So, You Want to Learn to Dance? - but....uh...I'm an adult....

[LinMM]

That's a very encouraging article Ian thanks! Nice to know there are quite a few out there older than me so doesn't make me feel quite so mad!!

[JulieW]

Saw that this morning. Didn't they look great

[VBee]

What a great article. I hope I can still dance when I'm in my 80s!

[Anjuli_Bai]

For far too long the dance community has ignored the adult -- and beyond - population of dance participants.  Dance in its original forms has not been, nor shall it be, reserved only for the youth.  It was an important component of tribal living and tribal partificipation.  There may have been a segment of the tribe who were the "official" dancers, but that didn't mean that the rest of the community didn't participate.  

 

At the professional level of today, mostly  limiiting it to the young adults - is a fairly new concept - mostly  due to the gymnastic demands of the dance.  Not long ago the older professional dancer was given a great deal of respect and appreciation.  The depth of their art was more valued than the height of their jump.  

[Moomin]

Well said anjuli. Hope you are feeling better x

[Fiz]

Seconded, Moomin.

[Anjuli_Bai]

The following is an expansion on the previous installment..........

 

 

When to Consider Changing Teachers

 

A friend of mine told me that her ballet teacher is teaching some things in a different way than my teacher does.  She wants me to try her class.  Is this a bad idea?

 

Trying another class isn't bad idea at all; in fact it can be very instructive. You can learn a lot about yourself, your progress and your teacher by exploring other classes once you are beyond the basic phase of learning ballet technique…

 

 

…the full text of this article from Ballet.co is available on the archive via this link

 

 

Next time:  "Performing in Public"

[VBee]

Another interesting article Anjuli, I'm looking forward to the "performing in public" one, which leads me onto something we were disucssing in class last week.

 

Performance and Technique; we were discussing how performance and technique were two of things that we found hard to balance, and how sometimes they seem to work against each other.

 

Some of us in the class are very focused on technique and find that we aren’t such great performers. Yet others in the class are far better performers however their technique is not as good. As one of the first group I think by nature I am not very confident and a bit of a perfectionist and so for me the easier part of dancing is to focus closely on the correct technique and placement etc. as it allows me to be in my own world and not be so concerned that someone is watching me. Yet when our teacher tells us we need to perform, to project and communicate with our audience I find that my technique tends to suffer as I have to focus so hard to be confident on the performance aspects, which are out of character for me. I know that dancing is all about being able to connect with the audience and this is never going to happen if you are always looking at the floor.

 

As adults (and amateur dancers) who most likely have a strong sense of who we are, whether confident, shy, emotional etc, is this something we can overcome?

 

I was wondering whether anyone else struggles with this and whether you have found it is a common feature of shy or less confident students to be very technique focused? And conversely for more confident individuals to not be as technically correct yet better performers?  

[Anjuli_Bai]

Your response and excellent questions reminded me of an interview I once saw with Margot Fonteyn and Rudolph Nureyev.  I don't remember who the interviewer was but - 

 

She said that it was interesting that while she was more likely to throw herself emotionally into a role/performance - he was more careful about technique.  What amused her was that the appearance they gave on stage came across to the audience precisely the opposite - that he danced with more abandon and she was more precise and restrained.

 

Some very famous dancers struggled with debilitating stage fright all their performing lives.  The great Danseur Noble Erik Bruhn was one of them - from what I've read.  And, yet, he comes across as serene and smooth - making it all look like cream.  Nureyev once said that he needed to work at firing up his emotions and would purposely look for something to be angry or upset about.  

 

When I danced, I would wrap myself in the music and become someone else, - a dancing being - far from my everyday world.  I would arrive very early at  the theater to give myself time to put away the real world - and enter the world of light and music.  Fonteyn said she needed this time too and would never allow anyone (except her dresser) into her dressing room before a performance.

 

For those who have difficulty putting aside technique and simply allowing the dance to take over - I think they may have a lack of trust in their technique so they are constantly "checking" it.  This is part of who they are - but who we are is not a static thing.  I believe that we can change who we are and who we think we are.  We actually do that throughout our lives.  I used to tell my students - you can't keep your dance to yourself -- you have to give it away by welcoming others into your world.

 

So, as to your question:

 

"I was wondering whether anyone else struggles with this and whether you have found it is a common feature of shy or less confident students to be very technique focused? And conversely for more confident individuals to not be as technically correct yet better performers?  "

 

 

If we go back to Fonteyn and Nureyev - he was focused on the technique but there was nothing shy about him.  She was more able to abandon her focus on technique and yet was known as a more restrained person.

 

I don't think there is any one model - shy does not equal too much focus on technique - nor does confident equal better performers.

 

There are many shy people who have said that they feel free to come out of their shell when they are shielded by a costume, music and the distance of a stage.

 

I hope something I've said here makes sense.  

