Jump to content
Vonrothbart

British training at Lower and Upper Schools

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, mart said:

Why was my post removed it was a legitimate question, 

Personally, I felt it was highly inappropriate to single out an individual pupil in this way and highly irrelevant too!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, mart said:

Why was my post removed it was a legitimate question, I will repeat it ,did the AD s dauughter get to upper school  what is wrong with that . 

 

Posts which identify specific pupils are not allowed. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok then how can we find out who got US places this year . Without treading on toes .and being inappropriate on the forum 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, mart said:

Ok then how can we find out who got US places this year . Without treading on toes .and being inappropriate on the forum 

We can’t unless the parents or child personally lets you know. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m new to the forum with a daughter off to vocational school in September , obviously reading the statistics on here is alarming and a bit depressing if I’m honest . Is there anyone on here that could share some happy/ successful stories of their children’s time at vocational school and beyond ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mart, our Forum rules are clear and all members agree to these rules upon joining the Forum.  As well as a specific section about Discussing Schools, the Acceptable Use Policy also has this paragraph under “Privacy”:

 

No member should give details of another member’s children such as their name or their dance school, unless the parent has already done so publicly here – this applies particularly in the Doing Dance forum.”

 

I hope that clarifies things.  

 

Many thanks,

 

Anna C on behalf of Balletcoforum Moderators
 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeteitallaway

 

Please don’t be despondent.

One of my pupils has recently graduated and has gained a job in a reputable company in the U.K. .

 

She began at my own school , then Hammond , then another vocational school for post 16 .

 

My DS went to Tring in year 9 and graduated in 2017 .

He gained a job in a lovely classical company abroad and is extremely happy .

He had an amazing time at Tring - gained 8 GCSE , 2 A levels .

He also made lifelong friends , particularly one , who still comes on holiday with us .

His time there included 3 trips to Sweden , a fully funded Summer school in Hong Kong for 3 weeks and much more .

 

These are just a couple of the many many success stories out there .

Of course there will be a few who don’t make the grade , or have a change of heart , but equally those who go on to happy and fulfilled careers in the industry .

My DS has a friend who gave up dancing aged 18 after being 

at vocational school since 11 .

He says that he doesn’t regret a single minute .

 

Good luck on your journey into vocational world , I am sure exciting times lie ahead .

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, tutugirl said:

Jeteitallaway

 

Please don’t be despondent.

One of my pupils has recently graduated and has gained a job in a reputable company in the U.K. .

 

She began at my own school , then Hammond , then another vocational school for post 16 .

 

My DS went to Tring in year 9 and graduated in 2017 .

He gained a job in a lovely classical company abroad and is extremely happy .

He had an amazing time at Tring - gained 8 GCSE , 2 A levels .

He also made lifelong friends , particularly one , who still comes on holiday with us .

His time there included 3 trips to Sweden , a fully funded Summer school in Hong Kong for 3 weeks and much more .

 

These are just a couple of the many many success stories out there .

Of course there will be a few who don’t make the grade , or have a change of heart , but equally those who go on to happy and fulfilled careers in the industry .

My DS has a friend who gave up dancing aged 18 after being 

at vocational school since 11 .

He says that he doesn’t regret a single minute .

 

Good luck on your journey into vocational world , I am sure exciting times lie ahead .

 

Thank you , wonderful to hear this . I’ve gone through so many emotion in the last week . From happiness to sheer panic . I’m trying to approach it realistically and hope that it’s the right decision. Sounds like your son had a wonderful time regardless of the outcome. Hope to hear some more happy stories .... pours wine 🍷 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Anna C said:

 

No member should give details of another member’s children such as their name or their dance school, unless the parent has already done so publicly here 

 

Is the AD a member of this forum? Perhaps the Forum rules should be "No member should give details of *any* child ...." - just to make it clear?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, glissade said:

Is the AD a member of this forum? Perhaps the Forum rules should be "No member should give details of *any* child ...." - just to make it clear?

 

To be honest, I don’t know and I wouldn’t/couldn’t confirm or deny even if I knew.  

 

For now, let’s assume that we don’t allow “outing” of or discussion of which school anyone else’s child has or has not got into, with the exception of publicly named competition winners (also mentioned in the AUP). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So based on (unconfirmed and maths not my greatest subject) is this a fair comment?

 

In the girls if there are approx 18 students and from that about 4-5 have made it to Upper School that's about a 27% chance of making the cut. From these 4-5 I think only 2 have been there since Y7 which makes only 11% chance of your DC making the cut.

