The Royal Ballet: Mayerling, London, April/May 2017

[toursenlair]

14 minutes ago, Lindsay said:

You make a very a fair point Johnpw and of course pacing is important.  It's just that with McMillan I often feel that, rather than controlling dramatic tension, he is "finding things for the corps to do'.  The maids in Princess Stephanie's bedroom for example, like the women in Empress Elizabeth's bedroom, and Juliet's friends on the morning of her 'wedding day' do not really move things along in any meaningful way, and in fact their choreography often feels irrelevant (if not counterproductive) to the storytelling.  I would say that the female lab assistants in Frankenstein also draw upon this rather strange 'tradition'.

 

If we didn't have these filler moments, Rudolf would have to be on stage dancing even more than he is already, which would obviate the need for a suicide pact as the dancer would be dead long before the end of act 3.

[MAB]

10 minutes ago, Lindsay said:

You make a very a fair point Johnpw and of course pacing is important.  It's just that with McMillan I often feel that, rather than controlling dramatic tension, he is "finding things for the corps to do'.  The maids in Princess Stephanie's bedroom for example, like the women in Empress Elizabeth's bedroom, and Juliet's friends on the morning of her 'wedding day' do not really move things along in any meaningful way, and in fact their choreography often feels irrelevant (if not counterproductive) to the storytelling.  I would say that the female lab assistants in Frankenstein also draw upon this rather strange 'tradition'.

 

On the other hand those strange corseted and bustled outfits took some getting out of (and into) and the aristocracy always had servants to do everything for them, doubly so in the Hofburg

[Lindsay]

Yes, that is historically correct of course, but the point remains that effective drama comes from picking out significant moments and not simply illustrating the day to day.  There are perhaps more interesting 'sub-plots' that could have given Rudolf his off-stage time, such as a development of the relationship between his parents? Or a later scene between Mary Vetsera and her mother once she has entered into the relationship with Rudolf?  

[Mummykool]

I think these 'curtain' episodes show how Rudolf gets embroiled with the Hungarian uprising.... The first time he is accosted he just wants to get rid of them, the second time he listens etc. etc. So I feel it actually moves the story along while the change of scenery is taking place. I find that infinitely preferable to a musical interlude (which these days half the audience would take as an opportunity to chat......)

[Petunia]

1 hour ago, Lindsay said:

And there are elements of the staging, for example, the four officers repeatedly popping out from behind their curtains, that are clunky and too obviously designed to kill time during the scene change.   In short, I think that I like the 'choreography as psychodrama' elements of the set-piece pdd scenes, but am less convinced by the 'narrative realist' story telling in between.

Remember Sleeping Beauty, the interlude? Music without movement makes a ballet audience fidget.

 

And I think there is a sort of mutual agreement – we know there’s a scene change behind that curtain and the choreography is made for it so we can sit back and watch and air our brains a little.

 

Maybe the whores or the maids or Elisabeth’s ladies don’t move things along but they are setting a certain mood or vibe and they are defining a particular space and time for a scene.

 

The single scene where I feel a little disappointed is the hunting party because there is a definite build-up (is that a word?), people were coming and going and suddenly it’s over – certainly it’s a very effective ending but what has happened before?

(Must watch the DVD again).

[Vanartus]

The hunting scene used to be a lot longer. There was a cotton wool snow ball fight, and even more noddings and bobbings. What we have now is a sort of "let's get settled post interval drinks" and "here's another moment powder keg moment in the downward spiral". I think that MacMillan always wanted cinematic scene changes. But the shoot and cut technique works differently in theatre - meaning what's a super quick and smooth transition on the screen can be clunky on stage.

[Lindsay]

I don't disagree with the need for 'action' during a scene change and accept that the Hungarian officers' scenes illustrate pressure on Rudolf from progressive forces (though I do still wonder if that could have been conveyed through less repetitive choreography and without the slightly comical jack-in-the-box pop-outs).

 

However, I cannot agree that all the groups of women in bedrooms move things along or create an appropriate mood.  Cheery mob-capped twirling before the Rudolf/Stephanie wedding night scene is just odd (I don't buy that we are supposed to feel a contrast between their excited anticipation at a wedding night and the reality - we and the whole court have already seen the opening scene with Princess Louise et al so we know that this marriage will not be all hearts and flowers).  I think it is telling that Juliet's friends are the one real addition that Macmillan makes to R&J's plot and characters - if Shakespeare didn't need them to tell his story, then I'm not sure a ballet does either.  I wonder whether it is a nod to 19th century opera practice of introducing a group of pretty ballet dancers on the slimmest of pretexts (zombie nuns in Robert le Diable anyone?) to keep the patrons entertained?

