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Frederick Ashton his works and his style.


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10 hours ago, Darlex said:

Thank you, Bruce. Always interesting to see different dancers' interpretations of these ballets and good to see such renowned dancers choosing to dance Ashton's work at a Gala. I was curious to see that the colour of her costume looks more reddy pink than the orange that I remember (could just be the lighting?), but also the cut looks more regimented than Sibley's.

 

On a different subject, are any balletcoers in Sarasota now? If so, would love to hear your views on Apparitions.

 

 

Darlex, I was in Sarasota & started a thread to discuss the recon. :)

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29 minutes ago, Jeannette said:

 

Darlex, I was in Sarasota & started a thread to discuss the recon. :)

Yes, I saw. It was just after I had posted! Thank you for your lovely report there. 

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On 29/07/2016 at 16:09, FLOSS said:

I am also going to suggest that you search out two recordings of White Monotones aka Monotones 2. Here you need to search for a recording made in the late 1970's with Derman, Silver and Deane. It isn't an ideal cast as Deane visibly sags and puts considerably less effort into what he is doing than he should but it does show you the ballet danced as a continuous flow of movement. The cast in the modern recording includes Nunez. Here the problem is that the entire piece is performed as if the dancers should freeze frame poses at regular intervals.

 

On 24/08/2016 at 18:53, Jam Dancer said:

Many thanks FLOSS for the compare and contrast  suggestions. I've finally managed to do them all and the differences are riveting.   I wonder why anyone would choose the more recent reading of monotones over the "continuous flow of movement" of the earlier recording? If I'm not mistaken the music is a bit slower  - could this be the reason?  Or would the dancers have asked for a slower tempo in order to perform it in the somewhat "posey" manner?   Quite interesting...

 

I would suggest   Monotones 2  is not the best example of the use of slower tempi and the resultant  effects. Having looked at both versions in some detail, I find that  the modern (2013) RB recording of  Monotones 2 (Nunez, Watson, Kish) is played to music no slower than the Derman Silver and Deane version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1iFPJdnFSo. In fact if anything it runs very slightly quicker. I also don’t find there to be any excessive  “freeze frame posing” in comparison to the early version, or differences in terms of the flow of movement. In the latter regard, I don’t really see the movement as  completely continuous in either case; indeed the  choreography appears designed, on occasions ,  for  slightly “pausing”  (rather than “posing”)  on the third beat of the fairly deliberate 3/4 time signature.  

There is also this  filmed  version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0ppAEMpaVQ  performed by the Joffrey Ballet and shown in 1989 as a tribute to Robert Joffrey following the latter’s death in 1988: here Parkinson, Edgerton and Mossbucker  do dance to music noticeable slower than both these  RB versions. Presumably  this was not anathema to Ashton, as  in the introductory  interview (only a few months before his own death) he explained how much he had trusted his late friend Joffrey with his work  and how  the latter took great pains to get it  correct.

Symphonic Variations is another case where the earlier version (1977 Park, Jenner, Penney, Wall, Coleman and Eagling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYQNqj3CCVQ runs at a very similar tempo to the recent RB recorded version (Nunez , Muntagirov, Naghdi, Hay, Choe and Dyer).

Other examples, though, do illustrate a more recent slowing of pace – such as in The Dream, and in Voices of Spring. Possible pros and cons of this are touched on in the following paragraph.

I found a good discussion about  the use of slower music relating to Princess Florine’s variation  in Sleeping  Beauty here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P8dYv2BZ4w where arguments are proffered against the slower versions, particularly the Russian ones, going back as far Kolpakova. The pros and cons might be summarised as faithful characterisation (requiring speed in this case) vs  beauty of form and luxurious ease of movement.  On this scale Sibley’s is clearly the fastest (even so, from the discussion, it is arguably still a fair bit slower than the original intent) and  I think she  does best  represent the quick fluttering of the Princess mimicking  the actions of the Bluebird.  Personally I do find the slowest Russian versions rather too laboured and lacking in portrayal of bird-like movements. Perhaps there is a balance to be struck because I do admire  “beauty of form and luxurious ease of movement” as well as good characterisation.  I believe  Ratmansky has been trying to replicate the original intent of Tchaikovsky / Petipa as far as possible;  his ABT version with Cassandra Trenary (the last in the list and starting with a little slip) is a fair bit slower than Sibley (though much faster than the Russian ones). This is more akin to  the  timing  of the recent RB version (Choe) that is included. In the similar Takada RB version http://picdeer.com/media/1921443087995266538_1526149934 I find she includes some particularly graceful and extended slower  movements  of arms, body and legs that are  (understandably) absent in Sibley’s version.  

