Audience Behaviour

[TSR101]

6 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

£15 for Moët (brut NV), £18 for Ruinart (brut NV)

 

This is what is used to be - however when I attended Nabucco a week or so ago, they no longer had glasses of Ruinart on the menu - only bottles. Moet is now £18 and upwards. I imagine they get better margins on this, given Moet is a cheaper champagne. 

 

3 hours ago, Sim said:

I think when someone is repeatedly switching on their mobile phone when being asked not to several times, then drinking (I don’t care if it’s water or wine) from glasses, then holding their phone up and taking a photo, that it’s entirely right that they should be asked to behave in a way that’s considerate to those around them.  They must have felt unable to do this, so didn’t come back.  I wouldn’t think it was because they were reprimanded;  the usher was very polite…it was hardly a reprimand. 

 

Whilst I would of course prefer they didn't turn their phone on and off and they aren't more important than other audience members that doesn't take away from the fact that this thread can be a bit harsh on what are relatively minor indiscretions of people trying to have a nice time and people unused to how things are done. I think the idea that it would ruin the evening is a bit much unless they were literally holding out/up a bright screen for long periods at a time, and constantly taking pictures/filming. If the ballet/opera is good, I tend to be rather too involved in it to care about minor distractions myself.

 

Tutting at them is quite passive aggressive, particularly if they were already feeling out of place in the opera house (many first timers/newbies do feel this way and they don't seem from description to be regulars). "when someone is repeatedly switching on their mobile phone when being asked not to several times" - the comment of yours I was replying to, did not say they continued to use their phone after not being asked too, just after being tutted at.  

 

Sorry but "the usher leaned in and spoke quite sternly " and "the usher was very polite…it was hardly a reprimand" - are not compatible. If they usher spoke sternly and politely (as they would have a right to do), it was a reprimand. 

 

If we want opera and ballet to thrive, we need continue to attract new audiences - the old audiences can't live forever, I just think we therefore need to be welcoming and forgiving on minor issues. 

[Shade]

TSR101 - I think new audiences are essential or this great art form will die out but surely if there are certain guidelines like not leaning forward and blocking the view of others or talking  over the performance they should be complied with. Bringing drinks in glasses into the auditorium is also a safety issue. 
 

Consideration for others seems to have suffered over the course of the pandemic more generally I think.

 

[Rob S]

1 hour ago, TSR101 said:

 

If we want opera and ballet to thrive, we need continue to attract new audiences

....that can last an hour without looking at a phone

[Lizbie1]

1 hour ago, TSR101 said:

This is what is used to be - however when I attended Nabucco a week or so ago, they no longer had glasses of Ruinart on the menu - only bottles. Moet is now £18 and upwards. I imagine they get better margins on this, given Moet is a cheaper champagne. 

 

There was Moet on sale for £15/glass on Saturday, I'm pretty sure. (I thought this was steep enough.)

[Jan McNulty]

1 hour ago, TSR101 said:

 

Whilst I would of course prefer they didn't turn their phone on and off and they aren't more important than other audience members that doesn't take away from the fact that this thread can be a bit harsh on what are relatively minor indiscretions of people trying to have a nice time and people unused to how things are done. I think the idea that it would ruin the evening is a bit much unless they were literally holding out/up a bright screen for long periods at a time, and constantly taking pictures/filming. If the ballet/opera is good, I tend to be rather too involved in it to care about minor distractions myself.

 

 

I thought most theatres still reminded people to switch their phones off before the start of the performance.  Does this not happen at ROH?

 

Mobile phones lighting up in a darkened auditorium are incredibly distracting (even if they are only lit for a couple of seconds) and could potentially be dangerous for the dancers.

 

Most theatres, these days, provide people with plastic glasses if they wish to take unfinished drinks into the auditorium.  Glass is very dangerous if it is knocked over and broken.

