THE MARIUS PETIPA SOCIETY

[FLOSS]

For those who are interested in ballet and its history and are curious about the recent spate of reconstructions using the Harvard archive of Petipa's ballets recorded in the Stepanov notation a website devoted to Marius Petipa and his works may be of interest. The website includes accounts of Petipa's ballets and some clips from Ratmansky's reconstructions of Sleeping Beauty and Swan Lake using material in the Harvard archive danced in period appropriate performance style.

 

There is a great deal of fascinating information on the site, Those who saw the recent Royal Ballet revival of Sleeping Beauty may find the Fairy Variations and the account of Bluebird and Princess Florine to be found there of particular interest. In the reconstruction they are far more connected to their music and far less obviously showy. I shall be interested to read your comments on the contents of the site and performances to be found on there.

Edited April 26, 2017 by FLOSS

[Jan McNulty]

I assume this is the website Floss?

 

https://petipasociety.com

[nickwellings]

Is this a Dr D Fullington offering? If so, essential reading. The Works and Process videos consistently illuminating, Fullington's commentaries therein concise and helpful.

 

Lovely resource.

[Ellie]

Thank you FLOSS and Janet. 

[Ivy Lin]

2 hours ago, nickwellings said:

Is this a Dr D Fullington offering? If so, essential reading. The Works and Process videos consistently illuminating, Fullington's commentaries therein concise and helpful.

 

Lovely resource.

 

No it isn't. The owner of the site is a ballet fan with her own YT channel "darkdancer07."

https://www.youtube.com/user/LightSpirit06

[FLOSS]

While it is true that the site is not directly connected with Doug Fullington the video section has links to material delivered by him in a demonstration lecture given under the title "Work  and Process" which seems to be Pacific North West Ballet's equivalent of an Insight evening. In it dancers from the company perform Fullington's reconstructions of sections of Sleeping Beauty and Swan Lake.The video section also contains a lecture about Sleeping Beauty delivered by Tim Scholl, the author of "The Sleeping Beauty: A Legend in Progress" and "From Balanchine to Petipa", and information about Ratmansky's reconstructions of Sleeping Beauty and Swan Lake. The latter includes a number of videos of short extracts from the Ratmansky reconstructions filmed in costume in performance.

 

While each reconstruction however carefully researched it is and however well the stager can read the notation inevitably requires the stager to make decisions based on his personal interpretation of the notation and his understanding of contemporary performance practice it sometimes involves compromise and the retention of elements from more modern stagings. I have been told that PNB's reconstruction of Giselle did not include the low lifts in act 2 which make it look as if Giselle is skimming across the ground as the company's dancers were reluctant to relinquish the Bolshoi lifts which have become an iconic feature of modern stagings. Whether or not they contain some compromises the latest reconstructions bring us far closer to what these ballets may well have looked like in performance and certainly go a long way towards restoring something approaching Petipa's. musicality. I find them of great interest.

Edited April 26, 2017 by FLOSS

[toursenlair]

Works and Process is a series at the Guggenheim Museum in New York which has featured various companies, including PNB.

[assoluta]

21 hours ago, FLOSS said:

For those who are interested in ballet and its history and are curious about the recent spate of reconstructions using the Harvard archive of Petipa's ballets recorded in the Stepanov notation a website devoted to Marius Petipa and his works may be of interest. The website includes accounts of Petipa's ballets and some clips from Ratmansky's reconstructions of Sleeping Beauty and Swan Lake using material in the Harvard archive danced in period appropriate performance style.

 

There is a great deal of fascinating information on the site, Those who saw the recent Royal Ballet revival of Sleeping Beauty may find the Fairy Variations and the account of Bluebird and Princess Florine to be found there of particular interest. In the reconstruction they are far more connected to their music and far less obviously showy. I shall be interested to read your comments on the contents of the site and performances to be found on there.

 

The site is an enthusiast's run project and should not be considered an authoritative source of information on the subject.

[Ivy Lin]

The website also contains color commentary like this:

 

Quote

Through these relationships, Mme. Kschessinskaya obtained strong links to the Imperial Russian Court, which she would use as a means to get what she wanted. Despite her great talent, she owed much of the success in her career to the Imperial Court, including her rise to the rank of Prima Ballerina Assoluta, a rank that she did not rightfully earn. Petipa gave this rank to Pierina Legnani, whom he considered to be the superior ballerina, which only made Mme. Kschessinskaya all the more jealous and resentful of her Italian colleague, as she would settle for nothing less than to be the pinnacle of the Imperial Ballet. When Petipa did not give her the rank, Mme. Kschessinskaya appealed to the Imperial Russian Court to obtain it and her appeal was successful. In 1896, she officially became the second ballerina to become Prima Ballerina Assoluta, which did not sit well with Petipa, as he had not been consulted on the matter.

