Sir Peter Wright

[David]

Many thanks to you both. I have followed your link and ordered a dvd. Don't know what I was looking at to think it wasn't available! I see it was recorded in 2002 which sounds right, as I also distinctly remember recording it on a video casette, now long gone. I look forward to seeing it again.

You can pick it up much cheaper on eBay!!!

[Sim]

I watched this programme tonight and enjoyed it so much that, like Janet I will watch it again. This tribute was made with the dignity and gravitas that befit this amazing man, a living history and embodiment of British ballet.

[Quintus]

In the clip Quintus I can't hear her say Osipova anyway though hear her say Natalya!!

 

Also we have been here before ......because the third thing which comes up on the Google search is our own Forum back in 2014!!

 

 

 

 

Lin - she says the Osipova immediately before the Natalya, not after..   I've isolated it below; the words are 'zdravstvuyte menya zavoot osipova natalya', i.e. hello my name is ..  Have a listen and see what you hear.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/77s2a3mjinb1po8/osipova2.mp3?dl=0

 

I still reckon she is stressing the first syllable, and at any rate it is definitely not how the Beeb have been pronouncing it with stress on the second.  We could go to top spot on Google if we crack this 

Edited December 29, 2016 by Quintus

[FrankH]

I watched this programme on my PC. Despite the imperfect connection, with constant stops for "buffering", I found it compelling viewing. For a newcomer to ballet appreciation, it was also educational and informative. And I was even moved to the extent of a tear in the eye on a couple of occasions.

 

I admit that until two years ago, I would have had no idea who Sir Peter Wright was! Well, now I know how important he has been, and still is, for ballet in this country.

 

There have been some "digs" at the BBC, implying that this sort of excellence is now only possible as a sort of mistake. However I fear this is just the sort of programme which will be lost to "terrestrial" TV, when the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Sun etc. get their way, and the BBC either ceases to exist, or is reduced to a shadow of its present form. And let's have no illusions about this. The most powerful parts of the commercial media in this country want the BBC gone. Then they can have a virtual monopoly to brainwash the public with their particular viewpoints. After all, the Daily Mail etc. present themselves as The Voice of The People, and anyone who doesn't agree wholeheartedly with their viewpoints, e.g. about Brexit, is thus An Enemy of "The People" . Of course the BBC inevitably falls into that category, since it has to try to be impartial.

 

Of course the BBC is not perfect. A lot of imperfect programmes are made, and some very bad ones. In fields which I know a lot more than I do about ballet, there has been undeniably a bit of "dumbing down". For instance, in films about wildlife, there is now too much concentration on the presenters, keen to show us how brave, athletic, humorous, handsome etc.etc. they are. But at the same time, the great Sir David Attenborough is still producing his stuff, and if it weren't for the BBC, I doubt whether they would be available free-to-view.

[Two Pigeons]

It seems to me that when it comes to Brexit vast sections of the BBC are anything but impartial. Anyone who has bothered with the most recent series of Have I Got News for You or the News Quiz will have a very clear idea that Brexit is the invention of the Devil and all 'leavers' his spawn.

 

When it comes to serious news programmes I agree that it does try hard to be impartial but that very fact is always going to leave it subject to criticism from one side or the other.

 

I was criticised for an earlier post which was interpreted differently from my intention. I do not doubt that the BBC is indeed fighting for its survival and I for one would be devastated to see it go. That does not mean that I do not despair at the increased amount of what I regard as down market programming.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Two Pigeons

[David]

It seems to me that when it comes to Brexit vast sections of the BBC are anything but impartial. Anyone who has bothered with the most recent series of Have I Got News for You or the News Quiz will have a very clear idea that Brexit is the invention of the Devil and all 'leavers' his spawn.

 

 

It’s called satire and a great British tradition going back way beyond the eighteenth century, directed against all parts of the political system but primarily against those who happen to be in power at the time and the pompous. We are one of the few peoples in the world who have the capacity to laugh at ourselves and we should cherish it. Anyone is fair game for Have I got News For You  and Mock the Week. The former's been going for over 15 seasons so it must be getting something right. The Brexiteers themselves fall over each other to get on it. The Charlie Hebdo attack was a reminder if one were needed of the importance of satire - oh and incidentally the humour in neither of these shows is nowhere near as vicious as Spitting Image - which was a commercial TV show!! 