Sorry that  the latter strayed  from Ashton himself,  but I think the example  is still relevant to some of the discussion on this thread.

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15 hours ago, Darlex said:

More than just Les Patineurs

 How right you are! Thank you, Darlex, for sixty minutes of undiluted bliss!

.

It's interesting to see just how much of Ashton has been/is being performed at Sarasota. All praise and honour to them - obviously with a link to Iain Webb and Margaret Barbieri. What is both salutory and chilling is that although (with the exception of Sinfonietta) all of these works are (at least nominally) in the repertory of the Royal Ballet how few of them are seen - and how rarely...

 

Thanks again, Darlex, for brightening up a damp afternoon.

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Iain Webb was at the last Ashton Masterclass and I was able to tell him how much I admired his determination to keep Ashon's works alive. 

 

The Masterclass was, as always, thoroughly entertaining as well as being most informative.

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Thanks, Darlex.  I really enjoyed that.

 

On 22/03/2019 at 15:24, Richard LH said:

 

I found a good discussion about  the use of slower music relating to Princess Florine’s variation  in Sleeping  Beauty here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P8dYv2BZ4w where arguments are proffered against the slower versions, particularly the Russian ones, going back as far Kolpakova. The pros and cons might be summarised as faithful characterisation (requiring speed in this case) vs  beauty of form and luxurious ease of movement.  On this scale Sibley’s is clearly the fastest (even so, from the discussion, it is arguably still a fair bit slower than the original intent) and  I think she  does best  represent the quick fluttering of the Princess mimicking  the actions of the Bluebird.  Personally I do find the slowest Russian versions rather too laboured and lacking in portrayal of bird-like movements. Perhaps there is a balance to be struck because I do admire  “beauty of form and luxurious ease of movement” as well as good characterisation.  I believe  Ratmansky has been trying to replicate the original intent of Tchaikovsky / Petipa as far as possible;  his ABT version with Cassandra Trenary (the last in the list and starting with a little slip) is a fair bit slower than Sibley (though much faster than the Russian ones). This is more akin to  the  timing  of the recent RB version (Choe) that is included. In the similar Takada RB version http://picdeer.com/media/1921443087995266538_1526149934 I find she includes some particularly graceful and extended slower  movements  of arms, body and legs that are  (understandably) absent in Sibley’s version.  

 


I am not sure I noticed this at the time, but I went back and looked at the Princess Florine solos.  Wow, I thought the one from Sibley was amazing.  She really does look as though she is going to take off and fly away.  And this is what I find disappointing about the others.  The Russians  make it look dull and turgid as far as I am concerned.  

 

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Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. As a relative newby and only watching ballet for the last 8 years I have much to discover. 

Here are some radio programmes about Ashton that I found interesting. 

 

Desert Island Disks:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p009mv6f

 

Meridian 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p03m0rpj

 

Spotlight 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p02sfydl

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6 hours ago, JohnS said:

Many thanks Janite.  Very much enjoyed Desert Island Discs - sets things up well for Enigma in the cinema.

Sadly can't make either cinema shows, but I managed to make it to ROH Monday last week and it was wonderful. 

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On 22/03/2019 at 15:24, Richard LH said:

 

 

I would suggest   Monotones 2  is not the best example of the use of slower tempi and the resultant  effects. Having looked at both versions in some detail, I find that  the modern (2013) RB recording of  Monotones 2 (Nunez, Watson, Kish) is played to music no slower than the Derman Silver and Deane version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1iFPJdnFSo. In fact if anything it runs very slightly quicker. I also don’t find there to be any excessive  “freeze frame posing” in comparison to the early version, or differences in terms of the flow of movement. In the latter regard, I don’t really see the movement as  completely continuous in either case; indeed the  choreography appears designed, on occasions ,  for  slightly “pausing”  (rather than “posing”)  on the third beat of the fairly deliberate 3/4 time signature.  