 

and

Quote

Mme. Kschessinskaya’s connections to the Imperial Court did a lot of good for her career, but it cost her many friends at the Imperial Theatre. Her proud, vain and spiteful nature made her unpopular among her colleagues and even Petipa, himself, thoroughly despised her; in several of his diary entries, he calls her “rotten”, “spiteful” and “a nasty swine” and even goes on to say that a local critic should have beaten her rather than compliment her. While Mme. Kschessinskaya could be kind and charming to some, to others, especially her rivals, she was utterly ruthless and even refused to share her roles with rivals who were just as deserving of them as she was.

 

and

 

Quote

On the 4th February 1929, due to financial difficulties as a result of gambling, Mme. Kschessinskaya and her husband sold their villa in Cap d’Ail and moved to Paris, where she opened a new ballet school. Among her students were Tatiana Ryabouchinskaya, Dame Alicia Markova, Dame Margot Fonteyn, André Eglevsky, Tamara Toumanova and Maurice Béjart. However, unlike her former Imperial Ballet colleagues, Olga Preobrazhenskaya and Nikolai Legat, Mme. Kschessinskaya did not earn a good reputation as a teacher, nor did she leave behind a great pedagogue. This was primarily because she would often invite her friends to watch her classes and would spend more time chatting to them than focusing on her students.

 

Where are the sources for this information? It reads like Twilight fanfic.

[FLOSS]

 I don't believe that I suggested that this was an authoritative website merely that it was one that was of considerable interest particularly for those who want to read more about Petipa in English, it has a good bibliography, and those who are curious about the work being undertaken by both Fullington and Ratmansky in reconstructing Petipa's ballets using the material held at Harvard. Anyone who is interested in what Petipa's choreography might have looked like before it was "improved" and what it looks like when it is danced at the speed contemplated by both composer and choreographer could do a lot worse than watching the videos on the site. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by FLOSS

[Ivy Lin]

The video clips don't belong to the site owner either. They were uploaded by another YT user named "artdecochicgirl" whose account was under threats to get terminated/suspended because of her uploading those clips.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epbkT7Lm-k8&t=1s

 

Quote

...if not the last time then at least for a long time. Without going into specifics because I'm certainly not losing sleep over it, just telling it straight, I've gotten flack for posting certain videos (Ratmansky productions/ ABT). The flack I had gotten wasn't done in a direct manner but in a roundabout manner. Whatever.

If and when this channel gets shut down as the complaints threaten to have yt do, I won't in all likelihood make another channel and upload videos. There are more important things in life than deal with threats about terminating yt channel over ballet videos, of all things. 

My original intent of starting this channel was to have a platform for dance discussion where the focus isn't ballet claque wars where one's favorites get pitted against another's favorites. Instead, it was to have interesting, at times educational yet opinionated discussions about ballet and whatever related topics that get thrown into the mix. Hope you guys have enjoyed some part of it. In case this channel is not terminated, it will nevertheless be on hibernation for an indeterminate amount of time as far as uploading videos is concerned. 

Please do not post disrespectful comments bashing me or the people who made the complaints, this isn't why I shared the reasons for why I won't be posting more videos or for the likely termination of channel. Thank you.

 

Not saying the site isn't a useful resource of information. But it's a fan site and don't have the cooperation of either Ratmansky or Fullington.

[Amy]

Hello there everyone.

 

I am the owner of this Petipa website and I'd like to thank the person who started this discussion; I'm glad to see that people are really tuning into the site.

 

The website still needs a lot of work done to it; yes, it is very much a fan site right now, but one of my aims is to take it further and hopefully, it can become a good reference site in the near future. I have had feedback from the likes of Lynn Garafola and Tim Scholl and Doug Fullington and Alexei Ratmansky have both seen it too; they've all given good feedback and a positive reaction and what the site is missing is a scholarly side. Hopefully, if I get a good team together, it will become more scholarly.