Edited November 5, 2013 by Anjuli_Bai

[LinMM]

http://balletnews.co.uk/the-royal-ballets-chosen-one/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BalletNews+%28Ballet+NEWS%29

 

 

Just dropped into my email box.

This is a very young dancer just chosen to do a principal role from out of the corps. She talks a bit about nerves and so on and how she

copes. Ive been keeping an eye on this dancer for my friends in Oz.......so am so pleased for her.

 

So even those who get to the top are not immune from nerves as Anjuli has indicated.

 

There is in the ballet news and info thread on the forum a series of videos about New York City Ballet under the heading "city-ballet"

This gives a fascinating insight into the dancers lives from school to Principal and now they deal with various day to day issues and realities for a dancer and performer.

[mimi66]

VBee's and Anjuli's post above reminded me of a longstanding question of mine: is musicality in ballet a technique?

 

Musicality here I am reffering to basic one, eg ability to dance with the music (as pporsed to dance as you hear the music ), ability to execute basic phrasing (particularly accents) as asked by the teacher. 

 

I have a feeling that those basic musiclity is somewhat not regarded as an important  part of technique for adult ballet students.  But it is a bit difficult to say for me - I have always been very musical and was musically trained as a child. 

 

May be because musicality is regarded as "performance" element?

[Anjuli_Bai]

Musicality is a quality with which some people are born - but it can also - most of the time - be taught.  

 

I think a lot of it depends upon the music the teacher uses for class.  Some teachers think that music for beginners should be very basic "ompah-ompah" music since they believe that beginners don't really hear the music because they are so so engrossed in learning the steps.

 

I don't agree.  Whilst I wouldn't use complex music - I would always use interesting music.  The teacher can also introduce - fairly early - the concept of "accent."  For instance, in a simple rond de jambe a terre - changing the accent from front - to side - to back.  Or in a simple degagé (battement glissé) - change the accent from "in" to "out."  

 

I don't think the music should be taught later - after there is some mastery of basic ballet vocabulary.  I think it should be taught at the same time.  

 

I think musicality - awareness of the music is very important.

 

It is not just a performance element.

 

Every ballet class - every exercise at the barre - from the moment the student's hand touches the barre is a performance.

[Michelle_Richer]

Every ballet class - every exercise at the barre - from the moment the student's hand touches the barre is a performance.

That's a wonderful thought.

But not in one of my classes, as my teacher says my port de bras on Plie are too flownsey, it OK for performances but not in this class. She is very strict and focused on technique. One bad habit I have picked up though, is more with Plie's than any other movement, I tend to close my eye as I feel the music and for me Plies are continuous, I just float into them with the music, its gorgeous.

 

I love Brahms Lullaby and Titanic theme for plié's at the barre.

 

Recently I fell in love with the music from Le Corsaire from the Harem Girls Dance.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Michelle_Richer

[LinMM]

I wish I could float into plies.....they are a bit of an ordeal some days especially in 4 th I have to concentrate so much trying to keep the body absolutely upright and the releasing and resetting of the heels. Keeping the turnout and bottom underneath and so on!

 

It s certainly good practice for performing though......trying to keep an elegant and calm look on the face whilst the knees are creaking away! After the plies I'm up for anything!!

 

I always try to relate what I'm doing to the music and in that way right from thebeginning of the the barre is a performance......but have no idea whether people would describe me as musical. I love the relationship of dance to the music and it was the music which attracted me to ballet in the first place........but not sure if that is enough to be called musical.

[hfbrew]

I wish I could float into plies.....they are a bit of an ordeal some days especially in 4 th I have to concentrate so much trying to keep the body absolutely upright and the releasing and resetting of the heels. Keeping the turnout and bottom underneath and so on!

It s certainly good practice for performing though......trying to keep an elegant and calm look on the face whilst the knees are creaking away! After the plies I'm up for anything!!

I always try to relate what I'm doing to the music and in that way right from thebeginning of the the barre is a performance......but have no idea whether people would describe me as musical. I love the relationship of dance to the music and it was the music which attracted me to ballet in the first place........but not sure if that is enough to be called musical.

Sounds to me as though you are musical! I cant bear to dance without music and it breaks my heart when I see dancers in class seemingly oblivious to a passionate pianist playing away in the corner! If I am observing at vocational schools I love playing name that tune in my head!

Give me a musically aware dancer rather than a gymnast anytime!

[Thecatsmother]

The art of a technically good full plié is tricky. There are also debates as to whether some should do from fourth. If you are getting pain in joints then this can be modified. This is why some company classes do not do a set plié and dancers are allowed to do what their body needs. I always think it is key to think why you are doing an exercise at the barre. Whilst the choreography may differ from class to class the key components are always there and form the basis of classical ballet hence why they get repeated daily by dancers over the years. Floor barre plies can also take strain off the joints if pain is experienced.