[Petunia]

The mob-capped twirlers haven't been at the ball and don't know what has happened. They are excited for Stephanie and think about romance.

Elisabeth’s ladies are there to support and admire the Empress.

 

Yes, we know more than they do, we don’t need them for the storytelling. But they set a scene for something very different from what they are expecting:  there will be no romantic wedding night or relaxing sleep.

[Lindsay]

I think the whole court, including servants, would quickly have heard about that scene at the ball.  Imperial Vienna was notorious for gossip (especially about the royal family - just think how the figure of the Emperor runs through Roth's 'The Radetsky March' for example) and Rudolf's public antics would have been far too good a story not to tell.

[Petunia]

Yes, absolutely.

But we are in a ballet, not in a historical documentary... I can live with that.

[bridiem]

46 minutes ago, Lindsay said:

However, I cannot agree that all the groups of women in bedrooms move things along or create an appropriate mood.  Cheery mob-capped twirling before the Rudolf/Stephanie wedding night scene is just odd (I don't buy that we are supposed to feel a contrast between their excited anticipation at a wedding night and the reality - we and the whole court have already seen the opening scene with Princess Louise et al so we know that this marriage will not be all hearts and flowers).  I think it is telling that Juliet's friends are the one real addition that Macmillan makes to R&J's plot and characters - if Shakespeare didn't need them to tell his story, then I'm not sure a ballet does either.  I wonder whether it is a nod to 19th century opera practice of introducing a group of pretty ballet dancers on the slimmest of pretexts (zombie nuns in Robert le Diable anyone?) to keep the patrons entertained?

 

It may be a subconscious nod of this type, but I doubt very much that MacMillan was someone who would have this as an explicit motivation.

Edited May 3, 2017 by bridiem

[penelopesimpson]

Whilst this is a discussion forum, I think there's a danger in picking the whole thing to bits and then applying today's' thinking.  Yes, I am biased because I absolutely adore Mayerling, but I think it works as a whole rather than a series of vignettes.  There is so much passion in the underlying theme that the audience needs some light-hearted moments so that we don't drown and can better appreciate the highs and lows.  The whores work for me.  I enjoy the bare bones salaciousness and love the dancing - certainly the audience did last night.  I don't really care whether they are true to the time -as another poster has said, this is not Visit Vienna but a story woven around some real-life events.

[Lindsay]

My objection to the whores in the tavern has nothing to do with historical accuracy or the lack thereof.   It is the cliched 1970s Carry-on film/seaside postcard aesthetic and choreography which I find off-putting and dramatically unnecessary.   But I am not offended and do not find it dangerous that other people have a different response to mine.   

 

Edited to add:  I agree by the way with your point on light-hearted moments being necessary to highlight the tragedy - I think the Bratfisch solos are incredibly effective and poignant in this respect.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Lindsay

[MAB]

1 hour ago, Lindsay said:

  I think it is telling that Juliet's friends are the one real addition that Macmillan makes to R&J's plot and characters - if Shakespeare didn't need them to tell his story, then I'm not sure a ballet does either.  I wonder whether it is a nod to 19th century opera practice of introducing a group of pretty ballet dancers on the slimmest of pretexts (zombie nuns in Robert le Diable anyone?) to keep the patrons entertained?

 

They are not the only addition, Shakespeare doesn't have whores either, and neither do my preferred versions of the ballet.  However MacMillan had Prokofiev's score to work with and interpreted the music as he saw fit.  To the best of my knowledge only Yuri Grigorovich has used the entire score as it presents its own challenges.

[Lindsay]

True, MAB.  The R&J whores fit into the pattern of Macmillan shoehorning female dancers into a story (often as women of 'easy virtue').  A tradition faithfully followed in not only the tavern scene in Frankenstein but also Sweet Violets.

[bangorballetboy]

5 minutes ago, MAB said:

 

They are not the only addition, Shakespeare doesn't have whores either, and neither do my preferred versions of the ballet.  However MacMillan had Prokofiev's score to work with and interpreted the music as he saw fit.  To the best of my knowledge only Yuri Grigorovich has used the entire score as it presents its own challenges.