Edited December 29, 2016 by David

[aileen]

I wonder whether the Peter Wright programme was made specifically for BBC4 whereas the Nutcracker and Looking for Margot ones were made for the 'main' BBC channels. They are so different in tone and content. If the BBC goes or is hobbled in some way (it has many powerful enemies) we will be much the poorer culturally. Personally, I would miss the radio more as I spend more time listening to Radio 4 than I do to watching television.

[FrankH]

It seems to me that when it comes to Brexit vast sections of the BBC are anything but impartial. Anyone who has bothered with the most recent series of Have I Got News for You or the News Quiz will have a very clear idea that Brexit is the invention of the Devil and all 'leavers' his spawn.

 

 

 

I don't watch the two programmes you mention. I only mentioned Brexit, not as an example of BBC impartiality, but as an example of the very strong, and intolerant, partiality of the newspapers I listed. Whether or not the BBC regards Brexiteers as the "Devil's spawn", it's certain that to the Mail etc., "Bremoaners" as they like to call Remainers, are worse than Devil's spawn - they are unpatriotic, un-British pinko-liberals, etc., and above all "Enemies of The People".  Ex-Archbishop Rowan Williams pointed out recently the almost Stalinist use of "The People" by such organs as the Mail. All who disagree with them are not part of The People, and therefore their views don't count.

 

I am sorry now that I even mentioned Brexit, even as an example of the hate-filled intolerance which characterizes the Mail and other parts of the Press. But since the BBC, imperfect as it is, made or commissioned the programme, and since the BBC is under threat from powerful forces, I thought it right to defend them. 

 

I apologise for the diversion from the main theme of this thread - a fine tribute to a remarkable person.

Edited December 29, 2016 by FrankH

[Sim]

OK folks....can we please keep the talk on this thread to Sir Peter Wright the man or the programme.

 

Thank you!

[David]

I wonder whether the Peter Wright programme was made specifically for BBC4 whereas the Nutcracker and Looking for Margot ones were made for the 'main' BBC channels. They are so different in tone and content. If the BBC goes or is hobbled in some way (it has many powerful enemies) we will be much the poorer culturally. Personally, I would miss the radio more as I spend more time listening to Radio 4 than I do to watching television.

I don't know the commissioning arrangements for the diffferent BBC channels but is not the point that they are carefully targeted towards specific and quite different audiences and this will be reflected in different tone and content? I assume BBC4 is aimed at minority groups, including I'm sad to say, the likes of us, while BBC1 and 2 look to the different parts of the wider audience. Like Two Pigeons above I have despaired at the gradual dumbing down of the BBC content over the past decade or so and had high hopes that this decline might be reversed with the appointment of Tony Hall as the Corporation's Director General and his stated intention to re-balance its focus towards the Arts. Given the savage cuts the BBC has faced along with John Whittingdale's undisguised hostility, he faced an uphill battle no matter now sincere his intentions. I really do think though that at last one can detect a positive shift across the three BBC channels; I may be kidding myself - it's no sea-change but I am finding more to enjoy and instruct across a wider spectrum!

[aileen]

It's amazing that a ballet like Las Hermanas was filmed for the BBC and shown on mainstream television (I must say that Monica Mason was very arresting in the clip that was shown). It demonstrates how much more high-brow the BBC was in the past. These days, there is great concern about ratings and this inevitably has an effect on programming choices plus, I think, it partly accounts for the ubiquitousness of certain presenters who seem to pop up everywhere.

[Jacqueline]

You can pick it up much cheaper on eBay!!!

Thanks for that, I did find one on ebay for about 8 pounds or thereabouts, but it was preloved as it were. I want one that's never been loved before!

 

 

As to your comments re: the BBC, in my opinion there have been some absolute gems on over these festivities, some good drama - particularly the new Agatha Christie, wonderful animation such as Revolting Rhymes, the documentaries discussed here and there is still more to come.

Having been adrift in recent years, in a seemingly unstoppable tide of dumbed down, hold my hand and I'll walk you through it slowly dross, there is hopefully some light if progs such as the Sir Peter Wright one can not only be commissioned, but so skillfully realised.

As the saying goes, beauty fades but dumb is forever. Perhaps though, even dumb has a shelf life. We can hope!