There is also this  filmed  version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0ppAEMpaVQ  performed by the Joffrey Ballet and shown in 1989 as a tribute to Robert Joffrey following the latter’s death in 1988: here Parkinson, Edgerton and Mossbucker  do dance to music noticeable slower than both these  RB versions. Presumably  this was not anathema to Ashton, as  in the introductory  interview (only a few months before his own death) he explained how much he had trusted his late friend Joffrey with his work  and how  the latter took great pains to get it  correct.

Symphonic Variations is another case where the earlier version (1977 Park, Jenner, Penney, Wall, Coleman and Eagling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYQNqj3CCVQ runs at a very similar tempo to the recent RB recorded version (Nunez , Muntagirov, Naghdi, Hay, Choe and Dyer).

Other examples, though, do illustrate a more recent slowing of pace – such as in The Dream, and in Voices of Spring. Possible pros and cons of this are touched on in the following paragraph.

I found a good discussion about  the use of slower music relating to Princess Florine’s variation  in Sleeping  Beauty here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P8dYv2BZ4w where arguments are proffered against the slower versions, particularly the Russian ones, going back as far Kolpakova. The pros and cons might be summarised as faithful characterisation (requiring speed in this case) vs  beauty of form and luxurious ease of movement.  On this scale Sibley’s is clearly the fastest (even so, from the discussion, it is arguably still a fair bit slower than the original intent) and  I think she  does best  represent the quick fluttering of the Princess mimicking  the actions of the Bluebird.  Personally I do find the slowest Russian versions rather too laboured and lacking in portrayal of bird-like movements. Perhaps there is a balance to be struck because I do admire  “beauty of form and luxurious ease of movement” as well as good characterisation.  I believe  Ratmansky has been trying to replicate the original intent of Tchaikovsky / Petipa as far as possible;  his ABT version with Cassandra Trenary (the last in the list and starting with a little slip) is a fair bit slower than Sibley (though much faster than the Russian ones). This is more akin to  the  timing  of the recent RB version (Choe) that is included. In the similar Takada RB version http://picdeer.com/media/1921443087995266538_1526149934 I find she includes some particularly graceful and extended slower  movements  of arms, body and legs that are  (understandably) absent in Sibley’s version.  

Sorry that  the latter strayed  from Ashton himself,  but I think the example  is still relevant to some of the discussion on this thread.

thank you for the links, very much enjoying watching them, love Monotones.

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I am conscious that it is several years since this topic was last under discussion and that there are forum members,habitual browsers and "lurkers" who have discovered this forum since this discussion was last current.

 

 Given the interest shown in recent discussions about Ashton's ballets concerning the relationship between his choreography and the Cechetti method it seems to me that the time has come to resurrect this thread which contains suggested recorded examples of the style for research and comparison. These recordings may assist those who have not seen a great deal of Ashton in performance or have not seen the dancers who are generally accepted as exemplars of the style to answer questions such as what is distinctive about Ashton dancers? How you  identify them and how you can know that a particular dancer will be effective in an Ashton role before they have danced it?

 

There is now a commercially available recording of Ashton's Enigma Variations which contains performances by Morera as Lady Elgar and Hayward as Dorabella. There is a recording of almost the entire original cast which has never been released commercially which is well worth watching if you can find it.

 

There are a number of recordings of Fille . As far as I am concerned the only ones worth watching if you want to understand the Ashton style in performance are the two recorded during the choreographer's lifetime.The first is a version of the ballet adapted for television by the choreographer which preserves  the performances of the original cast. The second is a recording which preserves the performances of Collier and Coleman who were the company's first cast at the time the recording was made.. Both casts dance Ashton idiomatically and may be regarded as  exemplars of his style in that in both cases the recorded casts were the best available at the time. Ashton used a modified form of emploi in his ballets to people the stage with contrasting character types, Needless to say these rules are followed in the earliest recordings  in which the casts were selected and coached by him.