 

Two points to add to this discussion (taking us further off topic...).

 

First, Shakespeare did not invent Romeo & Juliet, the story is much older.  One need only look at the operatic versions to see just how the story can be differentiated.

 

Second, Juliet's friends are contemplated in Prokofiev's score.  The movement before the discovery of Juliet's "lifeless" body is "Dance of the girls with lilies", i.e. her friends bringing her flowers.

[Lindsay]

Absolutely  Shakespeare did not invent R&J but, in many key respects, Prokofiev's music and Macmillan's ballet follows his telling of the story.  And Prokofiev was of course specifically writing (not always willingly and amidst many disputes with the Soviet authorities) for a ballet version of the story, where a stager might equally have wanted to use the corps de ballet.  Some musicologists have discussed Prokofiev's desire to add a happy ending, which would have made for very interesting discussinos....

 

As you say BBB, this is somewhat off topic, but I think it is relevant to ongoing debates about dramatic structure and pacing in new narrative ballet.  As I said way up thread, despite some parts feeling a little dated, I still think that Mayerling holds together much more strongly than many recent works.

[RuthE]

Catherine Carby has written a nice article today on her website about the experience of playing Katharina Schratt:

 

https://catherinecarby.com/news/2017/5/3/ballet-and-all-that-jazz

[Josephine]

20 minutes ago, Lindsay said:

True, MAB.  The R&J whores fit into the pattern of Macmillan shoehorning female dancers into a story (often as women of 'easy virtue').  A tradition faithfully followed in not only the tavern scene in Frankenstein but also Sweet Violets.

 

Maybe this discussion needs a separate thread. At risk of going way off topic, for me the women were certainly not 'shoehorned' into Sweet Violets. (I agree though regarding Frankenstein and would add Wheeldon's Strapless to this list.) In Sweet Violets the depiction of the various women seems intended to convey partly the actual world Sickert observed and painted (the music hall especially) and partly a projection of his fractured inner life. For me, Scarlett focused with compassion on the social context of women's position, in the asylum scene especially, and achieved this more powerfully in his original version of the work.

[Lindsay]

Thanks Josephine.  I was really referring to the music hall dancers in Sweet Violet, who looked far more glamorous and healthy than I would expect if we were supposed to see them as downtrodden.  In addition, I don't think they were given very much to do choreographically - I only saw this ballet once when it was first staged a few years ago, but recall them mostly standing around in Degas-like poses - apologies if my recollection is patchy.  I agree that in the asylum and other scenes, the women had an important dramatic role.

[Mary]

Mayerling, R&J and Manon of course all have a scene of jolly re-haired whores dancing. It is almost interchangeable...

I find it rather a lapse in imagination and agree with Lindsay that a scene which helped to develop the characterisation and motivation of the ballet would be better.  I accept Rudolf needs a rest!

If there was a bit more context and explanation in the ballet , or possibly even some rays of light in the darkness of Rudolf's horrible career, (more with Bratfisch perhaps??) it might edge it towards tragedy for me, whereas -for me- it is to some extent depressing and sordid. So the jolly whores scene  just seems a tasteless interlude between episodes of violence.

 

The scene with Empress Elizabeth is very involving -when so well danced as it has been this run it can be brilliant- but, taking it all in all, are we meant to feel that because his mother was a bit chilly towards him, it is ample explanation for Rudolf's turning into a drug-addled bully and rapist, for whom we can feel sympathy?

If so it doesn't work for me. (Certainly as danced by Yanowsky and Avis, these imperial lovers seemed to me the most attractive characters on the stage-their pas de deux a very moving portrayal of a pair who are not just lovers, but friends- but I am sure that had to do with the dancers concerned.)

 

Or, is the intention to make the audience feel shock and horror towards a tale of relentless nastiness? if so, that to me is a much lesser artistic experience- and the comparisons with 'Hamlet' fall very wide of the mark.

None of which prevents my admiration for the brilliance of the dancing , and the sumptuousness of the production.

 

 

 

 

[Sim]

"Re-haired whores"?  The mind boggles... ?

[penelopesimpson]

But the whores are meant to be tasteless, that's surely the point!

 

Oh dear, I feel I am watching scabs being picked off a much loved friend.

