Doing more than one grade at a time

[junedancer]

Could other dance mum be jealous?

 

No, nothing to be jealous of - I think she just feels we are moving too fast - that I am pushing too hard.

[sarahw]

I agree probably jealous....

[Legseleven]

This is a familiar scenario, junedancer. We have dealt with the same and similar situations by smiling, thanking the other parent for their advice and suggesting that if they are worried about my DD then they should talk to the teacher about it, as it was at her suggestion that your daughter will join the grade above her own. I'm willing to bet that she won't ask the teacher - but if she does then the teacher will confirm that she made the suggestion (and clearly because she thinks this will be a good solution for your daughter).

 

Unfortunately this kind of comment is something you will come across in the dance world - but it also happens in the worlds of music, sport etc. You asked for the teacher's advice and she suggested that your daughter could take the next grade class in addition to her own. Whether other parents agree/think this is 'fair' is not your concern. They can take it up with the teacher if they have a problem with it.

 

Wishing your daughter much joy in her extra class(es)!

[hfbrew]

 

Hmm. Sure that this is a friend?

 

You do what's best for your daughter as guided by your teacher based on your daughters enthusiasm. That is not being pushy, that is being prepared as a mum to support your daughter's current passion!

 

I've seen pushy parents and believe me, you are not guilty.

 

For what it's worth the keen students really benefit from doing a Grade above, it helps with the understanding of how technique is developed in order to perform ever more complex steps.

[Harwel]

Totally agree hfbrew!

[tropicmama]

Don't worry junedancer, it's not just you.  I have been told in the past by another mum that I was "overdoing" it, which stunned me to silence as surely no one knows our children more than we do and for them to judge is uncalled for.  For example, she doesn't know that it is my daughter who asks for more and more ballet lessons and I cannot see the problem with that as long as I can afford it.  It makes her happy, focused, determined and more importantly, her commitment to something spills over to other aspects of her life: school, sports, etc.  She always comes out of dance bouncing and energetic, she never seems to be tired even at night, and often I have to tell her to stop reading and sleep already.  What others might see as "pushing" might actually be nurturing our child's interests and passions as long as the enthusiasm is there and they are not just coping but thriving beautifully, I can't see why other people would have a problem with it.

[balletbean]

What grade would you expect to start IF dancer344? 

 

MuddledMama, can I ask how old your DD was?

If I can jump in, I was led to believe that students were at Grade 4 level before starting IF. 

 

They are old enough and physically developed enough to be at that pre pointe stage required at the beginning. IF should take about 2 years of training to take the exam.

 

RAD do also set their own Age guidelines on their exams on their website.   

[Colman]

 

One drawback though is that if they remain in their original group for exam work then it may get repetitive. eg if she is doing grade 4 exam but also taking grade 5 classes as an extra and then moves up to grade 5 'officially' how would your daughter feel about the fact she's already covered that work? 

 

It occurs to me that if their brain works like a dancer's then they'll think something along the lines of "Great, a chance to get this stuff right." :-) 

 

Anyway, hopefully at that point she'd be doing the next grade up as the add-on, so she'd be kept busy enough.

[Colman]

 

 

Okay so I thought I was doing well but have just been berated by another Dance Mum who has accused me of being pushy saying that this is one of the things that teachers hate - Mums pushing to get the grades done

 

No: if you'd gone to her and said "She should be doing a higher grade", that's one thing, with a high risk of being pushy. "She wants more classes" and teacher suggests doing the next grade too is another, and not pushy. "I'd like to give you more business" is not pushy. 

 

Our 8 year old boy does both the classes he can get at his grade and one (sometimes two if we're early on a Saturday) at the grade below just to get the hours in - and a chance to work on the basics some more. He'd do a grade higher except it's a new school in a new area and there aren't any higher grades available near his age cohort. There's one more class he could do but we haven't told him because we need that evening for other stuff and he'd want to go!

 

I'm quite sure that there are parents muttering about the hours he puts in - I think only he and one other boy in the school do comparable hours, and maybe a couple of the girls - but to blazes with them, he's having fun. 

[taxi4ballet]

If I can jump in, I was led to believe that students were at Grade 4 level before starting IF. 

 

They are old enough and physically developed enough to be at that pre pointe stage required at the beginning. IF should take about 2 years of training to take the exam.

 

RAD do also set their own Age guidelines on their exams on their website.   

The RAD says that you have to be 11 before you can take the I/F exam, so if it takes up to two years to study, then theoretically you could start in that grade as early as 9.

 

If you start I/F at 11, and take it at 13, and add on two more years for each vocational grade then you would be 21 by the time you got around to taking the Adv 2 exam. Yet the RAD says that you can take Adv 2 aged 15. The only way to achieve that would be to take classes in more than one grade at a time. 

[Pointetoes]

DD started Intermediate when she was Grade 6, which was when she moved schools andmoved from Cecchetti to RAD. Up until this point she had only studied one grade at a time. She enjoyed the challenge of the two different levels, 2 classes of each. She is now Grade 8 and taking her Inter next month.

