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6th form level dance questions


bethany

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9 minutes ago, sarahw said:

Pictures that is very interesting 

Interesting and a little depressing - makes you wonder how many people with potential don't make it because they simply couldn't afford to train. I know when teen gets to 16, getting a place is only half the battle (and it feels like a battle!). If it's not a funded place she'll have to go for option B and that's always been clear. But it would be easier in many ways if she gets no place rather than a place we can't afford for her to take up...

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We know a very talented local dancer who got a place at Bird but no scholarship and a very talented singer who the same thing happened to. They are both doing local am dram and not bitter about what happened. I could cry for them both, particularly the dancer. When he is onstage, I can’t look at anyone else, that’s how good he is. It’s such a shame.

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The funding 'thing' honestly keeps me awake at night?  I absolutely dread my DD being offered a place - which let's face it is a massive achievement in itself - and then she can't accept because she can't get the funding.  It's all very well saying , I've made it clear from the start  but I'm just unsure how I could personally deal with that never mind DD.

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I totally understand that. My youngest dd didn’t get into to drama school at 18 and settled for doing a practical drama degree. Several years on she is still eating her heart out and doing am dram only feeds her yearning.

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very interesting replies thank you. 

Why do I have a niggling feeling that we might find ourselves in this position in a years time?

I agree it almost feels worse to get the offer with no funding than to get no offer at all.

Fingers crossed for us all.

Hoping my younger child chooses something a bit less confusing! 

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47 minutes ago, Pixiewoo said:

DD eats, lives and breathes dance and musical theatre at the moment ... there is just a tiny little bit of me that hopes that in 3/5yrs time, it has reduced to 'hobby' status, rather than the reason for being. 

Lol...my DD has just become more obsessed /committed and I'm foolish enough to support her 100%

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I’m sure I can’t be the only one in this predicament or at least hope not. Re classical ballet, even if my child was fortunate enough to be offered a dada for an upper schools, we are that borderline on the scale it wouldn’t count for anything. At the same point our monthly income does not leave anywhere near enough to pay full fees of 27k + a year which most schools are .  I can’t get my head around the jump in fees and how we are supposed to be able to pay full fees. The only option would be an mds which only one school offers. Also these private establishments do not allow student loans to be taken out. 

Can anyone suggest anything please or the route they have gone down. Any advice greatly appreciated.

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I think its an income of £90,000 where you don't get anything.  We are well under that limit but through careful budgeting have managed to fund dd through lower school on a non MDS place with a bursary (so we are currently paying around £9-10k per year).  We also had another child in normal private education for some of that time but he has moved to the state system now so we are trying to save the money we would have spent on him.  We have calculated that if dd is fortunate enough to get a Dada we will be paying £2.5-3k per year which is a big difference and would be a huge help to us.

 

At the Hammond 1st round auditions the lady who deals with those things said that they do try and look to give bursary help to those who are not eligible for Dada help.  Obviously they are not completely classical but their classical training is very good but you do have to do other styles. I have to be honest and say that an income of that level would mean I would never have to worry about paying fees but I do appreciate everyone's circumstances are different.  Other colleges (MT not classical) dd has auditoned for have also offered scholarships ranging from as little as 10% but I believe up to 50% is available depending on varying factors at certain instututions.

 

There are also a few institutions such as RCS & Rambert I think who come under the Student Loans system.  Access toa student loan isn't to do with whether a college is private or not (though it does affect the amount available) its to do with the qualification offered.  Anywhere offering a Trinity Level 6 diploma can only offer Dada funding not Student Loans, anywhere offering a degree or HND can offer Student Finance if they are "designated" by HEFCE.

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47 minutes ago, Lifeisgood said:

I’m sure I can’t be the only one in this predicament or at least hope not. Re classical ballet, even if my child was fortunate enough to be offered a dada for an upper schools, we are that borderline on the scale it wouldn’t count for anything. At the same point our monthly income does not leave anywhere near enough to pay full fees of 27k + a year which most schools are .  I can’t get my head around the jump in fees and how we are supposed to be able to pay full fees. The only option would be an mds which only one school offers. Also these private establishments do not allow student loans to be taken out. 

Can anyone suggest anything please or the route they have gone down. Any advice greatly appreciated.

We aren't eligible for DADA funding, and despite having an income in excess of the £90K paying somewhere in the region of £30K per year to fully self fund was out of the question. It might have been an option if we only had DD, but we don't, and my other children also have talents and ambitions of their own. So I told my DD that basically she needed to do a course that was eligible for student finance. There are quite a few degree courses that attract full or at least partial student finance. As DD is at a private institution she doesn't get the full fees paid, and only receives the minimum maintenance loan as that is means tested. I'd estimate that were spending somewhere in the region of £12K per year now, so still not cheap but that's a lot more manageable than fully funding a diploma.