 

I wonder how this compares to the other schools which have Upper Schools?

If you are a new parent entering y7 with this information would you still send you DC to this school knowing the limited progression rate or would you opt for a school that you know your DC would have a better chance of going through the school years? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello everyone. I've been reading through all the posts as I often do although don't often comment or post myself. I agree and sympathise with everyone on here. But these stories are not new..... The ballet/dance world is a law unto itself. Whilst things should be fairer sadly I don't think they ever will. And can I just say it is Directors choice whether you are auditioning for schools or companies. 

My DD would probably be considered a success story having gone all the way through RBS and graduating a couple of years ago having never I might add been picked up for JAs. Her time both at lower and upper school was full of ups and downs and times when teachers comments could actually be quite cruel. Casting choices.....'Oh the same old ones' 🙄  There's a lot I believe that goes on behind the scenes..... But I think if you can keep your head down,work your socks off and look at the bigger picture and the end game and try not to get involved in the small politics that go on.....it can help your journey wherever it may land you. 

I completely understand the parents of DC auditioning for companies. We had all of that. Me tirelessly searching for cheap flights and hotels and buses to theatres. How demoralising it is for your kids if the director just about puts in an appearance 10 minutes before the end of the class. My advice there would be if you can possibly get a private audition.....for example join in with the company ....avoid open auditions....they are like cattle markets and so much talent gets missed. 

My DD is in a company in Germany and it has been very tough ......the directors are very hard. But.....she is performing , she has made a life for herself. And I think maybe if she'd had a really easy time at school she would not have been able to cope with what goes on beyond vocational school. And now that that bit is behind us we can remember the good bits. Performing with the company....dancing at Buckingham palace.....trips to Japan and New York. And definately the incredible friendships that are made and will last a lifetime.  

And some of those even though they secured contracts have actually decided this life isn't for them.....and they are perfectly happy doing other things. But at the tender age of 11.....this is what all of them wanted to do. Imagine if they'd not given it a go and then in later years thinking 'what if'. 

There are no guarantees in life whatever your children decide they want to do/be. 

But good luck to all those starting on the vocational route......and yes much wine will be needed 🍷

  • Like 16

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Juliet said:

Hello everyone. I've been reading through all the posts as I often do although don't often comment or post myself. I agree and sympathise with everyone on here. But these stories are not new..... The ballet/dance world is a law unto itself. Whilst things should be fairer sadly I don't think they ever will. And can I just say it is Directors choice whether you are auditioning for schools or companies. 

My DD would probably be considered a success story having gone all the way through RBS and graduating a couple of years ago having never I might add been picked up for JAs. Her time both at lower and upper school was full of ups and downs and times when teachers comments could actually be quite cruel. Casting choices.....'Oh the same old ones' 🙄  There's a lot I believe that goes on behind the scenes..... But I think if you can keep your head down,work your socks off and look at the bigger picture and the end game and try not to get involved in the small politics that go on.....it can help your journey wherever it may land you. 

I completely understand the parents of DC auditioning for companies. We had all of that. Me tirelessly searching for cheap flights and hotels and buses to theatres. How demoralising it is for your kids if the director just about puts in an appearance 10 minutes before the end of the class. My advice there would be if you can possibly get a private audition.....for example join in with the company ....avoid open auditions....they are like cattle markets and so much talent gets missed. 

My DD is in a company in Germany and it has been very tough ......the directors are very hard. But.....she is performing , she has made a life for herself. And I think maybe if she'd had a really easy time at school she would not have been able to cope with what goes on beyond vocational school. And now that that bit is behind us we can remember the good bits. Performing with the company....dancing at Buckingham palace.....trips to Japan and New York. And definately the incredible friendships that are made and will last a lifetime.  

And some of those even though they secured contracts have actually decided this life isn't for them.....and they are perfectly happy doing other things. But at the tender age of 11.....this is what all of them wanted to do. Imagine if they'd not given it a go and then in later years thinking 'what if'. 

There are no guarantees in life whatever your children decide they want to do/be. 

But good luck to all those starting on the vocational route......and yes much wine will be needed 🍷

Finally a success story , I do feel we are giving up so much sending her it’s nice to hear some positivity. Thank you for sharing 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, FredF said:

So based on (unconfirmed and maths not my greatest subject) is this a fair comment?

 

In the girls if there are approx 18 students and from that about 4-5 have made it to Upper School that's about a 27% chance of making the cut. From these 4-5 I think only 2 have been there since Y7 which makes only 11% chance of your DC making the cut.

