taxi4ballet Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 It might also mean that the dancers knew they had a contract coming to an end, and have decided to move on and have found another position elsewhere. We can't speculate on whether they have been given the push, it isn't fair on the dancers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veryskint Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Hi Veryskint (I know the feeling!) Congratulations to your DC for getting on the course, you must be very proud Hope you don't mind my asking, but were the majority of the auditionees from the top schools or were there any wild cards there, and was the audition particularly gruelling! I know you've got to be in it to win it, but if the auditions are dominated by the high achievers, then it might be too daunting. I have heard that NB are keen on potential, but I suppose at this stage in training, they expect all round talent that just needs that extra boost. Any insight would be really appreciated! BB x PS 11 gosh that's not many places ... My DC auditioned over 2 years ago so things may have changed since. The auditionees participated in a morning class made up of the current graduate year. They were told a week or so later if they had been successful. In that particular cohort the graduates had graduated from Central, Elmhurst or from an overseas school. At that time the purpose of the programme was to supplement training where it was required ie the graduate was not ready to audition for companies due to injury or any other reason. I did not get the impression then that competition to gain a place was too bad but perhaps now due to the difficulty of gaining employment the competition might be tougher. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 There do seem to be far more apprentice and post-grad trainee places now, and I'm beginning to wonder just how much more money (supplied by parents) is needed before these new graduates can actually get a job that will pay the bills 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Thank you taxi - you are quite right, it is neither fair nor constructive to speculate upon dancers' reasons for leaving any company. And thank you, veryskint, for getting the thread back on topic. :-) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon Ballette Posted July 7, 2016 Author Share Posted July 7, 2016 Hi VS, thank you very much for the extra info, I will pass it on to the young person in question! Any further recollections/advice will be greatfully received. x 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Taxi, many parents of university graduates are wondering the same thing and I expect that I'll be wondering the same thing in a few years time. Apart from graduates of hard to get into vocational degree courses (eg Medicine, Vet Science) many, many graduates struggle to find reasonably paid, meaningful work commensurate with their education. Personally, I feel that higher education today is an expensive scam (and I say this as someone whose entire family - including my parents born in 1929 and 1930 respectively - went to university) which has just raised the entrance requirements for quite mundane jobs which were done by school leavers (possibly even 16 year olds) in the past. Anyway, I digress......... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double trouble Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Well done to your DD Tulip , my daughter is at MT sch on dance course she often has classes with teachers that have worked on cruise ships they all say it's the best thing they ever did ! Getting paid to do what u love and seeing the world ! My DD really wants to go on cruise ships as well but only just finished first yr ! Best of luck to your DD hope she is going to be going somewhere nice ???? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLou Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Including Sebastien Loe and Isaac Lee-Baker (who left a few months ago), and Martha Leebolt and Tobias Batley (Premier dancers taking a ‘leave of absence’), plus Jessica Morgan - that’s at least 5 ‘seasoned dancers’ going/gone I think. Also, Pippa Moore (Premier dancer) seems to be dancing a lot less these days. Happy to be corrected (always!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Am I right in thinking that quite a lot of companies employ dancers on short-term or seasonal contracts anyway, and that these are dependent on the repertoire the company will be performing that season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Am I right in thinking that quite a lot of companies employ dancers on short-term or seasonal contracts anyway, and that these are dependent on the repertoire the company will be performing that season? I think so taxi, with the exception of Royal. I was going to say it's possibly more common in the smaller companies, but you have exceptions to that rule, for example ENB's wonderful Swan Corps for Swan Lake in the round is made up of company dancers and freelancers/dancers "between" companies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwel Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 One apprentice i know of, left a few months ago because the company just wasn't for them. This is always a 2 way street. Ultimately, the AD will pick the dancers that appeal on the day and this could be for many different reasons. Sometimes the company and person will be a good fit, and sometimes not - just like schools. I am glad that Northern ballet are expanding, this is good news, it's a great company. They have to maintain their standards. Last year they took on a lot of fresh graduates, amazing opportunity for them. Some will have realised this wasn't what they thought company life would be - they have to work EXTREMELY hard, training is a walk in the park in comparison! I would really like it if all senior schools would publish where their graduates get jobs, also courses like the graduate scheme at Northern (I have a feeling more of these courses will develop, as I think the training requirement nowadays seems to be more of a 4 year upper school course than 3 years - especially for those that did not enter vocational training before 16). This is very useful information for prospective students and gives a true reflection of how tough the job market is - it may deter some, and that frankly is a good thing - as I really think too many schools are training too many dancers! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabitha Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 So, what's your point, tabitha? That there's a conspiracy against new graduates of the UK vocational schools? I don't want to be too personal about this but perhaps the apprentices / corps dancers who are leaving proved to be unsatisfactory in some respect and the new graduates who auditioned were not deemed to be suitable / were not as good as the dancers who were recruited from other companies. My points have been made but in summary they are: 1. it's disappointing that out of 10 joiners, only 2 are from school / graduate programmes 2. Only 1 out of 12 from Northern's own graduate programme has been taken into the company 3. Unlike most of our other vocational training institutions, the Northern graduate programme doesn't appear to publish its graduate destinations. 4. Approximately 25% of the company has left this year (12 leavers out of around 40) with half of them only having been there a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 My points have been made but in summary they are: 1. it's disappointing that out of 10 joiners, only 2 are from school / graduate programmes 2. Only 1 out of 12 from Northern's own graduate programme has been taken into the company 3. Unlike most of our other vocational training institutions, the Northern graduate programme doesn't appear to publish its graduate destinations. 4. Approximately 25% of the company has left this year (12 leavers out of around 40) with half of them only having been there a year. And I think a number of people have given reasoned responses to your points. There is no point in speculating why dancers have left the company because we just don't know. We also don't know why the company has taken on experienced dancers rather than graduates. One member whose DD was on the course has already very kindly shared the news that her daughter has changed direction. Why don't you contact the company and ask them? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLou Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) My points have been made but in summary they are: 1. it's disappointing that out of 10 joiners, only 2 are from school / graduate programmes 2. Only 1 out of 12 from Northern's own graduate programme has been taken into the company 3. Unlike most of our other vocational training institutions, the Northern graduate programme doesn't appear to publish its graduate destinations. 4. Approximately 25% of the company has left this year (12 leavers out of around 40) with half of them only having been there a year. In danger of repeating myself, but you seem to be assuming that NB graduates wanted to join the company but were overlooked. Do you know how many actually applied to join the company? Maybe they had other plans. Also, any number of perfectly ordinary reasons could account for 12 leavers. Speculating (again, sorry!) - but maybe NB felt that the proportion of apprentices they supported last season made it difficult to deliver their demanding programme. Hence a move to more experienced recruits this year. Edited July 8, 2016 by BlueLou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dancersmum Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 People keep making the point that getting the first contract with a company is tough but I have to say that when my DD was looking at auditioning , it was simply - 'a temporary contract' with a company rather than joining the company itself in many cases. Positions were often advertised as 'required from date a to date b', sometimes offering the possibility of further contracts afterwards. One of DDs friends would describe herself as 'freelance'. She teaches in between contracts and sometimes during, depending on if she is touring or where she is based but since graduating she has done 'seasons' or shorter contracts both at home and abroad with a number of different companies. She is probably employed as a ballet dancer for around 9 months in any 12 month period - six months here, a few weeks teaching, three months there, a few weeks teaching etc. Not all companies offer the route of joining the lower ranks and working your way up. Well done also to Tulips DD. Cruise ship positions are not as easy to come by as some might think. Competition is fierce. My DD had just signed contracts for a cruise position when a ballet director requested in person she come to his audition and asked that she reconsider. But he was offering six months and she had been offered 15 months and at better pay. She has not regretted her decision. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Having been on several cruises, my goodness those dancers work hard. But what a fantastic job; being paid to dance, travelling, entertaining happy audiences. If you can cope with the homesickness, occasional seasickness, and lack of wifi, I think it's a fantastic opportunity. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 The daughter of an ex-colleague got onto cruise ships around 10 years ago; I don't know if she is still doing it. She was having a fabulous time and one of the intangible benefits was that her parents were able to go on fabulous cruises with her at very cheap rates!! It wouldn't surprise me if all DPs didn't encourage their children to get on the cruises for that very point! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 The daughter of an ex-colleague got onto cruise ships around 10 years ago; I don't know if she is still doing it. She was having a fabulous time and one of the intangible benefits was that her parents were able to go on fabulous cruises with her at very cheap rates!! It wouldn't surprise me if all DPs didn't encourage their children to get on the cruises for that very point! *makes scheming face* ;-) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 According to a statistics database, around 5.5 million passengers per year go on a cruise in Europe, and for USA the figure is around 10 million. In the same time period around 15,000 people attended at least one ballet or dance performance per year in USA (don't have figures for Europe). Everyone we know who has succeeded in making a career out of dance performance has done it via cruise contracts and the figures probably explain why that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 I worked on a cruise ship for five months in between jobs (not as part of the entertainment team). It was a brilliant experience. Hard work, long hours and in my case, not lucrative, but great fun and a wonderful way to see the world. I made friends with dancers and singers (as well as other crew members) from across the world and I have already encouraged my young DDs to keep dancing (and in their cases singing and acting when time allows) to give them at least a shot at doing a cruise contract later in life. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Ps sorry that was nothing to do with NB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Yes you are speculating BLou, some dancers already had contracts for Phantom at the beginning of course, others achieved contracts for other companies, some were good enough but didn't fit the company, and perhaps some weren't ready. All were good enough to be selected for their graduate programme just 12 selected out of ????? Candidates auditioning this year were from RB, Elmhurst, Central, Hammond, Ballet West and others. A lot of the company members left because of different contracts and opportunities. If you get on the graduate programme, you can breath and relax because you are in for a excellent year of training whilst auditioning, you have the same chance as any other person when they audition for the company. Being a graduate means they get to see all of your good bits and the bad. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Sorry BLou you were talking about apprentices and not graduates, my apologise x 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLou Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 In danger of repeating myself, but you seem to be assuming that NB graduates wanted to join the company but were overlooked. Do you know how many actually applied to join the company? Maybe they had other plans. some dancers already had contracts for Phantom at the beginning of course, others achieved contracts for other companies It sounds like many have done really well. NB really should boast about their graduate destinations, then maybe Tabitha would be less disappointed in them 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 I think we've probably done the speculation to death - we don't want to frighten Bonbon Ballette away when she was just asking for info about people's experiences of the scheme. Could we keep the thread on topic please? Thank you. :-) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon Ballette Posted July 9, 2016 Author Share Posted July 9, 2016 Morning All! First of all thank you so much to both Tulip and VerySkint who have both given really helpful first-hand experience details, very much appreciated! Ha ha, Anna C - I was feeling that it had all got a bit controversial The young lady in question DF is still considering her options after school, contracts are a hurdle she hasn't got to worry about just yet. She just wants to get on a really good top-up course that is also good fun (she missed a huge chunk of training due to injury and has had her confidence knocked). After all, as pointed out earlier, contracts are so difficult to secure that the experience has got to be enjoyable because there is absolutely no guarantee of a job in the industry and so happy memories have to be created during training - IMO anyway Tulip or VerySkint, any more advice would be most welcome, no snippet too trivial or even just a recollection of a happy moment on the course BB xxx 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 My advice is, norther ballet grad prog, is fantastic if you can achieve a place, to keep training to a high standard or improve it whilst still auditioning. Other options are, live in London and attend lots of open classes without corrections. I wish there was something for dancers Inbetween contracts, that would keep technique strong. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastel Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Bonbon Ballette, the graduate program at Northern looks excellent. There is also one run by Elmhurst. I agree with what Tulip has said above about the limited options for dancers who don't have work. There is also the option of having a coach who works with your DD a few times a week. It can be lean on hours, but we have found it a positive experience and if you have the right teacher, there can be quite a lot of opportunities to take class with other dancers who are in between jobs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 I don't know if it's still true but someone told me once that Hammond graduates can return to take class in between contracts/whilst auditioning 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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