 

When new Sadler's Wells opened and people could take drinks into the auditorium in plastic cups an elderly friend of mine slipped on water from a glass that had been knocked over and she could have had a very nasty fall if the person behind hadn't caught her.  In the same theatre I have seen a glass of water knocked over as people were going out in the interval and it dripped into the orchestra pit.  The violinist it dripped on was not amused and how much worse it would have been if it had gone onto her instrument.  (Most of the orchestra had left the pit but she was checking on something IIRC)

[Lizbie1]

We all have different thresholds, and if pushed I would say that some people are too quick to complain - it sometimes appears that they're almost looking for an excuse to.  I'm more relaxed than I used to be, but now what mostly annoys is the lack of respect for other people.

 

I do understand that it might look like there is a kind of "secret code" to opera, ballet and classical music, but mostly it's as simple as taking your cue from the people around you - if nobody else is playing with their phone or whispering or whatever, then you don't either.  In that respect, isn't it the same as any other unfamiliar environment?

[Sim]

I think it's very patronising to suggest that new audiences could only possibly be attracted to a venue if they are allowed to drink, eat, chat, switch on mobile phones, block peoples' views, etc.  Most young people I see at the ROH behave impeccably;  it's often the older people who do not, as in this case.  So please don't make such assumptions.

 

And quite frankly TSR, it's not passive aggressive to make a small noise to ask someone to be quiet.  It's better than telling them off or shouting at them.  And for your information, I was only 'passive aggressive' when she held her mobile up and took a photo.  All I did was make a soft noise.  But hey, I apologise. Going forward I will let people commit their 'minor indiscretions' without saying anything or reacting.  Who cares if it's disrespectful to the artists who work so hard to entertain us?  Who cares if it's distracting for other audience members?

 

If you are happy to sit behind people when they are switching their phones on and blocking your view then that's your prerogative.  I want to get lost in what I am watching and not be distracted by mobiles and drinking and eating.  And yes, there are announcements at the beginning of each act informing people that the use of photography and mobile phones is not allowed.  

[capybara]

The lack of distraction from fellow patrons is one of the reasons why I choose (at no little expense!) to sit in Row A of the Orchestra Stalls, even though I can't see the dancers' feet, or at the sides in the Stalls Circle Row A (slightly cheaper and feet clearly visible). I want/need to immerse myself in what is on stage otherwise I might as well not be there.

I do occasionally fetch up in other parts of the House when I buy 'extras' and a fair amount of the behaviour which surrounds me is, well, inappropriate. Consideration for others is surely paramount here and that, sadly, is often missing.

[LinMM]

Nobody minds someone who may be not used to the rules but if told as politely and friendly as possible “ Look you may not realise it but when you lean forward I just can’t see” Or “ do you realise you are not supposed to video live  performances in the theatre” …….and they then continue to do it that’s just being bloody minded and childish. 
However I do find that the majority of people are absolutely fine and very apologetic especially about blocking your view. Luckily it doesn’t happen that much to me. 

Really it should be Ushers doing this job as long as have had decent training though!!  
Back in the 80’s I spent two years being a part time “usherette“ at the Royal Festival Hall. There always had to be one inside the auditorium and one outside at various door levels. When there was a certain Conductor on we were given strict instructions absolutely NO latecomers at all until the interval ( whereas usually you would try to slip people in at certain points) 

Usually too you would negotiate who was in and who out in which parts of the concert programme that evening but it always ended up in a toss up when he was on as nobody wanted to be outside telling people they couldn’t go in until the interval!! 

 

 

[Dawnstar]

2 hours ago, Jan McNulty said:

I thought most theatres still reminded people to switch their phones off before the start of the performance.  Does this not happen at ROH?

 

Yes, there is an announcement at the start & also before each subsequent act starts so, unless someone is hearing impaired, they have no excuse for not knowing. Unfortunately that doesn't stop the occasional selfish person.

 

I haven't (yet) encountered anyone really annoying at ballet performances but I was at a performance of Le Nozze Di Figaro in 2019 that was pretty much ruined for me by someone sitting nearby whose phone rang twice, who made a number of comments to their companion at normal speaking volume, & who coughed through one of the best arias. They appeared to be oblivious to the large number of people in the vicinity glaring at them in annoyance. Fortunately they left toward the end of Act 3 so we got the final act in peace.