 

I welcome any feedback and I'm glad to hear that people are enjoying the site; thank you.

[CHazell2]

17 hours ago, Amy said:

Hello there everyone.

 

I am the owner of this Petipa website and I'd like to thank the person who started this discussion; I'm glad to see that people are really tuning into the site.

 

The website still needs a lot of work done to it; yes, it is very much a fan site right now, but one of my aims is to take it further and hopefully, it can become a good reference site in the near future. I have had feedback from the likes of Lynn Garafola and Tim Scholl and Doug Fullington and Alexei Ratmansky have both seen it too; they've all given good feedback and a positive reaction and what the site is missing is a scholarly side. Hopefully, if I get a good team together, it will become more scholarly.

 

I welcome any feedback and I'm glad to hear that people are enjoying the site; thank you.

Hi Amy

 

That sounds wonderful. Just out of curiosity, will you upload any more clips or aren't you allowed to?

[Amy]

3 minutes ago, CHazell2 said:

Hi Amy

 

That sounds wonderful. Just out of curiosity, will you upload any more clips or aren't you allowed to?

Hello!

 

Yes I am hoping to post more clips, but I don't have any more at the minute. I'm hoping to get some more and as soon as I do, I will upload more. Thank you.

[Amy]

On 27/04/2017 at 14:14, Ivy Lin said:

The website also contains color commentary like this:

 

Where are the sources for this information? It reads like Twilight fanfic.

Hello Ivy, if you wish to find backup for this information, I advise you to read Petipa's diaries and Kschessinska's memoirs Dancing in Petersburg. Obviously, she doesn't say any of the negative things I have said on this page, but her memoirs really give an insight into how full of herself she was as a person, though there are times when you do feel sorry for her. There are a couple of times where she actually lies about certain things - for example, she claims that she was the one to notice Anna Pavlova's potential and that she had to repeatedly beg Petipa to let Pavlova dance Nikiya because Petipa repeatedly refused to let the young dancer dance the role. That, however, is a lie because it was Petipa who noticed Pavlova's potential and it was Kschessinska who didn't want her dancing Nikiya - in reality, Kschessinska returned from holiday and was not happy to find that "her role" was being given to a younger dancer.

 

Also, if you ever manage to read Olga Preobrazhenskaya's biography, as one of my team has, it's not difficult to notice who was the better person.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Amy

[Ivy Lin]

5 hours ago, Amy said:

Hello Ivy, if you wish to find backup for this information, I advise you to read Petipa's diaries and Kschessinska's memoirs Dancing in Petersburg. Obviously, she doesn't say any of the negative things I have said on this page, but her memoirs really give an insight into how full of herself she was as a person, though there are times when you do feel sorry for her. There are a couple of times where she actually lies about certain things - for example, she claims that she was the one to notice Anna Pavlova's potential and that she had to repeatedly beg Petipa to let Pavlova dance Nikiya because Petipa repeatedly refused to let the young dancer dance the role. That, however, is a lie because it was Petipa who noticed Pavlova's potential and it was Kschessinska who didn't want her dancing Nikiya - in reality, Kschessinska returned from holiday and was not happy to find that "her role" was being given to a younger dancer.

 

Also, if you ever manage to read Olga Preobrazhenskaya's biography, as one of my team has, it's not difficult to notice who was the better person.

 

I've read a number of books on that era. I read Tamara Karsavina's Theatre Street, where she has some very kind things to say about Mathilde K., and also a lot of fond memories of socializing with Mathilde. Also have read Margot Fonteyn's memoirs which again contain some fond memories of Mathilde. I've read Ballet's Magic Kingdom, a collection of reviews by Akim Volynsky which describes Mathilde's dancing in very awed terms -- while acknowledging that she had an imperfect looking body and "flat feet" he described her par terre technique as the best there was. 

 

I've also read biographies about Mathilde and her own memoirs. Mathilde K. was pregnant when Anna Pavlova was picked for La Bayadere. This delicate condition is the reason her memoirs gloss over the incident. And I don't see anything in her memoirs to warrant such a harsh and subjective opinion of her. She seems like a woman who was justifiably proud of her career and like most superstars has a healthy ego. She was also a survivor. During the Russian Revolution she packed her bags and left Russia with her son and husband Andre forever. She went from living in a mansion set up by the czar to a much reduced lifestyle in Paris. But people like Margot Fonteyn admired her courage, her strong will, and the fact that she never complained about her poverty. She obviously was of a very strong constitution and lived till she was 99, and whenever asked said "My life was beautiful." IDK, she sounds like the type of person I would have admired. 

