Sergei Polunin - news and discussions - cont'd

[penelopesimpson]

12 minutes ago, FionaE said:

What you say is true, that current RB dancers get lots of opportunities outside RB.  My point is that wasn’t the case (except in a very limited way - eg Adam Cooper as The Swan) before Sergei’s departure highlighted it.  Things have changed, and he was one of the catalysts for that change.

 

You really don’t know much about the current Sergei:

He has a starring role in a French movie coming out in September - currently in editing process.

He is already funding 4 children through dance school - name another 29 year old dancer doing that.

He has been appointed artist director of a new dance school in Russia.  Again name another 29 year old dancer doing that.  

 

The negativity and inaccuracy of the English press really does influence British people.  Such a shame. 

 

12 minutes ago, FionaE said:

 

Fiona, I admire your dispirited defence of your idol but you do somewhat miss the point.  I don't need the British press (whom I admire) to tell me about the terrible 'performance' I witnessed at Sadler's Wells.  I was there, I saw it for myself.  Similarly, Sergei himself posts images of his disfigured body for all the world to see.  These are facts, not reportage.

 

As for the rest, it is very laudable that he is helping children but I don't go to watch a performance based on the charitable nature of the performers.  Nor do I have any interest about a dancer supposedly starring in films.  For me it is not about hero worship; it begins and ends with performance.  I adore Ed Watson but I know absolutely nothing about him.  He chooses to keep his personal life, his political views and his emotional outlook private and that suits me just fine.   I follow the dancer.

#II

12 minutes ago, FionaE said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[penelopesimpson]

9 minutes ago, FionaE said:

 

As this thread is of no interest to you, why do you bother to comment? 

Perhaps because this is a discussion format and because BBB's laconic responses pretty much sum up how most of us feel about the artiste that used to be Sergei Polunin.

[bangorballetboy]

1 minute ago, FionaE said:

 

As this thread is of no interest to you, why do you bother to comment? 

 

Why do you think it's of no interest to me?  It's your persistent refusal to acknowledge why people have the feelings about SP that they do that I find tiresome.

 

As for the school of which SP will be artistic director, that'll be the school that hasn't been built yet and is proposed for an area of Ukraine that has been annexed by Russia.  Hardly something to crow about.  And I know plenty of dancers who have opened their own successful dance schools at ages much younger than 29.

 

[alison]

4 hours ago, FionaE said:

What you say is true, that current RB dancers get lots of opportunities outside RB.  My point is that wasn’t the case (except in a very limited way - eg Adam Cooper as The Swan) before Sergei’s departure highlighted it.  

 

Really?  You'll have to excuse me, but my memories are somewhat different.  I don't tend to pay much attention to dancers' "extra-curricular" performances unless they stick in my memory for some reason, but there were Kobborg and Cojocaru performing Giselle around the world, Acosta doing heaven-knows-what and where, Rojo was off guesting, various dancers appearing in Japan at various times, Bussell went and danced with NYCB for a while, Mara Galeazzi (and Sarah Wildor?) went and danced with Scottish (perhaps not so exotic, admittedly) ...  I'm pretty sure all those were pre-Sergei.

 

Quote

He is already funding 4 children through dance school - name another 29 year old dancer doing that.

 

I can't admittedly, but that doesn't mean they aren't - they could just be applying the old adage, when it comes to charitable work, of not letting the right hand know what the left hand is doing, as many do.  Plus of course it sounds as though Sergei's income is probably quite a bit higher than most other dancers'.  I do know that Alina Cojocaru used to supply ballet shoes to companies, or was it schools, in Romania, though.

 

[Tatiana]

I can't believe after that abysmal show at Sadler's Wells two (I think?) years ago he's managed to secure a run at the Palladium. (I know this thread is 8 pages long and many people have already said that - I've been away!)

 

Also, I guess the Palaldium doesn't care about ticket sales from the LGBT community. I feel pretty let down by anyone who chooses to stage him right now.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Tatiana

[FionaM]

5 hours ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

Is anything his fault, in your opinion?

 

No dancer is responsible for a scenery error.  

[alison]

Well, the implication from the wording as I read it was that he wasn't in the right place, not that any of the technical staff made an error.

