Do you think "good dancers" are often priced out of becoming "exceptional dancers"? Thoughts please.

[mumof6]

Hi. I thought I would start this new thread as this subject is one that I have wondered about for a while. I see lots of dance opportunities such as workshops, summer schools, associate schemes, the recent opportunity for children to become involved in a ballet etc that I would love for my daughter to do.

 

Unfortunately they are often costly (on top of general dance tuition) so I am pretty much prevented from applying. I would have really loved for my daughter to have done a summer school this year but I just couldnt afford it.

 

Private lessons are also costly. She is not my only child and family finances only go so far. I dont know much about dance but I think my daughter is probably a talented and good dancer but not exceptional or extremely talented. This means that she probably wouldnt get a  scholarships etc if they were available

 

.I suppose what I am trying to say is that, do any of you ever feel "priced out" of your child having the opportunity to reach their potential, improve etc. Most of the kids that I have seen get to good schools and get scholorships/funding are kids that already seem to have more classes, private lessons, summer schools etc so whilst I am not taking anything away from them in terms of talent or potential they do have a head start. 

 

When I win the lottery (I had better start buying tickets) amongst other things I am going to set up a fully funded school with fantastic training that takes the "good" kids rather that the exceptional ones. Maybe then our good little dancers could have the opportunity to become exceptional dancers.

 

I would be interested in your thoughts, experience re the feeling of being "priced out"

 

i would like to give you a little but of hope my eldest son goes to a dance academy doing a phd in dance, we dont have alot of money he is the eldest of 6 children, he is lucky his loan and grant cover his tuition and living. he only went to street dance twice a week from 10 to 16, then a community college, he has just passed his 1st year with highest marks you can get and just had his 1st proffesional job dancing in a bollywood movie in india at age 19. also my daughter 11 has just got a scholorship and she was only ever taught to dance by my son at home she only started a street dance class about 10 months ago, so there is still hope my kids have not suffered at all from being priced out, they have such passion and determinatation and i think that has shone through.

[joyofdance]

i would like to give you a little but of hope my eldest son goes to a dance academy doing a phd in dance, we dont have alot of money he is the eldest of 6 children, he is lucky his loan and grant cover his tuition and living. he only went to street dance twice a week from 10 to 16, then a community college, he has just passed his 1st year with highest marks you can get and just had his 1st proffesional job dancing in a bollywood movie in india at age 19. also my daughter 11 has just got a scholorship and she was only ever taught to dance by my son at home she only started a street dance class about 10 months ago, so there is still hope my kids have not suffered at all from being priced out, they have such passion and determinatation and i think that has shone through.

Wow, they sound like they are very talented. Well done to them. you must be very proud.

[sarahw]

Mumof6 - what talented kids!! You must be so proud. ..

Edited August 22, 2016 by sarahw

[sarahw]

Annaliesey how was the J Ellison SS?

[Katymac]

I was thinking about this and realised that DD (& us) have been very, very lucky!

 

DD's initial classes & competitions were in Latin & Ballroom & not paid for as her Dad taught at the school in exchange

 

She often did 'summer schools' at the local theatre group as I worked from home and it was a cheap form of childcare for her post 11

 

When she decided on Ballet, the teacher put her in the appropriate age class (for Grade 5) which we paid for but she was expected to attend as many of the other classes (Grades 1-4) as she could manage at no cost because "She had to learn the stuff" then after a year she was a helper so no fees just exams to pay for

At the same time she started the CAT - full MDS

 

When Jazz & Tap were added, the second class was at 60% the third at 50% (same uniform different shoes)

 

She left the CAT & started a heavily subsidised 'associate-type' scheme £10 a week for 4.5hrs of class

 

We paid in full for LSC associates - possibly one of the few things we paid for in 'full' along with some summer schools/workshops/taster days - Watkins, Tring, Hammond, Arts Ed Urdang & Millennium.  Well actually it was birthday & Christmas money from everyone one we knew (DH & my birthday & Christmas money too) - done in just 2 years I think

 

We saw shows using Tesco vouchers & Kids week (so virtually now cost) DH is exTrain driver so all our travel has been subsidised and we took porridge pots and sandwiches with us everywhere!!

 

When she went to the prevoc - her 'university' saving (from my mum's savings and my Dad's loose change) paid for the course and our tax credits & child benefit paid for her accommodation/food/uniform

 

& now she has fees paid and a bursary

 

No way on the planet could we have afforded to pay for it all in full - no way!!