[Amy]

18 minutes ago, Ivy Lin said:

 

I've read a number of books on that era. I read Tamara Karsavina's Theatre Street, where she has some very kind things to say about Mathilde K., and also a lot of fond memories of socializing with Mathilde. Also have read Margot Fonteyn's memoirs which again contain some fond memories of Mathilde. I've read Ballet's Magic Kingdom, a collection of reviews by Akim Volynsky which describes Mathilde's dancing in very awed terms -- while acknowledging that she had an imperfect looking body and "flat feet" he described her par terre technique as the best there was. 

 

I've also read biographies about Mathilde and her own memoirs. Mathilde K. was pregnant when Anna Pavlova was picked for La Bayadere. This delicate condition is the reason her memoirs gloss over the incident. And I don't see anything in her memoirs to warrant such a harsh and subjective opinion of her. She seems like a woman who was justifiably proud of her career and like most superstars has a healthy ego. She was also a survivor. During the Russian Revolution she packed her bags and left Russia with her son and husband Andre forever. She went from living in a mansion set up by the czar to a much reduced lifestyle in Paris. But people like Margot Fonteyn admired her courage, her strong will, and the fact that she never complained about her poverty. She obviously was of a very strong constitution and lived till she was 99, and whenever asked said "My life was beautiful." IDK, she sounds like the type of person I would have admired. 

Her survival of the revolution and her dancing talent are certainly to be admired; there were people who liked her, Tamara Karsavina being one of them, but there were also people who disliked her. It seems that opinions of her as a person were very divided; Sir Anton Dolin didn't seem to think she was a nice person because he asked Karsavina in an interview "Don't you think she [Olga Preobrazhenskaya] was a kinder person than Kschessinska?" to which Karsavina replied "Oh Kschessinska was very kind to me." Petipa certainly makes his dislike for her very clear in his diaries.

 

Yes Kschessinska was pregnant when Pavlova debuted as Nikiya, but that wasn't the main reason why Petipa chose Pavlova for the role, plus, if memory serves me correctly, he made the decision before Kschessinska even announced that she was pregnant. Pavlova was Petipa's favourite ballerinas and by then, he was already casting her in leading roles, including roles Kschessinska had created; Keith Money writes in his Pavlova biography that Pavlova gave Petipa everything he had wanted for the role of Nikiya.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Amy

[assoluta]

1 hour ago, Ivy Lin said:

 

I've read a number of books on that era. I read Tamara Karsavina's Theatre Street, where she has some very kind things to say about Mathilde K., and also a lot of fond memories of socializing with Mathilde. Also have read Margot Fonteyn's memoirs which again contain some fond memories of Mathilde. I've read Ballet's Magic Kingdom, a collection of reviews by Akim Volynsky which describes Mathilde's dancing in very awed terms -- while acknowledging that she had an imperfect looking body and "flat feet" he described her par terre technique as the best there was. 

 

I've also read biographies about Mathilde and her own memoirs. Mathilde K. was pregnant when Anna Pavlova was picked for La Bayadere. This delicate condition is the reason her memoirs gloss over the incident. And I don't see anything in her memoirs to warrant such a harsh and subjective opinion of her. She seems like a woman who was justifiably proud of her career and like most superstars has a healthy ego. She was also a survivor. During the Russian Revolution she packed her bags and left Russia with her son and husband Andre forever. She went from living in a mansion set up by the czar to a much reduced lifestyle in Paris. But people like Margot Fonteyn admired her courage, her strong will, and the fact that she never complained about her poverty. She obviously was of a very strong constitution and lived till she was 99, and whenever asked said "My life was beautiful." IDK, she sounds like the type of person I would have admired. 

I agree completely and I am particularly disturbed by the fact that those, at best, personal opinions are fed to an unprepared visitor of a site that purports to be factually accurate.

[Amy]

11 hours ago, Ivy Lin said:

 

I've read a number of books on that era. I read Tamara Karsavina's Theatre Street, where she has some very kind things to say about Mathilde K., and also a lot of fond memories of socializing with Mathilde. Also have read Margot Fonteyn's memoirs which again contain some fond memories of Mathilde. I've read Ballet's Magic Kingdom, a collection of reviews by Akim Volynsky which describes Mathilde's dancing in very awed terms -- while acknowledging that she had an imperfect looking body and "flat feet" he described her par terre technique as the best there was.

