc but definitely worthy to be a principal at ABT....She starts a discussion around technique required these days (especially tricks) v. viewing an entire performance. Anyway the response to Misty's post is epic and heartwarming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Macmillan Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 This link (one of several available at a brief search) may help others in understanding what has occurred: https://www.glamour.com/story/misty-copeland-response-haters-knocking-swan-lake-fail 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 This would seem to relate to some of the debate here, namely how far can you go in criticizing a dancer. If you look at the clip the performance is embarrassingly bad, how can she expect people to react other than negatively? I'm afraid I find the terms 'serious hate' and 'haters' used in this context highly inappropriate, clearly ballet fans have reacted honestly to what they see. I understand from NY fans that this particular dancer is very technically challenged and is famous stateside for being famous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Wall Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Oh, dear ... I really had hoped this board was going to let this by-pass. Oh, well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coated Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 (edited) That video is not something you'd link to on your CV. Everyone can have an off-day, but I suspect if that had been a video of an RB principal there'd be an endless discussion about what happened. Edited March 28, 2018 by Coated 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD Driver Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 20 minutes ago, Bruce Wall said: Oh, dear ... I really had hoped this board was going to let this by-pass. Oh, well. ha ha sorry! I know we all have diverse opinions about different performers. I do see merit however in discussing 'how' we speak about people on social media. At work we say: if you would not be comfortable seeing your actions reported on the front page of the newspaper, then don't do it. To my children, I say: Anything you post you should be comfortable saying/doing in front of me and anyone involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Apparently it wasn't an off day, with this dancer it seems it's par for the course which begs the question, why do them? Antoinette Sibley substituted turns from relatively early in her career, curiously technical whizz Plisetskaya did too. Of course Lynn Seymour simply dropped that ballet altogether (such a shame, she was lovely in it) so it isn't as if there aren't alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancemom2 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 2 hours ago, MAB said: This would seem to relate to some of the debate here, namely how far can you go in criticizing a dancer. If you look at the clip the performance is embarrassingly bad, how can she expect people to react other than negatively? I'm afraid I find the terms 'serious hate' and 'haters' used in this context highly inappropriate, clearly ballet fans have reacted honestly to what they see. I understand from NY fans that this particular dancer is very technically challenged and is famous stateside for being famous. The post was not a critique of her performance, it was a highly inflammatory attack on Ms. Copeland, ABT, and American ballet in general. Regardless of whether this was "par for the course" as you "understand" (have you seen her perform?) or an anomaly, the post was just plain nasty and uncalled for. Definitely written from under a bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate_N Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 (edited) I've seen Ms Copeland perform - not in Swan Lake, but in a short classical piece as part of the ABT programme at the Kennedy Centre when I've been working in DC. I wouldn't sh'e's my favourite in pure classical pieces, but I'd just LOVE to see her in a Wayne McGregor piece. I saw Dusty Button dance something of his when she was with BRB, and there was something similar in the style of the two dancers - I wonder whether this is a matter of national style and training. I was a bit worried about my reaction, because I'm very well aware about the "unconscious bias" towards a long slim white female ballerina stereotype and against a more muscular explosive style - Copeland's physique is not that of the long-limbed 'sylph' (I saw an Murphnight dGance ay that dramatic role spectacularly). Copeland was partnered - the night I saw them - by Daniil Simkin who's been trained in a very different way. He used to post on the big US site, Ballet Talk for Dancers when he was a teen in training, and the conversations between him and one of the Teacher-Moderators there, Mel Johnson (wonderful man, artist & teacher) were illuminating around male classical training and artistry. But as much as I thought Ms Copeland was not suited to early 1840s Romantic ballet style, the attack on her is vicious, and goes beyond reasonable critique. Edited March 29, 2018 by Kate_N 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 The twitter account that Ms Copeland copied and pasted the tweet from has now been deleted. You can still see much of the robust defence on behalf of Ms Copeland though. The tweet is thoroughly unpleasant. I've not seen her dance so can't comment on the quality of her dancing but I think she is doing a great job of publicising ballet and hopefully encouraging a new generation of dancers and watchers. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 9 hours ago, Ian Macmillan said: This link (one of several available at a brief search) may help others in understanding what has occurred: https://www.glamour.com/story/misty-copeland-response-haters-knocking-swan-lake-fail I agree that the tweet was beyond the pale and Copeland's response was a good one, but I don't think the Glamour piece linked to will do her many favours with ballet fans. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 I agree Lizzie. The article is clearly written by someone who knows nothing about ballet. They would have been much better to have left Misty to speak for herself. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 8 hours ago, dancemom2 said: have you seen her perform?) Yes, many years ago, before she was a principal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 I have not seen Misty Copeland perform, so I am not commenting on her abilities, but I do remember from my younger years, when technique was not always as strong as it is today, that a shorter version of the fouettés leading into a manege was not uncommon, as was performing a manege for the whole of that section of the music. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Menage piques? Yes you're right, but some substituted the entire section. Ms Copeland would be wise to follow that example. Not all of us fetishize that wretched step, but please do them properly or not at all, alternatives are very acceptable, at least to me. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betterankles Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 11 hours ago, Coated said: That video is not something you'd link to on your CV. Everyone can have an off-day, but I suspect if that had been a video of an RB principal there'd be an endless discussion about what happened. Golly, was expecting something really not good. She came out of them OK and then went into a manege... and nothing wrong with the manege.. No one seems to talk about the rest of the performance which is REALLY what Swan Lake is about, White AND Black act - and FOURTH act too.. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betterankles Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Personally I think Fouettee fétichisme as regards Swan Lake is ridiculous. It was put in for Legnani, as she was good at them. As long as it is something which makes the Siegried’s head spin ! - why not. It’s about telling a STORY 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Newcombe Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 52 minutes ago, Pas de Quatre said: I have not seen Misty Copeland perform, so I am not commenting on her abilities, but I do remember from my younger years, when technique was not always as strong as it is today, that a shorter version of the fouettés leading into a manege was not uncommon, as was performing a manege for the whole of that section of the music. I remember a dancer with one of our Royal companies taking this approach. I saw her first Lac and she ran out of steam after the first 16 or so. From then on, she took the approach mentioned above. In no way did this diminish her superb performances in this role 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalletcoForum Moderators Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 A post on this thread is hidden while it is under review for being thought to contravene the Acceptable Use Policy and/or forum moderation policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Tony Newcombe said: I remember a dancer with one of our Royal companies taking this approach. I saw her first Lac and she ran out of steam after the first 16 or so. From then on, she took the approach mentioned above. In no way did this diminish her superb performances in this role Going back a few years most RB dancers had trouble with the step, though one used to do at least twenty eight. At the time I was friendly with an American who had developed a passion for the Royal Ballet and one night we went to see Festival Ballet, as it then was, in Swan Lake. The O/O was Galina Panova who threw in so many doubles and triples that I lost count. My friend was amazed and made the comment "I thought they were a step dancers only attempted but didn't achieve" Things have certainly changed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Wall Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 (edited) Galina Panova was both fortified and animated by her legs of steel. Her lucky audiences always left reinforced. Edited March 29, 2018 by Bruce Wall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMonk Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 I found this whole thing ridiculous to be honest. Other than watching that documentary on Netflix I've never seen her perform so I can't say what her "normal" is. But in any event I watched the youtube clip and I can fully appreciate her response to it. I'm never of the opinion that you just have to take it, sometimes you do need to speak up. However, There have been much bigger fubars in ballet than just missing fouettes. As Kristen McNally once said on World Ballet Day, (paraphrasing) "You can do 4 pirouettes in the studio but on stage everything's different." Or better yet a constant phrase from Steven McRae "Perfection doesn't exist." 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicola H Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 On 3/29/2018 at 22:54, MissMonk said: <snip>t." Or better yet a constant phrase from Steven McRae "Perfection doesn't exist." or as a number of upper limb or knee focused orthopaedic surgeons i worked with in a past life used to say ' perfect is the enemy of good ' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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