 

Sadly  modern recordings  seem more concerned with celebrity and potential sales than the dancers' suitability for their roles and as such are really only useful for comparison. Emploi is not as rigorously enforced as it once was and it shows in the way in which characters register or fail to do so ir even worse lapse into caricature.

 

 

 

 

 

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Thank you FLOSS for reviving this thread. I wonder whether we could add a further element to it - Ashton's "aesthetic" - by which I mean his particular approach to ballet as an art form. You could say his style expresses his aesthetic.

 

Wisely, he refrained from explaining himself or his work to the public. At the end of his book, David Vaughan includes a short article Ashton wrote in 1959 in which he ventures a few thoughts on narrative and non-narrative ballets. Both had the capacity "to move and excite a poetic response in the audience", but non-narrative works such as Les Sylphides and Serenade can "leave an audience suspended in a trance-like response (that a story ballet can never achieve) because of their very directness and delicacy of poetic potency that needle-like reaches the heart". He did not believe that everything could be expressed in ballet but that a choreographer "should deal with that which is spiritual and eternal rather than that which is material and temporary".

 

It's a long time since i read "Secret Muses" but I do remember a number of times that Ashton spoke about his dreams, and even tried to give a dream image material form in his choreography. He had a religious sensibility without belonging to a particular system. His education seems to have been an endurance test for him but he emerged with a very open heart, and with the help of some good friends like Lambert and Fedorovitch became extremely cultured, and alive to many forms of imagination, in particular Greek myth. He was daring and experimental, as in Tiresias or Persephone. He was good at ritualised movement as in his opera work.

 

In what ways is his style "poetic"? I haven't really thought about this before. Poetry speaks in images and rhythms, compressing emotions, crystallising them into a memorable sight or sound, formal beauty. It is not literal but metaphorical. In a ballet, space becomes an element in its own right (as it is in some traditions, a fifth element) and therefore animated and alive. A dancer trained in the Cecchetti school brings a wealth of harmonies to such a space that their movement is best described as musical, even if there is no actual music playing. I sense this quality in Ashton right from the beginning with Capriol Suite. His poetry is precise, there is nothing fuzzy about it, and yet "needle-like" it reaches the heart. Hence the vital importance of sticking to his "text" as closely as possible.

 

 

 

 

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Guest oncnp

From today's Guardian

 

 

Following the screening there will be a Q&A opportunity with a panel featuring Vadim Muntagirov (Principal, The Royal Ballet), Francesca Hayward (Principal, The Royal Ballet), Lynn Wallis (former Artistic Director, RAD), Lynne Wake (dance film-maker, and director of Links in the Chain) and Christopher Nourse (Executive Director, Frederick Ashton Foundation).

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38 minutes ago, oncnp said:

From today's Guardian

 

 

Following the screening there will be a Q&A opportunity with a panel featuring Vadim Muntagirov (Principal, The Royal Ballet), Francesca Hayward (Principal, The Royal Ballet), Lynn Wallis (former Artistic Director, RAD), Lynne Wake (dance film-maker, and director of Links in the Chain) and Christopher Nourse (Executive Director, Frederick Ashton Foundation).


I think that the event itself is sold out - well it was when I looked last week.

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10 minutes ago, capybara said:


I think that the event itself is sold out - well it was when I looked last week.

 

15 remaining just now when I attempted a booking

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On 14/07/2016 at 15:57, FLOSS said:

Some time ago a number of people indicated that they wanted to know more about the choreographer and his works.It might be helpful if those who want to know more about him could give some idea of what they want to know. Are you looking for details about books to read, recordings of his ballets or general comments and insights into the essence of his style?

 

Whatever you are looking for you need to remember that he began making ballets in the 1920's and was still choreographing nearly sixty years later.The first great dancer for whom he choreographed was Alicia Markova; the dancer on whom he created most of his ballets may have been Fonteyn but some of his greatest ballets were created on the next generation of dancers  Nerina, Sibley and Seymour. While we see him as primarily a choreographer for women he created great roles and a great deal of challenging choreography for male dancers too.