 

10 hours ago, assoluta said:

I agree completely and I am particularly disturbed by the fact that those, at best, personal opinions are fed to an unprepared visitor of a site that purports to be factually accurate.

Like I said, I do appreciate feedback and I thank you both for yours. I have made changes to the change, but there are things I will keep - for example, it's common knowledge that Petipa thoroughly despised Kschessinska and that she refused to share "her roles" with other dancers, like Preobrazhenskaya. If you would like confirmation of this, I advise you to read Petipa's diaries and Lynn Garafola's book Legacies of Twentieth-Century Dance because in this book, she has a whole chapter in which she analyses Petipa's diaries. In Roland John Wiley's book The Life and Ballets of Lev Ivanov, there's a sentence in which Wiley writes that Kschessinska was reputed to have been jealous of Pierina Legnani; there's even a theory that Legnani's reason for leaving Russia in 1901 was because she had given up on her escalating, one-sided rivalry with Kschessinska.

 

Something else I'll say is that one should always take caution with memoirs because even memoirs can be biased or unreliable and can clash with what is said in other sources; even in their memoirs, people do fabricate or leave out information. For example, Kschessinska's claim that she was the one to notice Pavlova's potential is not backed up by other sources, including two Pavlova biographies.

[Balletomanewithoutacause]

While I understand that historical methods have changed since the advent of the Internet, it's still true that anyone hoping to be viewed as a responsible historian must give specific citations (including edition, page number or accepted internet citation) so as to enable others to view the source material and come to their own conclusions.  It's also important to keep in mind the difference between demonstrable historical facts and opinion based on those facts. What other people said about somebody at the time can provide interesting "color" (especially for one writing historical fiction) but should not be cited as historical fact unless such opinions are corroborated by other reliable sources, which should also be cited in a form that can be checked by others. Among those of us who are not scholars, all sorts of assertions can be thrown around but nobody can insist their interpretation is the correct one unless they take the further step of demonstrating the historical basis for their assertion. I see nothing wrong with tossing around essentially unsubstantiated "facts" about ballet -- we do it all the time -- so long as we are clear there are no irrefutable facts, no "correct" interpretations, until such has been proved by rigorous historical methods.

 

 

[Mary Cargill]

22 hours ago, Ivy Lin said:

 

I've read a number of books on that era. I read Tamara Karsavina's Theatre Street, where she has some very kind things to say about Mathilde K., and also a lot of fond memories of socializing with Mathilde. Also have read Margot Fonteyn's memoirs which again contain some fond memories of Mathilde. I've read Ballet's Magic Kingdom, a collection of reviews by Akim Volynsky which describes Mathilde's dancing in very awed terms -- while acknowledging that she had an imperfect looking body and "flat feet" he described her par terre technique as the best there was. 

 

I've also read biographies about Mathilde and her own memoirs. Mathilde K. was pregnant when Anna Pavlova was picked for La Bayadere. This delicate condition is the reason her memoirs gloss over the incident. And I don't see anything in her memoirs to warrant such a harsh and subjective opinion of her. She seems like a woman who was justifiably proud of her career and like most superstars has a healthy ego. She was also a survivor. During the Russian Revolution she packed her bags and left Russia with her son and husband Andre forever. She went from living in a mansion set up by the czar to a much reduced lifestyle in Paris. But people like Margot Fonteyn admired her courage, her strong will, and the fact that she never complained about her poverty. She obviously was of a very strong constitution and lived till she was 99, and whenever asked said "My life was beautiful." IDK, she sounds like the type of person I would have admired. 

Have you read Petipa's diaries?  He didn't liker her very much.  That pig Kschessinska was one of his terms, as I recall.

[MAB]

On ‎30‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 11:21, Amy said:

 

Like I said, I do appreciate feedback and I thank you both for yours. I have made changes to the change, but there are things I will keep - for example, it's common knowledge that Petipa thoroughly despised Kschessinska and that she refused to share "her roles" with other dancers, like Preobrazhenskaya.

 

Difficult not to despise a woman who achieved her powerful position through sleeping her way through the Imperial family. 

[Jan McNulty]

15 hours ago, Mary Cargill said:

Have you read Petipa's diaries?  He didn't liker her very much.  That pig Kschessinska was one of his terms, as I recall.

