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when to apply for vocational school?


MLN

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Hi all,

Dd would love a career in ballet and our present plan is to try for vocational school at 16. DD's local ballet teacher has mentioned that waiting until 16 could possibly reduce the chances of getting into a top school and also of having a strong ballet career after training. She was unsure of how many 16 year olds get offers who are not already at vocational school. I was under the naive impression that everyone had an equal shot at 16 (slight lack of experience here!) Is this generally thought to be the case and is there any way of finding out how many get places at 16 who do not already attend vocational schools? Any opinions greatly appreciated!

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It really depends on what is available to you locally.

 

Dd had always planned to apply at 16 or 18 for MT but went at 11 because she was struggling to find enough classes locally at the right level. Also the demands of her academic school (homework load etc) would have meant something had to give.

 

Others who have local schools with multiple suitable classes & perhaps access to private coaching to supplement etc would not have those issues & many children do successfully apply at age 16.

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Welcome to the forum, MLN. :-)

 

With regards to RBS, Elmhurst, Tring Park, and Hammond - i.e. schools that have a lower school, there may be fewer year 12 places available because existing year 11s have been offered year 12 places. However, being at a school does not guarantee automatic transition to year 12.

 

Then there are plenty of schools which only offer training from Year 12 upwards, so providing a student has had enough good quality training hitherto, they have an equally good chance of being accepted.

 

It's not an exact science, of course! But I know plenty of current Yr 12s in good upper schools who were not previously in full time training.

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My daughter started vocational training at 16, of the 6 UK girls in her year group 4 were non vocational before US. (this is a london based school) 1 of these has chosen to leave and the remainder have progressed to the final year of training. 16 is definitely not too late if you have good local schools and associate schemes.

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Hi MLN and welcome. I agree with the advice given above. Being a non dancing Mum I have found this forum invaluable and I would encourage you to spend time over the next few days and weeks reading some of the threads on here. It can be a bit overwhelming at first there is so much information. .... Maybe try the upper and lower school audition threads?

 

How old is your dd? Is she an associate anywhere? If not applying for an Associate scheme would be a good first step. Which area, roughly, do you live.

 

Finally,as I'm sure you know,classical jobs are difficult to get even for those in vocational training. So each child needs a Plan B at least. But personally I think a dance education brings valuable generic skills whatever you end up doing!

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I have mentioned before that DS was told at 14 that he needed to go to vocational school pretty much immediately if he was going to achieve his full potential. The teacher who assessed him said in his opinion if DS was going to wait until later he would still have the opportunity of a career in ballet but it wouldn't be at the 'highest level'. I know at 18 DS feels he isn't quite yet as technically polished as those who have been in vocational school since 11 (although the gap now is pretty narrow) and certainly feels he wouldn't be where he is now if he had waited until 16. Having seen the hours he has put in and what he has achieved I think I agree with him- couldn't have done it locally...

But I think your question is very hard to answer as it depends so much on the individual dancer, how they want to train, what they are aiming for, the needs (and capacity both financially and in time) of the rest of their family, what local classes are available and so on. So its a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' question...hence I offer up our experience as just one of many....

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Depressing though it is, I think you need to be mindful of the fact that the chances of success - if you define it as a career of any length in classical companies - is very small,even for children who might seem to "have it all". There are so many variables involved, and injury can change everything literally overnight at any point.

So, in my opinion at least, it is very important that DCs are happy and gaining other things of value along the way.(Well as happy as possible anyway - what teenager is happy all the time?!)

Some children will thrive at vocational school from 11, whereas for others it will be a disaster. I have a work colleague who was at WL for a few years before being assessed out. Her current job has absolutely nothing to do with dance but she looks back on those years with great fondness and says that if she had her time over again, even knowing the outcome, she would still want to go. But she also remembers other children who were completely miserable most of the time, despite the fact that they were achieving at a high level.

I guess it's impossible to know for sure how any child will react, but as parents we probably have some idea what's going to suit our children. There is no one right path, and definitely no guarantees, so I think the right time to apply is when it seems right for YOUR child.