[Anjuli_Bai]

Many years ago I read an article  in a national dance magazine written by an orthopedic doctor affiliated with major dance companies - that pliés, specifically grand pliés are more harmful than worthwhile.  The only exception is grand plié in second position.

 

I gave that a lot of thought.  The full stretch of the calf muscle and Achilles tendon is achieved in demi-plié - in 1st, 4th and 5th plié.  No further stretch is achieved by going past demi into grand.  In fact, since the heels must lift in grand - this is an added potential for destabilization.  Since the intent of pliés is to initiate blood flow to the muscles - this strain adds nothing to the purpose of the exercise and in fact may do harm - especially to the knees.

 

If you look at the grand plié in any of the positions except 2nd - one can see that the joint of the knee is opened past its normal range and extent.  This is especially true as the contact of the thigh muscles against the calf muscles cause even more pressure on the knee joint and the cap which rides on top of it.  Remember,  it is a hinge joint - not a ball and socket.

 

In addition to all this strain it is  being demanded while carrying the full weight of the body.

 

I wrote to this doctor to confirm how I saw this - and he did in fact agree.  And, after talking to several ballet teachers, they too, agreed with my assessment.  But - continued to give grand pliés to their classes.  It just didn't make sense to me.

 

As a result from that time (early 1980's) I no longer gave grand to any of my students and I eliminated them from my repertoire, too.  Instead of a grand plié, I did two demis to fill out the music.  If a teacher looked askance at me or asked me why - I replied that a physician had told me that this was necessary for my knees (which was not entirely untrue!)  

 

I have to say that in all the subsequent years of dancing I never felt that eliminating grand pliés - except in 2nd position - had any detrimental effect on my dancing.  So why invite unnecessary stress to the body -- especially those vulnerable and precious knees?

[LinMM]

Well for me Ive often felt there should be two sets of plies.

At the beginning of the class just the demi.......and agree working more with demi as I do in one of my Russian classes I think is helpful....you can feel the stretch and this can only be good to support jumping later on in the class.

 

Then if there are tobe the grand plies I wish it would be an exercise to finish off the barre and some days I just don't do 4th if for some reason feel particularly un warmed up eg......haven't been running for buses and walking up or down hills first (I live high up)

 

I suppose the plies are so traditional that teachers don't like to leave them out.....however for classes for adults like myself who arent in a career with ballet they are probably not so important really.

[Anjuli_Bai]

"I suppose the plies are so traditional that teachers don't like to leave them out.....however for classes for adults like myself who arent in a career with ballet they are probably not so important really. "

 

How are they important at all?

 

As for adults versus children - a child's knee is even more vulnerable.

 

While I do reverence tradition - it used to be traditional to bleed people.

 

When something is harmful - and unnecessary -  shouldn't we be ready to change it?

 

For a ballet teacher (such as the several I spoke to) to acknowledge that something is harmful, yet still does it - 

[Michelle_Richer]

Just returning to post #111 Musicality.

 

This is just an observation I have noticed recently. I have been learning Giselle’s first variation and have worked quite a lot with it and always to the music. However a couple of times recently in classes where we have had a water break, I have attempted to dance this variation. Without the music there is clearly something missing, I guess for me it the cue’s for transition to the next movement or elongate the current one. The feeling I get without music, its just steps and they appear rushed. Music adds feeling, power; it lifts your spirit. With the right music I always feel it put that little bit of extra power into an extension etc, you can really feel it.

[Anjuli_Bai]

Performing in Public

 

 

 

 

 

Uh oh - my teacher said something about a recital!

 

Sounds like a good idea to me.  What do you think?

 

 

 

…the full text of this article from Ballet.co is available on the archive via this link:

 

 http://www.ballet.co.uk/magazines/yr_06/jun06/ab_doing_dance_17.htm

 

 

Next time:  "Good Fuel In - Good Energy Out"

[VBee]

So I took my grade 5 exam, and I think it went ok.... I haven’t had the results yet, why do they take so long!?

 

The examiner seemed nice enough and I don’t think she treated us any differently for being adults, other than I think she might have given us a longer break between the allegro exercises and the dance than usual  good to have a bit of a breather! There were no major disasters, I came in a little late for one of the centre exercises (I don’t know what happened I think my brain had switched off with all the adrenaline), pirouettes weren’t great, but I managed to get round. I got through the character work (my worst part) although I could have performed this section better. So all in all I don’t think I was really distinction material on the day and I know I’ve done everything better in class, but fingers crossed hopefully I’ll have passed. I’ll  come back and update you when I get my result.

 

Now I’m just looking forward to the Grade 6 work. Having watched some of the clips on youtube it looks really lovely, each of the exercises look more like a mini dance and the music seems much nicer than grade 5. Has anyone taken grade 6 recently? If so how did you find it?  Merry Christmas all.