[Amelia]

Lin - she says the Osipova immediately before the Natalya, not after..  

 

If you, Quintus, are not a native Russian speaker, full marks to you for spotting Natalya's pronunciation of her surname.

She was almost 'swallowing' it. I can guess why - she is a genuinely modest girl and would have been embarrassed to emphasise  her name on purpose as if proposing to the listeners to remember it.

She can say it as she likes because her speech sounds perfectly Russian anyway. However, if a non-Russian speaker wants to pronounce  her name correctly, it is important to stress the first 'O'. Not like 'ou' but like prolonged 'ooo': Ooosipova! Sorry if I am repeating myself. It seems to me that we had a similar discussion some years ago. 

Edited December 29, 2016 by Amelia

[Jan McNulty]

Would none of the other syllables be stressed Amelia?

[David]

It's amazing that a ballet like Las Hermanas was filmed for the BBC and shown on mainstream television (I must say that Monica Mason was very arresting in the clip that was shown). It demonstrates how much more high-brow the BBC was in the past.

 

I fear Aileen that present generations have no understanding whatsoever of the crucial all-important role the BBC played in developing the cultural life of this country after the war – both with the introduction of the Third Programme on radio and then with the powerful focus on the arts in its burgeoning television services. To take a simple and dance-related example I remember a performance of the original French text of Oscar Wilde’s Salomé without sub-titles (!!!) by French National Television back in 1973 with the French Prima Ballerina Ludmilla Tcherina in the title role, aired by the BBC not once but twice in the same year. Unimaginable today! And it was Margaret Dale’s 12 or so BBC ballet films, referred to endearingly as Maggie by Peter Wright in the documentary we are discussing (you see Sim I can stay on topic!) and the regular ballet appearances on the BBC that sparked my interest in Dance. I had not really taken on board the part that Peter Wright played in that incredible resurgence of the arts that the BBC fostered in those crucial post-war years but if one goes to the biographies of people like Britten, Constant Lambert and so on, one gets a sense of what the arts could have been without the all-pervasive influence and sponsorship of the BBC!   

Edited December 29, 2016 by David

[LinMM]

I still cannot hear her say Osipova for the life of me and I've played it through numerous times!

 

But never mind as is a distraction from the main theme of the thread

Most English would probably stress the "Pova" bit of the name but when Russians say it is more on the "si" but not heavily so just a slight stress. And definitely "O" at the beginning ........where as the unstressed Pova sounds more like "pava"

 

Still haven't seen the programme!!

[Pas de Quatre]

I think it is also important to remember all the ballet touring during the war, to provincial theatres and also to entertain the troops. Ballet was not considered elitist then in the same way it is sometimes today. Fonteyn was a household word because so many people had seen her dance live. So the opportunity to reach out with BBC programmes about ballet was still seen as mainstream rather than minority interest.

[FrankH]

May I just apologise to Two Pigeons that, on reading back, my last reply seems curt and ill-tempered. "I don't watch the two programmes you mention" is a statement of fact, not a put-down, as if they were not worth watching - as I don't watch them, how would I know? The fact that you and David watch them shows that they do have considerable value.

 

And you will realise that I agree with you on the question of the general "dumbing down" of the BBC in recent years. And this does have some relevance to the subject of the Sir Peter Wright programme - very clearly a case of not dumbing down.

 

It gives a little hope that some posters on this forum think they can discern an upturn in standards, of which the SPW programme may be a sign. Perhaps the attacks on the BBC, and its tightening budgets, may result in a greater emphasis on intellectual quality, rather than on superficial showmanship.

 

And the "dumbing down" phenomenon is sadly a feature of society in general, and in some other fields to a far greater extent than in the BBC.

[Two Pigeons]

No offence taken at all FrankH. I think we are agreed on far more than that which we might dispute.

 

I would like to say that since I first saw SWRB in May 1979 but particularly after I saw his production of Giselle at the old Sadler's Wells Theatre in 1982 Sir Peter Wright has been my greatest ballet hero and I am so thrilled at the timely and appropriate recognition he has received this year.

[Fonty]

 

And the "dumbing down" phenomenon is sadly a feature of society in general, and in some other fields to a far greater extent than in the BBC.

 

Sadly, I fear this is true.  But this has been going on for a long time, hasn't it?

