So, You Want to Learn to Dance? - but....uh...I'm an adult....

[Anjuli_Bai]

I always had several adult ballet classes in my schedule of teaching.   I found adults particularly gratifying to teach - they were so appreciative!  One group in particular stayed for over 30 years!   They progressed to pointe work and performing.

 

In addition to all the things mentioned by Balleteacher above......

 

Most adults spend their day involved in working for and/or caring for other people.  This is especially true of women.  For many of them they haven't had the time to keep an activity for themselves.  They begin to lose sight of themselves as a person who can (and should) still learn - add to one's store of capabilities. 

 

To see the look on the face of an adult, usually female, who has spent her day being and doing for others - to see her face light up as a pirouette goes well, or a leg is more steadily held, or a dance sequence comes together - not only makes her day - but as the teacher - made my day.  

 

This was 90 minutes when she didn't have to think about other problems, this was 90 minutes - a couple of times a week - or only just once a week - that was strictly "her" time.  For many it filled in the gap of regret of having given up dance class as a teen or fulfilled a desire of childhood that had never been realized.

 

For all of them it kept them refreshed in the knowledge that they could still learn, acquire a skill, move beyond preconceived capabilities in an area that had nothing to do with their usual daily round of working, caring, driving, pleasing, others.  I saw some who when they first arrive were too shy to wear a leotard and tights, too shy to look in the mirror, assumed everyone else was better, more gifted, etc., end up actually wanting to perform.  And, actually did perform and loved it.

[Michelle_Richer]

Hi Janet

Thank you for your comment but I’m not quite sure how to take it, we are all unique in some way, I had hoped mine would have been seen in terms of commitment and determination to succeed in ballet. Rather than being a lucky rich bitch, I know you didn’t use those words but that could be an interpretation. Like Lin, I have now finished my normal working life after a very successful long term career, so that’s how I have the time. As for the money, I’m really not rich but I am reasonable comfortable solely from my retirement income from my long term career.

 

Lin

I know many people would not be able to keep up with my schedule, but that’s just me, I have an appetite to progress and in particular to dance. As I do so much ballet my body is pretty well conditioned to that and doesn’t require recovery time, I guess it perpetually in a state of readiness. I would have thought that type of fitness level was a positive attribute. I also realise the more I do, the more risk I have of injury, having sustained minor injuries in the past I’m always mindful of this. There is only one way to guarantee my ballet to be free of injury, is to not do it, for me that’s not an option.

 

Moomin

Whilst I kind of agree with your statement “I would agree with you lin that it is obvious to everyone in a class who is a beginner and who is not! To me it is mainly about the grace, control and positioning” there is also whole lot missing too, and that’s preparation, spacial awareness, timing, synchronism with other dancers as well as continuous elegant flow of movement, particularly for performing, that goes along way towards presentation. Especially as my main interest as a dancer is performing ballet from the classics.

 

Balleteacher

Yes I agree ballet should be fun and enjoyment, I would also say work should too, especially as you spend the majority of your conscious life doing it, that certainly was true for me, so in that context I guess I was lucky. As for a test of endurance, that is just a means to an end for me, and if you haven't gathered it already I will always go that extra mile to achieving my goal.

I like your comment “adult ballet should be a source of stress relief as opposed to a source of stress”, I still get butterflies just before I go on stage and think hope I will remember everything, the mind is the problem, the body should know what it has to do after umpteen rehearsals, but sometimes you think just bit too much and the mind blanks for a second, before regaining the thread.

I also agree that “Adult ballet can also be a good social experience”, I'm meeting a lot of the same dancers at each of my repertoire workshops but also I am contributing to that regular core through publicise events on this forum or just passing the word around the different classes I attend, consequently you build a strong body of dancers to make these events viable and get to meet a lot of your regular dancing friends too.

 

Anjuli

I love your last post, especially the last paragraph. For me, I have no ties, my partner died some time ago and my little dog died last year, and as my working life is over (sounds better than the R word), so I guess I'm well immersed in ballet now. I think for me it has gone beyond just a hobby in the normal sense of the word, possibly to a lifestyle choice, as mentioned in another thread on this forum. For me that’s unimportant, its just something I need to do and get on with.

