Brexit and the future for dancers

[Goldenlily17]

Following the discussion I initiated about the future for young dancers seeking work in European companies, I am starting a new post to invite proposals as to how we can lobby for their futures. I feel that we must help the 18-24 generation of dancers to ensure they don't have to give up on their dreams. Perhaps we should all raise a petition to John Whittingdale, the Secretary of State at the Department of Culture Media and Sport? And also lobby for dancers to be taken off the UK Labour Shortage List? Please repond and let me know your thoughts. All of you with DSs and DDs should be concerned for their future careers.

[alison]

For that matter, what about the future careers of existing dancers, those UK nationals employed in the EU, and the EU nationals employed in British companies?  This is all uncharted waters, of course, and I've no idea what's going to happen in the long term, but imagine there may need to be a lot of switching around, or possibly dancers committing to the company/country they're in and applying for citizenship.  What the net result in terms of jobs and vacancies will be I don't really know.

[Boys_can_dance]

I think the job chances of dancers are not going to be England's main concern, tbh. What about Ireland, with no Good Friday Peace Agreement anymore? No United Kindom, with Scotland and maybe Ireland leaving to stay in EU? The mother of all recessions this is going to trigger?

I would be concerned about ALL young people in the UK, not just dancers.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Dd tells me she fears for her future. Unlike many on this forum her dream is not to dance with the Royal ballet but instead to perform in some of the large scale musicals in places like Germany. You need an EU passport to audition.

 

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[Tulip]

It is heartbreaking to read all the messages on my daughters Facebook page. All of them are dancers and they are so upset about their futures and their art. These friends are not all from the UK either, a very sad day ????

[tabitha]

I'm not sure it will be as bad as people may be thinking. There are large numbers of non-EU dancers currently employed all over Europe and not being part of the EU has not prevented them from being employed successfully by EU companies e.g. look at the current members of the Royal Ballet and ENB, many of them are from outside the EU.

[Harwel]

A heartbreaking turn of events for the artistic community! It is heartbreaking for so many and only time will tell the true cost.

[Boys_can_dance]

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/how-old-people-have-screwed-over-the-younger-generationin-three-charts--W1AA_n4nEb

Have a look

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Are they artists of international standing though?

[Lemongirl]

I'm not sure it will be as bad as people may be thinking

 

 

I agree.  52% people voted to leave yet I have only read comments from Remain online.  Panicking doesn't help anyone.

[Colman]

Honestly, it'll likely be months before we know what's going to start happening. In the short run I'd be more worried about the consequences for local funding of arts and course - if the current turmoil doesn't calm down we/you could be in for an emergency budget quite quickly.

 

Or it could all blow over: not convinced the people likely to take power actually want to leave. Even if they do, what the negotiations will look like isn't clear, how long it will take isn't clear, consequences are entirely unclear. 

[Harwel]

The thing is pictures, while many DC on here may wish to dance with RB or another UK company, their chances are very very slim. Even the highly successful ones will be looking to dance in Europe when it actually comes right down to it. Very few of our fantastic dancers end up in Employment world wide as it is, their chances just dropped exponentially. The OP said about dancers aged 18 to 24, I'm afraid that should be dropped right down to anyone training at the moment! A black day!

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Yes. Dd is only 14 so has another 5 years of training left. But it now looks like her chances have dramatically decreased.

[aileen]

If you have Irish ancestry investigate the possibility of obtaining an Irish passport for your child. It's complicated but one Irish grandparent seems to be enough. Your child should then be able to work freely in the EU.

 

If the economy goes into the doldrums many, many people will lose out and it's fanciful to think that there wouldn't be savage cuts to arts funding and to arts training.

[Goldenlily17]

I do realise, of course, that jobs for dancers is just about as unimportant as anything could be for decision-makers. But for us, on this site, it is of deep importance. That is why we use the forum. The British will be doubly disadvantaged if we cannot reform the UK Labour Shortage issue. The reason so many non-EU dancers are here is because they by-pass the usual red tape. I don't know how they get to work in Europe?

Can anyone throw light on this?

[dramascientist]

I have no words???? Not only for my DD's future but also DS, I cannot understand how people can ever think its a good idea? Maybe when the pound is worthless on the Costa del Sol people might regret their decision?

 

Sorry to be controversialWondering what the World is coming to?

DRSC

[Ian Macmillan]

This article has appeared on The Stage's website, but I doubt that it adds anything at all of substance at this early stage:

 

https://www.thestage.co.uk/news/2016/brexit-what-does-it-mean-for-the-arts/?platform=hootsuite

[Karen]

 

If you have Irish ancestry investigate the possibility of obtaining an Irish passport for your child. It's complicated but one Irish grandparent seems to be enough. Your child should then be able to work freely in the EU

 

 

 

Do you have any tips on completing this process or knowledge of sources of help, please Aileen?

[Jan McNulty]

Google is a wonderful tool!

 

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html

[balletsoccermom]

Forgive me for intruding on this thread, however I am wondering why it would be so difficult to find a job outside of the UK with Brexit.  My dd is from the U.S. and we know many dancers who have gone on to find employment in the EU.  Is it easier for one with a U.S. passport?  Are there more restrictions for someone from the UK to travel about?  I know that it is extremely difficult to get a visa to work in the England, but does it work the other way too?  Sorry for my naivety.  I would love to be enlightened on this subject  matter.  Thanks!