It would never have occurred to me to ask her to do this if it hadn't been offered. Having said that we were at a school where everyone was terrified of the owner/ teacher so you simply didn't questioned her.

However if we had been at our current school and DD had started to ask for more, I wouldn't have thought twice about asking and seeking advice from her teachers.

 

As for starting IF, some of the pupils at DDs school started it when they are Grade 3, some wait until Grade 5 ( DD skipped it ) Some are never asked to join the IF class. It really is about ability, strength rather than grade level plus RAD did have minimum ages.

[Guest]

Yup. My dd started IF aged 10 years (in parallel with Grade 5 where she was close to exam standard). She also overlapped some Intermediate classes before she took her IF exam. Its a good way to study each syllabus in depth and still get the progression. The pointe work for IF was left until the  end when she was 12 - there's not much of it anyway and it can be learned in a few weeks. Would just add that although doing several graded classes a week is great, don't neglect the benefits of non syllabus work such as workshops.

[Lisa O`Brien]

DD started Intermediate when she was Grade 6, which was when she moved schools andmoved from Cecchetti to RAD. Up until this point she had only studied one grade at a time. She enjoyed the challenge of the two different levels, 2 classes of each. She is now Grade 8 and taking her Inter next month.

It would never have occurred to me to ask her to do this if it hadn't been offered. Having said that we were at a school where everyone was terrified of the owner/ teacher so you simply didn't questioned her.

However if we had been at our current school and DD had started to ask for more, I wouldn't have thought twice about asking and seeking advice from her teachers.

 

As for starting IF, some of the pupils at DDs school started it when they are Grade 3, some wait until Grade 5 ( DD skipped it ) Some are never asked to join the IF class. It really is about ability, strength rather than grade level plus RAD did have minimum ages.

"Everyone was terrified of the owner/teacher".  What ??

Edited November 25, 2016 by Lisa O`Brien

[Pointetoes]

She is one of those people who you simply don't question. Her heart is in the right place BUT she is v old school. DD learnt an awful lot from her and one thing she struggles with is children not respecting teachers

[balletbean]

The RAD says that you have to be 11 before you can take the I/F exam, so if it takes up to two years to study, then theoretically you could start in that grade as early as 9.

 

I agree, however my DD's teacher won't let the girls start IF until 11 or is Grade 4. She is 'old school' and is of the opinion that girls any younger don't have a solid technique and physically developed to be ready for pointe work. They then appear to work quite quickly through Inter and onto Adv1. As they are then 'focused and prepared for the syllabus' those just attending ballet as a hobby have gradually dropped out and the class are all serious about their training and heading towards Vocational school for 16+ or MT college.  

 

Sometimes there just is not enough room for any additional students to join another class, no matter how focused a pupil may be. Which sadly can occur at some studios. 

[taxi4ballet]

You don't have to do the actual pointework in I/F until a few weeks before you actually take the exam, there isn't all that much, and it can be practised on demi-pointe till then. So you don't need to wait until you are ready for pointe before you start that grade. My dd started I/F alongside grades 3 & 4 when she was 10 and got her pointes at 11. 

[Legseleven]

We also came across several parents whose daughters danced at another dance school, who told us that our girls' feet would be irrevocably damaged by taking RAD classes because they were allowed to take (and were ready to take) Intermediate Foundation at 11, because it includes a very small amount of pointe work. They followed another syllabus and their teacher apparently told them that she would never allow a student who hadn't passed grade 5 and was at least 12, preferably 13, to begin pointe work (or to start the vocational grade work), because without grade 5 under their belts they wouldn't be strong enough and would 'ruin' their feet and any chance of dancing professionally.

 

Having seen one of these girls dancing at a festival, I know what I think of that teacher's view of appropriate training and standards. However, surely a teacher who wants the best for each individual student will appreciate that just as not every 9/10/11 year old is allowed to join the vocational grades classes at DD's school and each is assessed individually, including considering their emotional maturity as well as their facility/strength/ability, it can't be appropriate to hold every student back from starting pointe work until they have passed a grade 5 exam and are whatever age is deemed appropriate? Every student is different and some will be ready earlier and need and thrive on challenge. It does worry me that there may be an element of making sure that students are kept in classes for longer by imposing this kind of rule, rather than allowing each student to start vocational grades and pointe work when she herself is ready.

[Balletmum55]

I think the RAD guidelines of 11 for IF are the minimum age, not the recommeded age, and thus allows for those advanced dancers to take the exam once ready (plus vocational school year 7s) but ensures that pointe work in exams is not taken very early, regardless of ability. The RAD issue guidelines to say that in most cases pointe work should not even start until age 12 due to the development of bones in the feet.

My daughter started IF age 10 as her dance teacher thought she was ready, but her dance teacher doesn't put girls en pointe until age 12, if they're ready.

[Bluebird22]

I've got 13/14 year olds not en pointe as I just don't think their feet are strong enough or suitable for pointe. They dance as hobby or because they really want to act but being able to dance gives them more scope in terms of colleges. I don't think pointe should be a given for every single girl who attends a dance class, nor should it be something that you can have at a certain age or grade. Each child should be viewed individually, I've had 10 year olds go onto pointe and be absolutely brilliant but that doesn't mean every 10 year old should get pointe shoes.

