private lessons for children at vocational school

[Pups_mum]

Also do your local teachers never take a holiday themselves? Even if we wanted classes over the holidays all of our local schools are on holiday themselves!

The principal of my DD's school hardly ever takes holidays - she's a (wonderful) workaholic! The school officially closes at the end of the academic school term, but then there's a week of summer school, and after that whilst there are no "normal" classes there is private or small group teaching throughout the holidays, particularly for students with exams coming up. The principal does take a week or two off but there are 2 other teachers too and there's usually at least one of them in teaching on most days through the holidays. Apart from if we are actually away on holiday ourselves my DD has lessons pretty much all year round. I hadn't realised that this wasn't the norm, sounds like we are very lucky -I must tell DD to give her teachers extra hugs this week!

[Gingerbread]

Last year, DD had a series of private lessons with a respected teacher.

As well as giving tuition to my DD,(not at vocational school) she was also coaching pupils from the 3 main vocational schools that you have all heard of. It was very interesting.

Rowan, you make a good point about the gilded cage!

[JulieW]

I think parents need to be braver - if I had wanted my son to audition for another school I wouldn't have had any qualms about approaching his current school (either of them) to say that's where he was going. They're not daft - they know people audition elsewhere - and you've only got to tell them it's easier to travel there if you don't want it to sound like you don't like the current one. I also don't like my children having to lie about their whereabouts - much easier if everyone's just honest imho.

 

(And no, I'm not naive - I've had my fair share of "run-ins" with schools/teachers and worried about the consequences for my child on occasions - but as I say - honesty helps everyone in the long run)

[aileen]

My feelings are these:

 

1 If a parent feels that the training at the DC's school is not "good enough" or that it is not meeting the DC's needs then it is reasonable to arrange private lessons whether the school likes it or not (I would not ask for permission).

 

2 The schools' assessing-out policies demonstrate that they have little loyalty or commitment to their students and, consequently, they cannot expect the students to feel loyalty or commitment in return or be disappointed if their students audition for other schools.

 

3 The ballet world is incredibly competitive and students are therefore going to do everything they can to achieve their dream and that includes secetly auditioning for other schools and having (sometimes many) private lessons behind the schools' backs.

 

4 More controversially, it sounds as though some schools are not really able to provide classical ballet training which is of a standard that gives the students a fighting chance of succeeding in a career in ballet.

 

 

4 More controversially, it sounds as if some of these schools are not providing

 

 

[taxi4ballet]

We know of a boy at vocational school who was also a gifted tap dancer, but hardly did any tap at the school. He took private lessons in tap for that reason.

[JulieW]

2 The schools' assessing-out policies demonstrate that they have little loyalty or commitment to their students and, consequently, they cannot expect the students to feel loyalty or commitment in return or be disappointed if their students audition for other schools.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point - I don't think the assessment/appraisal system at the schools shows that they "have no loyalty or commitment to their students". Even having had my son assessed out, and perhaps feeling that they could've given him a bit more time (and that maybe they were wrong as he starts work as a classical dancer this summer ), I believe that they have the students' best interests at heart and want them to do the best they can. Surely noone thinks that a school should take a student into year 7 and have to demonstrate their loyalty and commitment to them by keeping them on despite not believing it's the right place for them to be?

 

I do agree that schools shouldn't be surprised if students do audition elsewhere - it's not always because they think another school is better (although of course that might be the case - our other thread on "rankings" demonstrates that) but more usually students might be worried that they could be "assessed out" and want to see what else might be available.

 

What we do need to see in schools, dance or "normal", is that parents feel they can talk about concerns more freely.

[tutoo2much]

 

I didn't really mean vocational students returning to their old dance teachers for the odd lesson, catch-up, or opportunity to work on a specific problem. Rather students seeking out renowned teachers for a almost paralell training as Gingerbread described.

 

So is it common for pupils to audition at other schools in case they are assessed out or wait until they are? I suppose the other thing is that an audition can be an enjoyable experience in itself and a useful skill even if you are not planning to change schools. Seems a big gap betweeen auditioning at 11 and then again at 16!

[JulieW]

Wouldn't say it's common tutoo2much - only a few people try that approach (auditioning just in case...). We arranged an audition after we got our news

[aileen]

Julie, perhaps I should have said that as students know that they do not have a guaranteed long-term future with their school they do think about auditioning elsewhere and feel that they have to take responsibility for their own training and development which may mean taking additional private lessons. Realistically, if a teacher starts to suspect that a student may be leaving the school s/he may begin to lose interest in a student and put less effort into him/her.