As others have said, there are bursary and scholarships available from some schools too that are separate from the government funding scheme, so that might bring the costs down to a more manageable level.

Good luck - it's not easy.

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Hi Pictures. Thanks for the reply. Its really good you managed to find a way to make it all work. We already budget really carefully but already know by the time mortgage, council tax, utilities, food etc is paid there is no where enough to pay the 2400 a month that would be required to attend say ENB, Elmhurst etc. Maybe people are able to do it because of savings, shame the dada/mds Dont take that into account.  

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RCS, Rambert School, Central School of Ballet, Ballet West and (I think) London Studio Centre all offer degree courses (as opposed to Level 6 diplomas) which are eligible for student finance.  However, Ballet West and London Studio Centre are classed as "private institutions" which means that SFE will not offer loans that cover the institutions' full tuition fees - I believe the maximum loan available is £6165.  This means a shortfall for English, Welsh and NI students:  

 

http://www.balletwest.ac.uk/fees/#UK fees

http://londonstudiocentre.org/admissions/course-fees

 

RCS, Rambert and Central are not classed as private universities so the tuition fee loan should cover the full amount of tuition fees for students from England, Wales and NI.

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39 minutes ago, Pups_mum said:

We aren't eligible for DADA funding, and despite having an income in excess of the £90K paying somewhere in the region of £30K per year to fully self fund was out of the question. It might have been an option if we only had DD, but we don't, and my other children also have talents and ambitions of their own. So I told my DD that basically she needed to do a course that was eligible for student finance. There are quite a few degree courses that attract full or at least partial student finance. As DD is at a private institution she doesn't get the full fees paid, and only receives the minimum maintenance loan as that is means tested. I'd estimate that were spending somewhere in the region of £12K per year now, so still not cheap but that's a lot more manageable than fully funding a diploma.

As others have said, there are bursary and scholarships available from some schools too that are separate from the government funding scheme, so that might bring the costs down to a more manageable level.

Good luck - it's not easy.

Thanks pups mum! It’s so hard isn’t it. I just think dadas should  also be awarded on talent and income shouldn’t be the factor that totally decides if you qualify. She would love some to go to some of the schools ( if offered) but seems she won’t be a able to unless like said a bursary is offered! 

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We’ve always managed to pay out of income the only savings we had was enough to cover 1 years fees for both children which was back up in case of illness/redundancy etc). Which brings me to my point - do always consider what you would do if your circumstances drastically changed & consider notice periods & what you might be liable for. 

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14 minutes ago, Lifeisgood said:

Thanks pups mum! It’s so hard isn’t it. I just think dadas should  also be awarded on talent and income shouldn’t be the factor that totally decides if you qualify. She would love some to go to some of the schools ( if offered) but seems she won’t be a able to unless like said a bursary is offered! 

If I ruled the world I think I would get rid of DADAs altogether and make student finance available for the diploma courses. I think that would be fairer all round. The status of the diploma really needs to be sorted out I think. It's a level 6 qualification, as is a bachelor's degree, but the diploma doesn't attract student finance because it doesn't have as much academic content as I understand it. Yet I have heard of people with the diploma being refused student finance for an unrelated degree later, on the grounds that they already have a level 6 qualification, even if they funded it themselves......it makes so sense at all to my simple mind, surely they are either equivalent or they are not. I'd make a loan available once, and once only for everyone doing a level 6 qualification, diploma or degree. I think that would be much fairer and easier to understand.

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I think that's the main issue; the inconsistency.  I'm sure it used to be that if your diploma course was self funded or DaDa funded, you could still apply for student finance from SFE for an unrelated degree, which was ideal if you changed path for whatever reason.  Now it's unclear what you can or can't get and in some instances, it sounds as if different advisors give different advice on different days, which is confusing all round. 

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On 14/03/2018 at 21:21, Moneypenny said:

The impression we got when looking at securing places into upper school a few years ago, particularly in respect of dada funding, was that they are already looking at potential for employability at 16. 

 

Yes, at dd's Leeds audition she was told that they were looking at employability and whether they could get someone to industry standard in 3 years.  She was quite bluntly told that her singing was ensemble not solo standard and her acting not strong enough hence being turned down for their MT course but that they wanted her for the dance course.

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6 hours ago, Mummy twinkle toes said:

Urdang are now offering a level 3 dance course. It is free for everyone studying at level 3 (A level/ BTEC ) for first time. 

I think you will find it's only free for 16-23 year olds and the 19-23 year olds will only be funded if they haven't got a full level 3 already.  Otherwise they will have to take out an advanced learning loan which has to be paid back when the learner earns more than £21k.  Level 3 course costs are generally around £3k per year dependant on the qualification.

