Jan McNulty Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 7 minutes ago, Josephine said: Could this imply that the role will be danced by two dancers to represent the 'two distinct entities'?? Perhaps unlikely, but the idea just crossed my mind! But not unprecedented... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 In the first post here Capybara has listed some info which in fact suggests that it's only the big/small group dances that will be changed except for the Neopolitan .....at least that's how I understood that post. So it doesn't seem as if there will be ( thank goodness) any changes to the more original main choreography of the big solos and pas de deux work in this production as some people seemed to be fearing....unless I've mis understood that first post that is. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nina G. Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 That's my impression too LinMM, that Scarlett's involvement is limited to re-choreographing some group dances and that the rest of the ballet will remain the same (except Odette/Odile's tutu as the recent Muntagirov/Nunez photo shows) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 The problem for me were it to be two dancers instead of one......fine perhaps for some much smaller companies who may not have that many really strong dancers and need to avoid injuries etc etc ......is that this is one of the main challenges of the role...can they play these two different types of character really effectively. So for me hope it remains one dancer. Perhaps ....as in this new version supposedly Odette and Odile are actually entities created by Rothbart ( rather than under a spell by him) Siegfried will end up all on his own at the end ......or it has all been some weird magical dream! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 I don't think there will be two dancers. There are pictures of Nunez in print and online wearing both white and black costumes. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPD444 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 I am sure I will be in a minority of one but just like Giselle where the classical versions will still be danced and loved, the new version by Khan proved absolutely stunning would a complete rework of SL be universally rejected. As to the casting I hope Frankie gets a go at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 42 minutes ago, SPD444 said: I am sure I will be in a minority of one but just like Giselle where the classical versions will still be danced and loved, the new version by Khan proved absolutely stunning would a complete rework of SL be universally rejected. As to the casting I hope Frankie gets a go at it. There have been lots of reworkings of Swan Lake. I wouldn't object... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOSS Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 (edited) As the booking for the top tier of Friends opens on 20th February we only have to wait until mid February for such details of the casting as management deign to give us to become available which will only be casting for Odette/Odile and Siegfried. The first post says "an entirely new fourth act". Surely the words "new fourth act" must mean new choreography? Even if Scarlett intends to superimpose his ideas on the Ivanov version of the act it will look different and will not be the original Ivanov choreography in its pristine state.If he were going to stage the Ashton version of the act would not that be described as"restoring" the Ashton choreography? I am not going to speculate about what might or might not be changed in this new staging. I will simply say that there is plenty of scope for change.It really depends on how adventurous he believes Kevin is allowing him to be and how adventurous he actually wants to be. At the end of the day I imagine it it will be the paying public who decide whether or not this production is a success. After all the critics were not that complimentary about the Dowell production but the criticism was directed at the design not the text being danced, Given the longevity of the Dowell production we might be stuck with the new one for a long time. Here are a few possible pairings for the Neapolitan dance starting with the couples who danced in Tarantella last season Hayward and Sambe; Naghdi and Zucchett; Campbell and Hinkis and then of course there are dancers like Kay,Yudes and O' Sulllivan. Remember the Neapolitan Dance was made for principal dancers , the original cast was Alexander Grant and Julia Farron and it was still being cast at that level in the mid 1970's when you might have seen Sleep and either Collier or Jenner and Fletcher with someone like Taylor who was fast footed and rather good in it. As far as Morera is concerned I wonder whether at just turned forty she would want to dance it now that Cervera has retired? As far as Odette/ Odile is concerned Park made her debut very late in her career but I can't help thinking that if Morera had really wanted to dance the role she would have done so by now, if only at the last revival before the production was pensioned off. Edited December 29, 2017 by FLOSS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 11 minutes ago, FLOSS said: The first post says "an entirely new fourth act". Surely the words "new fourth act" must mean new choreography? I haven't yet received my copy of the Friends' magazine, but without knowing who wrote the article in question or its exact wording I'd say it's possible that there's some marketing/journalistic hyperbole going on. Most writers would be unaware of (or not particularly concerned about) the terror those words would strike in some quarters and are merely thinking that talking about "an entirely new fourth act" will generate interest. I recall vividly the furore on here caused by the post on the ROH's website which accidentally carried the suggestion that the designs for Fille were under review. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shya100 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 5 hours ago, Jamesrhblack said: OK, casting roulette. Here goes from me :- Nunez, Muntagirov Lamb, Hirano Cuthbertson, Clarke Osipova, Bonelli Takada, McRae Hayward, Campbell or Naghdi, Ball I would say so. Maybe not Naghdi and Ball though this time. Hayward and Campbell having a year on them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 5 hours ago, zxDaveM said: was that in the afternoon? I watched Claire Calvert in the evening... Yes sorry, I have seen so many Nuts I get confused! ☺️ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 27 minutes ago, Sim said: Yes sorry, I have seen so many Nuts I get confused! ☺️ I'm resisting the temptation to giggle in a puerile fashion. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beryl H Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 I'd be very surprised if Liam Scarlett didn't want to create entirely new choreography for act 4, although I've yet to see anything that is as lyrical as Ivanov's which mirrors act 2, these days everyone seems to want more drama and less dancing, since I also loved the soft longer swan tutu's of the previous version I'm not really looking forward to it, the only good things so far are that Rothbart will be a dancing role, and Ashton's Neapolitan Dance will remain! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 2 hours ago, bangorballetboy said: I'm resisting the temptation to giggle in a puerile fashion. Ha ha I giggled in a puerile fashion just after I had written it, but I didn't have time to write it again! 😂😂 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewCo Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 3 hours ago, Lizbie1 said: I haven't yet received my copy of the Friends' magazine, but without knowing who wrote the article in question or its exact wording I'd say it's possible that there's some marketing/journalistic hyperbole going on. Most writers would be unaware of (or not particularly concerned about) the terror those words would strike in some quarters and are merely thinking that talking about "an entirely new fourth act" will generate interest. […] The word “terror” made me laugh...but I have to admit that in my case it is kind of the right word. But I think your analysis sounds sensible. At any rate, it should help me sleep more soundly . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 Among the first soloist might Melissa Hamilton feature in the following season given she has recently danced the role during her two year sabbatical? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shya100 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, Odyssey said: Among the first soloist might Melissa Hamilton feature in the following season given she has recently danced the role during her two year sabbatical? I somehow do not think anyone but principals will get a go. It would be unfairnif she had a go over Nagdhi. Never know who will get injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 On 29/12/2017 at 15:40, Lizbie1 said: I haven't yet received my copy of the Friends' magazine, but without knowing who wrote the article in question or its exact wording I'd say it's possible that there's some marketing/journalistic hyperbole going on. Most writers would be unaware of (or not particularly concerned about) the terror those words would strike in some quarters and are merely thinking that talking about "an entirely new fourth act" will generate interest. Well, I have my copy in front of me now - a few things I noted are: The article was written by Jessica Duchen, who I gather is more a music specialist than a ballet journalist O'Hare says they "want it to feel like a big, opulent Swan Lake that could only be by the Royal Ballet" Scarlett will create "fresh dances to complement the classic choreography of Ivanov and Petipa" (Duchen's words) "Scarlett has created an entire new Act IV, based on the musical running order that was also used by Ashton" (Duchen's words) As to the ending, the full quote from Scarlett is: "I don't think Tchaikovsky dictates a happy ending. It's bittersweet, and it's tragic. The beauty in the music serves to amplify the tragedy even more." The corps will be in tutus, not long skirts (P.S. - I hope this is within the bounds of what we're allowed to reproduce on this site.) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 One other thing: the blurb on the website and in the back of the magazine says that Scarlett and Macfarlane "will bring fresh eyes to the staging while remaining faithful to the Petipa-Ivanov text." I hope that will steady some nerves. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 On 29/12/2017 at 12:26, Nina G. said: I wonder if Morera herself would still want to dance (at the age of 41 or 42) the highly classical and very demanding role of Odette/Odile. She said in an interview she gave that she would have loved to have done it, but doesn't think she will be given the opportunity now. I would imagine if she had the chance, she would grasp it firmly with both hands. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOSS Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 (edited) Forgive my pedantry. If Scarlett was being faithful to the Petipa /Ivanov text there would be no mention of a new fourth act. I don't quite understand how you can be faithful to the Ivanov text and change or abandon his fourth act. As far as the Petipa sections of the ballet are concerned if you change the choreography of the divertisements you aren't being particularly faithful to him either. Now there are plenty of things that you could do and at least be faithful to the local performing tradition such as restoring de Valois' peasant girl pas which is very close to what Ratmansky staged in Zurich. In fact apart from the Waltz his first act was very close to what used to be shown at Covent Garden before the Dowell production was staged. The old production with designs by Leslie Hurry seen in its last version on DVD still has a lot going for it. If you run across it on the internet you need to understand that the reason that Odette does not tell Siegfried about the lake full of her mother's tears is simply that Markarova did not do mime . If you watch closely you will see Dowel react as if she was performing the traditional mime. The other thing that perhaps you need to know is that at the time it was filmed Markarova was thought to dance the act 2 pas excessively slowly. Compared with what we see now it seems quite unremarkable as far as its speed is concerned. Edited December 30, 2017 by FLOSS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 I guess we'll just have to wait and see! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulff Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I agree whole heartedly with Floss's comments. It seems that my worst fears are about to be realised and that we are going to get a trendy "concept" version of SL, which while paying lip service to respecting the Petipa/Ivanov text - and for that matter the libretto too - ditches much of the choreography in favour of Scarlett's innovations. Much as I respect Scarletts own original creations I find it hard to believe that he will reveal himself as a better choreographer than Petipa or Ivanov. I think that the RB can no longer claim to be a guardian of the 19th century classics, especially since they seem to have made no effort to research the notations that are available in the Harvard collection. In future, in order to see productions closer to the original texts we shall have to look elsewhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMonk Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I honestly hate Swan Lake. I only want to know who will be in the cinema relay so I can't wait for that to be announced so i can decide if i want to buy a ticket and torture myself for 3 hours. On a side note of this "friends" magazine, i dont suppose anyone has a winter 2016 with mcrae on the cover you'd like to sell. I cant find it anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 hours ago, MissMonk said: I honestly hate Swan Lake. I only want to know who will be in the cinema relay so I can't wait for that to be announced so i can decide if i want to buy a ticket and torture myself for 3 hours. On a side note of this "friends" magazine, i dont suppose anyone has a winter 2016 with mcrae on the cover you'd like to sell. I cant find it anywhere. Then don’t go see it. It’s not rocket science Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 On 30/12/2017 at 18:53, FLOSS said: The other thing that perhaps you need to know is that at the time it was filmed Markarova was thought to dance the act 2 pas excessively slowly. Compared with what we see now it seems quite unremarkable as far as its speed is concerned. Would it be too much to hope that the running time is cut down by about 20 minutes, and that the first entrance by Odette in Act 2 isn't danced as though she has just got out of bed and is doing some lengthy s t r e t c h i n g exercises? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fashionista Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 On 12/30/2017 at 18:17, Fonty said: She said in an interview she gave that she would have loved to have done it, but doesn't think she will be given the opportunity now. I would imagine if she had the chance, she would grasp it firmly with both hands. It would be great if she was given this opportunity even now in her career - perhaps her "swan song" in principal role (excuse the pun!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fashionista Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Reading everyone's thoughts and conjectures most interesting and also worrying. Re "worrying factor", I refer to the conjecture that Odette/Odile may be taken by two dancers - I sincerely hope not!!!!! Good though that we will have short style classic tutus. Agree, that Ashton finale is superb but unlikely to be kept with Scarlett revising the ballet. Another Ashton gem is the beautiful and exacting Pas de Quatre which was interpolated in the Third Act (and performed by the RBS this summer). Again, highly unlikely to be revived for reasons stated above. I also do rather like the BRB's version when the character dances in Act 3 are taken by the various nationals' princess, ie Italian, Hungarian, Polish. It provides more opportunities for up and coming soloists in the company. Again, doubtful but one can only dream and speculate and hope we are pleasantly surprised !!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colman Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 The new fourth act will be an entirely mimed scene in the Faerie Court where Odette succeeds in a legal action for breach of magical contract by deception, followed by the two lovers heading off into the sunset while Rothbart is dragged off to magical prison. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I for one hope that they keep Odette's Act 2 mime; it gives some sense to the story if Siegfried knows from the start what he is dealing with, and his immediate determination to help her and be loyal. The RB is one of very few major companies who still do the mime, and I really, really hope they don't ditch it. Same with all the rest of the mime that was kept in the Dowell version. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuthE Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 On 29/12/2017 at 16:26, Shya100 said: I would say so. Maybe not Naghdi and Ball though this time. Hayward and Campbell having a year on them. Apologies if I have missed somebody suggesting this further up the thread, but my hunch is the opposite; I wondered if the reason Naghdi is not dancing the title role in Manon is because she is preparing her first Odette/Odile. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 But isn't she dancing Lescaut's Mistress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 She is, but that is a lot less to learn than the title role!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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