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The children at vocational schools from aged 11 are hopefully getting first class training six days a week. This can also be achieved without going to voc school. It's all about finding good quality teaching. I also think that the big ballet competitions (not festivals) can offer a young person a great platform to showcase their abilities to a wider audience.

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I am actually a firm believer in all round training with ballet as the main dance technique.  So few girls are going to make it into a classical ballet company and there are so many other options around for dancers who are versatile, that personally I see nothing wrong in waiting until 16 to specialise.  Anyway, going to the junior school doesn't automatically guarantee you a place in the senior school, and not all children are suited to boarding school life.  What is important is to enable your daughter to get a decent enough training, so that she will be at a high enough standard to be accepted for vocational school at 16.

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Hi all,

Thank you so much for your replies.We are very lucky to have super local teaching and DD is on a good associate scheme so I think it sounds like we are giving her the best shot at getting into vocational school at 16 other than sending her now.I guess the best thing will probably be to keep thinks open in our minds and make changes as and when it becomes really necessary.I definitely feel more informed already so thank you all.

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  • 2 months later...

Hi all, 

 

There are plenty of ballet dancers out there that only entered vocational schools at 16 and have gone on to make a successful career. 

 

From experience and research attending a lower school does not guarantee being able to "graduate" on up to the 6th form. At 11 no matter how intensive the training and how well a child does at exams Mother Nature can cast a wicked blow. Two acquaintances of mine had this happen to them, barely reaching 5ft 1at 15/16. There was a BBC Wales also a series based at Elmhurst as they followed 4 children at different ages. From yr7 upwards. Unfortunately for one young lad at 16 he hadn't grown. Beautiful talented ballet dancer. The Director stated to camera "******* is a stunning dancer but we would be doing him an injustice to keep him here for 6th form with the hope that he grows. The best thing we can do, which is incredibly hard as he is so talented is to let him go and allow him to audition at other schools (i.e MT)." His honesty was quite refreshing. talent and previous training unfortunately (if you know what I mean) is not always a guarantee. Mother Nature has the final word. :blink:  

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There was a BBC Wales also a series based at Elmhurst as they followed 4 children at different ages. From yr7 upwards. Unfortunately for one young lad at 16 he hadn't grown. Beautiful talented ballet dancer. The Director stated to camera "******* is a stunning dancer but we would be doing him an injustice to keep him here for 6th form with the hope that he grows. The best thing we can do, which is incredibly hard as he is so talented is to let him go and allow him to audition at other schools (i.e MT)." His honesty was quite refreshing. talent and previous training unfortunately (if you know what I mean) is not always a guarantee. Mother Nature has the final word. :blink:

I think the director in this case was maybe saying what appeared to the the right thing and dressed it up as being the right decision for the student. Schools who receive funding make their decisions based on what the outcomes will be for the school - their funding is based on measures of success I.e. How many students are employed on graduation. If they think a student won't get a contract they won't offer an upper school place.

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I understand your point of view but as a fee paying parent I would also like to know the probability of my child's success. Allowing them to continue would be unfair for all those concerned. Being open and honest even if its not what you really want to hear is still the best way forward. 

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I agree balletbean - I think the parental interest (as fee payers and custodians of their child's future) and dance schools (who have to justify their state funding and maintain the reputation of the school) concur. Although we as parents may not always agree at the time (and our dc also.)

 

I do think there have been issues in the past with LS assessing out too early (sometimes within 6 months of a child starting in Y7). But I know this has been remedied now. Age 16 is so crucial they really have to try and be honest with the student- no-one is done any favours by pretending they have a chance if they don't.

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I agree balletbean - I think the parental interest (as fee payers and custodians of their child's future) and dance schools (who have to justify their state funding and maintain the reputation of the school) concur. Although we as parents may not always agree at the time (and our dc also.)

 

I do think there have been issues in the past with LS assessing out too early (sometimes within 6 months of a child starting in Y7). But I know this has been remedied now. Age 16 is so crucial they really have to try and be honest with the student- no-one is done any favours by pretending they have a chance if they don't.

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