Qualifications and their equivalents

[Jan McNulty]

I've copied this very useful post by PicturesInTheFirelight from another thread:

 

"With regards to the qualifications I wondered if it might be useful to give a run down of what all these different qualifications and levels mean because if most of you are like me back in the day we had O Levels or GCSES, A Levels and degrees and you knew what level they were at.  Today we have a myriad of different academic and vocational qualifications that sit on the QCF Framework and it all gets a bit confusing.

 

Qualifications have a level (which indicates the difficulty) and Credits (which indicates the size)  so if you do Grade 5 ballet its the same level of difficulty supposedly as GCSE dance but the GCSE has more content if you see what I mean.

 

GCSE Grades A-C, Grades 4-5 dance & music. Inter F dance & Btec First Diploma are all Level 2 qualifications

 

A Levels, Grades 6-8 & Intermediate & Btec National Diploma are all Level 3

 

HNC (BTUK's qualification) Advanced 1 & 2 ballet and the first year of a degree are Level 4

 

HND, Foundation degree Trinity Diploma in Classical Ballet,Solo Seal & the second year of a degree are Level 5

 

Trinity Diploma in Professional Dance & a full degree are Level 6

 

A masters degree is Level 7 & a doctorate is Level 8"

 

 

 

As an old fogey product of the O and A level days, it's very interesting.

[Pups_mum]

I wonder why, since the Trinity Diploma and degrees are both level 6 qualifications, student finance can be accessed for the latter and not the former? Wouldn't it make life simpler and level the playing field somewhat if they were both treated the same in terms of funding? I imagine there are financial reasons why that can't/won't happen but I'd love to know if there are any educational reasons, as this does seem to suggest that they are of equal "value". Does anyone know?

[Picturesinthefirelight]

A degree is a larger qualification than the trinity diploma hence the need to 'top it up' to a full degree

 

I guess the government have a stance that funding is available for degrees but they can't fund all other level 6 qualifications offered by private institutions (apart from dada funding) the same way as they can't fund Level 6 music diplomas for example.

[LinMM]

I imagine back in "our" day you would only have received funding for Level 5 and above.

 

So yes good question .....any Level 6 qualification should really have the same access to funding I think.

[LinMM]

Posting at the same time Pictures.

 

Okay yes I can understand that but maybe there should be SOME funding even if less amount than for a full degree etc?

[Anna C]

Well, there is, Lin - under the DaDa scheme instead of Student Loans.

[PomPom_Featherbottom]

I have recently been looking into this too, I'm struggling to keep up with the various certificates here and there. Especially as a few of my quals have been completed at work rather than at school. I found these links which were helpful, not necessarily for ballet but in general.

 

Educational levels  https://www.gov.uk/what-different-qualification-levels-mean/overview

And 

RAD Ballet exams as UCAS points https://www.rad.org.uk/achieve/exams/Results,%20qualifications%20and%20recognition/ucas-points

Potentially other syllabus' have points too. 

[Moomin]

Interesting! Doesn't IF come after grade 6 in most syllabi (not RAD)?

[sarahw]

In BBO G6 is easier and shorter than Inter Found

Edited July 7, 2016 by sarahw

[Yorkshire Pud]

As I understand it the Level 6 Trinity Diploma in Dance does not have enough academic content to warrant student finance. I can't remember where I heard that so please correct me if I'm wrong. I wish it did have funding!!! You can then do the 'academic bit' afterwards to top it up to degree level.

 

I teach on academic Level 3 and Level 4 courses and student loans are available for both of these qualifications so I guess the academic content might have something to do with the availability of funding rather than the 'level' .

Edited July 7, 2016 by Yorkshire Pud

[Anna C]

Oh, that is interesting Yorkshire Pud - might explain the ad I saw in Dancing Times, which was for a "funded" extended level 3 1 year qualification at the new BBO HQ.

[pointyfeet]

When you gratuate from voc school what qualifications do you need to get a job within the industry..

[LinMM]

Moomin I am confused about Interfoundation level as well!!

 

Originally I thought it came AFTER grade 6 in BBO and was the point work version of grade 7 because you can take the grade 7 without pointe work but if in the foundation course you had to do pointework so it's about grade 7ish level........Or so I thought!!