[Jan McNulty]

Graham Watts (Chairman of the Dance Section of the Critics Circle)  has kindly given the BalletCo Forum permission to publish his thoughts on Dance, posted on Facebook earlier today.  Thanks so much to Graham for letting us post his notes:

 

 

"Dance 

The worry that EU nationals working in dance companies and earning less than £35K per year being asked to leave the UK is unfounded. 

The PM and all other politicians including the Leave campaign leaders have issues clear statements today saying that all non-UK EU nationals working in the UK will be able to remain indefinitely - TBH many industries would collapse overnight if their non-UK workforce had to leave 

I have no worries about this at all and I hope the scaremongering stops 

If there is a recession then austerity budgets are likely to worsen and I fear that the will mean less publicly subsidy for dance companies and venues and we will all have to continue being more creative about raising income 

There is a continued danger that public subsidy of dance education will suffer - nothing new there 

Dance will continue to thrive"

[2dancersmum]

The visa issue does work both ways. It is hard for a US dancer to get a visa to work in England and for a British dancer to work in the US. .  Currently, as part of the EU our dancers do not need visas to work in Europe. We hold EU passports and as has already been stated a lo of companies state that an applicant must be an EU passport holder and have the right to work within the EU.    The US is a huge geographical area and there are a lot of dance companies that US dancers can apply to, without jumping through all the hoops of a work permits and visas. The UK is tiny in comparison with few dance companies and hence our visa -free zone is Europe.  Noone really knows what is going to happen post Brexit but if work restrictions are imposed, then yes there will be consequences.

[Frost]

As a Norwegian national and not an EU member I have absolutely no problems on travelling nor working in the EU, and I do not need a visa to work and live in the UK now so I am not very worried about my daughter that are Norwegian and her job opportunities I expect will be depending on her abilities, not her nationality. At the moment the UK not being a part of Schengen makes travels to and from UK more difficult for us than for any other EU country, so I am not sure if this will change much after Brexit. However, the instability this will lead to for the UK itself with Scotland and perhaps NI wanting to leave the UK to remain in the EU I suspect will be of greater worry.

[alison]

What *is* certain, I think, is that the country is somewhat in shock at the moment at the result, and a cooling-off period would probably be useful for everybody while we absorb the implications of the decision. There will be a lot of decisions and negotiations to be made over the next couple of years, and we will need to assess and find out what action, if any, needs to be taken.

[taxi4ballet]

What *is* certain, I think, is that the country is somewhat in shock at the moment at the result, and a cooling-off period would probably be useful for everybody while we absorb the implications of the decision. There will be a lot of decisions and negotiations to be made over the next couple of years, and we will need to assess and find out what action, if any, needs to be taken.

I agree. Like most other people, I was gobsmacked at the news this morning. Perhaps once things have settled down a bit over the next few weeks and months, we will be able to get more of an idea about how everyone will be affected.

[Guest]

I work (at the moment) for a US owned multinational who already e-mailed us this week expressing a hope that the UK would remain in the EU. We are none of us under any illusion that our jobs will not transfer to Belgium, France or Germany and with all haste. This is not just spite on the part of the company. They need to have a legal entity in the EU and that's just not going to be us anymore. I expect that there are quite a few other parents out there now seriously worried about their childrens training and education prospects and how they are going to pay for it.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I've just heard of the first person who has lost their job that along with 400 others

[aileen]

Frost, you and your family can freely live and work here because Norway has signed up to the free movement of people and so has the UK. Once the UK leaves the EU you won't be able to do this unless the UK signs up to the free movement of people (again), which is the very thing that most Brexiteers don't want!

 

The economy is the big thing. If ballet companies lose all or much of their funding they may not be around to employ your daughter anyway. Arts funding will be one of the first things to be cut if the UK goes into a recession again.

[Jan McNulty]

Frost, you and your family can freely live and work here because Norway has signed up to the free movement of people and so has the UK. Once the UK leaves the EU you won't be able to do this unless the UK signs up to the free movement of people (again), which is the very thing that most Brexiteers don't want!

 

The economy is the big thing. If ballet companies lose all or much of their funding they may not be around to employ your daughter anyway. Arts funding will be one of the first things to be cut if the UK goes into a recession again.

 

 

 

I wish there was an angry button.  You are right Aileen (IMHO) - a cultural desert awaits.

[Goldenlily17]

I cannot believe that our Culture Minister John Whittingdale voted to leave Europe. That strikes me as an act of utter betrayal. I am also infuriated by the way so many of these articles seem only to be concerned about companies losing their valuable EU or international talents and how depleted they would be without them.

What about our own talent? Whoever said that they can just work outside the EU doesn't understand anything, about protectionism in the USA or elsewhere, Finally, why should our DDs and DSs have to exile themselves on the other side of the world when they could have worked in Germany or France?

[Jan McNulty]

We've now got a period where the government must work out what happens next.  We could end up signing up to various agreements that will give us rights similar to the Swiss or Norwegians.

[Ian Macmillan]

Another Link, this time from Dance magazine, although it looks like a collection of excerpts from other articles of recent weeks on the topic:

 

http://dancemagazine.com/views/35001/

[rowan]

I'm heartbroken and gobsmacked,  deeply concerned about the future for my own dancing child, with only a couple of years to go before entering the job market. The need to be in the EU for young British dancers seemed crucial. As previous posters have said, virtually no dancers who are good enough to be employed are going to be aiming for the RB or ENB and were instead looking towards Europe as their best chance of employment. Both DH and I work in a niche industry for a foreign-owned company in the UK and are likely to lose our jobs. We, unfortunately, have no Irish ancestry, but I know quite a few people who can and are investigating that option.