 

I wonder how this compares to the other schools which have Upper Schools?

If you are a new parent entering y7 with this information would you still send you DC to this school knowing the limited progression rate or would you opt for a school that you know your DC would have a better chance of going through the school years? 

Firstly, there are way less than 18 female students in the class.

Secondly, as posters have already described, nothing is straightforward in the dance world, from yr7 ( or before) and through that uncertainty and upheaval  comes strength, persistence, creativity and experience, all of which you will need in bucketloads if you are to eventually be part of a company. Not being accepted to upper school as a natural progression may be a confidence crusher to begin with, but over the long term it can be a blessing and give you the extra experience you need. Finding new schools/ teachers who motivate you more and see different qualities and potential in you and enable you to push yourself onwards and upwards, can lead to a more creative and mature dancer.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For my daughter it wasn’t a case that she wanted to go away to vocational school, it was a need, a thirst to really, really have to go. She was desperate to perform, loved it and yet she was a very quiet and very academic little girl. Her strength and determination got her through some of the tough times. I always asked if she wanted to come home, but she always said no this is what I have to do to become a dancer. 

I actually believe that our country has some excellent training and associate programmes alongside a very good education. If your child gets a place at a good vocational school, with good education, small class sizes etc, then be proud. If they change their mind or if it’s not the right pathway for them, then that’s fine too, best to have experienced the opportunity rather than regretting. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, glissade said:

Is the AD a member of this forum? Perhaps the Forum rules should be "No member should give details of *any* child ...." - just to make it clear?

You make a good point here, Glissade, so we have just changed the wording of the AUP to reflect your suggestion above.  Thank you.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, valentina said:

Firstly, there are way less than 18 female students in the class.

Secondly, as posters have already described, nothing is straightforward in the dance world, from yr7 ( or before) and through that uncertainty and upheaval  comes strength, persistence, creativity and experience, all of which you will need in bucketloads if you are to eventually be part of a company. Not being accepted to upper school as a natural progression may be a confidence crusher to begin with, but over the long term it can be a blessing and give you the extra experience you need. Finding new schools/ teachers who motivate you more and see different qualities and potential in you and enable you to push yourself onwards and upwards, can lead to a more creative and mature dancer.

As I said my figures are unconfirmed (some years are close to that number),  and I agree on your points. It was more of a point of if there was anyway in comparison between schools. If one school had a retention percentage much higher and still produced good dancers than another would this be a better school? WL does have a advantage as a "Brand Name" but its a shame there is not a independent process to check that the standard is deserved. A proper independent league table of dance schools may make interesting reading! A OFSTEAD of the dance schools would help a lot of people and probably schools who don't have huge financial backing but do have great teachers and passion.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Facebook reminded that 10 years ago today my son was offered a place at ENBS. I was more than a little excited having felt very stressed for weeks over the auditions - we heard on the day of the final audition and we were still waiting to hear from others schools at the time. He went to WL from year 7 to 9 then to Elmhurst, which is where he chose to stay for upper school in the end. He went on to work in a ballet company in Europe for 3 years before coming back to work freelance in the UK but then decided to give up dancing. 

 

We (that does include him) don't regret a minute despite some terrible lows - there were plenty of highs to keep us going. It was always about giving him the opportunity to try and see what happened with no regrets of "what if?". 

 

Out of his WL year group most have gone on to be professional dancers - well the boys at least. I'm not sure about all the girls - fewer of them are still dancing. 

 

All you can do is make the best decisions you can at the time without looking too far ahead because you just don't know what's going to happen. Some will go on to be Royal Ballet principals, most won't, but they will have amazing experiences along the way.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, FredF said:

As I said my figures are unconfirmed (some years are close to that number),  and I agree on your points. It was more of a point of if there was anyway in comparison between schools. If one school had a retention percentage much higher and still produced good dancers than another would this be a better school? WL does have a advantage as a "Brand Name" but its a shame there is not a independent process to check that the standard is deserved. A proper independent league table of dance schools may make interesting reading! A OFSTEAD of the dance schools would help a lot of people and probably schools who don't have huge financial backing but do have great teachers and passion.