 

But then ages ago now I was reading some post which seem to suggest Interfoundation came after grade5 not sure if was RAD or some other school now.

[LinMM]

Sorry I mean intermediate Foundation!!........can't even get the name right.

 

Anna C yes of course DaDa funding.

 

What DO the letters actually stand for? And is this only for funding of drama and arts etc?

[Harwel]

When you gratuate from voc school what qualifications do you need to get a job within the industry..

To dance in a company - none.

[Anna C]

Sorry I mean intermediate Foundation!!........can't even get the name right.

Anna C yes of course DaDa funding.

What DO the letters actually stand for? And is this only for funding of drama and arts etc?

Dance and Drama Award. :-) And only certain schools get DaDa allocation from the Government.

 

Here's some more info: https://www.gov.uk/dance-drama-awards

[sarahw]

BBO Grade 6 has the same exercises as IF but IF has additional exercises. There is pointe in IF but there is none in G6.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

In the RAD & ISTD schools I know students tend to begin studying inter foundation around grades 4/5 level tho Go some of course never move onto vocational grades.

[taxi4ballet]

When you gratuate from voc school what qualifications do you need to get a job within the industry..

 

To dance in a company - none.

Harwel is right, but of course a professional dance career is a relatively short and insecure one, which is why it is useful to have a formal qualification under your belt. It will increase your chances of finding another job when your dancing days come to an end - or, as some decide - to change direction and pursue an alternative career.

 

edited for spelling

Edited July 7, 2016 by taxi4ballet

[Lisa O`Brien]

Harwel is right, but of course a professional dance career is a relatively short and insecure one, which is why it is useful to have a formal qualification under your belt. It will increase your chances of finding another job when your dancing days come to an end - or, as some decide - to change direction and pursue an alternative career.

 

edited for spelling

Agree with this. Whenever I attended an audition they didn't ask me how many O Levels I had. [Just as well seeing how I only have 3 !!!]  They wanted to see how I danced and if I looked right. I can't imagine that has changed.

[Lisa O`Brien]

Just thought, being an old fogey like Janet , I also have 6 CSE's. These were Certificates of Secondary Education. At our school most pupils took CSE's which were easier than O Levels. Then some others,like me,took both. The modern GCSE's are a combination of the two.

[LinMM]

Yes I think the higher grades of CSE exam or at least the top grade was considered an equivalent to an "O" level

[Lisa O`Brien]

Yes I think the higher grades of CSE exam or at least the top grade was considered an equivalent to an "O" level

Yes,CSE Grade 1 was equal to an O Level pass,whatever "pass" meant though I have no idea. I have 2 O Levels at Grade B and one at Grade E, the lowest grade. But it is still classed as having 3 O Levels. 

[Fiz]

Our school regarded anything less than a Grade C as a fail and we were not allowed to proceed with that subject at A level unless we got a high pass as a retake.

[taxi4ballet]

CSE at Grade 1 was the equivalent of a 'C' at O'level. I know this because I have CSE French grade 1 and that's what we were told at the time

[Pixiewoo]

CSE at Grade 1 was the equivalent of a 'C' at O'level. I know this because I have CSE French grade 1 and that's what we were told at the time

 

same here!

[Peanut68]

I have 2 geography ''O Levels' - a real coup I feel....decent B at O level aged 16 then basically awardees another by in my opinion fainting the A level!!! I think back in the day A levels were marked in pass grades A, B, C, (then not so valuable but still a pass) D & E followed by being judged as bring of O Level standard then Fail & lastly unclassified!!! Remember a few history essays being marked the latter (due to being caught out shamelessly inventing people from the past & attributing quotes to them :-) Well, I was at ballet school to dance not do academics I thought!! Having failed to get places at Uni as a mature student when in my 20's, I did go on to regret my flippancy!! Ah the ringing of the parental "I told you so" s still grates!!!!

[2dancersmum]

The reason that you cannot get student finance for a level 6 diploma but can for a degree is not really related to the qualification but to the institute that provides it and awards it. The colleges are private institutions whereas universities have some public funding - ie we all pay something towards them through our taxes. And it is something to do with the legalities of private versus not. It was further explained to me that there is a shortfall for any degree course between what the student pays and the actual cost of providing the course and that is effectively paid by government funding. I don't know whether it is actually the financial equivalent but the government also gives the private colleges this 'shortfall' in the form of DADAs and this is one of the reasons they argue against going to do a degree course with a student loan afterwards, because vocational students have already had their allocated pot of public money - that shortfall (here DADA)

 

I cannot remember where I found the information as I googled intensively before DD auditioned, obviously quite a few years ago now.