[FionaM]

5 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

Why do you think it's of no interest to me?  It's your persistent refusal to acknowledge why people have the feelings about SP that they do that I find tiresome.

 

As for the school of which SP will be artistic director, that'll be the school that hasn't been built yet and is proposed for an area of Ukraine that has been annexed by Russia.  Hardly something to crow about.  And I know plenty of dancers who have opened their own successful dance schools at ages much younger than 29.

 

 

So sorry, I obviously misread your yawns as boredom with the discussion, rather than negativity to Sergei, which of course you are entitled to.

 

And yes the Crimean school is going to be an interesting story to follow.  The setting is absolutely beautiful.  We in the West have a narrow perspective of Russian / Ukrainian issues.  I for one feel I’ll-informed to comment either way on that.  The history of Crimea’s changing ownership goes back many centuries, most of the last 200 + years it has been part of Russia. 

[Fiz]

Doesn’t Alina Cojocaru also fund raise for Romanian orphanages? 

[FionaM]

32 minutes ago, alison said:

Well, the implication from the wording as I read it was that he wasn't in the right place, not that any of the technical staff made an error.

 

I can’t comment on whether he was in the right place or not, even though I was there.  Nothing appeared to go wrong to us in the audience.

 

The whole show, dancing and emotion imparted to the audience was fantastic.  The other principals alongside Sergei also contributed fabulous performances - Ksenia Ryzhkova, Prisca Zeisel and Emilio Pavan.  Wish you could have all been there, but it was sold out in 45 minutes of going on sale!  In fact I was only able to get a standing ticket, and was then able to upgrade a few days before to a stalls ticket, row 10 in the centre.  The best view ever.  There were queues of people wanting tickets on the night, including my spare standing one.

[BeauxArts]

Well, a friend of mine was at that performance; she also saw what Angela saw, ie: that he was in the wrong place for the scene change and that it was evident. She also felt he was not focused during  his performance, with a lot of technical sloppiness. He was also announced for the stage call which was attended by the public - his name was on cast sheets I believe - and then he pulled out of that commitment literally at the last minute, leaving Osiel Gouneo to step in without any preparation.I am not sure that kind of behaviour is going to be welcomed in many places, other than Munich where he has a free pass it seems as a result of his friendship with Zelensky....

 

 

 

[FionaM]

This writer explains it better than I can:

 

 

[Vanartus]

FionaE - you’re a scream! You really are now having us on! C’mon, you can drop the pretence now, who are you really? You’ve been rumbled! 

[penelopesimpson]

9 hours ago, FionaE said:

 

So sorry, I obviously misread your yawns as boredom with the discussion, rather than negativity to Sergei, which of course you are entitled to.

 

And yes the Crimean school is going to be an interesting story to follow.  The setting is absolutely beautiful.  We in the West have a narrow perspective of Russian / Ukrainian issues.  I for one feel I’ll-informed to comment either way on that.  The history of Crimea’s changing ownership goes back many centuries, most of the last 200 + years it has been part of Russia. 

Well, about ready for a change then -you know, explore other creative opportunities, that sort of thing

[penelopesimpson]

2 hours ago, Vanartus said:

FionaE - you’re a scream! You really are now having us on! C’mon, you can drop the pretence now, who are you really? You’ve been rumbled! 

You are either Vladimir Putin or Jeremy Kyle

[FionaM]

4 hours ago, penelopesimpson said:

You are either Vladimir Putin or Jeremy Kyle

 

Actually I was as taken in by English press negativity about Sergei as many of you are.  I was put off by the stories of drugs and scared by the tattoos -why scared?  They are not on my body.  

 

And then I saw him dance on YouTube (clips from all the classics including Macmillan and Ashton), the Dancer movie, Take Me To Church.  I spent hours online.  Oh my word what had I missed.  And now I have seen him dance live too.  I cannot explain in words

Edited May 15, 2019 by FionaE
Not finished

[FionaM]

4 hours ago, penelopesimpson said:

You are either Vladimir Putin or Jeremy Kyle

 

I studied ballet with Merle Park, Shirley Grahame, June French, Mignon Furman amongst others.  I doubt very much that Jeremy Kyle or Putin did!