 

I totally get your point and yes, it’s very easy to use the ‘ brand name’ without it being thoroughly deserved. However trying to ‘measure’ the standard is fairly impossible to do. Exams sometimes give us some idea of a certain standard being reached but we all know they are not conclusive evidence. Darcy Bussell is the example of this having achieved a pass plus for her first Professional exam ( the marks used to be pass, passplus, commended, highly commended, honours) Would hate to think of ballet taking the route of some academic schools where being top of the league tables is the main goal. Destroys the meaning, enjoyment, artistry of learning anything! How can you possibly measure that certain ‘something’ that makes a dancer a dancer and not a sports person. Most vocational schools, have their fair share of good and less good teachers and are a mixed bag of desirable and less desirable. Just because one will be more likely to take you through both  lower and upper school does not necessarily mean you are of a better standard or more likely to find employment at the end. Many of the students I trained with had, at some point, been assessed out of another school. After the initial shock, most went on to have successful dance careers in classical work. And is finding employment the absolute measure of good standard? As many people have mentioned there is the journey to consider. Then there is the element of taste. What one artistic director loves another hates and so on, not to mention how the different personalities of the students will do well at one school and not the other and vice versa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The schools are all inspected for the quality of academic and vocational education but it’s impossible to quantify a league table of which is the best. One could argue that where teachers only have cherry picked students to work with they have an easier time than those who work with students with more impe factions for example. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember also some DC’s may just want a change of scene/location/peers/teachers etc. Spending Years 7-11 in one school - especially if boarding - can seem a long 5 years & even though the US may well offer what they want, they may still seek to change! Variety is the spice of life & just as many non dancing young people change schools for Sixth Form with so many more options opening up, it should be expected that the dance world will be the same with more defined courses/qualifications/company associations/performance opportunities/costs etc meaning many more choices in the small world of dance & even smaller world of ballet!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

Remember also some DC’s may just want a change of scene/location/peers/teachers etc. Spending Years 7-11 in one school - especially if boarding - can seem a long 5 years & even though the US may well offer what they want, they may still seek to change! Variety is the spice of life & just as many non dancing young people change schools for Sixth Form with so many more options opening up, it should be expected that the dance world will be the same with more defined courses/qualifications/company associations/performance opportunities/costs etc meaning many more choices in the small world of dance & even smaller world of ballet!

Couldn’t agree more peanut68. Being in the same establishment for too long can lead to a sort of apathy for both students and teachers.

Nothing like a change of scene to re- energise oneself. The downside of this is the funding issue, I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎19‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 19:43, junedancer said:

 

This must be disheartening for those at WL, but hopefully the WL training puts them on a good place to audition successfully elsewhere.

 

I wonder why this is more of an issue for the girls than the boys other than generally there will be more girls in training than boys.

 

We suppose we also need to remember that there are a number who leave of their own volition for all manner of reasons.

 

It would be nice to see places being offered to those who have trained elsewhere in the UK.  Any news on other offers?

 

To answer my own question, just heard of a girl from Tring with an offer for RBS US.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Dancermum2003 said:

Currently at Tring or ex-Tring?

 

Currently at Tring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My DD has just told me that a boy at Elmhurst has also been offered RBS upper school which is fantastic. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 21/03/2019 at 11:43, FredF said:

So based on (unconfirmed and maths not my greatest subject) is this a fair comment?

 

In the girls if there are approx 18 students and from that about 4-5 have made it to Upper School that's about a 27% chance of making the cut. From these 4-5 I think only 2 have been there since Y7 which makes only 11% chance of your DC making the cut.

 

I wonder how this compares to the other schools which have Upper Schools?

If you are a new parent entering y7 with this information would you still send you DC to this school knowing the limited progression rate or would you opt for a school that you know your DC would have a better chance of going through the school years? 

 

Our DD will be off to WL in September and we’re behind her the whole way! As a family, we’ve discussed the pros and cons of each school and absolutely, some feel like a much “safer” option where she’d nearly certainly avoid the heartbreak of being assessed out. However, she has her heart set on it and I don’t blame her! She probably doesn’t fully comprehend the gravity of what is ahead at the ripe old age of 10, but we’ve come to the conclusion that to stop her because we’re scared of the possibility of rejection would be a self fulfilling prophecy. 

I’m certain that the worry will be constant for us at home but we’re going to have a crack at keeping that to ourselves and being as positive as possible for DDs sake! 

  • Like 13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DD hasn't/isn't auditioning for lower schools as that is not what she wants to do, we're starting to think about/look at upper schools, but she'd rather wait till 18plus to further her training as she is looking at musical theatre rather than classical ballet and I am already scared of what the future may or may not hold for her. But as you say ... you just have to support and encourage them to follow their dreams. ( whilst holding a happy smile on your face! )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...