[LinMM]

Sorry VBee was it RAD you were taking? Good luck anyway I'm sure you will pass!

 

I know the BBO grade material better than RAD though do bits of the latter sometimes on Saturdays. It's nice as you go up the grades that it usually gets more dancey. There is an exception in the grade 5 and 6 syllabus for the BBO reverence though. The grade 5 reverence is quite long and meaty......a little enchainement in its own rite.....and with lovely music but the grade 6 reverence is boring and a non event really!

 

My friends daughter in Oz took her RAD Advanced one back in November and gets the result tomorrow the 23 rd December!! I daren't email them though as she worked so hard....even postponing the exam initially as she wanted a Distinction/Honours whatever it is these days.......just hope it's good news for her too!

.

[Legseleven]

Well done for taking the exam, VBee! And holding thumbs for your friend's daughter in Australia, LinMM - I hope her Adv 1 result is what she hoped for x

[LinMM]

Thankyou Legseleven . Ive not had any news yet but I expect they're busy getting ready for Christmas as I know she has a couple of friends from UK staying and arriving Christmas Eve.......that is if they managed to get out of Heathrow!

[Terpsichore]

I returned to ballet a year ago at age 63 after a gap of 40 years and felt very much at sea, especially as I was 20 years older than the next oldest and more than 40 years older than the rest of the class.  I am not built for ballet and I was never very good at it when I was young but I enjoy class and have stuck to it.  I am a member of the "Over 55 class" at Northern Ballet which I blogged in this artilcle http://jelterps.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/adult-ballet-classes.html. I have also taken classes at Pineapple and the Base Studios in Huddersfield which I have also described in my blog.  

 

The index page to my experience of those classes is here http://jelterps.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/adult-ballet-classes.html   I hope others may find it useful.

 

I forgot to congratulate Vbee on her ambition and to add my keep my fingers crossed for LinMM's friend's daughter in Australia.

Edited December 24, 2013 by terpsichore

[LinMM]

Have just had an email from Oz she got a Distinction so hooray . .....might have to get the Baileys out before Christmas Day now! So pleased for her as she worked so sensibly towards what she wanted to achieve.

[Legseleven]

Huge congratulations to your friend's DD, LinMM! X

[LinMM]

Thankyou Legseleven

 

I hope she gets a bit of a rest now. It's the big school holidays in Oz now of course and its hot and humid in Sydney there yesterday anyway. Last summer she discovered surfing and looks very good up on the board......no doubt the ballet training comes in handy a bit with that! Biggest brother dives for New South Wales so maybe she will be following in his footsteps if the ballet doesn't take off! (She's still only 13 though).

[Michelle_Richer]

Hi Terpsichore

 

Do you do Annemarie's class on a Tuesday morning, if so, I will have seen you there, I also attended Chris’s Intermediate/ advance class in the evening as well.

 

I wonder, did you do the Cinderella rep workshop run by Rose at the Leeds Grand Theatre on Thursday morning, Rose was with us for the Tuesday morning class, she was just infront of me at the barre, small world.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Michelle_Richer

[Terpsichore]

Hi Michelle_Richer

 

I was at the class that Rose attended on the 17 Dec.  She was standing on the opposite side of the studio.   I regret that I did not attend the Cinderella workshop.

 

I usually attend Annemarie's Thursday morning class,   I attended her class on Tuesday because I had to miss her class on the 12 Dec owing to work commitments.

 

I shall look out for you in future. 

[Michelle_Richer]

Hi Terpsichore

 

I only attend Northern once a month on Tuesdays as I have my two regular classes at English National Ballet on Tuesday Evenings, but that particular day ENB was on break, so I got to do the evening class too. Usually its been run by Fi (Fiona). The girls at Northern usually go for a coffee/ snack at a Café just round the corner, I love that with a bit of social chat. My main attraction from the add was the second half hour class called "Creative Choreography", as I know Annemarie's dancers do a little spot in the performance in July(5th). Sadly on that day I will be performing with LAB at the Bloomsbury Theatre, then all the following week at the Angles Theatre in Cambridgeshire. Annemarie did say she would not be starting the Choreography until after the next term, I guess I will do that up to the dress rehearsal unless its on the same day, but as you can see cant do the performance which is a bit of a poo.

[Terpsichore]

Michelle_Richer now that you have mentioned your class at ENB I remember talking to you in the canteen just before Annemarie came down to escort us to the studio. I was a bit apprehensive because the "Improvers" class is more advanced than my usual class. I survived it and learned something however.

 

If as is likely I have to move to London for work in the next year or so I shall be looking for a similar class there. I would love to attend ENB's if I am good enough but it is a big "if".

 

I hope you are enjoying Christmas by the way. I am appreciating Don Quixote rather more than I did the live streaming http://jelterps.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/por-favor-don-quixote-streamed-to.html