[Jan McNulty]

Hi Janet

Thank you for your comment but I’m not quite sure how to take it, we are all unique in some way, I had hoped mine would have been seen in terms of commitment and determination to succeed in ballet. Rather than being a lucky rich bitch, I know you didn’t use those words but that could be an interpretation. Like Lin, I have now finished my normal working life after a very successful long term career, so that’s how I have the time. As for the money, I’m really not rich but I am reasonable comfortable solely from my retirement income from my long term career,

 

Michelle,

 

I would like to state that I in no way implied the words you have chosen to use in your second sentence and indeed I did not imply that everyone is not unique.  However you have got to admit that your dance-related workload is extraordinarily high and that most people cannot, or possibly even do not want to, achieve that number of lessons/workshops/summer schools/amateur ballets spread all over the country. 

 

BTW, I too had a long term successful career that I chose to escape early from when the chance arose. 

[Tulip]

Can I just mention my daughter is young and in full time training, she is at peak fitness. However it is drummed into them that during short holidays it is important to rest. Also MY interpretation reading Janet's comments was not about having lots of money etc. it is fantastic that you are enjoying your ballet now you have more time, it is also clear that it is a passion and a need to dance, a thirst that needs quenching, however I am sure that there is a need to rest too, even the young professional as you know need to rest.y view of a beginner is someone who is just learning to dance, who is just at the beginning. However of a person has been dancing for two years and is still not very good, then to me they are not a beginner just that they are not very good. Perhaps they are just enjoying themselves and enjoying the expressiveness of dance.

[2dancersmum]

Michelle I think you should take the description 'unique' as a compliment as I think it is simply that you do not fall into any of the categories for adult ballet students. I think you have hit the nail on the head when you describe ballet for you as a lifestyle choice rather than just a hobby. I am glad you get so much enjoyment from your ballet experiences and long may it continue.

[Anjuli_Bai]

The intent of this thread - and as the author I think I can speak for it - was to hopefully engage the attention of an adult who had recently joined or was thinking about joining a beginner ballet class. 

 

Such a person usually has questions that he/she hesitates to ask or has never been in a dance environment and doesn't even know what to wear, what to bring, what a barre is for and other very basic stuff the rest of us take for granted.

 

I also intended for this thread to be a friendly entree, hopefully including a light touch of humor/humour, to be a safe place to ask those questions.

 

And, a place for others with experience to chime in to answer those basic questions and/or offer reassurance to such an adult.

 

This thread - and there are a number of articles still to come - was not intended to put forward  the complex lifestyle intent of any one person or to become about any one person.  I think those issues are worthy of a thread of their own. 

 

I would also like to clarify that....

 

This series of articles has appeared before on the "old" and now archived Ballet.co forum.  It caught the attention of the BBC (thus I assumed it might have some worth and perhaps be of interest to a newer readership.)  And, i did ask permission of the moderators of this forum before posting this series here. 

 

I hope something I've said here helps us move forward in welcoming those new to our dance world.

[Thecatsmother]

I get your point(e) Anjuli. So much of the teaching with adults is about building up confidence that it is ok to have a go and enjoy ballet. For beginners who have never danced in childhood, there can be a tendency to compare self to others in the class or even be put off by this process. Reading back through the thread, I wonder what this is like for new starters to read and whether there are questions that remain unanswered?

[Moomin]

Anjuli I love your writing, your description of an adult dancer made me smile, me to a tee! I look forward to my classes all week and you're right it probably is the only time I have to really concentrate on doing something for me.

As for information that I think would be useful for beginners/ returners to ballet;

1. How long does it take to feel like you are actually improving?

2. Can you do anything to speed up that process? E.g. practice at home/ other exercise/ specific strengthening exercises?

3. What should you wear?

4. Are there books/DVDs which people have found helpful?

5. How many classes should I do? What ballet method should I choose? What is the difference between cecchetti, rad, istd, russian etc?