 

Here is my initial contribution about Ashton's style it was given by Markova in a tribute programme broadcast at the time of his death. She was probably in a better position to identify the sources of his style than most because she was only six years younger than he was and had seen and experienced many of things which influenced him. She said that Ashton was Cecchetti below the waist and Duncan above the waist. 

 

 I know what Markova meant, I'm not sure it was totally serious,  but it was often Cecchetti above the waist too!  Especially in many of his early works. I'd link to the footage of him and Markova in Foyer de Danse but last time I did it 'vanished' from the forum, as did footage of Duncan!  Patineurs, Rendezvous?

 

Ashton was Cecchetti below the waist and Duncan above the waist. 

 

I also feel he used the skills gained from the daily execution of the Cecchetti eight port de bras to be 'free' in his choreography, and expect those he worked with to be able to do the same?

 

Sir Frederick Ashton wrote in a letter to Richard Glasstone; "If I had my way, I would always insist that all dancers should daily do the wonderful Cecchetti port de bras, especially beginners. It inculcates a wonderful feeling for line and correct positioning of the use of the head movement and epaulement which, if properly absorbed, will be of incalculable use through a dancer's career" (Kennedy, Notes for a Dancer, 2nd Edition 2006).

 

Incidentally, I wonder if I'm one of the very few people left who actually saw Markova 'perform' the first set of Cecchetti port de bras? Many many years after she retired as a dancer, she could demonstrate all four perfectly.

 

A very special 'hold your breath' moment, especially when she was joined by former Cecchetti students, I recall Laura Wilson (who danced with Diaghilev) and Margaret Marsh (went to Italy to study with Cecchetti) and others?

 

There's another 'Cecchetti' thread on here where I've put further quotes from Ashton re Cecchetti.

 

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On 26/08/2016 at 11:02, FLOSS said:

It is difficult to say when the sluggish, "wading through treacle" musical style became popular as there was always the occasional conductor willing to indulge the dancers. Emmanuel Young used to be my bugbear and I always tried to avoid any performance which he was conducting for that reason. But I think that the slow performance style and indulgence of dancers has been encouraged by the employment of Russian conductors for Russian classics in the last twenty years. 

 

The trend to a pose and freeze frame style has got a lot to do with the Vaganova method and what Morrison describes as its absolutist view of how steps should be performed. According to her this absolutist attitude towards classroom steps reduces the ability of dancers to adjust to, and accept, the choreographers's  modification of classroom steps in performance. I think it is one of the things that Donald MacLeary was speaking about when he talks of ballet as a theatrical art form.

 

Then there is the fact that everyone has access to the internet which means that dancers can see what others are doing and can incorporate that into their performance. If the coaches are amenable changes creep in without any one really grasping the true effect on a performance. How many dancers are really aware of what their performance looks like from out front or what  impact changing a couple of apparently insignificant steps will have on what the audience sees? Then there is the idea that what is taught now is better and the belief that because the young can do things that the older dancers could not have done that the new is better than the old rather than simply seeing it as different.. In the course of coaching Two Pigeons I believe that Christopher Carr said "We do ...position better now" which of  course meant that if he was encouraging the dancers to do a position in the modern standard classroom form fashion and ignoring the form of the step that Ashton expected to see.

 

If change is taking place in front of you and you are part of it you are unlikely to notice it. In much the same way as you don't notice how old your parents have become when you see them virtually every  day. Go away for a month or two and then you really notice it. 

I don’t believe that vaganova encourages freeze framing, it’s a very lyrical style and typically Russian dancers move with a huge amount  musicality. The freeze framing I have seen is more of a competition habit where dancers get so obsessed by showing control that they forget that the music is continuous and that they should keep moving. This also happens in competitions when  doing too many pirouettes that don’t fit the music. Vaganova like Ashton also pays a  lot of attention to the upper body - with flexible backs, expressive arms and heads. Our British ballet owes a lot to the Russian tradition as well as Ceccheti  and the French through Ballet Russes and Diaghilev. 

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Yes Rambert was a key player too. 
Many of the earlier dancers who had influence on the British ballet scene had direct links to renowned Russian teachers and Cecchetti training from the master himself!! 
It must have been such an exciting time to live through as a dancer when opportunities to dance were a little more ad hoc than they are now! 

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