[maryrosesatonapin]

6 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

Yes, there is an announcement at the start & also before each subsequent act starts so, unless someone is hearing impaired, they have no excuse for not knowing. Unfortunately that doesn't stop the occasional selfish person.

 

I haven't (yet) encountered anyone really annoying at ballet performances but I was at a performance of Le Nozze Di Figaro in 2019 that was pretty much ruined for me by someone sitting nearby whose phone rang twice, who made a number of comments to their companion at normal speaking volume, & who coughed through one of the best arias. They appeared to be oblivious to the large number of people in the vicinity glaring at them in annoyance. Fortunately they left toward the end of Act 3 so we got the final act in peace.

That's disgusting behaviour.  Especially during wonderful 'Figaro'.  My worst audience experience was at Sadler's Wells (can't remember which performance) where two Russian-speaking people in front of me both filmed openly with their phones throughout, and also didn't bother to rise out of their seats when other people were trying to get past!  (Actually I think they might have been Ukranian but I'm not sure.)  I did ask them to stop during the interval but they either couldn't or wouldn't understand English, and I also told an usher whom they ignored.

[FionaM]

It’s quite common in Russia (I don’t know about Ukraine) for ballet lovers to film in both the Bolshoi and Mariinsky, judging by the audience video clips that appear shortly after every performance on Instagram.  I have to say I would find anyone openly filming distracting as the screens are so bright.  Personally I can’t enjoy a performance if I am also filming (I tried once …. not in UK I hasten to add!)

 

At the Kaneko/Bracewell R&J matinee last year … I was distracted by a family of 4 alongside me … firstly by the daughters climbing onto their parents’ laps and then by the mother looking at her phone during the performance.  I politely leaned across the husband and tapped her on the arm motioning to her to switch it off.  I’m guessing she probably didn’t think it was polite and moved to their furthest away seat for the next acts. (Result! 👍)

[art_enthusiast]

5 hours ago, Sim said:

I think it's very patronising to suggest that new audiences could only possibly be attracted to a venue if they are allowed to drink, eat, chat, switch on mobile phones, block peoples' views, etc.  Most young people I see at the ROH behave impeccably;  it's often the older people who do not, as in this case.  So please don't make such assumptions.

 

Indeed, I second this. I'm in my early twenties and would not dream of filming/using my phone, whispering, eating/drinking or coughing during a performance (I held in a slight cough towards the end of Yasmine and Matthew's balcony pas de deux because there's no way I would interrupt the beautiful music - better to choke during the interval.)

The unpleasant people I had the misfortune to sit next to during the Osipova/Clarke performance on Saturday night definitely had a few decades on myself and my sister, and yet they couldn't seem to understand a polite "please don't lean forward". Clearly age does not bring the gift of manners to some people!

[Meetmeatthebarre]

1 hour ago, art_enthusiast said:

Indeed, I second this. I'm in my early twenties and would not dream of filming/using my phone, whispering, eating/drinking or coughing during a performance (I held in a slight cough towards the end of Yasmine and Matthew's balcony pas de deux because there's no way I would interrupt the beautiful music - better to choke during the interval.)

The unpleasant people I had the misfortune to sit next to during the Osipova/Clarke performance on Saturday night definitely had a few decades on myself and my sister, and yet they couldn't seem to understand a polite "please don't lean forward". Clearly age does not bring the gift of manners to some people!

 

I didn't read TSR101's post like this at all - more that newcomers to the ROH might not be aware of all the rules, especially as they vary between cultures and even between theatres - so that politely explaining that what they are doing is distracting might have more impact, and not seem unwelcoming. A tut assumes that the person knows what they are doing is wrong, that isn't always the case, and can be mistaken for hostility for other reasons. 