 

These are just a few off the top of my head (just brainstorming, sorry if some have already been covered)

I'll leave the technical ones to the professionals but as far as clothing goes I found jazz pants or leggings with tunic good. Definitely nothing at all loose around the ankle as your toes will get caught. Try and get ballet shoes for the first lesson, it is very difficult to dance in bear feet and socks are very slippery to dance in. Be prepared to get quite hot and sweaty! If you want proper ballet wear there is not a great choice if you are not sylphe like! Just ballet have a nice short sleeve leotard which covers a bra nicely could probably even cover a sports bra. I find Bloch leotards are very nice too & the material quite thick & stretchy to hold everything in place! Mirella chiffon skirts are lovely as they are quite thick material to hide the thighs a bit and a flattering shape. They are one size though & I'm not sure how suitable they would be for larger than size 12.

I wasn't really prepared for how long it was going to take to see improvements especially as I had done a few years of ballet as a child. I really struggled with picking things up & performing quickly to start with, my brain couldn't process things fast enough! It took a good 6 months to feel I was getting somewhere and sometimes it was one step forward and two steps back! As I've got to an age where I have established a professional career it was seriously out of my comfort zone to be the 'worst' in the class and not know what I was doing!

Hope something there was helpful!

[Anjuli_Bai]

Questions from Moomin in the above post:

 

1. How long does it take to feel like you are actually improving?

 

Well, this seems to me to be very much an individual response depending upon the number of classes, the student's "equipment" and what one considers as "improving".  I think that even when one feels there has been no improvement - there has been some.  My experience is that it is not a smooth progression just as physical growth in children is not a smooth progression.  

 

It takes time for muscles to change to accomodate what they are being asked to do.  On the other hand, I don't think that a plateau means there has not been improvement.  And, I also think some of us are hesitant to admit we are improving - all too often we miss those small changes and only reluctantly acknowledge them when they occur.  We then find something else to be unhappy about. 

 

We spend so much of our lives being told not to give ourselves a deserved pat on the back - that it is too self indulgent.  Well, sometimes just making it to class is a cause for celebration. 

 

2. Can you do anything to speed up that process? E.g. practice at home/ other exercise/ specific strengthening exercises?

 

Not everyone wants to speed up the process - many just want to enjoy the journey.  This is true not only true of dance class but of many things we do.  How many times do we take on a project.....painting a room or painting a piicture at an easel or a sewing project, or planting a garden, or or or.....and say  "I can't wait to see this when it is finished!"  Yes, it is exciting to see a project come to fruition - but the doing of the project should be enjoyed, too. 

 

3. What should you wear?

 

You gave some very good advice on this.  Slippes should fit like a glove.

 

4. Are there books/DVDs which people have found helpful?

 

Watching dance and/or reading about it helps very much.  It informs and  inspires us.

 

5. How many classes should I do?

 

An excellent question - and often it  is determined by what is available, how much time and funds are available, - but generally speaking I would advise a beginning student to gradually add to the schedule to give the body the time to accomodate to the demands being made upon it.

 

 

What ballet method should I choose? What is the difference between cecchetti, rad, istd, russian etc?

 

Again, this is often determined by what is available.  As a rough outline...historically the Russian dancers were taught by Italian teachers such Enrico Ceccehetti and RAD evolved out of Cecchetti's method.   He did not, however, have a set syllabus or exams.  Russian dancers tend to move "largely" but there is more than one style to Russian ballet: i.e. Bolshoi, pre-Vaganova Mariinski and Vaganova at the present day Mariinsky as well as many other top notch Russian schools.

 

Some people like the idea of being part of a set syllabus whilst others do not.  I am one of those who does not.  After the first three years with the teacher with whom I began my studies, I sought other views and styles,  I've never regretted the many different teachers I was privileged to learn from.  It was like a wonderful buffet of dance food with many different flavors. 

 

I was most fortunate that this was available where I live.  All the above - is just one woman's opinion -- I know there are many other opinions.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Anjuli_Bai

[Anjuli_Bai]

One Teacher or Two

 

I encourage you to click on the link below - but then, come back here and post in any comments, questions, that might have occurred to you.

http://www.ballet.co.uk/magazines/yr_06/apr06/ab_doing_dance_15.htm


Edit: Page changed to give link to original Ballet.co article. Anjuli_Bai text as per first post added.