[Estreiiita]

I myself am looking forward to see Polunin on the 1st of June. I saw him  first about 10 years ago, when he still was a young boy from the ROH and Johan Cobborg brought him along with the others for Verdensballet concerts to Denmark. His willingness to dance impressed me a lot. Then I had a chance to see him in " Giselle" together with Natalia Osipova in La Scala ( I liked Natalia more than him) and later I saw both Natalia's programme where Sergei was engaged and Sergei's programme with Natalia's participation ( again, Natalia was superb everywhere but after watching Sergei's back for a long time while he was just sitting on the big ball, I became to wonder if I should ever see him again). So actually I wasn't much into him, and I don't fancy tattoos either. I didn't initially plan to buy tickets for his Palladium concerts. Why did I change my mind? Well, somehow after reading different interview and articles about him, I got more interested in watching him dance again. "Rasputin" piece was an additional plus for me to buy the ticket - I want to see how will Sergei depict the personality of this ominous figure in his dance. He seems to be very sincere about his doings. And I believe it's up to him what does he do with his body, even if he prefers to put a Putin face on it. IMHO the art is above politics.

 

[penelopesimpson]

Putin has no need to study.  He is a natural.

 

Been thinking about the British press.  By and large they have been remarkably indulgent to Sergei and are largely responsible for the 'bad boy' image that he has traded off for years.  Sure, the dance critics have been less kind but how else are they to describe Project Polunin?  I think he has constructed a whole image from the press and should thank them.  He will soon be the oldest bad boy in town.

[Sophoife]

Polunin left the RB in January 2012, and @FionaE suggests he was stifled, the RB wasn't allowing people out to guest, etc. As @alison said earlier, that's not accurate.

 

Just down here with Australian Ballet, we've had Kobborg and Cojocaru for Manon (I think their last one together?), Benjamin, Fonteyn a gazillion times, McRae, Galeazzi, Ashmole...and more, all pre-2012. All these are off the top of my head, if I did some actual research I know there would be many more 

 

I suggest, dear Fiona, that you apply your research skills before making another such sweeping statement. 😉

[penelopesimpson]

I think we get too hung up on Polunin's Putin tattoo.  For me, it is not who - it could be Peter Rabbit or Peter the Great - it is the fact that a dramatic artiste despoils his body(his choice) and his art (my choice not to see him).

[Sim]

FionaE, I really don't appreciate your patronising suggestion that we have been 'taken in' by the British press.  Polunin has largely been the architect of his own reputation post-RB.  Don't forget about social media.....his rants against gay men and overweight people were written by him, not the British press.  Believe me, a lot more people read about him on Instagram and other social media than they do in the press.  As Penelope says, he has had a largely positive portrayal here, except when he presents poor ballets, at which point the press will say so.  To suggest that Polunin has acquired a negative reputation because of inaccurate representation in the British press is manifestly untrue.  

[FionaM]

43 minutes ago, Sim said:

FionaE, I really don't appreciate your patronising suggestion that we have been 'taken in' by the British press.  Polunin has largely been the architect of his own reputation post-RB.  Don't forget about social media.....his rants against gay men and overweight people were written by him, not the British press.  Believe me, a lot more people read about him on Instagram and other social media than they do in the press.  As Penelope says, he has had a largely positive portrayal here, except when he presents poor ballets, at which point the press will say so.  To suggest that Polunin has acquired a negative reputation because of inaccurate representation in the British press is manifestly untrue.  

 

Apologies.  I didn’t mean to be patronising to you or any particular person on here or elsewhere.  A lot of the responses I’ve had on here have been quite rude to me.  I’ve tried to remain polite.     

 

I realise he is a deeply complicated person and possibly quite immature (viz. rants on Instagram).   I have a different interpretation of the Instagram quotes you mention, as explained by Sergei himself in subsequent interviews.  He is very aware that he has damaged his public persona and commercial opportunities.  I believe he felt Instagram is a not very serious place and they he could have a laugh without consequences.  I’m sure he sees his friends using social media that way.  Sadly that turns out not to be true for public figures, and he is the only one suffering because of his own actions.