[David]

36 minutes ago, Mary said:

 

The scene with Empress Elizabeth is very involving -when so well danced as it has been this run it can be brilliant- but, taking it all in all, are we meant to feel that because his mother was a bit chilly towards him, it is ample explanation for Rudolf's turning into a drug-addled bully and rapist, for whom we can feel sympathy?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rudolf’s Great Grandson outlined six reasons for his suicide: “his troubled relationship with his mother who cared little for him, his bad relationship with the Emperor his father, his catastrophic marriage, his many love affairs, none of which led to fulfillment, his bad health and the frustration of his political objectives”. adding “he was a total failure as a human being, as a husband, as a son and as a father.” It seems to me that MacMillan reflects this perspective pretty well. If anything he offers a slightly more redeeming portrait - particularly as, for example Bonelli portrays him.

Edited May 3, 2017 by David

[Mary]

13 minutes ago, David said:

 

Rudolf’s Great Grandson outlined six reasons for his suicide: “his troubled relationship with his mother who cared little for him, his bad relationship with the Emperor his father, his catastrophic marriage, his many love affairs, none of which led to fulfillment, his bad health and the frustration of his political objectives”. adding “he was a total failure as a human being, as a husband, as a son and as a father.” It seems to me that MacMillan reflects this perspective pretty well. If anything he offers a slightly more redeeming portrait - particularly as, for example Bonelli portrays him.

 

Yes- ' a total failure as a human being' is not the best choice, in my view, as your main character...

 

i wish I was seeing Bonelli though.

[Mary]

39 minutes ago, Sim said:

"Re-haired whores"?  The mind boggles... ?

 

Red haired! sorry- though re haired as well, since they wear the same wigs as the gang in Manon and R+J

[Fiz]

Rudolf's only child was a daughter by Stephanie. She could not inherit the throne owing to the Salic law which forebade the accession of women. Stephanie had contracted gonorrhea from Rudolf and it had rendered her infertile. There would be no more children and Stephanie's infection nearly killed her. She hated Rudolph by the time of Mayerling. Rudolph's conspiracy with Hungary also pushed him

perilously close to treason. He was in despair by the time he met Mary Vetsera. 

[bangorballetboy]

The scene in the tavern/café/brothel is important to the story.  It introduces the character of Mitzi Caspar and confirms that, whilst dancing in a relatively civilised manner, she is a prostitute (as well as mistress to both Rudolf and Taaffe).  Towards the end of the scene, Rudolf suggests the suicide pact to her but she refuses.

 

According to contemporary reports, Caspar actually went to the police to report Rudolf's suggestion of a suicide pact.

[Lindsay]

I still don't see why it should be necessary to add a curly-haired "whore chorus".  Mitzi's costume and the choreography she is given are sufficient to mark her profession and make a distinction between her and the 'respectable' court ladies.  Why have the corps dressed so suggestively and have them engage in far lewder choreography than that given to Mitzi?  It would surely have been sufficient, if a 'crowd scene' were really needed here, to use less cartoonishly titillating costumes and more subtle choreography?

[bangorballetboy]

5 minutes ago, Lindsay said:

I still don't see why it should be necessary to add a curly-haired "whore chorus".  Mitzi's costume and the choreography she is given are sufficient to mark her profession and make a distinction between her and the 'respectable' court ladies.  Why have the corps dressed so suggestively and have them engage in far lewder choreography than that given to Mitzi?  It would surely have been sufficient, if a 'crowd scene' were really needed here, to use less cartoonishly titillating costumes and more subtle choreography?

 

It makes the distinction between "common whore" and "high class prostitute".

[Lindsay]

But why does that distinction need to be made?  We get Mitzi's status from her relaxed and friendly relationship with the Hungarian officers and we get that Rudolf is mixing in a seedy netherworld.   That could all happen against a background of drinkers, gamblers and girls dressed in similar costumes to Mitzi.  We don't need the visual equivalent of a Viennese prostitution price list to advance the story.   I'm sorry but I really think all that open-legged, crudely suggestive choreography is gratuitous.

[bangorballetboy]

Just now, Lindsay said:

But why does that distinction need to be made?  We get Mitzi's status from her relaxed and friendly relationship with the Hungarian officers and we get that Rudolf is mixing in a seedy netherworld.   That could all happen against a background of drinkers, gamblers and girls dressed in similar costumes to Mitzi.  We don't need the visual equivalent of a Viennese prostitution price list to advance the story.   I'm sorry but I really think all that open-legged, crudely suggestive choreography is gratuitous.

 

We shall have to agree to disagree then.

[Lindsay]

Indeed we shall. Each to their own....