 

But the way it happened? Serendipity I think

[Tulip]

It's so lovely to hear how well our forum children are doing. We are all lucky to support each other. What suits one child/family doesn't always suit another family. brilliant to share experiences and opinions with advice at times.

[Lisa O`Brien]

Lisa you did very well didn't you to have the career you did? Broke the mould...

I largely have Leonie Urdang to thank. Trafford Council awarded me a grant. The fees were I think £1,200 a term. [1984]. They gave me £600 a term. I got the letter with my award on the actual morning I was setting off to move to London. Was in floods of tears as it was nowhere near enough. My mum got on the phone to the council. The woman said it was up to the parents to pay the rest. What the hell with? My mum only had one lung thanks to TB when she was 21 but not one person advised her she was entitled to any disability money even though she could barely breathe. So of course she couldn't work. Me my mum and sister existed on her £36 a week Supplimentary Benefit as it was called. She was not given what she was entitled to for over 40 years. It still makes me angry thinking about it. But yes, both Miss Urdang and Stephanie Pope were well aware of our circumstances. I heard years later that Miss Urdang actually had students living with her as they couldn't afford the cost of accommodation. She really was an exceptional woman. I was very upset when I found out she had died.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Lisa O`Brien

[annaliesey]

Annaliesey how was the J Ellison SS?

She enjoyed it popcorn chicken and chips in the diner!

 

She really enjoyed the commercial more than anything I think and the whole thing had a really cheery atmosphere with clapping and whooping during select groups

 

Least favourite was drama haha

[Tulip]

Your mum was an exceptional woman Lisa x

[Lisa O`Brien]

Your mum was an exceptional woman Lisa x

Thank you Tulip. She had an incredibly difficult life. Poor health and two useless husbands !!

[Pups_mum]

Have you ever thought of writing a book Lisa? I love it when you share stories about your career and experiences. Your story is quite remarkable and you give such good common sense advice to us and our young dancers. I'd rather read about your career than that of quite a lot of famous dancers to be honest - you really should write it all down one day.

[joyofdance]

Have you ever thought of writing a book Lisa? I love it when you share stories about your career and experiences. Your story is quite remarkable and you give such good common sense advice to us and our young dancers. I'd rather read about your career than that of quite a lot of famous dancers to be honest - you really should write it all down one day.

I agree Pups Mum. It would make a great read and probably inspire a lot of young dancers. Re summer schools/classes. My DD had a wonderful day yesterday at drdance, workshops. She came home inspired (as well as hot and sweaty) and got straight on her ballet barre to practice her corrections. She also enjoyed the class with Nazene Danielle and is looking forward to the contemporary class today. She has gone off happy this morning for day two. 

[Anna C]

Could we keep actual feedback on summer schools in this thread please? http://www.balletcoforum.com/index.php?/topic/13058-summer-schools-2016-feedback/

 

Just makes it easier for people to find info in future. Thanks.

[straceydor]

Joy of Dance my dd also at Dr dance and loving it

[Tulip]

Yesterday we had to pay for my daughters medical all the way to Hertfordshire, £425 plus petrol and premier inn. Next day into London £123 for her visa. All of this is before more point shoes and clothing some of which will be reimbursed. If we weren't able to financially able to do this, our daughter would have had to turn down this wonderful contract. Even when our dancers graduate, parents still need to financially pay until they can financially pay for themselves. Wish we had a money tree, fortunately the pay is excellent on the Royal Caribbean, tax free, and free board and food. She will be able to save for when she comes home to audition again.

[MAK]

Tulip your daughter is going to have the time of her life ????

[Anna C]

Yesterday we had to pay for my daughters medical all the way to Hertfordshire, £425 plus petrol and premier inn. Next day into London £123 for her visa. All of this is before more point shoes and clothing some of which will be reimbursed. If we weren't able to financially able to do this, our daughter would have had to turn down this wonderful contract. Even when our dancers graduate, parents still need to financially pay until they can financially pay for themselves. Wish we had a money tree, fortunately the pay is excellent on the Royal Caribbean, tax free, and free board and food. She will be able to save for when she comes home to audition again.

Do they do pointe at Royal Caribbean Tulip? Or are the pointe shoes for class before your dd goes.

[Tulip]

Thank you Mak, I am so excited for her and best of all in one of the shows the dancers are en point.