 

Going back to my own childhood, my parents' idea of dumbing down was when the television broadcast a Gilbert & Sullivan light opera, rather than a proper one! 

[Amelia]

Would none of the other syllables be stressed Amelia?

 

No, Janet, in any word it can be only one stressed vowel/syllable. Those who are keen on training can try:

 

OOOsipova, NOOOvikova, PAAAvlova (not PavlOva), SharAAApova (not SharapOva).

 

But: SmirnOOOva, KolpakOOOva, PetrOOOva.

 

I apologise for this digression into Russian orthoepy.

 

[Jan McNulty]

Thanks Amelia!

[Quintus]

 

No, Janet, in any word it can be only one stressed vowel/syllable. Those who are keen on training can try:

 

OOOsipova, NOOOvikova, PAAAvlova (not PavlOva), SharAAApova (not SharapOva).

 

 

 

 

Thank you! OOOsipova - That's what I heard her say in the clip I posted, phew......  So, BBC, get it right, no more ahSEEpava !!

 

by the way Amelia, to save me poring over more Youtube interviews,  is it ZarAKHova and SemiONova ?

[Amelia]

Thank you! OOOsipova - That's what I heard her say in the clip I posted, phew......  So, BBC, get it right, no more ahSEEpava !!

 

by the way Amelia, to save me poring over more Youtube interviews,  is it ZarAKHova and SemiONova ?

 

The stress is correct but you misspelt ZakhArova. She is SvetlAna ZakhArova.

[Quintus]

yes, my clumsy typing! thanks.

[alison]

We have a thread solely devoted to pronunciation, I think of Russian names, here:

http://www.balletcoforum.com/index.php?/topic/5763-how-does-one-pronounce/?hl=pronunciation#entry73957

I may move the relevant parts of this thread into it later.

[capybara]

Getting back to Sir Peter......... I have now watched the programme with great interest.

 

Does his book cover the reasons why he was not appointed RB Director when Kenneth MacMillan stepped down? Not inviting speculation - just wondering if he mentions it.

[Odyssey]

Yes he does. In discussing events, surrounding Macmillan's resignation he notes, that Macmillan had told him of his decision and they went together to see Sir John Tooley ( director of Royal Opera House). At the time Peter was Director of Sadler Wells. and had worked with Macmillan as his deputy at the Royal Ballet. He comments he would have considered it very seriously if he had been approached to take over then but he wasn't. He states "What upset me then-and still upsets me now-was ...I was never consulted."

Later he confirms that he didn't apply for the post when it was formally advertised. Elsewhere he states in his typically frank expression,"I have been described as the best director that the Royal Ballet never had."

This is a very brief overview of what is a more detailed discussion of this period.

Fortunately for BRB, he was able to use his talents elsewhere.

[Geoff]

During my time working - in Sir John Tooley's long and illustrious era - at the Royal Opera House I was taken aside by an older and more experienced member of staff, who explained that as I was not a Freemason I would have to reconcile myself to never getting serious promotion "at the House". I am not suggesting such factors played any part in the non-appointment of Sir Peter Wright but it was a good lesson for me as a young man to learn that not all advancement in life is due to merit alone.

 

As to Sir Peter I believe the Royal Ballet board at the time were influenced by some less than wholly relevant considerations. Pity. Maybe one day a serious historian will be given access to the relevant board minutes or other contemporaneous records.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Geoff

[bangorballetboy]

During my time working - in Sir John Tooley's long and illustrious era - at the Royal Opera House I was taken aside by an older and more experienced member of staff, who explained that as I was not a Freemason I would have to reconcile myself to never getting serious promotion "at the House".

 

Comments such as those as you were told come up all over the place and, personally, I always take them with a very large pinch of salt.

[JCS]

For those of us in the UK, I found The Ballet Master: Sir Peter Wright at 90 (as well as Dancing the Nutcracker - Inside the Royal Ballet and Darcey Bussell: Looking for Margot) available for purchase as a download in BBC Store.

[cavycapers]

Glorious, so good, I watched it twice straight through, and I know I will be going back to this documentary many, many times! One of the best presents I got this Christmas.

[LinMM]

Amelia I will pm you as I still have a problem with the pronounciation of Osipova .....as has four syllables not three ....so hopefully can sort out in private!!