 

 

 

The Trinity level 6 diploma or BA Honours degree difference does come down to academics. When they award levels they do take into account the level of difficulty and hours of study needed to achieve a level. Diplomas are about 25% theory/academic, 75% practical and for a dance degree it is more like 40-60 (though there are probably exceptions in the form of the conservatoire schools like Central - I don't know). A level 6 Trinity diploma meets the entry requirements for many masters degrees - for contemporary dance and other dance/performing arts masters programes. This is in much the same way as universities will look at level 3 qualifications like btec and not just traditional A levels. If they wish to go onto to a masters in a different subject though or do something like a PGCE for teaching, a diploma student does need to do a conversion or top up course to do a few more academic modules in order to meet entry requirements.

[Interested Parent]

The reason that you cannot get student finance for a level 6 diploma but can for a degree is not really related to the qualification but to the institute that provides it and awards it. The colleges are private institutions whereas universities have some public funding - ie we all pay something towards them through our taxes. And it is something to do with the legalities of private versus not. It was further explained to me that there is a shortfall for any degree course between what the student pays and the actual cost of providing the course and that is effectively paid by government funding. I don't know whether it is actually the financial equivalent but the government also gives the private colleges this 'shortfall' in the form of DADAs and this is one of the reasons they argue against going to do a degree course with a student loan afterwards, because vocational students have already had their allocated pot of public money - that shortfall (here DADA)

 

That explains a lot 2dmum because I have also read some statement on the gov website stating that you can't get student funding after you have completed a DaDa.

 

So I would be interested to know if you complete a HND but privately and without any funding, you can still apply for a full student loan for another course whether it be dance-related or not. Any ideas?

[2dancersmum]

To be honest Interested Parent I don't know. Funding also relates to the qualification and if it is classed as further or higher education. Level 3 is further education, levels 5&6 are higher but I don't know which level 4 is classed at. Student loan guidelines for eligibility say they are available for the first higher education qualification only, regardless of whether that qualification has been self funded. I think you can get student loans to top up the HND to a full degree as I have seen several such courses offered but whether you could get a full student loan for a new 3 year degree course is a different matter. Regulations suggest not but I think the cracks in the system are so wide and with so many people not understanding the system, it might well be possible to fall through the cracks and get a student loan regardless. I say this because I do know of people who have self funded the Trinity diploma and then gone onto university - apparently with full student loans, ("no problem, it was very straightforward") but I cannot of course know what they declared on application forms or what they actually got. The whole system is a minefield!

[Anna C]

It is very confusing. From what I remember from a chat last year with the student finance helpline, I thought you could get a year's funding from Student Loans Co to top up a Level 6 diploma to a degree - BUT only in the same subject.

 

The Level 5/HND apparently depended on how long you had studied it (e.g. if you stop after a term it doesn't get counted), and why you stop studying. For example if there are extenuating circumstances - the chap gave injury or the private institution going bust as examples on a dance course - then as long as you can provide documentation to explain the circumstances, if you were not able to take the exam, that period of study does not count and you start your application from scratch as if you had not studied a higher or further qualification.

 

If you have studied and been awarded an HND after 2 years, you can apply for 2 more years' student finance as loans are for courses totalling 3 years + 1 "gift" year. Unfortunately I can't remember if the 2 years' funding has to be in the same subject. I THINK the chap said it's immaterial whether your FE/HE qualification is funded or not, it's the fact that you have studied and been awarded the qualification that determines further finance.

[Interested Parent]

Thank you Anna and 2dmum. That's very helpful. I had worked out that you could probably get a couple of years depending on what you had already received. It does seem unfair that if the government didn't subsidise the first HE qual, you should be penalised. However I also know directly of one girl who achieved the full Trinity Diploma under DaDa and then chose not to dance and went to University studying English instead for full 3/4 years. So it does seem wildly variable.

[taxi4ballet]

I believe that Tring offers DaDa funding, and some of their students go on to university afterwards, but whether or not that is with a student loan, I don't know.