[Tulip]

Anna the shoes are for the show but she intends to keep her training standards up, so will carry on doing point work inbetween rehursals.

[Anna C]

How fantastic! She's done brilliantly to get a contract with Royal Caribbean. Their shows are fabulous.

[Tulip]

Thanks Anna, she will now be able to call herself a professional dancer, a badge of honour after all the years of hard work and determination it takes to get there.

[joyofdance]

Yesterday we had to pay for my daughters medical all the way to Hertfordshire, £425 plus petrol and premier inn. Next day into London £123 for her visa. All of this is before more point shoes and clothing some of which will be reimbursed. If we weren't able to financially able to do this, our daughter would have had to turn down this wonderful contract. Even when our dancers graduate, parents still need to financially pay until they can financially pay for themselves. Wish we had a money tree, fortunately the pay is excellent on the Royal Caribbean, tax free, and free board and food. She will be able to save for when she comes home to audition again.

Ouch re cost Tulip but so worth it by the sound of things. I had a friend who's daughter danced on a cruise ship and she managed to save over £30.000 to put toward a house. 

[Tulip]

I can't see her earning enough to save that much, be nice if she fed he he. I am seeing soooo many of our classical dancers from the top vocational schools now auditioning for cruise ships, a Royal Carribene being the main one, all I can think is that they are so well looked after and pay is good. My daughter still loves her ballet, but she doesn't want to dance pure classical anymore, that decision came about 10 months ago. So she still wants ballet, but with a mix. For me she has always been allowed to change her mind, regardless of how much money has been spent. Her work ethic and determination is admirable, she is also very realistic with her head firmly screwed on. Like I said earlier her dream since she was very little was to be the white cat in cats

[MAK]

Is that Victoria? (The white cat in Cats). The favourite cat of DD1. I hope she achieves her dream and in the meantime Royal Caribbean is such a brilliant cruise line.

[Tulip]

It is Victoria and thank you MAK, she will learn so much including other styles of dance that she hasn't really done such as commercial. I haven't actually been on the Royal Carribean yet, done P&O and Celebrity.

[Tulip]

I can't see her earning enough to save that much, be nice if she did he he. I am seeing soooo many of our classical dancers from the top vocational schools now auditioning for cruise ships, a Royal Carribene being the main one, all I can think is that they are so well looked after and pay is good. My daughter still loves her ballet, but she doesn't want to dance pure classical anymore, that decision came about 10 months ago. So she still wants ballet, but with a mix. For me she has always been allowed to change her mind, regardless of how much money has been spent. Her work ethic and determination is admirable, she is also very realistic with her head firmly screwed on. Like I said earlier her dream since she was very little was to be the white cat in cats

[Tulip]

Oops how did I do that?

[OnlyDance]

Thanks for starting this joyofdance. It's a very interesting read and has given me much food for thought. Here, it's not even so much being 'priced out', as being timed out too. My dd started dancing at a time when she really probably shouldn't have started - I was on long-term sick leave and money was tight. But, she begged and begged and after a year I enquired with a local ballet teacher. Concerned about future finances I asked whether this was going to get expensive and was re-assured that it wouldn't - that she wouldn't need a uniform to start with and only shoes and a leotard. All fine! Roll forward 4 years (two exams, extra classes in tap and modern, dance school performances, summer school, and an EYB audition later) and expenditure is through the roof! Fortunately, I'm back working which allows more money for all things dance related but unfortunately less time to do them in etc. We can only do what we can do.

[joyofdance]

Thanks for starting this joyofdance. It's a very interesting read and has given me much food for thought. Here, it's not even so much being 'priced out', as being timed out too. My dd started dancing at a time when she really probably shouldn't have started - I was on long-term sick leave and money was tight. But, she begged and begged and after a year I enquired with a local ballet teacher. Concerned about future finances I asked whether this was going to get expensive and was re-assured that it wouldn't - that she wouldn't need a uniform to start with and only shoes and a leotard. All fine! Roll forward 4 years (two exams, extra classes in tap and modern, dance school performances, summer school, and an EYB audition later) and expenditure is through the roof! Fortunately, I'm back working which allows more money for all things dance related but unfortunately less time to do them in etc. We can only do what we can do.