[tomuchtallent]

I am approaching 40 and would love to start ballet classes again soon.I haven't taken a real class for 20 years.My flexibility, posture,arms,coordination are still roughly the same. My major problem is turn out,it is completely non existent!When I was young it was quite good but now it just don't work!

In fact it is terrible!My question is,will it get better over time or is it to late to change?

[Moomin]

Mine's not great either. My hips took a but of a battering in pregnancy & anything which involves turning the leg in the socket is definitely more difficult than it used to be! When you say non existent, do you have any turnout at all? I'm not sure that you can increase the actual turnout but as you build strength you will be able to hold it at the maximum of your potential turnout which you are probably not at the moment. As long as you can turn out a bit I don't thing it is a serious impediment to doing an adult class, almost the entire class willbe working with some type of restriction and a good teacher will not push you past your limitations. You obviously danced quite a bit as a child so I'm sure you will quickly get back into it.

[LinMM]

Yes just standing in positions with some degree of turnout is one thing but being able to hold the turnout in the supporting leg for example whilst you do an arabesque with the other is something else!! But I too am sure it will come back to a degree if you had it before!

You are lucky to have retained your flexibility and posture so that's a pretty good start. If you've had a 20year gap but you are not that old still then it may take about 2yrs. How are you with jumping?

[tomuchtallent]

Hi moomin

When I sit in frog it's very good and my box splits is quite good without any excersize,great if I stretch over a month or so.The problem is when standing at a bar!my first position is about 90% and my 5th is just not worth talking about.when doing grande plié my turnout looks very good with my knees facing the sides.I just can't stand in positions!! So annoyed!

[tomuchtallent]

LinMM

I think my jumping would be ok apart from getting out of breath!I remember most steps and nice combinations

[LinMM]

Yes Ive built up a lot more stamina this last year....before I used to get terribly out of breath just doing a few changements and jumps to second!! with breathing like a 90 year old but this has got so much better.

I have to walk up a very steep hill to get to my house but now I can walk up it in one go without having to take a breather half way up!!

 

I agree with Anjuli that having more than one teacher is important as no ONE teacher can give you everything. Even if you might have a "main teacher" it's still good to experience other situations and see what works for you eg : one teacher may have a particular way of doing /teaching pirouettes which seems to work for you so you can then use that in other classes when appropriate.

[Anjuli_Bai]

I remember someone telling me that she couldn't take piano lessons because she couldn't read music.  And many have told me they couldn't take ballet lessons because they weren't graceful enough.....

 

Well, ...uh....er.....it is by going to piano class that one learns to read music (ok - Mozart was an exception) and ballet class to learn to move gracefully.

 

Whatever your turnout abilities - or jumping abilities are - is small potatoes to the joy and improvement you will give yourself. 

 

Go for it......------->

[alison]

I am approaching 40 and would love to start ballet classes again soon.I haven't taken a real class for 20 years.My flexibility, posture,arms,coordination are still roughly the same. My major problem is turn out,it is completely non existent!When I was young it was quite good but now it just don't work!

In fact it is terrible!My question is,will it get better over time or is it to late to change?

 

Well, I don't know about too late to change, but I'm managing a ballet class and have pretty lousy turnout these days, so it's certainly do-able.

[Anna C]

Sounds as if this is the one time my hypermobile hips would be an advantage. Shame the rest of me doesn't work well enough to do ballet! :-D

[Thecatsmother]

Given the talk of people starting ballet as an adult I would be really interested to hear their experiences of the first ever ballet class. What they thought, what they enjoyed, what they feared and what made them come back for a second. It might encourage others who are thinking about it to dip their toe (pointed of course) into the adult ballet pond. Just don't scare them off as we can do that later!! ????

[Moomin]

It wasn't an absolute first for me but I had a 20 year gap.