[JulieW]

I know what you mean, but just from personal experience, we always knew my son was one of the weaker ones in the year (if you can be called weak being one of 10 boys selected for the Royal Ballet School - as an ex-RB dancer said to us recently ) but his actual ballet teachers always put just as much effort into his training as anyone else (the decision for him to leave came from above, not from his teachers who were sad to see him go). He even progressed really well in his last summer term.

 

Of course others might not have had the same experience as us

[swe]

Whilst it's always good to have a debate on things, my view is that it is up to the parents and child what they want to do-and nobody should feel guilty for wanting private lessons. As parents we just do our best (with or without 'permission'). Bottom line is we can have an opinion but it's really none of our business what others do!

[JulieW]

Sorry I went off on a bit of a tangent about auditioning for other schools so back to the question of private lessons for vocational students - Swe, you're quite right, and I don't think anyone on here has really criticised anyone for either view - it's been interesting to see different views

[hfbrew]

I know what you mean, but just from personal experience, we always knew my son was one of the weaker ones in the year (if you can be called weak being one of 10 boys selected for the Royal Ballet School - as an ex-RB dancer said to us recently ) but his actual ballet teachers always put just as much effort into his training as anyone else (the decision for him to leave came from above, not from his teachers who were sad to see him go). He even progressed really well in his last summer term.

 

Of course others might not have had the same experience as us

I have to agree with Julie, my son was also one of the "weaker" ones but his actual ballet teachers did put just as much ,if not more effort into his training. For example as I've already mentioned he had specific coaching to address the weaknesses that could have led to him also being assessed out. He was one of the lucky ones who survived- the previous year he had a close shave but we were told that they'd taken growth into account. And I have to say that even though DS didn't make it to US, his WL teachers still take an active interest into his progress, and I am sure the same can be said for JulieWs DS too. Sometimes assessing out really is in a pupils best interests as not everyone can thrive in any one school.

 

And this goes full circle to the issue of private lessons. Even in schools where assessing out is not a threat, students may find that they wish to look at other places if their needs aren't being met. And it makes sense to prepare for auditions by having a couple of private lessons if possible, especially if you are seeking a year 12 place when there is no guarantee of sixth form funding from your existing school.

 

I do think being open and honest helps, however unfortunately some schools really do make it quite difficult for students to do this.

[Gingerbread]

Whilst it's always good to have a debate on things, my view is that it is up to the parents and child what they want to do-and nobody should feel guilty for wanting private lessons. As parents we just do our best (with or without 'permission'). Bottom line is we can have an opinion but it's really none of our business what others do!

that depends though on whether funding is being received from the vocational school in question, I would think.

[taxi4ballet]

that depends though on whether funding is being received from the vocational school in question, I would think.

 

Not entirely sure what you mean, because unless it is a specific scholarship, the funding comes not from the school, but from the Government.

[Jellybeans]

I would still think, on the basis that parents presumably pay for the private lessons, that it is up to them if they want to spend extra money!

[rowan]

I think Gingerbread's point about funded places is interesting; it's something I haven't thought of. Could a child's funded / means tested / bursary place be removed if a school discovered that a child was secretly having paid private lessons elsewhere that parents clearly were able to fund? Again, I hope no one takes offence; I completely understand all the reasons that have been mentioned why children take private lessons but I'm just interested in what the vocational school policies and rules are. Has anyone ever been "told off", or worse, for taking private lessons?

[Tulip]

I know at my daughter dance school a private lesson can be provided, but with permission and at a cost. I presume this service is available to anyone who may need it.

[primrose]

I think that funding can be removed from a student for various reasons.Taking private lessons, summer schools, auditions without asking the schools permission is in effect breaking the contract. So if the school wants to take things further I suppose the student doesnt have a leg to stand on (pardon the pun).

[CeliB]

Clearly I am amazingly naive, as DS goes to his former ballet teacher whenever he is home for holidays (he doesn't like to go a long time without class and he adores her and all her other students, who range from 16-70+, and have followed his progress with interest and overwhelming warmth) and he has also applied to RBS summer school and it never occurred to me to ask permission (though he is on a 100% scholarship). In fact his vocational school teacher's comment was only that DS should be quite clear about what he wants for his training (he is quite honest that he fears RBS will try and poach DS) but there was no suggestion that DS shouldn't have applied.... clearly this is unusual!