 

My mother had never been to a formal-ish dinner until her early 50s until I took my family out after I started working; she had no idea she had to wait to be seated rather than find a table herself and I hadn't anticipated the need to explain. She was upset when one diner tutted at her, wondering whether she was under-dressed, or (in a very ethnically homogenous part of the country) it was her being foreign; never would it have occurred to her that it was having to wait to be assigned a table! When I took them to the ROH for the first time with their only other experiences of the performing arts a few panto outings in a regional theatre, my father had a cough which came from nowhere and I cringed at the sound of a box of tic-tacs rattling. Coming from a place where snacks are permitted and perhaps even sold to be consumed in the auditorium, it never occurred to him just how distracting it might be - and he said later he thought it was the least bad option of coughing continuously or leaving the auditorium. (I made sure he was sat at the end of our block and had some cough drops from the front desk readily-unwrapped before the next act.)

 

FWIW, I think leaning forward is a difficult one, especially at the edges of the amphi where one seat away or the respective height of the patrons might make the difference between being able to do so freely and catch the best performance for yourself without hindering others, or really getting in the way. Plus when watching in the heat of the moment, I think it's easy to forget when attempting to catch the action. In those seats, if there is even a shadow of a doubt that I might get in the way, I usually turn to the people behind me before the performance. I'll offer to swap places if there's someone clearly shorter, and say to tap me on the shoulder if I ever block their view. Knowing that we're all in it together in trying to pinch a better seat for cheaper has definitely broken the ice, and led to some really interesting conversations!

[Dawnstar]

I'm glad everyone else enjoyed Swan Lake last night. I may have enjoyed it more if I hadn't spent most of it wanting to murder the man sat next to me, who divided most of his time between waving his hands around in time to the music & nuzzling his girlfriend. There was also whispering, manspreading, leading forward & an attempt at mid-performance photography. As I was at the far side of the stalls circle & he was between me & the stage, not seeing him was impossible.

[maryrosesatonapin]

Oh @Dawnstar, how rotten!  And was this your first Swan Lake?

 

[Rob S]

1 minute ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

Oh @Dawnstar, how rotten!  And was this your first Swan Lake?

 

 

Sounds more like it was his...and hopefully last.

[bridiem]

1 hour ago, Dawnstar said:

I'm glad everyone else enjoyed Swan Lake last night. I may have enjoyed it more if I hadn't spent most of it wanting to murder the man sat next to me, who divided most of his time between waving his hands around in time to the music & nuzzling his girlfriend. There was also whispering, manspreading, leading forward & an attempt at mid-performance photography. As I was at the far side of the stalls circle & he was between me & the stage, not seeing him was impossible.

 

I'm so sorry, Dawnstar. How absolutely infuriating.

[Dawnstar]

42 minutes ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

Oh @Dawnstar, how rotten!  And was this your first Swan Lake?

 

Oh no, I've seen 7 performances this run, so my first was Kaneko/Bonelli. This was my last booking though, so not ideal to end on an infuriating experience, and of course last night's leads only had the 1 performance so you feel you want to pay even more attention when it's a one-off.

 

40 minutes ago, Rob S said:

Sounds more like it was his...and hopefully last.

 

It was his girlfriend's first, because I heard him saying so in the first interval to a man who'd shushed them & stopped them taking a photo during Act I. Goodness knows how she concentrated on the performance with him all over her for much of it!

Edited May 11, 2022 by Dawnstar

[art_enthusiast]

4 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

I may have enjoyed it more if I hadn't spent most of it wanting to murder the man sat next to me, who divided most of his time between waving his hands around in time to the music
There was also whispering, manspreading, leading forward & an attempt at mid-performance photography. As I was at the far side of the stalls circle & he was between me & the stage, not seeing him was impossible.

I can also relate to this - thankfully not last night, but in a few other performances in this season: most notably the first Swan Lake of the run, with Yasmine Naghdi and the Scènes de ballet / A Month in the Country / Rhapsody triple bill on the 26th April.

In both cases, I had the misfortune to be sitting next to exactly the same man (what are the odds of that!) who felt the need to wave his hands around/'conduct' the performances from his seat (which is fiendishly annoying and very distracting when it's in your sightline), bob his head around to the music (how on earth does one do that during Stravinsky, of all things?) and even worse, actually hum at some points.

