Siconne50 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Hi does anyone have any experience of Ballet West School dd would like to apply, wondering what the student accommodation costs & where it is etc? teaching standard etc thank you 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 If you search on "Ballet West" there is a lot of information already on the Forum covering these topics. I haven't got time at the moment to add some tags and links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 http://www.balletcoforum.com/forum/9-doing-dance/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) Here are 2 links to get you started. There are plenty of parents/students at Ballet West on the forum and I'm sure they'll reply. It's in a relatively isolated location near Oban. However this may be an advantage for 16 year olds living away from home. The school has a caring reputation and enters its students for competitions. My dd has loved their summer schools and will be applying. Edited October 14, 2017 by sarahw Grammar 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletbean Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 My DD also adored the SS. Location is stunning. Yes, a tad isolated but so very safe with wild deer trotting up the driveway. I know that many students use online supermarket shopping for their groceries etc. Without transport the hike back up the hill with shopping is challenging! There are shops in the village but like most village shops there is a premium to pay for the convenience. Oban is a short bus ride away. Accommodation:- Cabins (sleeps 3 or 4) on the drive as well as some students stay in the main house itself for the younger pupils. The older ones rent private accommodation within the village and walk to the school. We only have SS experience but as it has been mentioned there are many on this forum with children at the school who should be able to fill in the blanks with up to date info. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aballetlife Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 1 hour ago, balletbean said: Accommodation:- Cabins (sleeps 3 or 4) on the drive as well as some students stay in the main house itself for the younger pupils. The older ones rent private accommodation within the village and walk to the school. Pretty much everyone rents from Ballet West, there’s only a couple who haven’t plus it’s difficult to find accommodation in such a small village. As @balletbean said there’s 2 chalets and a flat in the main house. Everyone else then stays in/around the village in various houses and flats. Rent is £500/month wherever you stay. it also costs to us the washing machine and dryer!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 All4dancers I'm sorry to hear that. Do you think anywhere gives good pastoral care for US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All4dancers Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 10 minutes ago, sarahw said: All4dancers I'm sorry to hear that. Do you think anywhere gives good pastoral care for US? Yes definitely; the US she attends now is very supportive. The students have a tutorial each week where they can discuss any concerns with a member of staff and also there are designated pastoral staff. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 14 minutes ago, sarahw said: All4dancers I'm sorry to hear that. Do you think anywhere gives good pastoral care for US? I think you will see significant differences in the levels of support offered when you visit different schools for auditions. It was something I particularly looked at, and the different attitudes were very much at both ends of the spectrum. I personally feel that there is a higher level of challenge for 16 year olds living completely independently and living with a family or in boarding accommodation with meals and laundry done makes dance and social life much happier. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All4dancers Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 6 minutes ago, Karen said: I think you will see significant differences in the levels of support offered when you visit different schools for auditions. It was something I particularly looked at, and the different attitudes were very much at both ends of the spectrum. I personally feel that there is a higher level of challenge for 16 year olds living completely independently and living with a family or in boarding accommodation with meals and laundry done makes dance and social life much happier. I agree that there are differing levels of support but before dd went to Ballet West we were assured on more than one occasion that it was such a supportive environment which was simply not true. In my opinion where a school in such an isolated location takes on 16 year olds they have a duty of care. I stress that this is my personal opinion borne from personal experiences and accept that many will have more positive experiences, many of which have been written about on this forum. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwel Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 1 hour ago, sarahw said: Do you think anywhere gives good pastoral care for US? In our experience Tring has excellent pastoral care for US. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Thank you for sharing your experience All4dancers - this sort of information is valuable for all of us in the throes of applying. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siconne50 Posted October 14, 2017 Author Share Posted October 14, 2017 Many thanks for all the replies Ballet West will certainly be a school for dd to consider 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 I've been reading this thread with interest as it does raise some extremely relevant points. Firstly for a 16 year old (especially if coming from a non-vocational background) joining what is a degree course, where they will also be expected to do own shopping, cooking and laundry, it is a massive adjustment. Even if you have been dancing every evening and weekend nothing can really prepare you for the reality of getting up at 6.00am for what could be a 12 hour day. And spending your 'free time' washing your clothes and hoovering. There is no such thing as a school that is right for everybody. Time spent doing summer schools, workshops etc at schools you are thinking of applying to is really well spent. It isn't a totally representative experience of full time training but does give you a good feel for the place. The audition is not the time to be doing this, you will likely be thinking 100% about the audition. Do read the schools policies and procedures - ask to see them if they are not publicly available. No school is going to tell you that they have bad pastoral care or that they are unsupportive. But their idea of what is appropriate might be different to yours. This is especially true where many of the students are 18+ years old and legally adults. Ask them specifics such who your dc should approach if they have an issue, or how they would handle a particular problem. 