Thoughts at first class; I am so unfit, I will never be able to do this, my brain can't work fast enough to make my feet move but also I love this!

Fears; everyone will laugh at me looking like a hippopotamus doing ballet! I will fall over. I will not ever improve :-( (which of course I did but the first few months often felt like I hadn't)

 

I went back because I remembered just how much I loved to dance and how much I've missed it. I have always deeply regretted giving up and my older, wiser self was not about to let that happen again, even though I felt a bit embarassed by my performance and my wobbly bits!

[Fiz]

Does this exclude people who danced as children, Balleteacher? I can remember my first lesson very clearly. I'd waited six years to start ballet.

[RhodaKuc]

Like Moomin mine was a return after a long break (22yrs!!).

I had been taking my daughter to class and sat in the waiting room I would get a bubble of excitement watching people coming and going and remembered that I used to love this.

I asked her teacher if there was a class I could join - explaining at her quizzical looks that I had danced previously!

As there was no Adult class she put me in a class with older teenagers to mid-twenties (working on IDTA Classical Award - post grade 6/ pre intermediate level).

I duely bought my leo, tights and shoes and nervously went along at the alloted time.  I joined in with the exercises and was immediately swept along in the world of ballet music and terminology. I was so excited by the time I finished and when I got home it took at least 2 hours to come down from the high of rediscovering my passion for ballet............!

 

RK

[Thecatsmother]

I think all experiences are good to hear

[VBee]

Hello everyone

 

I’m new to the forum and wonder whether you lovely people could offer me some advice? Moderators please feel free to move this if you don’t think I’ve used the right thread.

 

So, I started ballet when I was 2 ½ after copying my older sister dancing around the house. My ballet teacher was a friend of my mum’s from school. I kept on dancing throughout school only about once or  twice a week and as a teenager used to help teach the little ones ballet. I took exams up to about grade 4/5. Then I went away to university. I tried out the dance society’s classes, however they only offered complete beginners class or advanced ballet (e.g. the equivalent of advanced 1 level). As the one was too simple and the other well above me, I inevitably gave up.  Almost 16 years of my life were spent going to dance lessons and then nothing.

 

So...Just over a year ago, at 26, I bit the bullet and decided to go back to ballet! It was a bit daunting after an 8 year gap and I didn’t know quite what to expect or how I was going to compare to anyone else in the classes. But I found a really good school that offered 4 levels of adult ballet classes, which meant I was able to find a level I felt comfortable with. Once I had gained back some stamina, flexibility, stability and the ability to get my brain to communicate to my feet what I was actually supposed to be doing, I picked up the courage to try out an exam class. And in about a month I am going to take my RAD grade 5 exam!

 

And here’s where I need your help/ advice. I’m feeling a bit scared about taking this exam. I’m loving being back at ballet, I have a new appreciation for it and it’s great to be in a class with people around my own age and ability who want to be there. But I really don’t know how I’m going to perform on the day. As I mentioned before, since returning to ballet as a fully fledged adult there are a number of things I have found more difficult than I used to as a child. It’s awful to think, but at 27 my memory just isn’t as good as it used to be and I’m not as steady on my feet when holding balances. I’m a bit worried that the nerves might get to me on the day and I’ll completely forget what I’m doing half way through an exercise or fall over when holding an arabesque!

Obviously I can’t do some things as well as when I was younger, but on a positive note I do have more confidence as an adult and I am not as self conscious or as easily embarrassed as I was as a teenager.

 

I also don’t really know what result to expect. Despite being corrected a lot by my teacher when I was a child, I always got good reports and my teacher often told my mum I was doing very well, however I was never sure whether this was just because my teacher and my mum were friends. As a kid I took BBO exams and passed with honours, but I don’t know what the equivalent is in RAD.

 

I wondered whether anyone else on here has taken exams as an adult and how they found the experience. Do you have any tips for me?

Do you think that  examiners look kindly on adult students who are just doing dance for enjoyment and a sense of achievement rather than as a career?

Also should I prepare myself for just a pass mark, or would it be possible to get higher?