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Hi my DD attends PCD ie Preston college Dance based in Preston. She is doing the 2yr foundation degree after achieving A levels in a mix of subjects including A level dance! The dance college is now able to offer a full Ba in dance, performance and education which my DD will complete with them! The dancers take classes in musical theatre as well as a large variety of dance genres and their days are full

Whilst the PCD course is challenging, A level Dance has stood her in good stead as the academic side of the course is far less daunting as a result!

The course is a mixture of furthering the students own dance levels via ISTD exams, performance and audition, academic modules plus DDE dance teaching qualifications! The college has lovely facilities, is supportive and nurturing and my DD is very happy there!

They also run a three year professional dance diploma for which it is mainly fully funded between 16/18 yrs old

Seemingly students can opt to switch to the degree course at 18 if they wish!

Past students seem to get contracts with cruise ships and touring shows plus work within dance teaching and via the annual shows the dancers look professional and well trained!

It would be well worth a look as it seems to bridge the gap between dance performance and teaching with an option of pathways and funding!

Good luck with finding the right course for your DD!

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8 hours ago, Clarkd3 said:

Hi my DD attends PCD ie Preston college Dance based in Preston. She is doing the 2yr foundation degree after achieving A levels in a mix of subjects including A level dance! The dance college is now able to offer a full Ba in dance, performance and education which my DD will complete with them! The dancers take classes in musical theatre as well as a large variety of dance genres and their days are full

Whilst the PCD course is challenging, A level Dance has stood her in good stead as the academic side of the course is far less daunting as a result!

The course is a mixture of furthering the students own dance levels via ISTD exams, performance and audition, academic modules plus DDE dance teaching qualifications! The college has lovely facilities, is supportive and nurturing and my DD is very happy there!

They also run a three year professional dance diploma for which it is mainly fully funded between 16/18 yrs old

Seemingly students can opt to switch to the degree course at 18 if they wish!

Past students seem to get contracts with cruise ships and touring shows plus work within dance teaching and via the annual shows the dancers look professional and well trained!

It would be well worth a look as it seems to bridge the gap between dance performance and teaching with an option of pathways and funding!

Good luck with finding the right course for your DD!

Thank you - this wasn't on our list so I will have a look 

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Hi Bethany

I haven't commented on the forum for a while as my knowledge isn't as current nowadays but I also have a dd currently at PCD.

It is well worth a look ,however on the 16-18 course although the DDE is financed it is only for one subject you can pay for the other two , vocational exams are taken care of as well , additionally you pay £1,250 a year for the performance package .

This includes classes and workshops from ex industry professionals some of whom work at "bigger" colleges 

If your daughter has to live away from home there is the usual rent etc we are lucky that DD travels in every day.

So depending on income it can cost you more than if you were on dada funding elsewhere.

There is an annual Choreograph competition , Christmas showcase, Annual show trips to move It and New York.

Take a look at You Tube this years Move It pieces they were fabulous .

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12 hours ago, HAIRBELLES said:

Hi Bethany

I haven't commented on the forum for a while as my knowledge isn't as current nowadays but I also have a dd currently at PCD.

It is well worth a look ,however on the 16-18 course although the DDE is financed it is only for one subject you can pay for the other two , vocational exams are taken care of as well , additionally you pay £1,250 a year for the performance package .

This includes classes and workshops from ex industry professionals some of whom work at "bigger" colleges 

If your daughter has to live away from home there is the usual rent etc we are lucky that DD travels in every day.

So depending on income it can cost you more than if you were on dada funding elsewhere.

There is an annual Choreograph competition , Christmas showcase, Annual show trips to move It and New York.

Take a look at You Tube this years Move It pieces they were fabulous .

Yes I agree, the Move It Piecess were fab! 

Guess our Dd must know each other, how weird! 

 

 

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19 hours ago, HAIRBELLES said:

Hi Bethany

I haven't commented on the forum for a while as my knowledge isn't as current nowadays but I also have a dd currently at PCD.

It is well worth a look ,however on the 16-18 course although the DDE is financed it is only for one subject you can pay for the other two , vocational exams are taken care of as well , additionally you pay £1,250 a year for the performance package .

This includes classes and workshops from ex industry professionals some of whom work at "bigger" colleges 

If your daughter has to live away from home there is the usual rent etc we are lucky that DD travels in every day.

So depending on income it can cost you more than if you were on dada funding elsewhere.

There is an annual Choreograph competition , Christmas showcase, Annual show trips to move It and New York.

Take a look at You Tube this years Move It pieces they were fabulous .

 

I've had a good look at the website and I think this type of training could suit my daughter. 

A good standard of dance training but with teacher training alongside. I think it's unlikely she will get any long term work as a dancer so my feeling at the moment is that she will go into some kind of teaching or other dance related work. 

 

Unfortunately although Manchester city centre is a feasible daily commute, anything outside might be a bit too far. I'm going to look into the travel options. 

 

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