 

Hello Mary and welcome to the Forum!

[DrewCo]

On 4/30/2017 at 15:32, Lexy said:

While I understand that historical methods have changed since the advent of the Internet, it's still true that anyone hoping to be viewed as a responsible historian must give specific citations (including edition, page number or accepted internet citation) so as to enable others to view the source material and come to their own conclusions.  It's also important to keep in mind the difference between demonstrable historical facts and opinion based on those facts. What other people said about somebody at the time can provide interesting "color" (especially for one writing historical fiction) but should not be cited as historical fact unless such opinions are corroborated by other reliable sources, which should also be cited in a form that can be checked by others. [....]

 

 

I've enjoyed some of the information about Petipa's early life on Amy's "Petipa Society" site (while understanding not every 'i' may be dotted just yet) and I also appreciate her good-natured response to the criticism she is receiving in this discussion, but Lexy's point seems exactly right to me. I think it would add immeasurably to the usefulness and value of the site for it to have proper citation of sources for its claims--not just general signalling to this or that source material. (Proper citation is not a long, tendentious article followed by saying 'this is based on books x, y, and z.' That's fine for us chatting here, but for a site with more historically serious ambitious...not so much.)  

 

I think it would be great to have a more scholarly (while still accessible) Petipa site -- and that would mean less partisan presentation as well. "Just the facts" is impossible of course, but a more careful parsing of different sources and perspectives would be a good start. And it would still be plenty colorful. I don't know if that's what the creator of this website wants or if she prefers something more personal and, to be blunt, less substantive. I do think if it's the latter than it should be clearer what it is -- Petipa "fan fiction" (to allude to something Ivy Lin said above). But if the goal is as ambitious as it sounds, then I think the citing of sources, but also the presentation, summary, and weighing of what those sources have to say needs to be somewhat revamped. At least that's my thought.

 

[Amy]

On 30/04/2017 at 20:32, Lexy said:

While I understand that historical methods have changed since the advent of the Internet, it's still true that anyone hoping to be viewed as a responsible historian must give specific citations (including edition, page number or accepted internet citation) so as to enable others to view the source material and come to their own conclusions.  It's also important to keep in mind the difference between demonstrable historical facts and opinion based on those facts. What other people said about somebody at the time can provide interesting "color" (especially for one writing historical fiction) but should not be cited as historical fact unless such opinions are corroborated by other reliable sources, which should also be cited in a form that can be checked by others. Among those of us who are not scholars, all sorts of assertions can be thrown around but nobody can insist their interpretation is the correct one unless they take the further step of demonstrating the historical basis for their assertion. I see nothing wrong with tossing around essentially unsubstantiated "facts" about ballet -- we do it all the time -- so long as we are clear there are no irrefutable facts, no "correct" interpretations, until such has been proved by rigorous historical methods.

 

 

 

10 hours ago, DrewCo said:

 

I've enjoyed some of the information about Petipa's early life on Amy's "Petipa Society" site (while understanding not every 'i' may be dotted just yet) and I also appreciate her good-natured response to the criticism she is receiving in this discussion, but Lexy's point seems exactly right to me. I think it would add immeasurably to the usefulness and value of the site for it to have proper citation of sources for its claims--not just general signalling to this or that source material. (Proper citation is not a long, tendentious article followed by saying 'this is based on books x, y, and z.' That's fine for us chatting here, but for a site with more historically serious ambitious...not so much.)  

 

I think it would be great to have a more scholarly (while still accessible) Petipa site -- and that would mean less partisan presentation as well. "Just the facts" is impossible of course, but a more careful parsing of different sources and perspectives would be a good start. And it would still be plenty colorful. I don't know if that's what the creator of this website wants or if she prefers something more personal and, to be blunt, less substantive. I do think if it's the latter than it should be clearer what it is -- Petipa "fan fiction" (to allude to something Ivy Lin said above). But if the goal is as ambitious as it sounds, then I think the citing of sources, but also the presentation, summary, and weighing of what those sources have to say needs to be somewhat revamped. At least that's my thought.