I understand and respect enthusiasm for beautiful live music, but is there a need to hum, move around and wave your hands in 'conductor' mode, when there is a highly skilled professional in the orchestra pit already employed to do this properly? I find it quite baffling that people believe this sort of behaviour is acceptable, as if they are sitting at home watching TV instead of in a public place.

 

Because this man was significantly older than me, I felt that I could not really complain or say anything, and when I did try he and his wife simply gawped at me as if they didn't understand a word I was saying, though I believe they both spoke perfect English.

I did briefly mention it to the usher in the intervals, giving their seat numbers, but predictably, nothing was done. Luckily I saw these performances again on different nights where I was thankfully not seated next to any disruptive attendees. But I understand how frustrating it is when it feels as if there's nothing you can do, and if you try anything you risk looking impolite, or being ignored completely.

[zxDaveM]

the hand waver eejit deserves a stern "do you mind!" and a very hard Paddington stare, imo

[San Perregrino]

Playing devil’s advocate for a moment, not everyone who comes to enjoy and benefit from the world class music and performance at the ROH (or any shared live performance) is in full control of their physical/mental faculties and an inability to sit/keep still can stem from a health condition. (This is where ‘relaxed performances’ can come into their own.)
I agree that behaviour that does not meet my expectations can be a source of frustration and, if I let it, can diminish my enjoyment of an evening. I am fortunate I that I 

regularly attend performances at the ROH and other theatres. The downside of my good fortune is that I experience all sorts of situations and behaviours over which I have no, or very little control and from which resentment can easily arise and indeed does. For example, my current “bête noir” is people who think that they have to drink a litre of water during a 40 minute Act, thus constantly & noisily screwing and unscrewing the tops of their water bottles, scrunching the bottles and slurping away. I’ll have another “bête noir” by next week no doubt.
So, after countless “ruined” evenings I have learnt that the best solution for me is to practice acceptance, patience and tolerance as far as possible. I use breathing techniques and mindfulness exercises which allow me to bring my focus back to the music and the performances onstage and in doing so the ‘nuisance’ can fade into the background or indeed disappear. These techniques don’t always work but my enjoyment of an evening is certainly improved. If necessary, a kind word can work more magjc than a tut tut or an admonishment. A word to an usher in the interval can often get results too. 
Last night I was at a sold out theatre. The photo shows the view from my seat when i arrived. I despaired. Management were sympathetic but were unable to reseat me. I resigned myself to a blighted night. The person in front of me slouched so that I could see perhaps 2/3 of the stage, the dialogue and acting was so good that I was soon fully involved in what I could see and so what was missing became less important. In fact a side wall mirror enabled me to sometimes see the actors when they sat down. Not a direct view but rather a unique one. Surtitles allowed me to follow the dialogue. It was not what I paid for, but being able to adapt to my circumstances meant that I came away having loved the performance.

 

[zxDaveM]

37 minutes ago, PeterS said:

...my current “bête noir” is people who think that they have to drink a litre of water during a 40 minute Act, thus constantly & noisily screwing and unscrewing the tops of their water bottles, scrunching the bottles and slurping away. I’ll have another “bête noir” by next week no doubt.

 

 

 

 

for me, it's those bottles with a 'nipple' on the top, to save you unscrewing the cap; these encourage loud sucky/slurpy noises, then then the crackle and crinkle as the vaccuum distorts the bottle shape, and finally, the crescendo of the air gurgling back into the bottle with more crackles etc as the bottle reshapes itself. Modern technology - pah!

[alison]

All easily avoidable by the careful drinker: you just need to keep sufficient pressure applied to the body of the bottle.

[zxDaveM]

1 hour ago, alison said:

All easily avoidable by the careful drinker: you just need to keep sufficient pressure applied to the body of the bottle.

 

perhaps they should print that on the label, a 'how to use' instruction - because no one seems to do it that way (especially the finale, of the air rushing back in)

[Lizbie1]

I don't understand why it's necessary at all, unless it's a very long act (I'm talking Wagner-length) or if there's a medical reason or a cough threatening. Can someone enlighten me?