 

As I understand it, his comments about fat people, were a misunderstood use of language to encourage people to exercise more.  Well I know I need to!   His comments about homophobia were about him not liking seeing two men kissing publicly.  I don’t like seeing any snogging male/female/whatever combination publicly, so I agree with him there. and also about men wearing pointe shoes and wanting to dance female ballet roles.  I’m sure that could be a whole separate forum discussion.  Not sure the general public (oh dear another sweeping statement) is ready for the corps de ballet of swans at RB to be a mix of male and female dancers.  Discuss.

[FionaM]

1 hour ago, Sophoife said:

Polunin left the RB in January 2012, and @FionaE suggests he was stifled, the RB wasn't allowing people out to guest, etc. As @alison said earlier, that's not accurate.

 

Just down here with Australian Ballet, we've had Kobborg and Cojocaru for Manon (I think their last one together?), Benjamin, Fonteyn a gazillion times, McRae, Galeazzi, Ashmole...and more, all pre-2012. All these are off the top of my head, if I did some actual research I know there would be many more 

 

I suggest, dear Fiona, that you apply your research skills before making another such sweeping statement. 😉

 

I didn’t suggest he was stifled, Sergei said so ‘the artist in me was dying’.  He wasn’t being let go to take on other challenges that he wanted.  And I suspect, he had a family immature way of communicating that with RB management at the time, which wouldn’t have helped.

 

Regarding research, I have looked into the names you mention and after discounting performances with RB tours to Australia:

-Kobborg and Cojocaru appeared with Australian Ballet in 2014.  (After Polunin).  Both had left the RB under a black cloud in 2013.

-Galeazzi performed in a Gala in 2016, after retiring from the RB in 2013.

-McRae is Australian, you’d expect him to be allowed to dance in his home country.  Although it has been very occasional. 

-David Ashmole was actually a principal of the Australian Ballet company for 10 years

 

but I do take your point that there were some guesting appearances allowed before Polunin.  Though I will say they were strictly limited in number and to only the most prestigious dancers, eg Bussell.

 

 I’m sure Sylvie Guillem can describe how much a fight it was for her to be allowed to do so.  Wasn’t this the reason she left Paris  Opera Ballet?  I seem to remember her being similarly vilified at the time.  

 

The ballet world has become much more flexible, as have the RB under KoH, and not only because of Polunin.   We, the audience, are certainly benefitting.  I hope you are too in Australia.

 

[alison]

6 minutes ago, FionaE said:

but I do take your point that there were some guesting appearances allowed before Polunin.  Though I will say they were strictly limited in number and to only the most prestigious dancers, eg Bussell.

 

Really?  I don't have facts and figures, as I originally said (do you?), but I'd have said there were quite a few, not only "prestigious" ones, and not only principals.  Where on earth would one find a comprehensive list of RB dancers who've guested elsewhere?  Possibly some ultra-keen ballet fan, but I wouldn't have any idea where to look.

[bridiem]

30 minutes ago, FionaE said:

 

Apologies.  I didn’t mean to be patronising to you or any particular person on here or elsewhere.  A lot of the responses I’ve had on here have been quite rude to me.  I’ve tried to remain polite.     

 

I realise he is a deeply complicated person and possibly quite immature (viz. rants on Instagram).   I have a different interpretation of the Instagram quotes you mention, as explained by Sergei himself in subsequent interviews.  He is very aware that he has damaged his public persona and commercial opportunities.  I believe he felt Instagram is a not very serious place and they he could have a laugh without consequences.  I’m sure he sees his friends using social media that way.  Sadly that turns out not to be true for public figures, and he is the only one suffering because of his own actions.

 

As I understand it, his comments about fat people, were a misunderstood use of language to encourage people to exercise more.  Well I know I need to!   His comments about homophobia were about him not liking seeing two men kissing publicly.  I don’t like seeing any snogging male/female/whatever combination publicly, so I agree with him there. and also about men wearing pointe shoes and wanting to dance female ballet roles.  I’m sure that could be a whole separate forum discussion.  Not sure the general public (oh dear another sweeping statement) is ready for the corps de ballet of swans at RB to be a mix of male and female dancers.  Discuss.