16 years olds can be very bad at communicating both with parents and with the teaching staff and keeping a metaphorical eye on them can be difficult at a distance. Dance training is tough, really tough so its vital to get a good match between student and school. Good luck to all of you auditioning for US this year and wishing you happy landings. Happy to talk specific questions via pm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 To expand on the previous post I think that one question to ask is drop out rate. A very high dropout out rate at a school can indicate pastoral issues & high injury rates amongst other things. (I've heard of very talented students who have previously been in vocational lower school training being pushed too far, too fast both physically & mentally at some schools) Also the policy on speaking to parents. Whilst it is understandable that once a young person reaches the age of 18 schools cannot legally speak to parents about any problems or concerns some degree awarding institutions are also refusing to speak to parents of 16 year olds (even if the young person has granted permission). 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Picturesinthefirelight said: Also the policy on speaking to parents. Whilst it is understandable that once a young person reaches the age of 18 schools cannot legally speak to parents about any problems or concerns some degree awarding institutions are also refusing to speak to parents of 16 year olds (even if the young person has granted permission). Yes, this is correct, and also applies to some institutions with other funding methods too. There are some things that a 16/17 year old cannot reasonably be expected to cope with on their own - especially when pastoral care is next to non-existent. At an academic school, parents would be involved right through to the end of 6th-form and the same should apply to vocational institutions too, however they are funded. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcoom75 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 On 14/10/2017 at 14:56, All4dancers said: I feel i have to be honest and say that in my experience there is little or no pastoral care - very difficult if you are hundreds of miles away from your 16 year old dd and problems arise. However I'm sure many students pass through the school happily. I'm happy to share some of our experiences through pm. I would agree with this, My DD was only 16 when she started and did complete three years but since she finished she has made me realised how isolated and unsupported she felt, with some unfair and cruel criticism by one particular teacher. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon2 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Unfortunately this seems to be endemic at the schools. Once one of them brave enough to discuss their issues their friends and peers also more willing to open up about their experiences regardless of training location. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 In a very recent interview with Yasmine Naghdi, newly appointed principal at the Royal Ballet, she says that she nearly gave up ballet at 16 because a teacher (at the Royal Ballet School) kept telling her that she was no good. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 On 14/10/2017 at 09:25, balletjack said: Hi does anyone have any experience of Ballet West School dd would like to apply, wondering what the student accommodation costs & where it is etc? teaching standard etc thank you I am sure balletjack you have got sufficient information from others on the forum around the potential costs etc. The distance can be a real issue and travelling there for performances/visits adds further costs to the 3 years so take that into account. As the mother of a current 2nd year student at BW, I am satisfied with the pastoral care. When my dd had an injury last year, staff in the office booked her an appointment with the local GP and drove her there at very short notice. She was able to rest and still attend classes and mark things out. One of the physiotherapists that goes there also contacted me personally which became a good 30 min telephone conversation about my dd injuries and this was in her own time. Each year has a student rep who goes to scheduled staff meetings so if there are issues the students need to contact their rep and tell them about it. I do think that there is room for improvement and the mental health issue (especially around dealing with injuries and rehabilitation and responding to critical feedback from teachers) are two pertinent ones. I am interested in reading Yasmine Naghdi and others such as Sarah Lamb, Darcey Bussell, Melissa Hamilton talk about their struggles as students and how they had to build up a 'resilience' in such a competitive and subjective field and move on from setbacks. Really sorry to hear All4dancers and KCoom75 that your DCs did not receive pastoral care whilst at BW, it seems like there is still work to be done in this area...as a relative 'new' higher education provider they are still developing their support systems. The QAA report is freely available on the QAA website if people are interested: http://www.qaa.ac.uk/reviews-and-reports/provider?UKPRN=10042364#. As for the ballet training, I am absolutely satisfied with the quality of the training and the range of excellent and committed dance teachers at BW that have come from a range of training backgrounds and different nationalities. I would say that for my dd BW has been an excellent choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Thank you ravasmum - these personal experiences are so valuable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucinda Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 On 16/10/2017 at 04:34, taxi4ballet said: Yes, this is correct, and also applies to some institutions with other funding methods too. There are some things that a 16/17 year old cannot reasonably be expected to cope with on their own - especially when pastoral care is next to non-existent. At an academic school, parents would be involved right through to the end of 6th-form and the same should apply to vocational institutions too, however they are funded. I think it does depend on the individual teenager/ young adult. Not only in personality but some are far more resilient than others and also have better time management, organisation and life skills. The further dance education institution that my DD attended expected students (from the age of 16) to live independently. Their reasoning for this, was that it was to prepare them for the rigours of life as a professional dancer. Some students lived in student type accommodation, a few others (mainly young men) lived with a family but the majority lived in privately rented flats/apartments. For many (including my DD) they moved from one type of accommodation to another in their training, sometimes by choice, sometimes by necessity. It was obvious from conversations with my DD and visiting her, that some students were much better prepared than others for the challenges of living independently. Fundamental life skills such as preparing and cooking healthy meals, washing, cleaning, budgeting and navigating public transport were sadly lacking and this impacted on their physical and mental well being. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All4dancers Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 31 minutes ago, Lucinda said: It was obvious from conversations with my DD and visiting her, that some students were much better prepared than others for the challenges of living independently. Fundamental life skills such as preparing and cooking healthy meals, washing, cleaning, budgeting and navigating public transport were sadly lacking and this impacted on their physical and mental well being. I would agree with this and indeed my dd was one of the students that originally helped those who were less able to cope with fundamental life skills. However I feel the remote location of the school in question made life more difficult after she had become injured, particularly when she couldn't join tour. The staff at this time are understandably extremely busy and any student that is unable to tour is pretty much isolated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon2 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Regardless of how developed the young person's life skills are, how resilient they are and what experiences they have prior to living independently it can go wrong for any of them and the staff, regardless of their role have a duty of care for these young people. If the young person feels homesick, isolated from their peers, is injured, is questioning their choices etc they can start to feel low and their ability to cope with everyday situations can spiral out of control. Universities have established pastoral care teams, they may well vary in their standards but generally it is easy to access information and help. Vocational schools, in my experience make the right noises to tick the boxes but don't produce the goods. Those that shout loudest get attention, the quiet, low student struggling to cope is easier to ignore. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pups_mum Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 OI think there is a bit of a tendency for those used to living in an urban setting to view rural life with slightly rose tinted spectacles. I don't think it's necessarily easier or more difficult but it's certainly different and brings challenges that take getting used to and won't suit everyone. We live in a rural area and many people think it would be an idyllic place to live when they visit on a day trip or holiday and the sun is shining on our beautiful landscape. But there are of course downsides too and it requires a different type of resilience. Nowhere suits everyone, and I think you need think carefully about the pros and cons of any location. My DD had no problems with the practicalities of life at BW as she's well used to living in that kind of environment, but she's found it a bit claustrophobic at times. I didn't realise until she started is that she would have to share a room. The houses are very nice and well maintained - not like any student house I ever lived in - but I think lack of privacy can be an issue. Had I realised this from the outset I would probably have looked at alternatives. I could have bought her a little flat of her own in Oban and paid similar in mortgage and bills than her rent is costing, which would probably have been cost effective over 3 years, but it's a bit late now. Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course! Nowhere is perfect, and some places will be a better fit for some people than others so it's always hard to offer advise really. But regarding the specific issue of location for BW I would say that you need to try not to be seduced by the "chocolate box" views and consider carefully how your child will cope with the isolation, including the practicalities of life like shopping, and the difficulties of getting home if they need a break. Living somewhere full time is very different to just visiting and whilst it's very difficult to know how any individual will adjust, don't brush the daily inconveniences under the carpet because they won't go away, and for some people will become deal breakers. I have to say I wouldn't like to live in Taynuilt without a car! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballettaxi Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Students can feel isolated and alone no matter the location. Whether they are in the middle of a large city or a rural location. Would we be having the same discussion regarding pastoral care if the school in question were in London I wonder? For me I would say the pastoral requirements would have to be of a higher level in a big city than in a small village where the school is a key part of the local community. Taynuilt has a frequent train service to Glasgow and Oban along with buses to many other locations. Sorry if I've upset anyone with the above but whenever there is a conversation about Ballet West there are always concerns raised about its 'remoteness' - my answer would be don't audition if the location feels too remote for you. My daughter is in 1st year at Ballet West and has had nothing but support - Yes we had a few issues with her accommodation when she first moved in, but we had a conversation with the school and everything that needed fixed was fixed. Similarly DD needed to see a physio, this was arranged with no fuss and no repercussions with her missing class time to attend. Anyone who knows me, my children included, would agree that I have zero tolerance for things not being done properly or for people who I belive are messing me around. I have to say I've been happy with how Ballet West have handled anything I've raised to them to date. Of course everyone has their own experiences and opinions, but I just wanted to ensure we had a fair picture shown here on the forum. Again, apologies if anyone takes offence, these are my views, take them as read and decide what you want from them. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pups_mum Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 To be fair, in the many years I've been a member of this forum (and it's predecessor) I think I have seen threads discussing the adequacy of pastoral care, teaching, food, accommodation, you name it, at just about every vocational school in the country, and several in other countries. Every such thread has provided a variety of perspectives. Some students thrive in particular environments where others are simultaneously having a horrendous time. I don't think anyone is singling out Ballet West. Regarding the location, well it is quite different to any of the other UK Upper Schools and probably quite different to the environment that most forum members live in. There are positives to that, but also negatives - it would be daft to pretend otherwise. Rural life is different. Some people feel the positives by far outweigh the negatives, but others don't. Some will get used to things that bothered them initially. For others, things that were no more than a minor irritation or even enjoyed as a novelty at the beginning, become major issues as time goes on, especially as the weather deteriorates and the workload ramps up. You are absolutely right that the answer is "if you don't think it will suit you don't go", but surely that's why people are asking these questions? It's hard to know what life is really like at any school until you are there, so "warts and all" information is very valuable. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All4dancers Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 1 hour ago, ballettaxi said: Of course everyone has their own experiences and opinions, but I just wanted to ensure we had a fair picture shown here on the forum. Again, apologies if anyone takes offence, these are my views, take them as read and decide what you want from them. I'm sure no one would have reason to be offended by your comments and you are right, it's very important that this forum offers a balanced view which is why I posted about our experiences in the first place. However, in answer to your question - no I really don't think I would have had such an issue with pastoral care if the school had been in a less remote position as myself or other family members would've been able to visit dd and help her. Of course it was her choice to go to Ballet West; she had other offers that were much closer to home but she was particularly enticed by the touring aspect. We obviously didn't know at the time that injury would prevent her from touring and this in turn would lead to other difficulties which were not taken seriously and led to further problems. In my first reply to the OP, I did indeed stress that others no doubt have had much more positive experiences but I also know of many dc that were unhappy and there was quite a high number who left at the end of the year for one reason or another. We were quite happy with the quality of teaching and before injury my dd was given some great opportunities; my point was the staff know that many of the students live long distances away and therefore there should be more regard to pastoral care, particularly when a parent of a 16 year old (a parent who had never before complained or questioned) has expressed grave concern about their child. I hope that the pastoral side can be sorted and that by bringing my dd's unfortunate experience to the attention of such a widely read forum, parents will feel more able to question and insist that adequate care is provided when necessary. I don't think I shall comment any more now on this thread as I feel I've expressed my views adequately, however I will always respond to pms. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hull Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 With regard to the previous comments relating to Ballet West's remote setting, we try to look upon this generally as a positive thing, rather than something negative. We live overseas, a long way from Scotland, but still much closer than several other students at Ballet West. We are usually unable to accompany our DD when travelling to and from the school, so she travels alone and this is providing her with invaluable experience which she would not get if she studied closer to home. She sometimes travels part of the way with her friends, which is far more fun than being with her parents! Now she is in her second year, she is becoming more confident and starting to explore the area more. She is also making the most of opportunities to travel with her friends during their brief holidays to visit other places/cities and is thoroughly enjoying her growing independence. Being responsible for organising your life, including your own travel arrangements, is probably not very common for most 16 year olds nowadays, so I'm really pleased that she is doing so well and managing to find time to enjoy herself with her friends along the way. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I think this is the most honest conversation I've seen ever about any US. Is it perhaps significant that parents are prepared to say more about this school than any other? I take it to be positive because people are not afraid to post and the forum is not threatened if they do (compare a previous scenario). As a parent of a current applicant to USs i think it would be naive to consider this is the only school with such issues. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I think that it's interesting to compare the expectations of vocational upper schools with those of universities who are (subject to rare exceptions) taking 18 year olds. Universities have personal tutors, a health service and a student counselling service. Student unions often run additional support services and I think that there are nightlines at most universities. Most students are able to live in university halls of residence (many catered) for the first year and the halls frequently have some sort of resident pastoral advisor. At my son's university (and I don't suppose that it is unique in organising this) international students arrive before the start of the academic year for a week's induction. IMO, upper schools should be offering at least this level of support as they are taking 16 year olds plus there are additional challenges for young people training for an elite (and very competitive) profession with a high rate of attrition and the ever present risk of injury. I wonder whether there is still a prevailing attitude of 'sink or swim' or 'survival of the fittest'. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Students at university may well have personal tutors but they vary enormously. One I had was only interested in any academic issues that I might have. I actually needed the view of someone older and possibly wiser about a personal problem. He refused to discuss it and said I was juvenile. I changed tutors after that and the one who replaced him was terrific even though I’d ditched his subject in favour of another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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