So agree about the time thing as well. Quite a lot of classes start shortly after school finishes which is several hours before work finishes so its hard to make the time. It sometimes feels like you cant win. I have really enjoyed the contributions to this thread and have learnt lots from it. Plus I knew I wasnt alone in my thoughts but its always good to hear others views and experiences. Some of the advice has been invaluable. This is a great forum with some really nice people on it.

[Cara in NZ]

I've really enjoyed reading this thread. Like many of you, we started out when DD was five, one half-hour ballet class a week. Eight years later, she has seven ballet and two Pilates classes a week, and we have dropped anything 'optional' so this is the minimum (ie for her RAD studio and Year 8 in 'Scholars' JA scheme). Sitting RAD Intermediate next week. We have had to add in weekly physio this term as her knees need strengthening – it costs more than private lessons! And she is getting braces on her teeth, which we will pay in fortnightly instalments for 18 months (don't know if you can get this on the NHS but in NZ it's all private and costs £4,000, gulp). Her tutus are all 'pre-loved' (eBay), and I am selling all her outgrown leos and costumes. She says she doesn't want to do any summer schools (ours are in January) as this year has been so full-on, plus she is doing a big Australasian competition next Easter. My other two are older and have left home, thankfully, but my husband is a nurse and I work part-time from home so it's not easy. I don't think there is any funding available for dance training here, sadly.

[Guest]

So agree about the time thing as well. Quite a lot of classes start shortly after school finishes which is several hours before work finishes so its hard to make the time. It sometimes feels like you cant win. I have really enjoyed the contributions to this thread and have learnt lots from it. Plus I knew I wasnt alone in my thoughts but its always good to hear others views and experiences. Some of the advice has been invaluable. This is a great forum with some really nice people on it.

Oh well done you for making this point! I do understand why classes for younger dancers tend to be earlier in the evening, but it can give working parents logistical nightmares. To begin with it was just the odd class mid week, and the other parents were absolutely lovely about lift shares but as she got older it was more classes and then festivals, and rehearsals for festivals..and it always has to be mum doesn't it? I would get frantic emails from the dance school that they were running a last minute rehearsal that evening and in vain I would point out that I was stuck at Brussels airport sorry and would feel guilty about it and then frantically text everyone of my friends for help. It has honed my time management skills quite considerably

[joyofdance]

Oh well done you for making this point! I do understand why classes for younger dancers tend to be earlier in the evening, but it can give working parents logistical nightmares. To begin with it was just the odd class mid week, and the other parents were absolutely lovely about lift shares but as she got older it was more classes and then festivals, and rehearsals for festivals..and it always has to be mum doesn't it? I would get frantic emails from the dance school that they were running a last minute rehearsal that evening and in vain I would point out that I was stuck at Brussels airport sorry and would feel guilty about it and then frantically text everyone of my friends for help. It has honed my time management skills quite considerably

Not to mention using up all of your annual leave to attend festivals, rehearse for festivals, accom costs for festivals outside of your area, entry fees, private lessons for new dances that you didnt want your child to have in the first place etc. We dont do that anymore thank goodness. On the subject of festivals, I used to really resent having to pay high prices for costumes either second hand or new, that i didnt even get to choose. One time I and several other dance Mums paid over £50 per child for a group costume. The dance was performed twice and then the dance school scrapped the dance and we were left with a costume that we couldnt use. I loved watching my daughter dance in festivals but it started to take over our life and they were often horribly competative and created some really unpleasant behaviour from some of the children so we stopped doing them. It does make me chuckle, I often see facebook posts from various dance schools stating how supportive their children are with each other and with children from other dance schools etc. I was often at the festival that they were referring to and that was absolutely not the case. I saw more tears, tantrums, bullying and general horrible behaviour amongst the children and young people (and some teachers and parents) than I have ever seen in any other competative environment. I decided that as much as I love watching my daughter dance, I wasnt prepared to pay for her to be in such a horrible environment. My understanding is (correct me if I am wrong) that not doing festivals doesnt affect a good dancers chance of having a career in dance. 

[Cara in NZ]

joyofdance: Festivals/competitions are (I think) an added extra that no-one *needs* to do. For my (rather reserved) DD, in her 2 years of competing they have been good for giving her more opportunities to perform and learn about expression. But other DC don't need this and already understand what is required. I certainly don't think you need to do them for a possible dance career.

We have had pretty good experiences at competitions here in NZ. As my DD doesn't play sport, I tell her that being in group dances is the closest she gets to playing a team sport

Edited August 25, 2016 by Cara in NZ