 

I really don't care what his opinions are, or whether or not I or anyone else agrees with them. He is clearly immature and troubled, and I just wish he would stop leaving himself open to criticism. (This applies to a lot of immature 'celebrities' who find themselves in the public eye.) The only thing I can judge him on are his dancing and his artistic choices; the former used to be magnificent but from what I've seen has deteriorated noticeably, the latter are from what I've seen highly questionable.

[bridiem]

8 minutes ago, FionaE said:

I’m sure Sylvie Guillem can describe how much a fight it was for her to be allowed to do so.  Wasn’t this the reason she left Paris  Opera Ballet?  I seem to remember her being similarly vilified at the time.  

 

 

Yes; and she joined the Royal Ballet...

 

[Fiz]

Neither did Ms Guillem make bizarre statements on social media or in the press. 

[Jane S]

Neither did she join the Royal Ballet, did she? - I remember her being listed as a principal guest artist, which presumably left her free to dance elsewhere as she wished.

[bridiem]

51 minutes ago, Jane S said:

Neither did she join the Royal Ballet, did she? - I remember her being listed as a principal guest artist, which presumably left her free to dance elsewhere as she wished.

 

That's true. And I'm sure that if Polunin had stayed, he could have negotiated a similar arrangement in due course. He had the talent. And I wish he had done that.

[Naomi M]

Cojocaru and McRae have guested in Tokyo Ballet's Ashton The Dream in 2007.  Although McRae was a substitute to the injured Kobborg, he was still a soloist then.

 

We have a lot of Royal Ballet dancers guesting in Japan,  in 2006 Cojocaru and Bonneli has guested in National Ballet of Japan's Cinderella. Cojocaru, Kobborg, McRae, Benjamin, Bussel, Cope, Rojo have all guested here before Polunin getting prominent.  Sergei Polunin has guested in Noriko Kobayashi Theatre's Nutcracker in 2010.

 

Of course I have heard that many dancers not being able to guest because the company does not permit them, but it is not only RB, it happens more or less in other companies too. 

[Lizbie1]

31 minutes ago, Naomi M said:

 

Cojocaru and McRae have guested in Tokyo Ballet's Ashton The Dream in 2007.  Although McRae was a substitute to the injured Kobborg, he was still a soloist then.

 

 

And I saw them guesting at the Bolshoi in 2004 or 2005.

 

As Bridiem suggests, greater freedom to pursue guesting opportunities tends to come with seniority; but until they reach a contractual arrangement which allows for regular guesting, I can’t see that it’s unreasonable for an employee to prioritise their day job. Polunin decided that such constraints weren’t for him: that’s fine, it was his decision, but I don’t see why others should be expected to see the RB as being at fault in all this - on the contrary, in other respects one might consider Polunin to have been excessively indulged during his time there.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Lizbie1

[Tatiana]

3 hours ago, FionaE said:

 

Apologies.  I didn’t mean to be patronising to you or any particular person on here or elsewhere.  A lot of the responses I’ve had on here have been quite rude to me.  I’ve tried to remain polite.     

 

I realise he is a deeply complicated person and possibly quite immature (viz. rants on Instagram).   I have a different interpretation of the Instagram quotes you mention, as explained by Sergei himself in subsequent interviews.  He is very aware that he has damaged his public persona and commercial opportunities.  I believe he felt Instagram is a not very serious place and they he could have a laugh without consequences.  I’m sure he sees his friends using social media that way.  Sadly that turns out not to be true for public figures, and he is the only one suffering because of his own actions.

 

As I understand it, his comments about fat people, were a misunderstood use of language to encourage people to exercise more.  Well I know I need to!   His comments about homophobia were about him not liking seeing two men kissing publicly.  I don’t like seeing any snogging male/female/whatever combination publicly, so I agree with him there. and also about men wearing pointe shoes and wanting to dance female ballet roles.  I’m sure that could be a whole separate forum discussion.  Not sure the general public (oh dear another sweeping statement) is ready for the corps de ballet of swans at RB to be a mix of male and female dancers.  Discuss.

 

 

Mods, can we please not have people excusing homophobia in this forum? I like this community a lot (most of the time) and I'd like to continue to enjoy it without my identity being put up for debate.