[balletbean]

It's very interesting reading all these posts, and hopefully all our children are being trained correctly by their teachers.

 

Teachers that are making the right decisions for the best of their individual students and not the prestige of putting their very young girls onto pointe.

 

To me at the end of the day I feel it's the exam results that count. It's not a race after all to reach IF  (pointework) or even Adv 2 (as witnessed by some at a SS) but the quality of the teaching and training that the children receive on the way. 

 

Good Luck to everyone on their journey to reach their goal. No matter how long and at what age that happens.

[Legseleven]

I couldn't agree more, Bluebird22. Individual children have individual capacities, abilities, physiologies and aspirations and should be considered individually in terms of appropriate grade/s and age at which pointe work is safely introduced - if ever, as you say.

[Moomin]

personally I think minimum of age 12 and pass of grade 5 is a sensible starting point. It's not that high a level of technique. Don't forget that if it is a different syllabus there may be 6 grades and a minimum of age 12 for IF. I agree that there should be individual assesments, I just don't really see the need to start at 10, i thought that was one of the reasons that IF is optional. we all want the best for our children and make the best choices we can, it's no criticism but certainly a lot of teachers and shoe fitters have 12 as a minimum age

[taxi4ballet]

The thing is... you don't have to go on pointe when you start I/F at all.

 

It is a tiny part of the syllabus, and can be learned on demi pointe in any case. When the student is mature enough physically and has developed enough strength and correct technique, then they can start pointe - which is often when they are almost ready to take the exam.

[Anon2]

The thing is... you don't have to go on pointe when you start I/F at all.

 

It is a tiny part of the syllabus, and can be learned on demi pointe in any case. When the student is mature enough physically and has developed enough strength and correct technique, then they can start pointe - which is often when they are almost ready to take the exam.

Which my dd did too. And got a very good mark. Spent the any spare time from starting IF to being ready to get her first pointe shoes doing the foot strengthening exercises as instructed by her teacher. Moving into the vocational grades was something the teacher assessed each individual child for, not all girls have the facility to do pointe work regardless of how good they are in the syllabus classes.

[Guest]

The thing is... you don't have to go on pointe when you start I/F at all.

 

It is a tiny part of the syllabus, and can be learned on demi pointe in any case. When the student is mature enough physically and has developed enough strength and correct technique, then they can start pointe - which is often when they are almost ready to take the exam.

 

exactly my point(e)

[Confuddled]

The thread has moved on a bit (I know nothing about pointe!) but my daughter has been doing the grade above for over a year. So Grade 1 (an hour and a half), Grade 2 (45 minutes) and a mixed Grade 2 and 3 class (45 minutes). She found it too much and stopped for a couple of terms (she was only 7) but missed it and went back to it. The keen dancers at her are all encouraged to do this, though not all of them can for various reasons.

 

I suspect that her teacher will want her to keep up the same number of hours as she moves up the grades, and so she'll always be doing her current grade, the grade above and the mixed grade above / grade above that class. I'm not sure how that's going to work in terms of scheduling, though, as of course the days / times will change.

[taxi4ballet]

Don't forget that if it is a different syllabus there may be 6 grades and a minimum of age 12 for IF. 

Yes, I'm talking about RAD, whereas I believe that the ISTD I/F may be more challenging. As with all these things, the advice of the teacher is paramount.

[Pixiewoo]

DD would love to do another ballet class but the next grades up for her either clash with a class she is already taking, or are on the one day she doesn't dance and she really needs that break to rest (and do homework!)

[Anon2]

The thread has moved on a bit (I know nothing about pointe!) but my daughter has been doing the grade above for over a year. So Grade 1 (an hour and a half), Grade 2 (45 minutes) and a mixed Grade 2 and 3 class (45 minutes). She found it too much and stopped for a couple of terms (she was only 7) but missed it and went back to it. The keen dancers at her are all encouraged to do this, though not all of them can for various reasons.

 

I suspect that her teacher will want her to keep up the same number of hours as she moves up the grades, and so she'll always be doing her current grade, the grade above and the mixed grade above / grade above that class. I'm not sure how that's going to work in terms of scheduling, though, as of course the days / times will change.

That sounds like a lot of ballet for a 7 year old?

[Confuddled]

That sounds like a lot of ballet for a 7 year old?

It was, which is why she dropped down to 1 1/2 hours. But then missed the challenge of doing the next grade up work and asked to go back to it. It's all very much driven by her, if she wants to drop the grade above class any time she can and she knows it. But she loves doing the harder stuff and being with the older girls.

[ponklemum]

My dd has been doing 2 grades since last sept (2015). She's in grades 1 and 2 (Rad) and will be taking the grade 1 in march. She'll then leave that grade one class and take grade 3 classes. Same for the summer when she'll do her grade 2 and consequently move to grade 4. My ds has also just started doing 2 classes, primary and grade 1.