 

Thank you both very much for your feedback. The site definitely needs a scholarly side, but right now, I'm still working out how to do that. The website is still at stage 1 and if I succeed in taking it further, it will probably need to be redesigned by a professional web designer; I am certainly not one of those lol. Also, yes it would be excellent to use citations in each page, but the problem is I don't know how to include those in Word Press; I don't even know if you can include them in Word Press, so for now, all written sources of information are listed in the bibliography. If there's anyone here who knows how to use Word Press better than me, any help with that would be much appreciated lol! Thanks.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Amy

[Amelia]

Literally a few days ago a new book has been published:

   Three Conversations with Marius Petipa, the Legat Brothers and Anna Pavlova

Paperback – 20 Aug 2018
by Peter Koppers (Author)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Conversations-Marius-Petipa-Brothers-Pavlova/dp/9090311106/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1535567515&sr=8-1&keywords=petipa

[Fiz]

Thank you, Amelia! That’s gone on my wish list.

[assoluta]

Can anybody shed some light on who is Peter Koppers, and what the word "Conversations with" in the title mean?

[Sebastian]

7 hours ago, assoluta said:

Can anybody shed some light on who is Peter Koppers, and what the word "Conversations with" in the title mean?

 

Teacher Nationale Balletacademie. Dancer Ballett der Deutschen Oper Berlin and the Dutch National Ballet (see https://www.summerschooldenhaag.com/teachers-2003-2017.html )

 

According to the (few) pages one can look at on Amazon, this book seems to be a work of imagination based on fact. How much historically new material Koppers has is unclear:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Conversations-Marius-Petipa-Brothers-Pavlova/dp/9090311106/

[assoluta]

Thank you, Sebastian (I am at a loss why, when I press that little 'heart' icon under your posting, nothing happens...).

 

The book's description starts, ominously, with the words

 

2018 is the year of the 200th birthday of Marius Petipa, the father of classical ballet.

 

While the first part is true, which, by the way, remained unknown for a very long time, thanks to Marius Petipa's habit to hide, obfuscate, and invent, various essential facts from his own biography, the second part is demonstrably false: Marius Petipa had many children yet he certainly cannot be called "the father of classical ballet".

 

This doesn't augur well for the possible value this book may offer to a serious student of ballet history.

[FLOSS]

 

 

Of course this book might provide valuable insights but at the moment it looks suspiciously like the product of someone trying to cash in on the Petipa bicentenary. I know it is only early September but does not anyone think it strange that there appears to be no hint and certainly no official indication that a serious biography of Petipa, comparable to the work which Ivor Guest wrote about Perrot,  is in the offing ? I find it hard to believe that no one is writing one but then as Wiley's book about Ivanov is the only study of his work in any language perhaps it is not that surprising after all.

 

I can't help wondering why no one has written one in the century since Petipa's death and what the problems are? Are there problems over access to archive materials because Wiley does not seem to faced any when researching Ivanov or is the problem one connected with preserving the reputation of major Russian dance institutions  as conservators of Petipa's ballets and his choreography ? Even if Western dance scholars might have experienced problems over access in the past and might do so now  there does not seem to be a biography and evaluation of his work in Russian either.

Edited September 2, 2018 by FLOSS

[Amy]

Hello everyone, allow me to clear up a few things here regarding this book.

 

This book is certainly NOT an opportunity to "cash in on Petipa's bicentenary." That's what the Mariinsky and Bolshoi Theatres have done with their fake homages to Petipa that they held this year.

 

Peter Koppers is one of the most reliable people in the ballet world when it comes to Petipa and ballet history; he is a former dancer with the Dutch National Ballet, is now a teacher and is a very knowledge and excellent historian. I, myself, have learned a lot from him and he is a friend and contact of the likes of Alexei Ratmansky, Doug Fullington and Marian Smith.

 

This book, Three Conversations is a very reliable and valuable source for historical knowledge. It's a combination of fact and fiction because it presents Mr Koppers "having conversations" with Petipa, the Legat Brothers and Pavlova and he made up the conversations by using real quotations with the four people. It's a new and interesting insight into these great four figures of classical ballet; it's a new way to telling the stories of their lives, their careers and their legacies. He lists his sources in the notes on each page.

 

I worked on this book, myself, as an editor and Mr Koppers published it via amazon self-publishing on the advice of Marian Smith, who also read it before it was published.

 

I highly recommend this book because it really shines a new light on Petipa, the Legat brothers, Pavlova and the art form of ballet because there are some very great quotes of wisdom on what ballet is really all about.

 

Thank you.

[Jan McNulty]

Thanks for the information Amy.  It certainly sounds an intriguing book.