[Fonty]

I'm afraid I have got to the stage in life where I tell people if they are irritating me.  Last time I was sitting side stalls, next to the aisle for Swan Lake.  Across the aisle, and one row in front, was woman who spent most of Swan Lake act 2 scrolling through her electronic device, and occasionally typing.  She was right in my eye line.  I did wonder about getting up mid performance, but thought that might distract the dancers (?) so I waited until the interval, shot across the aisle, and politely told her that she was really distracting me and could she please not do it again.  She stared at me open mouthed, as if the thought that other people might have noticed had never occurred to her.

 

Her seat was empty for the rest of the evening, but I had got to the stage where, if she had continued, I would have had no qualms about getting up and snatching the device from her.  Who are these people who have an expensive seat in the stalls, and barely raise an eye to the stage.  Why couldn't they just stay at home?

 

[Tango Dancer]

33 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

I don't understand why it's necessary at all, unless it's a very long act (I'm talking Wagner-length) or if there's a medical reason or a cough threatening. Can someone enlighten me?

 

I can't understand people who insist on eating and drinking though performances.   I mean unless you've got a cough or medical condition I don't think you need to eat or drink through the performance. It's not that long you're going to die of dehydration or hunger.  I save it for the interval and then get an ice cream.  

 

I think people think it's like the cinema where everyone stuffs themselves with popcorn and massive amounts of sweets and forget that it's actually a live performance.  

[Lizbie1]

1 minute ago, Tango Dancer said:

 

I think people think it's like the cinema where everyone stuffs themselves with popcorn and massive amounts of sweets and forget that it's actually a live performance.  

 

I'd go further and suggest some people think they're on their sofa at home, watching Netflix or whatever.

[alison]

23 minutes ago, Fonty said:

Her seat was empty for the rest of the evening, but I had got to the stage where, if she had continued, I would have had no qualms about getting up and snatching the device from her.  Who are these people who have an expensive seat in the stalls, and barely raise an eye to the stage.  Why couldn't they just stay at home?

 

 

I could understand the odd occasion where there might be some emergency, or, say, a work/personal situation which had cropped up and needed to have an eye kept on it, but surely it doesn't happen that often?

[bridiem]

4 minutes ago, alison said:

 

I could understand the odd occasion where there might be some emergency, or, say, a work/personal situation which had cropped up and needed to have an eye kept on it, but surely it doesn't happen that often?

 

In that case I would just acknowledge that that had to take priority and not go to the performance.

[Dawnstar]

4 hours ago, PeterS said:

Playing devil’s advocate for a moment, not everyone who comes to enjoy and benefit from the world class music and performance at the ROH (or any shared live performance) is in full control of their physical/mental faculties and an inability to sit/keep still can stem from a health condition.

 

I think it's usually fairly obvious though if it's someone who has mental or physical health problems & so can't they control their movements or they make noises involuntarily. It's very different behaviour to the majority of people who are clearly choosing to talk, check their phones, etc.

 

57 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

I don't understand why it's necessary at all, unless it's a very long act (I'm talking Wagner-length) or if there's a medical reason or a cough threatening. Can someone enlighten me?

 

The only instance I can think of when I've drunk water mid-performance (apart that is from one cough-related instance at the ROH) was when I was in a non-air-conditioned theatre on a day that the temperature was about 30 degrees. It was horribly hot in there. It was an improv performance so there were opportunities at points when the chairman was asking the audience for suggestions or during applause at the end of songs or scenes where I could have a quick mouthful of water without distracting anyone from anything important happening onstage.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Dawnstar

[Fonty]

5 minutes ago, bridiem said:

 

In that case I would just acknowledge that that had to take priority and not go to the performance.

 

Yes, that is what I would do as well.   If someone has such an urgent situation that requires them to keep their mobile phone switched on in order to check, then they should not be there in the first place. 

 

With regard to water drinking, I am embarrassed to say that I frequently get a very dry throat which leads to coughing fits during live performances.  I don't know what sets it off, I wish I did, and I do try to drink unobtrusively and refrain from slurping, I really do.  Sorry.