 

Thanks

[LinMM]

I know how you feel I'm 65 and some things aren't what they used to be.....lets just leave it at that.....especially jumping!!

 

Well done for having a go at the exam!!

Here where I am the school offers BBO exams to adults of all ages ranging between about 25-65(I'm just about the oldest by one day in fact!!)

I personally don't want to do the exams just follow the syllabus to tighten up forgotten technique etc as my gap was 20years!! ......but many here do. And I don't know who gets the more nervous or tearful the kids or the adults!

But seriously it's fine to be a bit nervous but it's extremely unlikely you will mess up a whole exam....or fall over doing an arabesque.....maybe just doing a pirouette.....only joking!!

All the ladies who took the exams(Ive helped out on exam days occasionally) were convinced they were going to forget bits of every routine and the examiner would be scowling away!!

However they didn't !! And the examiner wasn't!! Though nerves may affect here and there so you may feel ...da** I could have done that a bit better.

One brave lady in an exam last November was so annoyed that she had missed a tiny bit out of an enchainement that she asked the examiner if she could do it again. The examiner said yes.....and she did it much more to,her satisfaction.

This lady passed with Honours!! I think everyone else got Commended. This was Grade 5 BBO.

They all said how lovely the examiner was then.......and again in the summer everyone thought the examiner....different this time.....was just so,encouraging and helpful.

Have you got the CD and a syllabus for the grade you intend taking.......and a list of questions on steps you might be asked to explain in the exam....this could be a great help for home revision etc. Or if you are friendly with someone else taking the exam perhaps you could get together to run through things or ask each other questions etc.

Really good luck with the exam.....let us know the date down the line so we can send out some Honours thoughts!!!!

[Jan McNulty]

Hello VBee and welcome to the Forum!  Thanks for sharing your experiences with us.  I do hope you will keep posting news of your progress.

[Fiz]

Good luck VBee!

[Anna C]

Welcome, VBee! :-)

[2dancersmum]

Welcome VBee.  Remember that what an examiner sees on the day is just a snapshot of what you do in class every week, but with an audience of one.  Try and remember to smile.  I'm sure you will be nervous on the day but once you start to dance and I am sure you will relax.  My DD took one RAD exam on her own and was so nervous she was visibly shaking but she did ok.  I think it would be more worrying if you were not nervous as a bit of adrenaline helps on the day.

 

re the reference above to a list of questions you may be asked in an exam - I don't think that is relevant for RAD.  I am a parent not an adult dancer but I do not remember my DDs being asked questions in a RAD exam and one DD took grade 5 just last summer.  Anyway, good luck.

[VBee]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for your encouragement.

 

LinnMM I'm glad to know that the ladies all found the examiner positive, and that there are other adults out there doing exams. I do wonder whether it's worth the fuss, but I'd like to test the water to get a gauge of where I'm at. Hadn't thought about how wobbly my pirouettes can be, I'll just keep my fingers crossed for those! I have got the music for the exam and have been running through it when I get the chance at home. As 2dancersmum mentioned I don't think we get asked questions in RAD, I remember in BBO we would be asked to clap rhythms or asked about the time signature of the music etc, I'll check with my teacher just in case.

 

2dancersmum, thanks for the advice about smiling, I'm the sort of person who wears my heart on my sleeve so I know it shows on my face when I'm not happy with how I've performed and especially if I mess up. Yet when I do smile it tends to relax me and make the dance flow more easily, hopefully the examiner will smile back!

[Legseleven]

You're correct that RAD exam candidates no longer ask questions about the steps, the meaning of the French terminology, the rhythm or time signatures etc, which I think is a pity. When I was doing RAD exams we were always asked 'theory' and music questions, with the Senior Grade exam being an absolute horror for music questions!

 

My DD is asked 'theory' and music questions in class. When I asked her RAD vocational examiner teacher why the questions were dropped from the actual exams, she advised me that because the RAD is a truly worldwide organisation, it became unworkable as candidates and examiner don't always speak the same language (although of course the examiner will know enough of the local language to conduct the exam).

[Ian Macmillan]

A wee item from BBC Scotland that might fit here:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24567818